Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

the guy in the red suit.... time for the talk yet?

Options
2

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Wantobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Wantobe


    Do you think your opinion might change if you had OpinionGuyJnr looking up at you with big questioning eyes? ;)


  • Options
    #33
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    opinion guy wrote: »
    What kids ?
    I'm speaking from my own experience of it.

    Imagine you have some, oh wait... ;)


  • Options
    #34
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Theres more here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus#Controversy_about_deceiving_children


  • Options
    #35
    FloatingVoter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭FloatingVoter


    Once I woke up and discovered my dad was the tooth fairy - it didn't take too long to work out the rest. I asked an older mate point blank and got the truth. I was about 6. So c. 1980.
    I did know one guy who was getting visited by Santa when he was 13 and he wasn't even what I'd class as stupid, just naive - they should know somewhere in-between.


  • Options
    #36
    Squ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Squ


    Rochester wrote: »
    logically how could the big man get to where he has to go all over the world.
    my 9 yr old explaining it to her brother wrote:
    "Children being good all year provides the magic required to deliver presents to all houses.
    Plus the fact that he flies east to west, so has 24 hrs, not just one night of local time.
    The only reason people over the age of 12 don't get visited by Santa any more is they should be good anyway"
    My wife and I just sat there. Mouths agape.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Wantobe wrote: »
    Do you think your opinion might change if you had OpinionGuyJnr looking up at you with big questioning eyes? ;)

    On this subject of santa - no. I'm not soo ancient that I've forgotten my own experiences. I like to think you can have celebratory festive times without you know - all of society collectively lying to kids in order to indulge adult dreams of being kids again.

    On religion - no way no kid of mine is getting indoctrinated into a cult.

    Of course you can't tell a kid everything - but there is no need to create a civilisation wide lie for them either.


  • Options
    #38
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    as opposed to "my parents came up to me and told me there was no man in the red suit - ruined my sense of childhood for years after"

    Listen, every kid on earth goes through this - at least let him find out for himself instead of ruining it for him. Stop worrying about other kids and what they are doing. Don't ruin it for your own kid through worrying about others. Believe me its not going to do any permanent damage when he finds out. Do you hold it agains your own parents, or was your life ruined when you found out? Leave the child to his childhood.

    Why does every kid go throuhg this ?
    Because we set it up so they have to.

    why do people then act surprised that teenagers get all moody ??? You've only been filling their heads full of nonsense for ten years ish and then turn around an go - actually all that cool stuff we told you - all horseshlt - the truth is everything sucks and you need to compete and do better than all your friends for things to suck a bit less.


  • Options
    #39
    Ahava
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ahava


    I found out at the age of 5. My 7 year old sister told me on Christmas day. I remember feeling quite a bit angry at my parents for lying to me and humiliated for having believed. I kept thinking of the letter my parents asked me to write to Santa a few weeks earlier. I'd felt so proud of myself that I was able to write a personal, intimate letter to this "magical being". I trusted that what I wrote would have remained our secret. I felt betrayed when I realised that my parents read it instead...

    Now, I realise that not all kids are as sensitive as I was. But many are. And to us, these kind of lies don't make any sense at all. We see no value in them.

    I can't relate to those who say that once children stop believing in "stories" we tell them, their innocence is gone. How so? Innocence is about having a pure, honest and open heart. It's about being kind and respectful just because you believe in the value of it. It's about allowing yourself to feel vulnerable in front of another human being. This is where the magic of life is, we really (really!) don't need to make up stuff to keep our children innocent.


  • Options
    #40
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Ahava wrote: »
    I can't relate to those who say that once children stop believing in "stories" we tell them, their innocence is gone. How so? Innocence is about having a pure, honest and open heart. It's about being kind and respectful just because you believe in the value of it. It's about allowing yourself to feel vulnerable in front of another human being. This is where the magic of life is, we really (really!) don't need to make up stuff to keep our children innocent.

    IMHO this is nothing to do with concern for the kid and everything to do with the desire of the person saying this to relive their own 'innocence'. Its selfish frankly.


  • Options
    #41
    Ahava
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ahava


    opinion guy wrote: »
    IMHO this is nothing to do with concern for the kid and everything to do with the desire of the person saying this to relive their own 'innocence'. Its selfish frankly.

