First competition pistol

Cavan duck buster

Hi there, i was introduced to pistol shooting a few weeks ago and i fell in love with it, i have already thought of what i would like to own, the ruger mark iii competition model, but the only problem is that my house is a b&b/pub and it would cost roughly 20,000 to monitor alarm the house, thats what my ma said that, do you think it should be cheeper??? Also i was talking to a garda the other night as i was meant to meet the f/o but was given the wrong date, but he said i could maybe still the get the licence by keeping it at the pistol range club house safe(if they have one) do any of you do this, or even can that be done, i'm joining Lough Bo in Dec so do any of you know if thats possible.
Thanks lads

Witcher

Are you at the security level that requires a monitored alarm..how many do you hold already?

Cavan duck buster

Blay wrote: »

Are you at the security level that requires a monitored alarm..how many do you hold already?

I have 1 shotgun and 1 .22rifle and my father has another shotgun

Witcher

You're not in the monitored alarm category yet just a standard alarm and the specified lock on the room with the safe..this is your level here if you were looking to get the pistol;

Two restricted firearms or more
than three non-restricted firearms;

Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558, and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure. The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.

This is assuming the super is happy with a standard alarm, he could ask for a monitored one...best off asking the FO what sort of security you'd be looking at.

Cavan duck buster

Blay wrote: »

You're not in the monitored alarm category yet just a standard alarm on the room with the safe and a mortise lock..this is your level here if you were looking to get the pistol;

Two restricted firearms or more
than three non-restricted firearms;

Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558, and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure. The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.

This is assuming the super is happy with a standard alarm, he could ask for a monitored one...best off asking the FO what sort of security you'd be looking at.

Thanks soo much, i though in general that all pistols had to monitored alarmed if the supper wants it, it probably be a restricted licence seance i cant find 5 round magazines for it, do you know what the price would probably be around, it a small enough room???
Thanks

Cass

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

............... but the only problem is that my house is a b&b/pub and it would cost roughly 20,000 to monitor alarm the house,............

Holly sweet crap.

I would seriously look at that figure again. €20,000 is hugely excessive, irrespective of the size or nature of the property.

While you are not within that level of security the guidelines are minimum standards meaning (as said above) that the Super may request a higher level.

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Thanks soo much, i though in general that all pistols had to monitored alarmed if the supper wants it, it probably be a restricted licence seance i cant find 5 round magazines for it, do you know what the price would probably be around, it a small enough room???
Thanks

There's no law stating all pistols require a monitored alarm..it's at the super's discretion really...they can decide upon any of the security levels for any firearm. You wouldn't get a restricted licence for it unfortunately..they're not being issued anymore but don't sweat it about the mags they come as 10 rounders etc. but your RFD should be able to modify them so the follower only lets 5 rounds in. I wouldn't have a clue what the alarm would cost ya really but you could try asking in the Home Security Systems forum..I think there are some alarm installers over there:)

Cavan duck buster

Ezridax wrote: »

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

............... but the only problem is that my house is a b&b/pub and it would cost roughly 20,000 to monitor alarm the house,............

Holly sweet crap.

I would seriously look at that figure again. €20,000 is hugely excessive, irrespective of the size or nature of the property.

While you are not within that level of security the guidelines are minimum standards meaning (as said above) that the Super may request a higher level.

But i can always challenge him in court if i wanted, as I'm in my rights(i may be 50/50 here) also, are fire alarm system that had to be fitted my strict standerds and cost us €11,000 :O :O
Am i right here

Cass

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

But i can always challenge him in court if i wanted,

You can. Is it worth it though. he cost of a case to challenge what you deem excessive security measures may exceed the cost of the security measures themself.

are fire alarm system that had to be fitted my strict standerds and cost us €11,000 :O :O
Am i right here

What fire alarm system? All that is required under any of the guidelines/rules are security. Nothing about fire suppression/alarm systems.

Cavan duck buster

Ezridax wrote: »

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

But i can always challenge him in court if i wanted,

You can. Is it worth it though. he cost of a case to challenge what you deem excessive security measures may exceed the cost of the security measures themself.

are fire alarm system that had to be fitted my strict standerds and cost us €11,000 :O :O
Am i right here

What fire alarm system? All that is required under any of the guidelines/rules are security. Nothing about fire suppression/alarm systems.

Just putting it out there realy, if the supper demands a monitor alarm would i be able to store it at the pistol club house if they had one???
Thanks

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Just putting it out there realy, if the supper demands a monitor alarm would i be able to store it at the pistol club house if they had one???
Thanks

Yeah there's a section on the form for storing the firearm at a location other than your house..you just fill in the clubs details, that's assuming they can store them.

