Spurs v Chelsea

golfball37

Dempsey plain and simple would not get into any serious team with any serious ambitions. He has no first touch or football brain. He looked like a complete plodder on Saturday.

I flagged Sigurdson up during the summer in that I was wondering how come he never made it with a mid table German side, now I know why. He is very average. He is still better than Dempsey and I'd keep him as a squad player but VDV had more ability in his bad foot than the 2 boys put together.

Having said all that, we played well in patches in the 2nd half and showed good endevour.. I blame Gallas for the 1st 3 goals myself, YK cannot come back quick enough. Wlaker is no suproise to me as I never rated him, even if he was good last season I knew he hadn't got it. If he was foreign there'd be nothing said about him, but because he is English anything good he does is overblown.

Its worrying that we lacked creativity without the 2 boys but any team would miss these players. Overall I'm still hopeful of a top 4 finish, the squad we have should not be aiming any lower.

KingdomYid

Ormus wrote: »

It woulda been great to get a result against Chelsea for the sake of AVB.

Walker and Gallas were both very poor. Walker has been poor all season, maybe he started to think he was the finished article. He must notice now that he has a lotta hard work left to do. I don't think Gallas should be dropped yet, his experience is crucial.

We were missing our 2 driving forces Bale and Dembele. It hurt us bad.

I think people remember VdV with rose tinted glasses. He was a quality player but he was anonymous for months of last season and his lack of fitness/pace used to make him a complete passenger when he didn't have his shooting boots on. Siggy and Dempsey were phenomenal last season and were good signings. So far neither of them has hit form but it hasn't been that long. They will come good.

On the subject of this forum, I've disagreed with most people on here at one time or another, but that's kinda what a forum is all about and it's always done in good spirit. Some Spurs fans are positive, some are negative, most are balanced, c'est la vie.

First and foremost it would have been nice to beat Chelsea for the sake of Tottenham Hotspur Fc, this is not the AVB show afterall.

Secondly Gallas did not show much experience on Saturday with two weak clearances which cost us goals, give me Mickey Dawson any day of the week.

Yes I agree the loss of Bale and Dembele really hurt us.

Ormus

KingdomYid wrote: »

First and foremost it would have been nice to beat Chelsea for the sake of Tottenham Hotspur Fc, this is not the AVB show afterall.

Secondly Gallas did not show much experience on Saturday with two weak clearances which cost us goals, give me Mickey Dawson any day of the week.

Yes I agree the loss of Bale and Dembele really hurt us.

What I meant was that a result against Chelsea, apart from the obvious benefits, would have had the added benefit of answering some of AVB's critics, giving him a bit more confidence, getting the press off his back, vindicating Levy appointing him, and winning over some fans. All of this would be good for Tottenham Hotspur FC I think you might agree?

Gallas was poor on Saturday and he will have other poor days this season. The cracks are starting to show with his age. But he is crucial for his organising abilities. Vertonghen has said that he treats him like a little brother and he wouldn't have settled at the Lane as easily without him. I reckon Caulker would say the same. I love Dawson and I think he wouldn't have played as badly on Saturday, but he would be a disaster playing a high line. Kaboul is the man we need to replace Gallas.

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

I think people remember VdV with rose tinted glasses. He was a quality player but he was anonymous for months of last season and his lack of fitness/pace used to make him a complete passenger when he didn't have his shooting boots on. Siggy and Dempsey were phenomenal last season and were good signings. So far neither of them has hit form but it hasn't been that long. They will come good. .

Even on their best days neither of them would lace VDV's boots

Ormus

yiddo59 wrote: »

Even on their best days neither of them would lace VDV's boots

In my opinion VdV wasn't fit to lace their boots for most of last season.

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

In my opinion VdV wasn't fit to lace their boots for most of last season.

difference was VDV was playing with a top 4 side and the 2 lads were playing with average teams. Demspey a good option off the bench but dont see the other lad as an upgrade on even the likes of Krankjar.

mickman

yeah dempsey is no better than niko. he is really slow and he had a very bad touch on saturday.

I reckon he will come good alright - not great, but good.

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

I reckon Caulker would say the same.

You're right, and he has! He’s obviously a very experienced centre-half,” said Caulker. “There are about 15 years between us so he talks me through the games and before the games he settles my nerves as well, so he’s a great person to play alongside.”

