Sick/Dead Geese :(

Ayla

We've had 3 geese, completely outdoors, for over 2 years now, no problems. On Friday morning one was dead in the grass when we checked on them in the morning, the other two were fine. Saturday afternoon one became quite ill but we thought we got him through the worst but he suddenly died in the early hours of this morning. Now we are nursing our last, who has seemed the best throughout the whole weekend but I'm hesitant to think that she'll be ok b/c she's not 100%.

At first we were thinking it could be scour (which my hubby has experience with through cattle/sheep), and our vet suggested syringing electrolytes. We tried that with the second goose on Saturday, and we brought him and the last goose inside & put them in a big box next to our woodstove. Because of this he started coming around and I was thinking the worst was over. 3:30am he was alive, 8am he was dead.

Now, this last one. She was doing ok, walking, hissing, eating/drinking so I thought I'd bring her out in what was the warm afternoon sun. Within an hour she was sedate. I brought her right back in by the stove where she's been ever since. She's back up again, drinking some electrolytes, hissing, but not overly active. And she's had a rather significant amount of runny poos in the last couple hours.

Anyone have *any* idea what else we can do? It's probably not scour at this point, but there are literally no other symptoms of anything. Eyes/nostrils are clear, no unusual breathing or noises. Just very sedate/lethargic. Our vet has no suggestions, are there any other "down home" remedies to try? Just don't want to have to dig another hole with our 5 yr-old daughter

Qualitymark

Has any neighbour been spraying pesticides?

Ayla

We don't have neighbors. The surrounding fields have been used for grazing but nothing's been anywhere near them all year.

Our last goose is still holding on - there was a point yesterday afternoon I thought she was heading down, but she recooped. The whole thing's odd. All we can guess now is that something poisonous bloomed in the field. Or some airborne bacteria. She's becoming a regular feature next to our woodstove at this point.

Qualitymark

Ragwort?

The other possibility is that they were stressed by an attack by dogs, for instance; fowl can get heart attacks a day or so later from such stress. (Typically they'll either suddenly fly up and flip over dead, out of the blue, or else stagger and lie down, panting, then die.)

Ayla

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ragwort?

:eek: Maybe...I think I may have seen the flowers out there. I'll check tonight :eek:

So, liver damage. Probably irreversable, right? No hope?
Makes me wonder about a pig we had on site a few years ago...the other four were in perfect health but this one suddenly went poorly at this time of year. After doing all the treatment we could we wound up putting him down. Ach gad.

There is a list on this website of plants and poisons that can affect poultry, might not be a bad idea to have a quick look through it and see if anything stands out.

Qualitymark

It's also the time of year when people poison mice and rats - a poisoned mouse shared between a few geese wouldn't do them any good.

Ayla

Thanks for your help & replies - I really have appreciated it.

I suppose it's fortunate that we can generally rule out any sort of pesticides/herbicides/or vermin poisoning. We're surrounded by disused grazing ground & forestry so the chance of anyone accidentally or deliberately (:eek:) poisoning our geese is small.

No, thinking on it, I would guess it's most likely some sort of poisonous weed that they ate. Maybe it wasn't but it could have been. Now the question is just what to do with her...if it was ragwort then the prognosis isn't good. No antidote, no treatment. So we have a lovely question to consider...

Qualitymark

Further:

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/53177/poisonous-plants-for-geese

http://jkenny.hubpages.com/hub/Wildfowl_and_Angel_Wing

Mouldy food - you do know that you should never give anything mouldy to fowl? Absolutely deadly to them.

You might also ask this question on feathersite.com, which is haunted by commercial and backyard poultry keepers and has a huge range of experience.

Ayla

No, our feed was fine (we're aware of the issues w/ mouldy food). After walking the field this evening, I'm virtually certain the culprit is ragwort. I'm not from here (USA) and my husband (who's from here) hasn't seen it but a couple times in his youth so we didn't think to be on the lookout for it. Definitely our fault & seriously kicking myself now....but there it is. The gloves will be on & the weeds pulled in the AM and for the next several years to boot until it's all gone.

Our last goose we've had inside since Saturday. Today's been her best day, quite feisty and good appetite, so we'll see what she does tomorrow when we let her out (in a clean weedfree field). If it really was the ragwort then there's little hope of longterm health, so we may have to make a call.

periodictable

If you still have a dead bird, take it to the local state veterinary unit which does an autopsy for free-at least you'll know what has happened.
I'd be surprised if it was ragwort-that leads to haemmoraging. Sounds more like a bacterial or viral cause.
Try pulling up the ragwort, and spot spray with glyphosate. Also get a bag or two of lime pellets and lime the pasture-that helps stop many pests mid-lifecycle.

