Vegetarianism - would you try it?

Jimoslimos

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Mike Tyson is a vegan, as is Carl Lewis.

Mike Tyson? What was Evander Holyfield's ear made of? Cauliflower? Anyway I don't think he was a vegan at the peak of his boxing career.

As for Carl Lewis, he didn't need protein from meat to bulk-up. I think his success might be largely attributed to something a little stronger than vegetables

Da Shins Kelly

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Mike Tyson? What was Evander Holyfield's ear made of? Cauliflower? Anyway I don't think he was a vegan at the peak of his boxing career.

As for Carl Lewis, he didn't need protein from meat to bulk-up. I think his success might be largely attributed to something a little stronger than vegetables

Well, that's just pure speculation on your part.

The point is, not all vegetarians and vegans are "weeds" as was said before.

dodderangler

I tried bein a vegetarian
Then I got off the jax and had a chicken fillet burger

TheBoss!

Jimoslimos wrote: »

A bodybuilding vid is probably one of the poorest example to use in trying to demonstrate of how veganism can be healthy.

Weedy he ain't.

kowloon

A good Indian is the best vegetarian cuisine known to mankind. You can't just take a meat and two veg style dinner and lose the meat.

I say fair play to anyone who can live without meat and make it work for them, although I'm not one of them. I make concessions to animal welfare, I won't buy cheap chicken and all my eggs are laid by chickens who are treated extremely well.

I'm not sure I can say much against vegetarians, they're probably, all other things being equal, better people than I am. But I have a blood lust that even some of my carnivorous friends find too much. I will sooner turn cannibal than cut out meat. Please forgive me.

Jimoslimos

TheBoss! wrote: »

Weedy he ain't.

I think you might be confusing looking strong with being strong.

jugger0

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Well, that's just pure speculation on your part.

The point is, not all vegetarians and vegans are "weeds" as was said before.

Carl lewis was on the juice and mike tyson became one only very recently, the overwhelming majority of vegans are weak frail looking lads, each to their own though.

TheBoss!

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I think you might be confusing looking strong with being strong.

What makes you think he just "looks strong" as opposed to actually also being strong?

Okay, how about a vegan UFC fight??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoTGMxgn1tg

GastroBoy

Vegetarianism..well seeing as its Steve-O...erm!

jugger0

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I think you might be confusing looking strong with being strong.

Are we looking at the same video? he isn't very strong and certainly doesn't look it, looks like a soccer player.

Jimoslimos

TheBoss! wrote: »

What makes you think he just "looks strong" as opposed to actually also being strong?

Because in the majority of athletic pursuits I could easily outperform a bodybuilder.

Bodybuilders train primarily for muscle mass, not necessarily strength. It's why you don't see Olympic weightlifters looking like bodybuilders.

TheBoss! wrote: »

Okay, how about a vegan UFC fight??

It's not impossible to be fit and strong as a vegan, just incredibly difficult. You're cutting most decent sources of protein from your diet and tend to need to eat a lot more calories to get the same intake. Fine if you've got the time (and money) to waste on expensive supplements and exotic flavour of the month beans

TheBoss!

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Because in the majority of athletic pursuits I could easily outperform a bodybuilder.

But "weedy" was the accusation and from watching that video, a lot of athleticism was demonstrated - did you even watch it?

Bodybuilders train primarily for muscle mass, not necessarily strength. It's why you don't see Olympic weightlifters looking like bodybuilders.

Yes, but if an athlete had been posted - then the user would most likely had said they look "weedy".

It's not impossible to be fit and strong as a vegan, just incredibly difficult. You're cutting most decent sources of protein from your diet and tend to need to eat a lot more calories to get the same intake. Fine if you've got the time (and money) to waste on expensive supplements and exotic flavour of the month beans

Nonsense. You don't need supplements to get more than adequate protein from a vegetarian diet - please don't tell me you believe in the "complete protein" nonsense do you?

All amino acids can be found in abundantly in Fruits and Vegetables.

dttq

Aoifey! wrote: »

Been veggie for 10 or 11 years now and I love it

You people are monsters!

http://www.vegetariansareevil.com/hitler.html

Pride Fighter

Jimoslimos wrote: »

It's not impossible to be fit and strong as a vegan, just incredibly difficult. You're cutting most decent sources of protein from your diet and tend to need to eat a lot more calories to get the same intake. Fine if you've got the time (and money) to waste on expensive supplements and exotic flavour of the month beans

You're talking out of your hole here and have no clue what you're talking about. In fact animal protein is easier for our bodies to digest than animal protein. So by being a vegetarian you're eating more good protein to compensate for the bad protein in meat.