On the Dempsey criticism I'm reserving judgement because his lack of a fitness and preseason cannot have helped. I agree with most that the form both Siggy and Dempsey is a worry but I'm not condemning either until they play off Adebayor for 90mins (Vdv had the luxury of the big man to paly off for most of the season).

Both Friedel and Gallas should be on the bench. Lloris comes off his line. Brad is usually rooted which gives the opposition a lot of space in behind centre halves for strikers to run into. Kaboul is out until Christmas so for me Naughton should be back in for the next game and Vertz to take on the captaincy.

Ormus

yiddo59 wrote: »

difference was VDV was playing with a top 4 side and the 2 lads were playing with average teams. Demspey a good option off the bench but dont see the other lad as an upgrade on even the likes of Krankjar.

Playing for a top 4 side does not make it ok to go missing so often in games. VdV had some nice touches and scored some great goals for us, but we are a much better team without him.

DubPerryman

Ormus wrote: »

Kaboul is the man we need to replace Gallas.

Not necessarily. I may be splitting hairs but Vertonghen will replace Gallas - as the leader and organiser at the back. Caulker and Kaboul will fight it out to play alongside Vertonghen.

I think I mentioned before the season started that Gallas will start centre back alongside Vertonghen. People that Kaboul should have started, but I think his injury was a blessing in disguise, as it allowed Vertonghen to learn from Gallas before taking on the mantle - it's only a pity that BAE's and Naughton's injury came shortly after, pushing Vertz out to the left.

In a full strength team you may see this as the back four -

Kaboul -Caulker - Vertonghen - BAE

Pace and strength throughout. Hopefully AVB won't stand for Walker's errors and will see Kaboul as competition. If that back four had time to gel, over a couple of years it could become very very good.

Ormus

mickman wrote: »

yeah dempsey is no better than niko. he is really slow and he had a very bad touch on saturday.

I reckon he will come good alright - not great, but good.

Niko was a better passer than Dempsey but Dempsey is a better goal scorer, better in the air, better tackler, far far better work rate, and easily as fast as Niko.

I'm not saying he will ever be great, but he will be good.

Ormus

DubPerryman wrote: »

Not necessarily. I may be splitting hairs but Vertonghen will replace Gallas - as the leader and organiser at the back. Caulker and Kaboul will fight it out to play alongside Vertonghen.

I think I mentioned before the season started that Gallas will start centre back alongside Vertonghen. People that Kaboul should have started, but I think his injury was a blessing in disguise, as it allowed Vertonghen to learn from Gallas before taking on the mantle - it's only a pity that BAE's and Naughton's injury came shortly after, pushing Vertz out to the left.

In a full strength team you may see this as the back four -

Kaboul -Caulker - Vertonghen - BAE

Pace and strength throughout. Hopefully AVB won't stand for Walker's errors and will see Kaboul as competition. If that back four had time to gel, over a couple of years it could become very very good.

Maybe you're right, maybe AVB will see Kaboul as an option at right back. I hope he chooses to persevere with Walker though. He is a great athlete and a natural attacking full back. A good manager would be able to teach him how to be a good defender with time. Kaboul is a natural centre half who is capable of doing a job at full back, but will never be as effective going forward.

DubPerryman

Ormus wrote: »

Kaboul is a natural centre half who is capable of doing a job at full back, but will never be as effective going forward.

I agree with this, but I'd like to see Kaboul developed as competition for Walker. Making him a valuable option at RB or CB.

The thing is Walker isn't a great defender, but when we're playing games where we have most the possession (probably 85% of our matches), that won't matter as. For games against the likes of Chelsea and United, I'd like to see Kaboul playing right back.

Walker is not a good option as a full-back when he is faced with off ball runs and passing from the likes of Mata and Hazard.

Ormus

DubPerryman wrote: »

I agree with this, but I'd like to see Kaboul developed as competition for Walker. Making him a valuable option at RB or CB.

The thing is Walker isn't a great defender, but when we're playing games where we have most the possession (probably 85% of our matches), that won't matter as. For games against the likes of Chelsea and United, I'd like to see Kaboul playing right back.

Walker is not a good option as a full-back when he is faced with off ball runs and passing from the likes of Mata and Hazard.