Cavan duck buster

Blay wrote: »

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Just putting it out there realy, if the supper demands a monitor alarm would i be able to store it at the pistol club house if they had one???
Thanks

Yeah there's a section on the form for storing the firearm at a location other than your house..you just fill in the clubs details, that's assuming they can store them.

Thanks lads, this will be very help full for tomorrow with the FO, getting back to my first comment, ware could i get the ruger mark iii???
Thanks , better go for now, have school at 9 in a couple of hours, back to yas in the morn

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Thanks lads, this will be very help full for tomorrow with the FO, getting back to my first comment, ware could i get the ruger mark iii???
Thanks , better go for now, have school at 9 in a couple of hours, back to yas in the morn

Ya should pick one up fairly handy..not every dealer will deal in pistols but if ya find a dealer who does then they should be able to get ya one no problem..most pistol dealers will have had one in at some point.

clivej

Hi Cavan duck buster, Your going way, way over the top with the secuirty needed or will be required for your firearms.

As already stated above its only the room thats the gun safe is in that need to be secured not the complete properity. As you will be over the 3 firearm limit you will need at the least a n alarm on the room.

I had a Yale wire free, that's battery operated and radio linked, fitted to my house before I need a full monitored system.
This I bought from the local bigger hardware store @€;350, it had 3 door sensors and 2 walk by PIR detectors. It was all that was need to cover my 4 bed house. And the Superintendent was OK with it.

I then had installed the Eircom monitored wire free GSM system. This again covered the complete house with a 2 zone, home and away, and is conected to the monitor people over the mobile network. Total cost €1800 for the first 3 years.

As your Super is , at present, OK with your home holding 3 firearms without any alarm system in place then he may well be OK with just the cheaper option of the Yale type of alarm system fitted to the main residence part of the properity and exclude the Pub/B&B.

Talk it over with your FO and welcome to the mad bad world of competition handgun shooting.

Also think again about the handgun your looking at as there are many other to look at and may shoot better. Don't buy on looks alone. Get along to some of the open days at a range where you can try out and shoot many different handguns and find one that suits your needs and pocket/$$$$. Also there many second hand bargans out there when your amonst people that use them.

Cavan duck buster

clivej wrote: »

Hi Cavan duck buster, Your going way, way over the top with the secuirty needed or will be required for your firearms.

As already stated above its only the room thats the gun safe is in that need to be secured not the complete properity. As you will be over the 3 firearm limit you will need at the least a n alarm on the room.

I had a Yale wire free, that's battery operated and radio linked, fitted to my house before I need a full monitored system.
This I bought from the local bigger hardware store @€;350, it had 3 door sensors and 2 walk by PIR detectors. It was all that was need to cover my 4 bed house. And the Superintendent was OK with it.

I then had installed the Eircom monitored wire free GSM system. This again covered the complete house with a 2 zone, home and away, and is conected to the monitor people over the mobile network. Total cost €1800 for the first 3 years.

As your Super is , at present, OK with your home holding 3 firearms without any alarm system in place then he may well be OK with just the cheaper option of the Yale type of alarm system fitted to the main residence part of the properity and exclude the Pub/B&B.

Talk it over with your FO and welcome to the mad bad world of competition handgun shooting.

Also think again about the handgun your looking at as there are many other to look at and may shoot better. Don't buy on looks alone. Get along to some of the open days at a range where you can try out and shoot many different handguns and find one that suits your needs and pocket/$$$$. Also there many second hand bargans out there when your amonst people that use them.

Thanks for that, i say that my my only fear of rejection of the licence is that i'm only gone 18 a week ago and the supper may think i'm too young for it,
But by right i should be 100% able to get the licence as i'm now an adult

BattleCorp

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Thanks for that, i say that my my only fear of rejection of the licence is that i'm only gone 18 a week ago and the supper may think i'm too young for it,
But by right i should be 100% able to get the licence as i'm now an adult

You are 18 so you are legally allowed to apply for a firearm certificate. It doesn't matter if today is your 18th birthday or if you are 50. Legally you are allowed to apply.

Seeing as you live in a B&B/Pub, the Super will probably want you to have a monitored alarm, seeing as you would have plenty of strangers on the premises etc. But that's up to the Super to decide.