    Yep, I agree.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Soups123
    Registered Users Posts: 8,972 ✭✭✭Soups123


    My 11 year old hasnt believed for 2 years maybe more, he speaks about it with his mates but he has never said anything. Kids go watch movies, play games etc its all about imagination. I think some kids know but want to keep that imagination in the comfort of there own home where they dont have friends to impress.

    He'll come and tell you when he is good and ready but maybe he wants to enjoy the house and the secretive nature of it all for another year more.

    If he come and asks tell him the truth but until then maybe he's happy knowing with his friends and playing the game with you.


  • Options
    #43
    Wantobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Wantobe


    I found out relatively early that there was no santa, also from older siblings. It didn't bother me all that much but I suppose I was not all that sensitive. I had a great imagination though, and was a voracious reader. I spent days, weeks, years probably, in dream worlds about the Tuatha de Danann, Narnia, all sorts of legends and fairy stories. I used to read things like the Famous Five and pretend I was a runaway on an island and trying to be self- sufficient. My parents did nothing to discourage my dreaming but rather encouraged me to read anything I wanted. It hasn't made me into a dreamer as an adult, funnily enough, I'm more of a pragmatist but I would encourage my children to open their minds and imagination in the same way I did.


  • Options
    #44
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    I've started to worry about this - I have an 11 yr old who firmly believes, and I think he's going to be quite devastated when he finds out. I've been waiting all year for the topic to come up, it hasn't. I always assumed he would eventually ask me directly and I'd tell him, but that isn't happening. I can't find a way to tell him that feels natural and not clumsy, and now we're getting closer to Christmas and I don't want to ruin it:( It's become a real worry, he recently listed Santa as one of his favourite people in a school assignment.


  • Options
    #45
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Squ wrote: »
    My wife and I just sat there. Mouths agape.
    9 yr old explaining it to her brother wrote:
    Children being good all year provides the magic required to deliver presents to all houses.
    Plus the fact that he flies east to west, so has 24 hrs, not just one night of local time.
    The only reason people over the age of 12 don't get visited by Santa any more is they should be good anyway
    Wait till she gets older...
    29 yr old explaining it to her brother wrote:
    I see evidence of God's word being faithful about sin, more faithful than any account of the secular world in respect to human wrongdoing. I see evidence of absolute morality in the world, and I see solid logical reason for the necessity of a Creator, and indeed if that creation is necessary, then this universe, us included was created with an intention, and a purpose. Indeed, I can see the Bible, time and time again being faithful in respect to historical truth in the Near East, and in respect to archaeology. I can see the Bible being faithful in respect to the existence and life of Jesus, I can see the Bible being faithful in respect to the history of the early church, and I can see the importance of the Resurrection in making solid sense of what happened outside Jerusalem all those years ago. In comparison to any other ancient text that exists in the world today, the reality is that the New Testament is textually the most trustworthy on the basis of manuscripts. In Jesus, I see over 300 prophesies in the Old Testament fulfilled. In Jesus, I see a logical resolution to the problem of sin. The Gospel, makes clear sense to me, that's why I defend it. I present God's word, because I'm assured that by believing it, people can come to know the living God by faith.

    I wonder if there's a correlation between adult religiosity and age at which one stopped believing in Santa? ;)

    Note: Second quote is actually taken from a discussion here on Boards.


  • Options
    #46
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Note: Second quote is actually taken from a discussion here on Boards.

    I can guess who said that....


  • Options
    #47
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Wait till she gets older...


    I wonder if there's a correlation between adult religiosity and age at which one stopped believing in Santa? ;)

    I believed in Santa up until about 11 (sort of, my belief came away in layers so when I finally knew for sure it was more of a 'yup - knew it, next' moment than any big revelation) and it hasn't in anyway prevented me from becoming atheist as an adult. If anything it probably helped as I have a good understanding of how sincere belief doesn't mean what you believe in is real, along with first hand experience of very much wanting to believe in something that I know deep down is a fantasy.

    I also knew how to embrace a world that is empty of the thing I used to enjoy believing in, as once I absolutely gave up on any belief in Santa being real, I got to be on the adult side of the divide, which provides a happy confidence and surity that your life is on the right track.