Also a can of chick peas is 59 cent which contains a good amount of protein and you can buy chick peas, lentils and pulses that are high in protein in bulk and it ends up being so much cheaper than meat.

Also by being a vegetarian you do not eat more calories to get the same intake, you eat less. By filling on veg your brain thinks you're fuller quicker, and cause veg is less calorie dense than meat, you intake a lot less protein.

I dont like to ram stuff down peoples throats, but when you're saying stuff which is grossly inaccurate I have to correct you on it.

Jimoslimos

TheBoss! wrote: »

But "weedy" was the accusation and from watching that video, a lot of athleticism was demonstrated - did you even watch it?

Yes, and I don't count a few reps as an example of athleticism. He looked a bit awkward running and seemed to exhaust himself quickly

TheBoss! wrote: »

Nonsense. You don't need supplements to get more than adequate protein from a vegetarian diet - please don't tell me you believe in the "complete protein" nonsense do you?

What are you talking about? I said you need to eat more vegetables to get the equivalent level of protein as found in meat. Otherwise you take supplements. Funnily enough in that video you posted the bodybuilder was mixing himself something which looked suspiciously like a supplement drink. 29 seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Zk6NUAieNsY#t=29s

In general I don't subscribe to the belief that any one diet is inherently healthier than another. Humans are pretty adaptable creatures, some cultures survive on high meat/fat (Eskimos) diets others on primarily vegetarian fare. What I do object to is the myth that vegetarianism or veganism is better for your health and better for the environment.

Jimoslimos

Pride Fighter wrote: »

You're talking out of your hole here and have no clue what you're talking about. In fact animal protein is easier for our bodies to digest than animal protein. So by being a vegetarian you're eating more good protein to compensate for the bad protein in meat.

Also a can of chick peas is 59 cent which contains a good amount of protein and you can buy chick peas, lentils and pulses that are high in protein in bulk and it ends up being so much cheaper than meat.

Also by being a vegetarian you do not eat more calories to get the same intake, you eat less. By filling on veg your brain thinks you're fuller quicker, and cause veg is less calorie dense than meat, you intake a lot less protein.

I dont like to ram stuff down peoples throats, but when you're saying stuff which is grossly inaccurate I have to correct you on it.

Seriously, accusing me of talking through my hole and then...

"Good" and "bad" proteins??? Sorry what? As for easier to digest - plants are much much harder to digest in general, why do you think cows have so many stomachs?

You must have misread me...I said vegetarians need to eat more calories to get the same intake of protein. See figures below and dispute if you can.

Tinned Tuna (drained) Per 100g
Energy 311kJ
Protein 18.1g

Chick Peas (drained) Per 100g
Energy: 536kJ
Protein: 7.4g

Hmm..so more calories in equivalent weight chick peas and less protein...

poeticseraphim

Been one for years..I am vegan now. I love it. People will tell you anything (Irish farms are ok etc they are never going to be ok for veggies we don't agree with it) it is simply the sad case that most people don't care and are morally comfortable with eating meat in this 1st world society regardless of whether they can do without.

I suppose we are all comfortable or uncomfortable with different things.

dodderangler

What's yas ****in on bout protein for?
I don't eat meat for the protein
I eat it cuz its so much more delicious to eat than some form of vegetable
simple as
I hate vegetarians can't stand them but they can't stand me either cuz I hunt
Mutual relationship kinda thing

Cork24

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Mike Tyson is a vegan, as is Carl Lewis.

Tyson was not a vegan while he boxed so whats the point ?

Dravokivich

I don't get the way this usually descends into an Us Vs Them. I can't stand the way some vegetarians have an agenda against meat either.

Eat what you eat, because you like eating it.

I like eating meat, no amount of slaughter videos are going to put me off it.

Shenshen

kowloon wrote: »

A good Indian is the best vegetarian cuisine known to mankind. You can't just take a meat and two veg style dinner and lose the meat.

I say fair play to anyone who can live without meat and make it work for them, although I'm not one of them. I make concessions to animal welfare, I won't buy cheap chicken and all my eggs are laid by chickens who are treated extremely well.

I'm not sure I can say much against vegetarians, they're probably, all other things being equal, better people than I am. But I have a blood lust that even some of my carnivorous friends find too much. I will sooner turn cannibal than cut out meat. Please forgive me.

