Mold in apartment - normal in Ireland??

Dawoud

Hi guys,

I have a little story I'd like to tell you and I would love to hear your opinion..

So, my girlfriend and I moved to a new apartment complex of 10 apartments in Swords around the start of June 2012, the apartment itself consist of a bedroom and bathroom, living room and kitchen in one with a small balcony with access from the living room. We live on 1st floor and have an penthouse apartment on top who has a much larger balcony which covers the most of our living room and kitchen.

Saturday last week we then packed our bags and headed of on holidays and returned this Saturday 13th October to quite a shock. All windows had a "nice" little layer of mold along the side, the same for along the balcony door. The wall behind our bed was covered in spots.

Sunday, today my GF gave the landlord a call to update her on the situation, "unfortunately" she didn't have time to talk and hung up. Around 5 PM the management company called her back asking if she could come by and see the damages for herself. They then agreed to meet at 7PM.



When she came, we went to take a look at the apartment, she quickly became very annoyed saying and I quote “I can’t believe you called me out on a Sunday evening for this” “you are over exaggerating, it is a normal thing for Irish homes to have mold, you don’t know what you are talking about”


We then asked for a possibility to get the deposit back as we do not want to live under such circumstances which was first denied completely (our contact states 30 days notice in order to receive a full refund of the deposit). However she did agree to get some cleaners to come and remove this mold on Thursday.


15 minutes after she left, she called back stating the following “I have now spoken to your landlord and she has agreed to give you the full deposit back if you move all your stuff out of the apartment by Wednesday” (this gives us 2 days in total to empty the apartment)


Fortunately for us we have some friends which have a spare room we were able to borrow over the next few days, so we are currently in full speed of getting everything packed.


UNfortunately for us the mold was not just on walls and the ceiling, this has also spread to the closets where it has infected most of our clothes, bags etc. currently we have had to throw out 3-4 black bags with clothes which were completely molded.


I am currently furious of the treatment we have received from the landlord, (which still haven’t called back, and the management company for being so ignorant)


So my question is really what can we do in such instance where, not just our health is at risk, but clothes has been destroyed and we’ll have to move in such short notice?


(I kinda have to note, that our landlord has so far not registered us with the PRTB, and has so far only agreed to pick up the rent in cash each month)


All help is highly appreciated.

Pictures can be found here
http://imageshack.us/g/838/bedroom1p.jpg/

StillWaters

Was there never a problem with mould before you went on holidays?

riclad

ITS not normal to have mold in an apartment,
the landlord is breaking the law.
THERES detailed , rules re standard of rental accomodation ,ventilation , proper insulation .
there maybe a leak,, or excess condensation, or
its like many apartments.
SOME were built,thrown up, with bad insulation , walls were not built as to architectural plans ,and most apartments were never inspected ,in the building boom.
if you rent a 100 year old cottage, you might get mold ,due to poor ventilation.
You could probably complain to prtb,if you have receipts,
proof that you stayed there as tenants, and ask for compensation for damage to clothes, but my advice is move out ,get your deposit.
Mold usually indicates bad insulation,or bad ventilation
or both.
mold may have appeared, windows were all closed ,
heating was off for 2 weeks.
And weather has become colder in the last 3 weeks.

Dawoud

StillWaters wrote: »

Was there never a problem with mould before you went on holidays?

not that we knew of at all..

Dawoud

riclad wrote: »

ITS not normal to have mold in an apartment,
the landlord is breaking the law.
THERES detailed , rules re standard of rental accomodation ,ventilation , proper insulation .
there maybe a leak,, or excess condensation, or
its like many apartments.
SOME were built,thrown up, with bad insulation , walls were not built as to architectural plans ,and most apartments were never inspected ,in the building boom.
if you rent a 100 year old cottage, you might get mold ,due to poor ventilation.
You could probably complain to prtb,if you have receipts,
proof that you stayed there as tenants, and ask for compensation for damage to clothes, but my advice is move out ,get your deposit.
Mold usually indicates bad insulation,or bad ventilation
or both.
mold may have appeared, windows were all closed ,
heating was off for 2 weeks.
And weather has become colder in the last 3 weeks.

that was my first thought, now a little update for u.