  • Options
    #48
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Why does every kid go throuhg this ?
    Because we set it up so they have to.

    why do people then act surprised that teenagers get all moody ??? You've only been filling their heads full of nonsense for ten years ish and then turn around an go - actually all that cool stuff we told you - all horseshlt - the truth is everything sucks and you need to compete and do better than all your friends for things to suck a bit less.

    just send him out to work and be done with it - tell him money doesn't grow on trees and he'll have to realize life is hard and there is no such thing as fantasy or stupid things like childhood. That should make you happy. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #49
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    opinion guy wrote: »
    On this subject of santa - no. I'm not soo ancient that I've forgotten my own experiences. I like to think you can have celebratory festive times without you know - all of society collectively lying to kids in order to indulge adult dreams of being kids again.

    On religion - no way no kid of mine is getting indoctrinated into a cult.

    Of course you can't tell a kid everything - but there is no need to create a civilisation wide lie for them either.

    It was a pagan holiday before the church hi-jacked it.


  • Options
    #50
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Ahava wrote: »
    Yep, I agree.

    make sure you ban books from your house also - can't have them dealing with that nonsense. They might "imagine" too much. :o:o


  • Options
    #51
    Ahava
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ahava


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    make sure you ban books from your house also - can't have them dealing with that nonsense. They might "imagine" too much. :o:o

    But can you see the difference between self directed imagination (which I agree with Einstein, that it is more important than knowledge) and a made up story that is being fed to a child as the truth?

    In my view, there is nothing wrong with stories (quite the opposite!), as long as they are appreciated for what they are - ideas, not reality.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Ahava wrote: »
    But can you see the difference between self directed imagination (which I agree with Einstein, that it is more important than knowledge) and a made up story that is being fed to a child as the truth?

    In my view, there is nothing wrong with stories (quite the opposite!), as long as they are appreciated for what they are - ideas, not reality.

    so when you are reading your child nursery rhymes or stories from a book from when they were very young, how did your child know that the stories were not real? ARe you saying that they never thought there was a disneyland where mickey and minnie lived, or that black beauty was not real, or any other children's story. I hope you set them straight on that instead of all the nonsense of believe in such things.

    :D

    Let kids be kids. don't ruin it for them because you are afraid of what somebody will say to your kid.


  • Options
    #53
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    just send him out to work and be done with it - tell him money doesn't grow on trees and he'll have to realize life is hard and there is no such thing as fantasy or stupid things like childhood. That should make you happy. :rolleyes:

    Well that would be cruel and unusual punishment. But it probably is a good idea at some point explain to your kids that actually this is the reality for many kids in the world and that we are lucky not to live in such places.
    fishy fishy wrote: »
    It was a pagan holiday before the church hi-jacked it.

    Um....was there a point here ?


  • Options
    #54
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    planetX wrote: »
    I've started to worry about this - I have an 11 yr old who firmly believes, and I think he's going to be quite devastated when he finds out. I've been waiting all year for the topic to come up, it hasn't. I always assumed he would eventually ask me directly and I'd tell him, but that isn't happening. I can't find a way to tell him that feels natural and not clumsy, and now we're getting closer to Christmas and I don't want to ruin it:( It's become a real worry, he recently listed Santa as one of his favourite people in a school assignment.

    *out shopping when you see a santa hut being constructed/christmas decorations/whatever*

    "So, how many people in your class are still doing santa?"
    It might cause a penny to drop or for him to at least get suspicious. If he's in 5th class I might leave it at that and then tell him after Christmas. If he's in 6th class and it's getting closer to christmas/ there's talk of a letter to santa maybe a "But I thought you didn't believe anymore?" or a "Don;t worry, you don't have to play along anymore unless there are small kids around" Just play confused and portray him as having figured it out himself if at all possible. Less embarrassing if he's being given the benefit of the doubt as being the smartypants who worked it out and all that. If that fails you might have to follow in the footsteps of my mum when dealing with my brother...