I don't think being vegetarian is about being "a better person"... although there are a good few holier-than-thou people about who would have you believe that.
It's a personal choice, at the end of the day. I think the moral question should not be so much centred on eating animals - all animals die, same as humans. But in the wild, they are likely to die young, and not in a nice way. So keeping that in mind, their death - if fast and painless - is not necessarily "wrong".

What is wrong is how some of them are being kept. So people who decide to keep eating meat, but are careful about where it comes from are just as good in my book as people who decide not to eat meat.

gobnaitolunacy

Animals are far too tasty.

Besides turning veggie is not going to mean 1 less cow/pig/chicken/whatever gets slaughtered is it?
Whatever makes ya feel good I suppose.

smellslikeshoes

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't get the way this usually descends into an Us Vs Them. I can't stand the way some vegetarians have an agenda against meat either.

I can guarantee that for every one vegetarian you meet that has any interest in converting/preaching etc. you will meet 100 meat eaters who find the need to put our choice down just to reassure themselves on theirs.
Having to deal with shit like this

humbert wrote: »

there's a strong statistical correlation between being a vegetarian and being a dry self-righteous whingy bastard.

every single day gets some people's backs up.

Don't pick up on me wrong mind, I'm not saying meat eaters in general come up with stuff like that. It really just comes down to the percentages of meat eaters in the general population. If even 10% of meat eaters like to get in on a bit of veggie bashing that's still probably a greater number than there is vegetarians total.

I know myself I just want to be left well enough alone and have no interest if you eat meat or not, when the inevitable condescending question about being vegetarian comes up I usually just try to deflect it with something like "I don't love animals i just hate plants" to try and nip it in the bud :pac:

crazy cabbage

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

"I don't love animals i just hate plants" to try and nip it in the bud :pac:

but in that case you are better off eating animals becouse animals can eat way more plants than you and therefore keep the plant population down even more..

i joke.. i joke

i will leave now

Duggy747

I love meat but the vegetarians do have some lovely dinnners, too.

I don't care what people's diet are but I don't like when people use videos like these highlight a general tar-with-one-brush "Farming is bad, look what all animals go through...." tone which lumps in Irish farms with those mega US & Asian farms, isn't accurate.

Dravokivich

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I can guarantee that for every one vegetarian you meet that has any interest in converting/preaching etc. you will meet 100 meat eaters who find the need to put our choice down just to reassure themselves on theirs.
Having to deal with shit like this

That doesn't mean the meat eater is anti veg. Just that veg is part of their diet as much as meat. With it being seen as the default diet here, it can be odd to see someone eat differently.

What I meant by some vegetarians having an anti meat agenda, is that they go all out to condemn those who eat meat. You'll see the attitude you referred to as a reaction to that.

I know a few vegetarians and for them it's a matter of preference. They just don't like meat.

charlietheminxx

I was a pescatarian for a while as a teenager, but became anaemic because I didn't eat properly and basically lived off junk :P

I always though I would give it another go as I got older but really, I just wouldn't now. As much as I love veggie cuisine and am an avid animal lover, I enjoy eating meat. I don't eat a lot, but I wouldn't like to stop permanently. I am picky about it though - I only eat Irish produce and free range eggs. I try to be ethical where possible. I still eat quorn burgers a lot because they're lower in fat!

I respect people who adhere to being veggie and I think in general Irish restaurants are seriously lazy in catering for them - there are some fantastic dishes that don't involve meat.

seamus

I've been loving this thread title. You'd swear it was like injecting heroin or becoming a Thai hooker.

Though I suppose in some parts of this country, heroin addicts and prostitutes would be held in a better light than vegetarians.

In terms of changing your diet, going veggie is about as dramatic as deciding that you won't eat white bread any more. Removing the meat is easy.

humbert

seamus wrote: »

In terms of changing your diet, going veggie is about as dramatic as deciding that you won't eat white bread any more. Removing the meat is easy.

That's a very subjective statement. I love meat and love many meals that depend on it. I'd also have to reassess my nutrition if I cut out such a major component.

If I simply cut it out as I would with white bread, without compensating, I'd say my health would be affected.

Shenshen

humbert wrote: »

That's a very subjective statement. I love meat and love many meals that depend on it. I'd also have to reassess my nutrition if I cut out such a major component.

If I simply cut it out as I would with white bread, without compensating, I'd say my health would be affected.

