2013 Art O'Neill Challenge

grahamor

Micilin Muc wrote: »

So far we have:

Grahamor
ThisRegard (still has to check with the wife!)
Micilín Muc

Any more takers?

Someone interested from IMRA site too. Will confirm on Thursday

grahamor

ThisRegard wrote: »

Is it as simple as importing it via the app and viewing the route ? I've been on at least 2 compass/map reading workshops, in theory I should manage but I've never had to use it in the field yet.

Yes, it's quite simple. I downloaded the file from Garmin into Dropbox and then added Viewranger as an app in dropbox (given the option to do this in app). You can then import it and follow the route. Points you in the right direction etc.

figs

This may be the wrong forum, but... don't suppose there's anyone interested in (fast) hiking Kippure or Black Hill to Glenmalure on Saturday? Would join the run, but recovering from calf problems and don't want to risk aggrevating injury.

Enduro

grahamor wrote: »

I've imported Eoin Keith's Garmin data into the Viewranger app and it's plotted the route to follow. It might help while i am learning how to use a map and compass

Don't follow that route religously! It's only one possible track from a multitude of options. My routing last year varied from that plot. It is useful as a back-up on the GPS if you get lost though. Definitely use the map and compass, and more importantly Keep your eyes open and your mind alert as you cover the ground, keeping an eye out for different ways you could run etc.

nerraw1111

Enduro wrote: »

Don't follow that route religously!

Calling BS on that. You don't want people to find the secret portaloo you've stashed up there.

fobbzy

Used Viewranger a good bit and have to say spot on........ I would recommend getting a power monkey or something similar to back up the power on a smart phone......... oh and only use it to confirm where you have already navigated to with map and compass and good old pacing..... 65 walking per 100 meters and 45 running..... ishhhh

grizzlynorris

Hi Lads,

Would be all over that..
Extra car if needed..
Starting from Kippure Lodge??

grizzlynorris

Micilin Muc wrote: »

So far we have:

Grahamor
ThisRegard (still has to check with the wife!)
Micilín Muc

Any more takers?

Hi Lads,

Would be all over that..
Extra car if needed..
Starting from Kippure Lodge??

grahamor

We are meeting at Black Hill car park at 930am tomorrow. Send me a PM if you want to be included in the group email.

http://goo.gl/maps/iTahj

aigster

fobbzy wrote: »

Used Viewranger a good bit and have to say spot on........ I would recommend getting a power monkey or something similar to back up the power on a smart phone......... oh and only use it to confirm where you have already navigated to with map and compass and good old pacing..... 65 walking per 100 meters and 45 running..... ishhhh

Thanks for the tip....

McWotever

grahamor wrote: »

We are meeting at Black Hill car park at 930am tomorrow. Send me a PM if you want to be included in the group email.

http://goo.gl/maps/iTahj

How did you's get on? What kinda route did yous take?

Micilin Muc

McWotever wrote: »

How did you's get on? What kinda route did yous take?

Here's a link to the route.

It was my first proper open-mountain run, and for someone who is used to only following trails on the hills, I was surprised at how boggy and wet the ground was. I was wearing trail shoes, so the grip was good but my feet were soaking wet very early in the run. I don't think it matters how waterproof your footwear is, your feet will get wet.

Navigation-wise, the important thing seems to be to be able to find the way from the summit of Black Hill to Ballinagee River and its tributaries in Glenbride. Once the river is found, it's simply a matter of following the river all the way down the glen until Ballinagee Wood and then to head east up by the edge of the wood until you find the entrance to the fire road.

ThisRegard

As Micilin Muc said, it was very very wet out there, more than I expected. I think we were literally walking in water from the top of Black Hill to the forrest, and when we were going slow the water was very cold. I'd be hoping for frozen ground on the night I think. There's a few hidden deep little gullies with tributaries heading towards the river which I wouldn't want to fall into.

Yesterday morning was freezing, the car was saying 3 degrees after we finished, with plenty of low cloud and rain which I think was good in terms of having to use the compass and map rather than visual references to navigate. You can see from the route we were pretty much spot on, we went a little too far east coming off Black Hil before heading for the gap but again, once you find the river just follow it. On the way back it cleared a little and we headed towards the gap straight from the forest cutting a small bit out.