Wiring up a pub/b&b for a fire alarm is very different to setting up a monitored alarm. I went with Eircom and we got the full house done for less than €1,000. The monitoring costs are €25.25 per month so I've good peace of mind and more importantly, the Gardai are happy with my security arrangements. There are cheaper systems out there but Eircom is pretty reliable.

As Clivej said above, you don't need to have the whole house alarmed. You could get a quote off an alarm company for just monitoring the room with the safe.

The Ruger is a nice pistol but try as many out as you can. I wouldn't be in a rush to buy a gun yet. What looks cool isn't always the best or most accurate gun to shoot. And what shoots well for one shooter, might not necessarily suit another person. It's all down to size, weight, feel etc. Go to open days or up to the club and ask people about their firearms. You'll find most people will be happy enough to give you their opinions. :rolleyes: It's getting them to shut up is the hard part.

Cavan duck buster

BattleCorp wrote: »

You are 18 so you are legally allowed to apply for a firearm certificate. It doesn't matter if today is your 18th birthday or if you are 50. Legally you are allowed to apply.

Seeing as you live in a B&B/Pub, the Super will probably want you to have a monitored alarm, seeing as you would have plenty of strangers on the premises etc. But that's up to the Super to decide.

Wiring up a pub/b&b for a fire alarm is very different to setting up a monitored alarm. I went with Eircom and we got the full house done for less than €1,000. The monitoring costs are €25.25 per month so I've good peace of mind and more importantly, the Gardai are happy with my security arrangements. There are cheaper systems out there but Eircom is pretty reliable.

As Clivej said above, you don't need to have the whole house alarmed. You could get a quote off an alarm company for just monitoring the room with the safe.

The Ruger is a nice pistol but try as many out as you can. I wouldn't be in a rush to buy a gun yet. What looks cool isn't always the best or most accurate gun to shoot. And what shoots well for one shooter, might not necessarily suit another person. It's all down to size, weight, feel etc. Go to open days or up to the club and ask people about their firearms. You'll find most people will be happy enough to give you their opinions. :rolleyes: It's getting them to shut up is the hard part.

Thanks battlecrop, just back from the Garda station, i was talking to the F/O and he was saying that i need a monitor alarm, a letter form lough Bo stating that i'm a member and two safes to store the pistol, i told him that if i could store it the club/R gun dealer it would help a LOT!!!
He told me that are new supper doesn't like at all licensing firearms in general never mind pistols but saying that the pistol would be store at the club/ R dealer there shouldn't be any reason why i cant get a licence.
So when i get my member ship sorted out i should be on business,
But there was one thing i forgot to ask, if i wanted to go to a competition lets say, hilltop, dose the main club owner/ R Dealer have to bring it down???

Hope this makes seance to ya's

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Thanks battlecrop, just back from the Garda station, i was talking to the F/O and he was saying that i need a monitor alarm, a letter form lough Bo stating that i'm a member and two safes to store the pistol, i told him that if i could store it the club/R gun dealer it would help a LOT!!!
He told me that are new supper doesn't like at all licensing firearms in general never mind pistols but saying that the pistol would be store at the club/ R dealer there shouldn't be any reason why i cant get a licence.
So when i get my member ship sorted out i should be on business,
But there was one thing i forgot to ask, if i wanted to go to a competition lets say, hilltop, dose the main club owner/ R Dealer have to bring it down???

Hope this makes seance to ya's

Does lough bo have the facility of store firearms?
You're free to take the pistol off the range to a shoot at another club but afterwards it has to be brought straight back to the range for storage, you can't store it overnight in your own house.

Cavan duck buster

Blay wrote: »

Does lough bo have the facility of store firearms?
You're free to take the pistol off the range to a shoot at another club but afterwards it has to be brought straight back to the range for storage, you can't store it overnight in your own house.

I was told that they don't have the facilities for storing firearms but i was told jerry has a gun shop so i could leave it in with him, i hope

cw67irl

Iv just put in my first pistol app and the local sgt not the FO, Told me that the super would want it stored at the club I said that the club was 30odd miles from my house and while it was my home club it wouldnt do a lot of pistol competitions so I would frequently be travelling to HH or Hiltop, Fermoy wherever so It wouldnt be feasible to store it anywhere other than my home, He was happy enough, While a lot of Gardai are anti firearms or maybe just anti pistols if you explain your case, Have a valid reason and have all your documents in order most are happy enough with that!

Just my own experiences of Pistol Licencing, Also do try before you buy, There are a good few dealers that sell pistols but the best bet is to get to a few competitions and get talking to lads there, Some will be serious pistol shooters and know the ins and outs of different models!