I suspect you would replace the white bread with something as well, if you were to cut it out.
Wholemeal bread, for example. Or rice crackers.
Simply cutting bread out of your diet without replacing it anything at all would probably affect you long-term just as deciding to cut out meat.

jimmycrackcorm

I once spent some time managing a team in India. In the hotel the vegetarian menu choices were better than the meat dishes by far so I ended up basically eating those.

Papillon!

Im Veggie for about 4 years. Never going back. Best decision I ever made:)

bbam

Just for interest sake why do most people give up meat?
It it an animal rights issue, do you not miss meat, I can't imagine not having a nice medium rib eye steak, nothing comes close in taste or sadisfaxtion from a meal.
Do you ever get the craving for red meat?

smash

1: I don't see the point in being a vegetarian.
2: Meat tastes too good to stop eating it.

humbert

Shenshen wrote: »

I suspect you would replace the white bread with something as well, if you were to cut it out.
Wholemeal bread, for example. Or rice crackers.
Simply cutting bread out of your diet without replacing it anything at all would probably affect you long-term just as deciding to cut out meat.

I'm not aware of any nutritional requirement that white bread fills which isn't more than fulfilled by foods like rice, pasta, potatoes or even breakfast cereals which are part of most people's diets. I don't think the same can be said for meat.

Shenshen

bbam wrote: »

Just for interest sake why do most people give up meat?
It it an animal rights issue, do you not miss meat, I can't imagine not having a nice medium rib eye steak, nothing comes close in taste or sadisfaxtion from a meal.
Do you ever get the craving for red meat?

I can't answer for most people. At work, there is one person who was raised vegetarian, she tried meat but never liked it so stayed vegetarian.
Two people are vegetarian because they don't like the taste or texture of meat.
One person is vegetarian for health reasons (I'm not going into if that's sensible or not, at the end of the day it's his choice).

Me, I'm vegetarian because there's no point for me to prepare meat at home, since my husband's vegetarian, and when eating out I've got no way of finding out where the meat came from and how the animals it came from were actually treated.

My husband is vegetarian because the thought of eating something that once was a live animal turns his stomach.
His brother and my sister in law are vegetarian for health, animal rights and environmental reasons (all in one).

Edit : No, I honestly don't miss meat. At all.
It was a little tricky at the beginning as you have to re-think much of your approach to cooking, but at this point I cannot imagine wanting to eat meat again.
What I do miss - sadly, is the choice you have when eating out. Usually, a menu will consist of 8+ meat dishes, and one dish containing either overboiled pasta, aubergine or goat's cheese, or any combination of these.
It has turned eating out from a treat into something best avoided, unfortunately, as my own cooking (and I say this without arrogance) is just so much better than what most places serve up as "vegetarian option".

_GOD_

darlett wrote: »

An interesting experiment though, surely? Going balls out and trying it. One of the nicest foods I ever had was BBQ shrimp. Only problem being, A- Ive never been able to repeat the marinade of my favourite BBQ shrimp, and B- are shrimp and fishfood vegetarian enough to be called vegetarian?

The trick is that veggie bbqs dont have to be healthy.
you can make really good veggie burgers with 2 tins of black beans mixed with breadcrumbs, black pepper, flour and cholula chipotle hot sauce. It takes about 2 minutes to make and is deadly. If you go to the effort of making guacamole its goes really well with it too. you can also throw some linda mc carthney sausages on and portabello mushrooms.

seamus

humbert wrote: »

I don't think the same can be said for meat.

It can. There is nothing which meat provides that is not more than fulfilled by alternative foods.

You don't even have to go mental with nut-roasted-quorn-breaded-tofu supplements. A mixed vegetable diet which includes eggs and dairy has all the nutrition required.

Part of the problem is dividing meals into individual servings, thinking about "meat & two veg" and that if you remove the meat you have to slot something else in there. You don't.

St.Spodo

Morally I can't think of any good reason not to be a vegetarian, yet I'm not a vegetarian. Through convenience, the taste and being in a long-standing habit of meat-eating, I've just never had enough motivation to commit to being a vegetarian. I probably never will. And I do admire others for making a lifestyle change on moral grounds.

Shenshen

humbert wrote: »

I'm not aware of any nutritional requirement that white bread fills which isn't more than fulfilled by foods like rice, pasta, potatoes or even breakfast cereals which are part of most people's diets. I don't think the same can be said for meat.

So you would replace the bread with an increased consumption of rice, pasta, potatoes, etc.
Most people replace the meat with increased consumption of eggs, dairy products and pulses, which in most cases already are an everyday part of their diet anyway.

