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Car check Query
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15-10-2012 5:06pm#1Hi All,
I used one of these online car check websites in 2010 to check a car. The report came back has having no issues ie not an insurance right off and no hp outstanding . I've found out today that the car was an econmical insurance right off since 2009. Do I have any form of redress from the company that supplied the inaccurate report.
Regards,
Scara0
Comments
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Hi All,
I used one of these online car check websites in 2010 to check a car. The report came back has having no issues ie not an insurance right off and no hp outstanding . I've found out today that the car was an econmical insurance right off since 2009. Do I have any form of redress from the company that supplied the inaccurate report.
Regards,
Scara
Funny I was only talking about that very issue to a person over the weekend. Simple answer "maybe" depends on terms and conditions etc., best to contact solicitor or FLAC. BTW economical write off does not mean it can not be driven on the road, only that it costs more to repair than worth, an example can be a car with little damage but full deployment of air bags the labour costs or replacing same can be huge.0 -
Hi All,
I used one of these online car check websites in 2010 to check a car. The report came back has having no issues ie not an insurance right off and no hp outstanding . I've found out today that the car was an econmical insurance right off since 2009. Do I have any form of redress from the company that supplied the inaccurate report.
Regards,
Scara
There is a big difference between a car that has technically been "written off" and one that has been deemed by an insurance company to be "Beyond Economic Repair". The latter can be sold off, usually as scrap and may well legally end up bank on the road after a repair. However a car that has been "Written Off" should never end up back on the road.0 -
HellFireClub wrote: »There is a big difference between a car that has technically been "written off" and one that has been deemed by an insurance company to be "Beyond Economic Repair". The latter can be sold off, usually as scrap and may well legally end up bank on the road after a repair. However a car that has been "Written Off" should never end up back on the road.
But should a car that's had a serious judgement by an insurance company as to be "Beyond Economic Repair" not show up on a car check. If not then bar the HP check what's the point of doing the check?0 -
But should a car that's had a serious judgement by an insurance company as to be "Beyond Economic Repair" not show up on a car check. If not then bar the HP check what's the point of doing the check?
I don't think it should. All it means is that one insurance company has arrived at a conclusion that it is a more economical option to replace the car than to repair it. It could be that the age of the car would dictate that the damage to it wouldn't have to be major in order for the car to be deemed to be "BER" (Beyond Economic Repair).
A car that is "Written off", is considered to be so catastrophically damaged, that it should never return to the road again, however it is then sold for scrap value and you could have a situation where the engine, transmission or other parts of that vehicle could end up being fitted to another car as the parts are sold off to retailers who are looking for parts on the cheap.
The whole area to be honest of what insurance companies release to the public by way of information, via these kind of technical reports, is a very grey area.
For example, you could have a BMW 5 Series worth 30K bought new, within the first year of ownership, the vehicle is involved in a serious collision, and the insurance company settle the repair bill with the repairing garage for 11K. As things currently stand, that kind of information is not included in any of these vehicle history reports, as far as I'm aware. (I could stand corrected on this as I'm not involved in the crash repair/assessing end of the industry anymore), but you would think that this kind of information would be the very thing that would be included in any report on a vehicle.0 -
Hi All,
I used one of these online car check websites in 2010 to check a car. The report came back has having no issues ie not an insurance right off and no hp outstanding . I've found out today that the car was an econmical insurance right off since 2009. Do I have any form of redress from the company that supplied the inaccurate report.
Regards,
Scara
When did you buy the car, when was the insurance write off and when did you do the check? If the insurance write off was close to when you bought it maybe the insurance company hadn't updated the database yet.
As the other have said an economical write off isn't a major issue, it just means that the cost of repair with new parts at main dealer prices is IIRC 40% or 50% of the current value. It can be perfectly repaired by any monkey handy with a few tools and plenty of time using 2nd hand parts and sold on for a nice profit, so if it was repaired by a garage it'll be fine.
You don't say if you bought private or dealer. But the 1st question you always need to ask when buying from anyone is "Has it ever been in a crash or repaired?" A dealer has to inform you of previous history, that they are aware of, but a private seller only has to tell you if asked.0 -
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Im pretty sure you will find the website will have a disclaimer in its T&Cs. The problem is that they get their information from the insurance database and insurance companies can be very slow to update this. Like the last poster said you probably checked through the website before the insurance database was updated and therefore the information didnt show up. If you do one of these checks and it comes back "clean" there really is no guarantee that it will still be "clean" in 6 months time.