I got a Smith and Wesson 22A, Delighted with it, Just waiting on my cert so I can get started!!

Browning Buckmark is also nice gun! That was another I considered! Hammerli Xesse aswell but they can be expensive!

Hope it helps

rowa

I had a ruger mk3 competition and liked it a lot , if you do buy one get one with a short barrel , the longer barreled ones are very heavy, the 22/45 lite is a nice looking pistol and is aluminium contruction, might be worth a look.
http://www.ruger.com/products/2245Lite/models.html

Cavan duck buster

rowa wrote: »

I had a ruger mk3 competition and liked it a lot , if you do buy one get one with a short barrel , the longer barreled ones are very heavy, the 22/45 lite is a nice looking pistol and is aluminium contruction, might be worth a look.
http://www.ruger.com/products/2245Lite/models.html

That a lovely looking pistol, i had my eye mainly on the
Ruger Mark iii Competition
http://www.ruger.com/mobile/products/10112.html

Ruger Mark iii hunter (i know i cant hunt with it)
http://www.ruger.com/mobile/products/10118.html

COLT GOVERNMENT MODEL .22 SEMI/AUTO
http://www.atlanticshootingandfishing.com/product-details.aspx?id=148&expandable=0

Have any pf you lad's/lassies seen any of these pistols at the range???

cw67irl

Of those 3 i would go for the hunter, Its a nice pistol handles well! I would drop the colt , If your set on a 1911 clone go for the gsg version its a much better pistol, If you do buy the gsg get the version with the rail underneath the barrel, That allows you to mount optics like a red dot!!

It might be worth checking with your FO before you buy a 1911 some Supers wont licence them due to their "fullbore or tactical" appearance

Witcher

cw67irl wrote: »

It might be worth checking with your FO before you buy a 1911 some Supers wont licence them due to their "fullbore or tactical" appearance

Thats BS, they can't refuse you for that.

Cavan duck buster

cw67irl wrote: »

Of those 3 i would go for the hunter, Its a nice pistol handles well! I would drop the colt , If your set on a 1911 clone go for the gsg version its a much better pistol, If you do buy the gsg get the version with the rail underneath the barrel, That allows you to mount optics like a red dot!!

It might be worth checking with your FO before you buy a 1911 some Supers wont licence them due to their "fullbore or tactical" appearance

Do ya have a clue what the hunt may go for new/second hand

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Do ya have a clue what the hunt may go for new/second hand

Call a few RFD's who deal in pistols and ask them for prices on the models you're considering.

cw67irl

There was a thread recently about 2 lads that bought the 1911s one had the licence granted and revoked a week later and the other lad was refused!

There is a chance you could get the licence reinstated but if you dont want the hassle of a possible Court appearance just to get one you could just buy from the approved list,

Not sticking up for the Supers just saying that some can make pistol applications as awkward as possible, Something to consider when you are picking a pistol!!!

A simple call to the FO can clarify the situation in your district!

cw67irl

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=584

Cavan duck buster

cw67irl wrote: »

There was a thread recently about 2 lads that bought the 1911s one had the licence granted and revoked a week later and the other lad was refused!

There is a chance you could get the licence reinstated but if you dont want the hassle of a possible Court appearance just to get one you could just buy from the approved list,

Not sticking up for the Supers just saying that some can make pistol applications as awkward as possible, Something to consider when you are picking a pistol!!!

A simple call to the FO can clarify the situation in your district!

Ya I dont want a pistol for it looks, all i'm looking for is a good accurate pistol for competions

cw67irl

Hammerli Xesse, Smith and Wesson, Ruger Mk3, Buckmark,


These are all worth a good look!

Cavan duck buster

cw67irl wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=584

There is nothing in the thread, might be a problem

cw67irl

Sorry scroll down the shooting threads, 3rd page I think, Thread called sig/gsg 1911

Cavan duck buster

cw67irl wrote: »

Hammerli Xesse, Smith and Wesson, Ruger Mk3, Buckmark,


These are all worth a good look!

I have to admit they are great looking piostols but i would be looking for what in the inside than the outside of them, ya could have the best looking pistol in the world, but that dosen't matter to sh#t if you cant get good groups or get comfortable with it

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

I have to admit they are great looking piostols but i would be looking for what in the inside than the outside of them, ya could have the best looking pistol in the world, but that dosen't matter to sh#t if you cant get good groups or get comfortable with it

They're all great pistols and have won plenty of competitions between them.