Qualitymark

Good advice there. I know ragwort is poisonous to mammals, but not for sure that it harms poultry. A veterinary test would be good; your local agricultural adviser can tell you if it's available.

Ayla

I was reading something this afternoon that charted a range of animals that can be poisoned by ragwort, including turkeys & chickens. Of course I can't find that article again now :rolleyes:

But I did find this:

Common ragwort (Jacobaea vulgaris) ... contain compounds that are poisonous to most vertebrates and insects...The symptoms of pyrrolizidine alkaloid poisoning are not very specific and include weight loss, lack of appetite and energy, dull coat, crusts, especially on the coronary band (horses), photosensitation, jaundice, and neurological signs, such as staggering, walking in circles, inattentiveness, restlessness, and panicking behavior

http://www.ragwort.jakobskruiskruid.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=9

Now our geese's symptoms haven't really lined up 100% with those symptoms, but I suppose it is still possible to be that. Bar that, some sort of bacteria/virus that we'll never know.

Ah, here's that other link: http://www.ragtaguk.com/symptomsofragwortpoisoning.html

Qualitymark

I'd be very eager to know, because you don't want a bird flu killing birds near you unbeknownst to you. I'd give the agricultural adviser a call and ask to have a body tested.

By the way, the Koreans say they cured bird flu (and Sars!) with kimchi; if there's a Chinese grocery near you, maybe pick up a couple of packets and make some soup for yourselves and for the goose. (Kimchi is basically a fermented cabbage, lethally hot and spicy, very nice in soup though it smells revolting.)

Ayla

After talking it out with our vet we decided to take our last remaining goose to the lab. Wasn't pleasant, but hopefully the results will show something.

Looking back a couple years ago we had 5 pigs, one of which suddenly got ill & failed (similiar symptoms to this, and at this time of year) and we ultimately put him down. That's why we decided to take this goose to the lab - if there's something out in our site or something we can prevent this happening again we will.

Thanks again everyone for your help. If I find anything out I'll post it.

Qualitymark

Very sorry to hear this. I hope you discover what's killing your animals and are able to get rid of it.

Ayla

An update: I called the vet today for the results of the autopsy. Some worms & stones in the gut, but nothing of any signficance. Certaintly not enough to cause the symptoms & death of our 3 birds.

Apparently, doesn't seem to have been a toxology/pathology report, and the vet will look into that on Tues. Will not be impressed if they didn't do any bloodwork!

Qualitymark

Results?

Ayla

Still nothing bar a note posted to us from the lab saying more results would be sent out to the vet. We got this note a couple weeks ago so I'm hoping the vet has something soon. Will let you know as soon as we hear anything. At least now we know bloods were done!

Magenta

Did you ever hear back about the bloodwork Ayla?

Ayla

Nope. The vet has contacted the lab multiple (like 4+ times) looking for results and nothing's been sent back yet. Leading me to think that the lab either lost them or never did them to begin with. Surely it wouldn't take over 2 months for tests to be completed....

Bummer, we could have used that info.

Qualitymark

Ayla wrote: »

Nope. The vet has contacted the lab multiple (like 4+ times) looking for results and nothing's been sent back yet. Leading me to think that the lab either lost them or never did them to begin with. Surely it wouldn't take over 2 months for tests to be completed....

Bummer, we could have used that info.

Poor goose.

Edit: I hope the lab wasn't paid if it didn't produce results.

Ayla

Chased the vet/lab yesterday, and guess what? The lab never did any blood work. NOT impressed :mad:

So the end result of all this is that we will never know what killed our geese.

Thanks all for your ideas/suggestions.

Qualitymark

And your last goose was killed for nothing.

Did you pay the vet for killing the goose and sending off the blood? Did you pay the lab?

Ayla

No, no one was paid. Guess we got what we paid for then :rolleyes:

The way it worked with this case was that the vet suggested we take our goose (still live) to the lab, where they would put her down & do the autopsy. Unfortunately now the vet has come back & said they've had other problems with the lab where they sent us. I don't think there are any other labs in the region (south Donegal/Sligo), and it doesn't matter anymore anyway. Bummer though, it would have been nice to know if there were any nasties out there we need to avoid with future stock.

Qualitymark

Ayla wrote: »

No, no one was paid. Guess we got what we paid for then :rolleyes:

Poor goose didn't.