It's well worth doing in those conditions as you get a good idea of not only your route but how your gear situation is. I'll probably be changing the socks I wear and probably wear warmer leggings, I was grand from the waist up.

aigster

ThisRegard wrote: »

As Micilin Muc said, it was very very wet out there, more than I expected. I think we were literally walking in water from the top of Black Hill to the forrest, and when we were going slow the water was very cold. I'd be hoping for frozen ground on the night I think. There's a few hidden deep little gullies with tributaries heading towards the river which I wouldn't want to fall into.

Yesterday morning was freezing, the car was saying 3 degrees after we finished, with plenty of low cloud and rain which I think was good in terms of having to use the compass and map rather than visual references to navigate. You can see from the route we were pretty much spot on, we went a little too far east coming off Black Hil before heading for the gap but again, once you find the river just follow it. On the way back it cleared a little and we headed towards the gap straight from the forest cutting a small bit out.

It's well worth doing in those conditions as you get a good idea of not only your route but how your gear situation is. I'll probably be changing the socks I wear and probably wear warmer leggings, I was grand from the waist up.

Well done lads,(lasses?)
Illustrates the level of skills required ,I'm very relieved I've opted for hybrid....and even that looks like a good test.Any reccomendation s for footwear /I've only run road marathons/ultra

McWotever

aigster wrote: »

Well done lads,(lasses?)
Illustrates the level of skills required ,I'm very relieved I've opted for hybrid....and even that looks like a good test.Any reccomendation s for footwear /I've only run road marathons/ultra

Thanks for the report lads. I took a trip up to Black Hill the other day with a friend, but we got side tracked looking for the Hamden Bomber crash site, so we didn't make it to the river.

I second the above question, infact I'd like to expand it as to what you wore from head to toe!

Micilin Muc

I wore:

• trail shoes & 1000 Mile socks (although a spare pair of those socks will be useless as they're very hard to put on when your feet are freezing cold and wet).
• running tights
• 2 baselayers and a large-hooded Gore-tex jacket.
• ski gloves, neck gaiter and this excellent cap.

My feet were very wet and cold, but I don't know if any other kind of footwear would be better. Maybe gaiters?

ThisRegard

Pretty similar to the above

• Merino Wool hat and a buff around my neck which I could pull up over my face when needed
• Merino Wool base layer
• An Underarmour coldgear running jacket
• Water proof jacket over that
• Running tights, not the warmest ones though
• Innov8 Roclites

And when I got out of the car the raining so threw on those cheap Regatta water proof trousers that only cost about €20.

Not sure how the trousers held out, it's hard to know when you're wearing water proof gear if the dampness is from water getting through or sweat but I think it was sweat for the most part.

Enduro

General gear advice:

Waterproof shoes are counterproductive if you're going to immerse your feet in water high enough, as the waterproof membrane will just hold in the water once its in the shoes. In the current damp but not freezing weather I'd definitely be avoiding waterproof shoes on the AON route, given how boggy it is. If it was icy/snowy on the ground then that might change my mind, as there is a much higher chance of avoiding imersing your feet in water.

I'd also avoid sealskinz style socks for ultra runs. They're a recipe for trenchfoot and blisters, as they also hold dampness in. I've gone through the process of testing these things to extremes, and concluded they're not really for runners.

So what you have to do is wear some really good socks with your trailrunners. I'd be looking at really thick padded hillwalking style socks. The double-lined 1000 mile socks are good too. Normal running socks are definitely not designed for the AON route in winter.

I did a gear review of what I wore in the UTMB, which in terms of gear choice would be very similar to the AON.

trailrunner

Did a reccie from ballingee to black hill at the weekend, very wet under foot, fog was very bad on top just about 30 to 50 meters visibility had to really rely on our nav skills, decided to follow the grid refs from the AON website to be on the safe side, fog lifted a little coming back and seen the river just under billy Byrnes which we thought would be the quickest way down, but just wondered why the route on website gos over to glenbride and down by the lodge.? Do we have to go this way on the night or can we navigate our own way to each checkpoint ?

nerraw1111

If anyone wants to do a recce on a Sunday, give me a shout. Can't make Saturdays alas.