That's true yeah, I think it can be learned though. Hopefully he listens to what Gary Neville tells him when he is with the England squad. If he stays in that squad long enough.

Leinstersqspur

Let us not forget it was Kaboul's run & cross playing in the RB position that created the opportunity for Crouch to fire us into the CL for the first time! In the absence of Corluka he linked up very well with Azza toward the end of that season. It's a nice option to have.

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

Playing for a top 4 side does not make it ok to go missing so often in games. VdV had some nice touches and scored some great goals for us, but we are a much better team without him.

We'll see in May if we are!

mickman

we are not a much better team without vdv - thats for sure

Ormus

Fair enough, it's only my opinion. I think people tend to remember only the good times.

I remember him going missing in big games and barely even noticed him for about 5 months in the middle of last season. He was too slow to play the fast attacking football which suits Spurs, games passed him by a lot of the time.

He was a good finisher and scored his fair share of goals, but I think Dempsey/Siggy will get more once they settle.

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

Fair enough, it's only my opinion. I think people tend to remember only the good times.

I remember him going missing in big games and barely even noticed him for about 5 months in the middle of last season. He was too slow to play the fast attacking football which suits Spurs, games passed him by a lot of the time.

He was a good finisher and scored his fair share of goals, but I think Dempsey/Siggy will get more once they settle.

Hope you're right but can't see it happening at all. VDV according to wiki 24 goals in 63 games wheras Demspsey got 50 in 184 for Fulham so a big leap for him to match VDVs strike rate especially as he's not likely to be a regular starter.

All about opinions though as you said.

Ormus

yiddo59 wrote: »

Hope you're right but can't see it happening at all. VDV according to wiki 24 goals in 63 games wheras Demspsey got 50 in 184 for Fulham so a big leap for him to match VDVs strike rate especially as he's not likely to be a regular starter.

All about opinions though as you said.

True, but if you look at it another way, Dempsey settled slowly but surely in England, scoring more every season, and in the last 2 seasons he has got 36 in 88 games, compared to VdV getting 27 in 76.

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

True, but if you look at it another way, Dempsey settled slowly but surely in England, scoring more every season, and in the last 2 seasons he has got 36 in 88 games, compared to VdV getting 27 in 76.

Still wouldn't lace VDV's boots for me

mickman

Ormus wrote: »

True, but if you look at it another way, Dempsey settled slowly but surely in England, scoring more every season, and in the last 2 seasons he has got 36 in 88 games, compared to VdV getting 27 in 76.

i would say that vdv has had a lot more assists than dempsey

Ormus

mickman wrote: »

i would say that vdv has had a lot more assists than dempsey

Well Spurs get a lot more goals than Fulham so I'd be surprised if he didn't. Dempsey got 7 in the league last season, very respectable.

golfball37

Goals are only a by product. Dempsey cannot control a football and has no pace.

Any comparisons with VdV are frankly an insult.:mad:

Ormus

yiddo59 wrote: »

Still wouldn't lace VDV's boots for me

Haha, ok well if outperforming him on the pitch isn't enough, maybe Rafa will have to just lace his own boots.

Ormus

golfball37 wrote: »

Goals are only a by product. Dempsey cannot control a football and has no pace.

Any comparisons with VdV are frankly an insult.:mad:

Goals are fairly important in football.

You don't score 23 goals in a Premiership season without being able to control a ball.

Dempsey is not quick but he would beat Rafa even with his feet tied together.

mushykeogh

mickman wrote: »

we are not a much better team without vdv - thats for sure

You've changed your tune on VDV, werent you wanting him sold last season?!

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

Haha, ok well if outperforming him on the pitch isn't enough, maybe Rafa will have to just lace his own boots.

Dempsey outperforming VDV on the pitch? If he does for Spurs I'll be a happy man but can't see it happenning. As Bill would say I'll leave it there

Back on topic I think we'll play worse games than we did on Saturday and win. Saturday was a setback but not the end of the world by a long way onwards and upwards.

mickman

mushykeogh wrote: »

You've changed your tune on VDV, werent you wanting him sold last season?!

sold if we replaced him properly - not with clint dempsey

Ormus

mickman wrote: »

sold if we replaced him properly - not with clint dempsey

Who would you have signed?