If you purchase from a private seller and he denies any damage to the car when specifically asked the question, then you have some redress. If you purchase from a garage bear in mind they will be using the same car check sites as this and they may not get up todate information.
Unfortunately this means that when you sell the car and you are asked this question you will have to give this information. The car will most likely be worth less than you paid. It might be worth getting an engineers report done (if you can afford it, they are about €200) and it will tell what condition the vehicle is in structurally and will give a guide on its current value.
It isnt illegal to put cars in this category write off back on the road but my concerns would be who carried out the repairs and was it a good job.0 -
I had the check done before purchase in June 2010. The insurance claim was done in 2009 . So I don't think time is the issue. It seems to me that the information would never be added to the report as beyond economical repair is not deemed important to add to a cars history only written off.
I brought private who said the car had not been hit. This come down to my word against there's I suppose.
The annoying thing in all this is a insurance agent was able to tell me this information but it did not show up in the check.
So I'm basically looking at he option now of keeping the car for another few years then scrapping it myself, as the car has a passed nct I should think its safe.0 -
I had the check done before purchase in June 2010. The insurance claim was done in 2009 . So I don't think time is the issue. It seems to me that the information would never be added to the report as beyond economical repair is not deemed important to add to a cars history only written off.
I brought private who said the car had not been hit. This come down to my word against there's I suppose.
The annoying thing in all this is a insurance agent was able to tell me this information but it did not show up in the check.
So I'm basically looking at he option now of keeping the car for another few years then scrapping it myself, as the car has a passed nct I should think its safe.
Have you done another check? Category C write offs are definitely added, I'm 100% sure of that. It usually is a time delay. Insurance companies can be very slow to update. The insurance agent perhaps got the info from the database which was updated and probably a new car check would show the write off now.
If you know where the seller lives you could investigate the possibility of legal action. Can I ask what made you get the agent to check, or was it something that you came across by chance?0 -
Have you done another check? Category C write offs are definitely added, I'm 100% sure of that. It usually is a time delay. Insurance companies can be very slow to update. The insurance agent perhaps got the info from the database which was updated and probably a new car check would show the write off now.
If you know where the seller lives you could investigate the possibility of legal action. Can I ask what made you get the agent to check, or was it something that you came across by chance?
There is no possibility of legal action against a private seller. The vehicle is bought as it is, OP, you should have brought a reputable mechanic with you to inspect the car before you bought it, that's the time to spot crash damage which a professional eye will usually be able to spot, before you part with your cash. The only time something like this could be actionable in terms of the law, would be if the buyer was sold a stolen car, and usually it's impossible to find the seller then as the situation was one of fraud.
To be honest, there is nothing wrong with a crashed car once it has been properly repaired to the original specification, whether it was BER at one stage in time or not. The car has passed an NCT, if you sold the car in the morning, you'd probably still get market value for it.
As someone in the trade, I think the question of whether a car has been crashed or not, is really secondary to the question of whether it has been returned to it's original specification or not. I fully understand that people obviously do not want to be buying a car that has been crashed, and the time to determine that these days is with a competent tradesperson who "may" be able to find evidence of a repair. These days, you really need to be going into these things with your eyes open and armed with a specialist of sorts to give you the best chance of insulating yourself from these kind of transactions.
However, as in the current case, if you didn't do that, and got sold a car that was not as it was described, (yet was exactly as how it was presented), then the focus should move past the transaction and on to the quality of the repair job. If a car has been properly repaired in line with OE specification, then it being crashed previously, I think is just academic.
Just to add, I used to be a motor accessor but have been out of that end of the industry for a good few years and I do not trade in, buy, sell or have anything to do with the car sales end of the industry.0 -
The misses scraped another car and I've had to put a claim in against the insurance to fix the other car and the panel on mine. Small potatoes really but still wasn't nice to find out the state the car had been in before from the insurance agent. Only thing is car has never given any issues and been into garage without any mechanic mentioning it was crashed repaired and I know the mechanic really well . (he normally examines the cars for me but was away for this one). So have to suppose that a good job was done on the repairs.