BattleCorp

cw67irl wrote: »

If your set on a 1911 clone go for the gsg version its a much better pistol, If you do buy the gsg get the version with the rail underneath the barrel, That allows you to mount optics like a red dot!!

It might be worth checking with your FO before you buy a 1911 some Supers wont licence them due to their "fullbore or tactical" appearance

I might be wrong but the type of red dot sight that you can attach to the GSG underneath the barrel isn't allowed in competitions. The red dot under the barrel is a laser pointer type thing. It shines a red dot out onto the target and that isn't allowed in competitions if I'm not mistaken.

The sights that are allowed don't project a red dot onto the target, they only project a red dot inside a reticle (reflex sight). You see the red dot in your sights but it doesn't shine onto the target.

On the second point above. A Super can refuse to grant a firearm cert if, in his opinion, :mad: a rifle looks like it is a tactical rifle. There is no such law for pistols. It's a pity that the Super who refused the GSG wasn't aware of this fact.

Again, if I'm wrong with any of this info, please feel free to correct me.

cw67irl

Looking at one in Harbour Guns the cradle went around the gsg and "floated" above the slide to house a conventional red dot sight or mini scope.

Im pretty sure your right about not being allowed use a laser though!

Cavan duck buster

Are the red dots/scopes popular with pistols at the competitions or do they require to use iron sight

rowa

They are permitted in nra bullseye competitions.

BattleCorp

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Are the red dots/scopes popular with pistols at the competitions or do they require to use iron sight

They are allowed on all small bore pistol competitions held by the NASRPC.

Scalachi

Red Dot Scopes are allowed in NASRPC competitions, but going forward they will be in their own "Open" category


Regards

DB

Cavan duck buster

Scalachi wrote: »

Red Dot Scopes are allowed in NASRPC competitions, but going forward they will be in their own "Open" category


Regards

DB

Is there any competion in ireland that woun't allow them

clivej

Scalachi wrote: »

Red Dot Scopes are allowed in NASRPC competitions, but going forward they will be in their own "Open" category


Regards

DB

"......but going forward they will be in their own "Open" category"

Please explain more on this.
Looks like a trip to Specsavers is on the cards for me :(:(:(

tommyboy26

Scalachi wrote: »

Red Dot Scopes are allowed in NASRPC competitions, but going forward they will be in their own "Open" category


Regards

DB

i think thats only fair!!:D

Sparks

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Is there any competion in ireland that woun't allow them

Can't use them in ISSF pistol matches - they're iron sights only.

Cavan duck buster

Sparks wrote: »

Can't use them in ISSF pistol matches - they're iron sights only.

Thanks Sparks, The ISSF do they have any matches with .22lr or are the just full bore or both???
Thanks

IRLConor

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Thanks Sparks, The ISSF do they have any matches with .22lr or are the just full bore or both???
Thanks

At international level there's competition with both .22lr and with centrefire. The events are:

*50m free pistol .22lr (Men)
*25m Pistol .22lr (Women)
*25m Rapid Fire Pistol .22lr (Men)
25m Centre-fire Pistol .30-.38 (Men)
25m Standard Pistol .22lr (Men)
*10m Air Pistol .177 (Men & Women)

The ones with asterisks are Olympic events. The others are shot at all other levels. Don't ask me why some events are shot by women and some by men, that breakdown has never made sense to me!

Here, I haven't heard of any ISSF centrefire match being run but there have been the odd few smallbore ones. Contact Rathdrum Rifle and Pistol Club and they'll let you know when the next ISSF pistol competition is likely to be run.

Sparks

The ISSF matches are also shot in a different manner to the other - all one-handed, for a start. There are some pretty excellent training videos here if you want to take a peek.

Cavan duck buster

Was looking a revlovers and i like the smith & western model 617 .22lr,
It holds ten rounds and you can get speedloades fairly cheep at $25 each
That do you guys think?

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Was looking a revlovers and i like the smith & western model 617 .22lr,
It holds ten rounds and you can get speedloades fairly cheep at $25 each
That do you guys think?

I've fired one, it's a good gun but you won't really be shooting any of the competitions with one...just too slow to load it, trigger pull is hard on it too unless you're shooting it in single action. You'll have to have it plugged to five rounds too.

Cavan duck buster

Blay wrote: »

I've fired one, it's a good gun but you won't really be shooting any of the competitions with one...just too slow to load it, trigger pull is hard on it too unless you're shooting it in single action. You'll have to have it plugged to five rounds too.

Can i not just get it as a restricted firearm???

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Can i not just get it as a restricted firearm???

No licences being granted for restricted pistols atm:)