Alorra

Enduro wrote: »

General gear advice:

Waterproof shoes are counterproductive if you're going to immerse your feet in water high enough, as the waterproof membrane will just hold in the water once its in the shoes. In the current damp but not freezing weather I'd definitely be avoiding waterproof shoes on the AON route, given how boggy it is. If it was icy/snowy on the ground then that might change my mind, as there is a much higher chance of avoiding imersing your feet in water.

I'd also avoid sealskinz style socks for ultra runs. They're a recipe for trenchfoot and blisters, as they also hold dampness in. I've gone through the process of testing these things to extremes, and concluded they're not really for runners.

So what you have to do is wear some really good socks with your trailrunners. I'd be looking at really thick padded hillwalking style socks. The double-lined 1000 mile socks are good too. Normal running socks are definitely not designed for the AON route in winter.

I did a gear review of what I wore in the UTMB, which in terms of gear choice would be very similar to the AON.

Hi
I think all the previous reviews have been based on guys completing the Ultra/running. i.e. that waterproof shoes create more problems than solving them due to water getting in. Is the above advice suitable to the hikers as well? Is it that wet, that boots are a hazard at this stage even for the hikers hence unadvisable. (i am going to purchase a good pair of boots either way but perhaps i should be adding to my options and getting trail shoes as well.)

Hoping to get out up there at the weekend to have a look, test gear and conditions etc. Thanks for all the reports so far interesting reading.

Enduro

trailrunner wrote: »

Do we have to go this way on the night or can we navigate our own way to each checkpoint ?

You're actively encouraged to find your own way. The national park would prefer if everyone didn't trample down the same ground.

Alorra wrote: »

Hi
I think all the previous reviews have been based on guys completing the Ultra/running. i.e. that waterproof shoes create more problems than solving them due to water getting in. Is the above advice suitable to the hikers as well? Is it that wet, that boots are a hazard at this stage even for the hikers hence unadvisable. (i am going to purchase a good pair of boots either way but perhaps i should be adding to my options and getting trail shoes as well.)

Walking is different. You have plenty of time to walk around particularly wet bits, and walking boots are much higher than running shoes.

ThisRegard

I was planning on picking up the East-West map this week but I was reading Moire O'Sullivans Wicklow Round guide on her blog the other night and she mentioned that Arts Cross is incorrect on the East-West map.

I imagine this has since been corrected ?

Rogue Runner

Seemed spot on to me.

ThisRegard

Cheers, I was thinking it would be fine now, the blog spot is probably a few years old but I haven't managed to find it since to see what date it was published.

Enduro

In my experience (and a few other experienced navigator's too) the East-West maps tend to be particularly good with man-made features. Are you sure Moire said the map was wrong? I don't think it would be fair to be casting aspersions on someone's product like that unless you're absolutely sure!

Micilin Muc

From the Art O'Neill website:

They say good things come to those who wait but it would seem that the Sword of Damocles is going to fall on Art O'Neill on this occasion. It is looking increasingly unlikely that any additional places will be permitted by the National Park. We are desperately trying to get an increase and will announce the ultimate decision on Friday. We are obviously very disappointed but the decision is out of our hands and with the National Parks and Wildlife Service. This great event is having its wings severely clipped

nerraw1111

Enduro wrote: »

In my experience (and a few other experienced navigator's too) the East-West maps tend to be particularly good with man-made features. Are you sure Moire said the map was wrong? I don't think it would be fair to be casting aspersions on someone's product like that unless you're absolutely sure!

It's the Harvey map she's referring to.

There is a faint path here that runs through the bog from Lough Firrib to Arts Cross, but it is very difficult to find. At the major crag T 142 988, follow a bearing of 284 degrees to Arts Cross (a wooden cross set in concrete) located at 638 metres height. Note that on the Harvey’s map, Arts Cross is not marked properly.

Enduro

"not marked properly" could mean anything though. Good to get clarification on which map is in question.

All maps tend to have their foibles, especially when it comes to man-made features. Yet another good reason for Recces

ThisRegard

That's the comment I was talking about Nerraw, I obviously mistook what map she mentioned. As Enduro says, it could simply mean that it has an incorrect legend marking the spot.

Apologies to the respective cartographers.