Just still annoys me that I did a back ground check that in my case wasn't a total waste as I got the financial side but close enough.0 -
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Obviously, we're not allowed to give legal advice on this forum, but we can take a look.
Scara, could you put a copy of your original background check up on this thread, so that we can take a look at it? You might delete personal and registration details, to spare the mods.
Questions for you:
1. What did you pay for the car?
2. Do you now know what the correct market value of the car should have been at the time you bought the car, given that it had been damaged but (presumably) subsequently repaired?
3. Do you know the monetary amount of the damage that was done to the car when it was written off?
(I am just wondering about the amount of loss, if any).0 -
The Mustard wrote: »Obviously, we're not allowed to give legal advice on this forum, but we can take a look.
Scara, could you put a copy of your original background check up on this thread, so that we can take a look at it? You might delete personal and registration details, to spare the mods.
Questions for you:
1. What did you pay for the car?
2. Do you now know what the correct market value of the car should have been at the time you bought the car, given that it had been damaged but (presumably) subsequently repaired?
3. Do you know the monetary amount of the damage that was done to the car when it was written off?
(I am just wondering about the amount of loss, if any).
The car wasn't written off, it was deemed to be beyond economic repair, two completely different things.
Also, the price the OP paid for the car is irrelevant. They bought it sold as seen, in their capacity as a private buyer, from a private seller. It's a case of buyer beware I'm afraid.0 -
HellFireClub wrote: »The car wasn't written off, it was deemed to be beyond economic repair, two completely different things.
Also, the price the OP paid for the car is irrelevant. They bought it sold as seen, in their capacity as a private buyer, from a private seller. It's a case of buyer beware I'm afraid.
I agree. I bought a pig in a poke. Tough for me . The bit that got me annoyed is that the car check either does not or did show up any of this .0 -
I agree. I bought a pig in a poke. Tough for me . The bit that got me annoyed is that the car check either does not or did show up any of this .
But there is LOADS of stuff that it also doesn't show up, for example a service/maintenance history, etc. Just take an example, a driver has a very minor accident that requires a headlamp & front grille replacement, say someone reverses into him, so he puts it through the other policyholders insurance for payment purposes.
The record of the incident, insofar as data goes, it recorded against the car registration number.
The car is repaired in line with an OE specification.
Should the car be condemned as a "crashed car", because there is a record of a repair? Don't forget, many people will not know the difference between one kind of a repair and another, (if the cost of repair figures are not provided), they'll just see an incident and walk away from the car on the basis that there is a record there. This is why insurance companies will not provide this kind of data, people a lot of the time if not the vast majority of the time, can genuinely be too stupid to use it...0 -
HellFireClub wrote: »The car wasn't written off, it was deemed to be beyond economic repair, two completely different things.
I'm being a bit pedantic in arguing this point raised by you, because I don't think it matters a whole lot in the scenario outlined by the OP. However, a car which is written off is a car where the cost of repair is more than the pre-accident value of the car. So if a car has a pre-accident value of €10,000 and is in an accident and the value of the car after the accident (scrap value) is €1,000, then the loss to the car owner is €9,000. The cost of repair might be €15,000 in that instance. That car is then considered to be a write-off, because the cost of repair is greater than the amount of the damage. (€15k > €9k). The car is written off. This is an accounting term, really. It is used by insurance companies a lot. In this instance, the car would also be beyond economic repair, in any man's language.
Did you mean a situation where a certificate of destruction has issued for a particular car?? That would be a situation where a car should not get back on the road.HellFireClub wrote: »Also, the price the OP paid for the car is irrelevant. They bought it sold as seen, in their capacity as a private buyer, from a private seller. It's a case of buyer beware I'm afraid.
The OP asks if there is an action against the company that produced the report. He hasn't asked about the seller of the vehicle.
The first question that has occurred to me is whether there is any loss to the OP? If so, how much is it? If there is no loss, there is no case to be made in negligence.
After that, we could ask if the car report people were negligent in producing the report, and if the OP suffered loss as a result of that negligence.
This is all basic, first principles stuff.0
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