    My mum was trying to shake the belief of my brother (who would have been almost 12 at the time and very firmly WANTED to believe and was refusing to give up belief). She had tried all the more subtle hints and all that but it actually devolved into a bit of a row eventually with him insisting "BUT. HE. IS. REAL.":mad: and her going "But [name], I just told you, I buy all your presents and put them out. Santa is not real. I eat the mince pie and drink the milk, I buy the presents, not santa!!! :("

    I actually think she picked a good time for it - driving. They didn't have to face each other, probably less embarrassing and less confrontational for my brother due to their relative positions. Good luck with it.


  • Options
    #55
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    miss no stars wrote: »
    My mum was trying to shake the belief of my brother (who would have been almost 12 at the time and very firmly WANTED to believe and was refusing to give up belief). She had tried all the more subtle hints and all that but it actually devolved into a bit of a row eventually with him insisting "BUT. HE. IS. REAL.":mad: and her going "But [name], I just told you, I buy all your presents and put them out. Santa is not real. I eat the mince pie and drink the milk, I buy the presents, not santa!!! :("
    The more I read this thread, the more I'm convinced the same dynamic occurs with born again Christians.


  • Options
    #56
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    planetX wrote: »
    I've started to worry about this - I have an 11 yr old who firmly believes, and I think he's going to be quite devastated when he finds out. I've been waiting all year for the topic to come up, it hasn't. I always assumed he would eventually ask me directly and I'd tell him, but that isn't happening. I can't find a way to tell him that feels natural and not clumsy, and now we're getting closer to Christmas and I don't want to ruin it:( It's become a real worry, he recently listed Santa as one of his favourite people in a school assignment.

    How about renting/streaming some movies, or getting some books, where the characters discuss the fact that Santa doesn't exist or where the parents are seen putting out the presents on Christmas eve. My final confirmation of Santa's lack of existence was when I read What Katy Did, as there is a scene in the book where Katy, her father and aunt put out the presents for her younger siblings on Christmas eve. It's a good way to process the information in private.


  • Options
    #57
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    we're atheists, my son hasn't made up his mind about god - he believes in santa, and monsters though. It's a nice little world, I don't really want to spoil it yet.. just feel like I should before he gets old enough to be embarrassed. He's in 5th class, so maybe after xmas... I never thought it would last this long.


  • Options
    #58
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    iguana wrote: »
    How about renting/streaming some movies, or getting some books, where the characters discuss the fact that Santa doesn't exist or where the parents are seen putting out the presents on Christmas eve. My final confirmation of Santa's lack of existence was when I read What Katy Did, as there is a scene in the book where Katy, her father and aunt put out the presents for her younger siblings on Christmas eve. It's a good way to process the information in private.

    funny you say that, we saw ads for a movie coming up with santa, the easter bunny, jack frost etc in it. I thought even the ad was going to reveal the idea to him. My problem is that I was too good as Santa - ebay helped me amaze him with things only Santa could bring:(


  • Options
    #59
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    Let kids be kids.

    Some kids are very suspicious/questioning/rational by nature tho so insisting there is these make-believe characters wouldn't be letting them be them either. I have a wee man who has never believed in Santa and who even as a toddler looked at us like we had three heads when we tried to describe Santa/tooth fairies/easter bunnies, etc etc. His sister on the other hand would believe anything and her brother loves helping us set up all the make-believe for her and joining in on the whole theatre of it but he's never been fooled for a minute that it's real. I think it really depends on the child rather than being inherent.


  • Options
    #60
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    opinion guy wrote: »
    hahah you were aged.....29 maybe ?? :pac:

    I was more upset when I found out the TaxMan was real..:D


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    SillyMangoX
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭SillyMangoX


    I remember when I was around 8 I was discussing Santa with my parents and my mom asked 'Would you be upset if there was no Santa?' And I, of course, said yes! She didn't asked if I believed or anything like that, just asked if I would be upset if he wasn't around anymore. My poor brother found all the 'To X from Santa' tags in my moms coat pocked when he was 7! He was sworn to secrecy though. I told my mom I didn't believe anymore when I was in 6th class. I had stopped believing maybe 2 years before that but didn't want the nice presents to be gone :P We still do 'Santa' as in I would write a list for my mom to choose what to get me (to save her thinking herself!) and she would leave it out on Christmas eve after I'm in bed. Still keeps some of the spirit of Christmas around :)


Advertisement