Quite simple, really.

seamus

bbam wrote: »

Just for interest sake why do most people give up meat?

I don't think there is a "most" answer tbh. Every vegetarian has their own reasons and most will differ in one way or another as to their reasonsing.

Do you ever get the craving for red meat?

Jeebus no. Was never a big fan of red meat anyway, usually too acidic and chewtastic to enjoy.

Most of the meat dishes I liked were generally where the meat was heavily supplemented with other ingredients to enhance the flavour - sausages, black pudding, etc.

When I first considered eating veggie (at 17), I did have trouble letting go of chicken for a couple of months, but I think that was because I didn't really have a clue what to eat instead; I didn't really consume cheese or milk back then (didn't like it) and although I loved eggs they were just a breakfast food.

DB21

Pescetarian for nearly 2 years now, and I've never looked back. Lost a ton of weight, and I've become healthier overall.

TheBoss!

seamus wrote: »

Though I suppose in some parts of this country, heroin addicts and prostitutes would be held in a better light than vegetarians.

Not just Ireland, the world over seems to view vegetarianism is picky eating.

One thing that really bugs the fcuk of me is in movies, when there is some relationship at the start of a film and a woman is deciding between two guys, the one she leaves is always a vegan with allergies or something and in the end she will go for the other guy and they almost always make a point of showing him being care free with food choice and enjoying a steak or whatever.

humbert

Shenshen wrote: »

So you would replace the bread with an increased consumption of rice, pasta, potatoes, etc.
Most people replace the meat with increased consumption of eggs, dairy products and pulses, which in most cases already are an everyday part of their diet anyway.

Quite simple, really.

No, I didn't say I would increase the consumption of those things. I wouldn't have to. That's the point. I could just drop white bread. I'd say there's a better chance of my health improving as a result that deteriorating.

(All the fullstops make that paragraph look like a telegram)

seamus wrote: »

It can. There is nothing which meat provides that is not more than fulfilled by alternative foods.

You don't even have to go mental with nut-roasted-quorn-breaded-tofu supplements. A mixed vegetable diet which includes eggs and dairy has all the nutrition required.

Part of the problem is dividing meals into individual servings, thinking about "meat & two veg" and that if you remove the meat you have to slot something else in there. You don't.

Ah, I'm not suggesting that becoming a veggie is terribly difficult, I just don't agree that it's comparable to giving up white bread.

I agree with you on the stigma in Ireland about meal components. As soon as I started cooking for my self 'spuds' were no longer the bulk of the meal and all veg were treated equally. Much more enjoyable, varied and healthy meals.

_GOD_

TheBoss! wrote: »

Not just Ireland, the world over seems to view vegetarianism is picky eating.

One thing that really bugs the fcuk of me is in movies, when there is some relationship at the start of a film and a woman is deciding between two guys, the one she leaves is always a vegan with allergies or something and in the end she will go for the other guy and they almost always make a point of showing him being care free with food choice and enjoying a steak or whatever.

I have never seen that in a movie. Veggies can be badasses in films, like Downfall.

bbam

Thanks guys.
I would often choose a vegetarian option if out for a meal but just because I like to vary my intake.
We keep pigs, cattle and chickens so are sure of the source of our meat.

One thing I would say is that animal welfare is very high on Irish farms, yes they are reared with the killing in focus and i appreciate this is a problem for some, but they are treated well.

KamiKazeKitten

I dan't ever see me going veggie. If I was going to give up meat I'd probably go vegan, don't ask me why. Sort of an all or nothing approach I guess, if the ethics of killing animals bothered me I'm pretty sure animal products would too.

Not completely rational, but sure there ya go...

--Kaiser--

I've never been a vegetarian and I never will be. I know far too much about nutritional science and evolutionary biology to ever think that it's either good or natural. I also don't have the moral compass of a five year old

L.Jenkins

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I've never been a vegetarian and I never will be. I know far too much about nutritional science and evolutionary biology to ever think that it's either good or natural. I also don't have the moral compass of a five year old

You should try some of the food items available. Just as good, if not better than non-vegatarian options in some cases.

I was a vegatarian for over a year, when I had to start for a while, but I'm taking it up again soon.

--Kaiser--

Itzy wrote: »

You should try some of the food items available. Just as good, if not better than non-vegatarian options in some cases.

I was a vegatarian for over a year, when I had to start for a while, but I'm taking it up again soon.

You either didn't read or didn't understand any word of my post