Advice Needed - Witholding of Deposit

maximoose

Looking for some advice on how to proceed with this, basically our deposit paid was €1400 and landlord is witholding €700 of this. Brief timeline of events - names are fictitious! -

• Moved into 4 bed house (4 tenants) 01/09/2011, 12 month lease and deposit of €1400 paid. Landlord on our lease and when moving in was Laura.
• Approx March 2012 we get a call/note saying that Laura is no longer our landlord, and it is now Sharon (her sister).
• Start of July 2012 we get a letter from Sharon saying that any issues we have and all future dealings with the lease are to be solely directed to Finglas Letting Company.
• August 2012 due to be our last month in the house, 2 tenants left the country midway through the month and myself and the last housemate still there trying to find a 2 bed place in Dublin. All rent due until end of Aug was fully paid.
• During the last week of August we contacted the Letting agency as finding somewhere was proving difficult, we asked that if needs be could we stay in the house for an extra month paying only €700 in rent. We explicitly asked would this affect our deposit and were told no. If it WAS going to affect our deposit, we had options to fall back on in Kildare until we could find somewhere in Dublin. So given that we had been assured it would not affect our deposit we paid €700 rent on 31st August to stay for the month of Sept. This, sadly, was not requested in writing.
• During sept we found an apartment, hurrah! Contacted letting agency 25/09 to try and arrange final inspection. After many unreturned calls/emails finally had someone out to inspect the property on 02/10 and there were no issues with the condition of the house. Another week of unreturned calls and fobbing off followed, always saying "they would get back to us asap" and they were "waiting on the landlord to come back to them" etc... until finally on 11/10 our landlord contacted us directly saying that she would only return €700 of the deposit as only €700 rent was paid for September. She acknowledged our dealings with the letting agency, but said they did not "have the authority" to make an agreement like that and is refusing to fully refund the deposit. We have argued with her and tried reasoning but no joy.

Have I a case if I take this to the PRTB?

edellc

You have nothing in writing so realistically you have no proof what the letting agent said therefore no case with the PRTB. However I do think that if the letting agent is acting as the agent for the property then they do speak for the landlady if that wasnt the case then why would she need them....maybe someone else can clarify if I am right or wrong, but as far as my memory on contract law can remember this is the case...maybe you can remind the LL of this.

What I would do is ring Threshold and ask them to advise you on how to proceed from here, you may be asked to put all this in writing and forward to the landlord, do this via registered mail. In the letter again request the full return of your deposit and set out a time frame and then let her come back to you. You can if you like get threshold to act as a go between if you need to also they are very helpful.

I do hate to say this but learn a lesson from this and any dealing you have with any landlord in the future is a business transaction and written proof of everything is needed, some are very slimy little slugs indeed so care and attention is needed when dealing with them, especially if you are a good tenant as you seem to be.

djimi

Were all four of your names on the lease, ie did you rent the place as one unit, or did you each just rent a room in the accomodation from the landlord?

Assuming you rented as one unit, was your monthly rent €1400?

If you rented as a unit then you were all jointly part of a 12 month fixed term lease, which became a part 4 tenancy once the fixed term expired. You did not have to ask permission to stay beyond the fixed term; part 4 rights are aquired automatically. However, as you rented as a unit then you would be expected to pay all of the agreed rent while you remain (not just half as two of you have now departed). The rent in the lease covers the entire accomodation, regardless of how many tenants actually remain to pay the rent at any given time. Also, under a part 4 tenancy you are expected to give 35 days notice in writing when you intend to vacate the property.

If you have nothing in writing to prove that the letting agent agreed to allow you only pay €700 for the extra month of letting then you might not have much of a case Im afraid. The landlord is entitled to retain the deposit to make up for any unpaid rent, and without anything to prove otherwise you are technically €700 in arrears on your rent.

Without giving sufficient notice in writing you have also technically broken the lease illegally, and the landlord could persue you for moneys lost as a consequence.

My advise would be to contact Threshold and see what they advise. They will listen to your situation and will advise where you stand legally and whether or not they feel you have a case to take to the PRTB.

Best of luck.

maximoose

Thanks for the replies, I think the crux of the problem is the fact we didn't get it in writing that the €700 was acceptable. I've been fairly lucky to have had honest landlords previous to this and foolishly took their word for it!

I'll be contacting Threshold later on today and will see what they make of it

MariMel

maximoose wrote: »

Looking for some advice on how to proceed with this, basically our deposit paid was €1400 and landlord is witholding €700 of this. Brief timeline of events - names are fictitious! -

• Moved into 4 bed house (4 tenants) 01/09/2011, 12 month lease and deposit of €1400 paid. Landlord on our lease and when moving in was Laura.
• Approx March 2012 we get a call/note saying that Laura is no longer our landlord, and it is now Sharon (her sister).
• Start of July 2012 we get a letter from Sharon saying that any issues we have and all future dealings with the lease are to be solely directed to Finglas Letting Company.
• August 2012 due to be our last month in the house, 2 tenants left the country midway through the month and myself and the last housemate still there trying to find a 2 bed place in Dublin. All rent due until end of Aug was fully paid.
• During the last week of August we contacted the Letting agency as finding somewhere was proving difficult, we asked that if needs be could we stay in the house for an extra month paying only €700 in rent. We explicitly asked would this affect our deposit and were told no. If it WAS going to affect our deposit, we had options to fall back on in Kildare until we could find somewhere in Dublin. So given that we had been assured it would not affect our deposit we paid €700 rent on 31st August to stay for the month of Sept. This, sadly, was not requested in writing.
• During sept we found an apartment, hurrah! Contacted letting agency 25/09 to try and arrange final inspection. After many unreturned calls/emails finally had someone out to inspect the property on 02/10 and there were no issues with the condition of the house. Another week of unreturned calls and fobbing off followed, always saying "they would get back to us asap" and they were "waiting on the landlord to come back to them" etc... until finally on 11/10 our landlord contacted us directly saying that she would only return €700 of the deposit as only €700 rent was paid for September. She acknowledged our dealings with the letting agency, but said they did not "have the authority" to make an agreement like that and is refusing to fully refund the deposit. We have argued with her and tried reasoning but no joy.

Have I a case if I take this to the PRTB?

this is the bit i am wondering might be relevant?
The LL said that that letting agent would be dealing with all issues so therefore from my thinking, they have already been given authority by her.
Yes everything should be in writing.
I would request a face to face meeting with the agency and have them confirm that they give you permission to only pay half rent for sept.

maximoose

That was my understanding of the situation as well, we had been told explicitly that all dealings were to be direct with the agency.. so we made our request to them, they gave us the permission and we understood either they had consulted the landlord or had the authority to grant it.

I might email the girl we were dealing with in the agency and see if I can get her to acknowledge stating our deposit would not be affected so that I have something in writing to that effect.

djimi

MariMel wrote: »

this is the bit i am wondering might be relevant?
The LL said that that letting agent would be dealing with all issues so therefore from my thinking, they have already been given authority by her.
Yes everything should be in writing.
I would request a face to face meeting with the agency and have them confirm that they give you permission to only pay half rent for sept.

The OP has nothing in writing from either the landlord or the letting agent wrt paying only €700 for the 13th month, so I dont think its all that relevant either way tbh. If they had it in writing from the letting agent then they could use the original letter from the landlord giving the letting agent full control to back up their case, but as it stands who has control over the letting is irrelevant.

Youre not wrong though; request a meeting with the letting agent and see what they have to say. Chances are they will just deny everything to cover their ass, but its worth a try.

maximoose

djimi wrote: »

Chances are they will just deny everything to cover their ass, but its worth a try.

Yep, from my experience with them so far this is exactly what I am expecting

fishy fishy

if it is not in writing you haven't a leg to stand on, unless the letting agent admits that they told you that you could have the last month at 700 (leaving them 700 out of pocket) so I doubt it.

Listen, bear this in mind. Landlords are notorious for keeping security deposits, especially from students and they will do everything in their power to hold onto it. You have to be smarter than them - never mind if they are nice - its a business. I have seen this time and time again with landlords, happened to myself but the PRTB sorted it out. It's greed. You need to be on top of your game and have everything in writing.

fishy fishy

just wondering, did your landlord give you the change of lease details in writing - you could bring this up if she didn't. Maybe she should have not changed lease agreement before the time, i.e. changing who the landlord is - you signed the lease with one person. Did you get anything in writing. It's worth a try.