Management company, on behalf of the landlord, was agreeing to the deposit back, however we then attempted to contact the landlord all day yesterday, we received a reply 00.15 from the landlord saying she is not going to be there to pay the deposit, but she will send her mom on her behalf. As the contract is with the landlord we were hoping she will show up so she could sign a simple document stating we would end the lease early. So lets see what will happen later when will meet.

murphaph

riclad wrote: »

ITS not normal to have mold in an apartment,
the landlord is breaking the law.
THERES detailed , rules re standard of rental accomodation ,ventilation , proper insulation .
there maybe a leak,, or excess condensation, or
its like many apartments.
SOME were built,thrown up, with bad insulation , walls were not built as to architectural plans ,and most apartments were never inspected ,in the building boom.
if you rent a 100 year old cottage, you might get mold ,due to poor ventilation.
You could probably complain to prtb,if you have receipts,
proof that you stayed there as tenants, and ask for compensation for damage to clothes, but my advice is move out ,get your deposit.
Mold usually indicates bad insulation,or bad ventilation
or both.
mold may have appeared, windows were all closed ,
heating was off for 2 weeks.
And weather has become colder in the last 3 weeks.

Most buildings in Ireland, even brand new ones, don't have air exchangers (common enough in the US, for example) and can become mouldy if they are not ventilated properly.

The causes of mould have caused court cases in Germany. It is rarely easy to say who is responsible for sure.

BostonB

Theres a number of possibilities with mould.

People not ventilating the space.
A leak.
A design or building fault.

amdublin

Seriously

Were you storing your clothes on the window sill??

The pictures you have shown have a small amount of mould. Which in my opinion needed a good scrub to get rid of it, and then the room to be aired every day I.e. Windows to be left open for a period.

You have not shown any picture of the wardrobes...

From what you have shown IMO you have completely over reacted.

BostonB

Didn't see the photos. Thats not much mould. Did it really appear in a week? The first photo seem to show a water bloom/stain from a leak, or a pool of water from constant condensation or similar.

odds_on

See posts #18 and #19

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056351823&page=2

tony81

The past week has been very cold and damp. If you didn't air the room before you left, and didn't ensure the heat was set to come on for at least an hour a day while you were away you may expect a small amount of mould.
It's quite easy to clean. Spray with bleach containing mould killer and wipe 2 minutes later. And keep the room warm, dry and well ventilated in future.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Dawoud

For you who think I am overreacting I have to say overreaction or not, Mould is super toxic and I am definetely not sleeping in such.



It might be hard to see on the last picture but the wall is completely COVERED in spots, furthermore one of the closets in the bedroom has so much mold on the inside, that when you start scrabing it off you'll can see the spores be released like a tiny little smoke.. its DISGUSTING!..

And for you's who are not aware of the health risks associated with indoor mold

http://epi.publichealth.nc.gov/oii/mold/healtheffects.html

Outkast_IRE

if you get any black spots thats a bad sign, i have no allergies really but last year i was in an apartment with a similar problem, within an hour i was finding it hard to breath and had to stay calm until my throat opened up to normal size again.
The person living there was constantly having to clear their throat and had runny nose.

The mold was only a few small spots in a few rooms but it was bad enough to casue issues like that, take no chances where mold and damp are concerned.

As long as you werent doing anything silly like drying clothes indoors etc you should not have mold.

Dawoud

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

The mold was only a few small spots in a few rooms but it was bad enough to casue issues like that, take no chances where mold and damp are concerned.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Outkast_IRE

Dawoud wrote: »

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Its also worth saying alot of irish doctors are clueless in the matter, the other girl who lived in the same apartment was having breathing problems , which she never had before, and her doctor tried to tell her it was from pet hair ( guinea pigs) which my girlfriend kept in her bedroom and werent let out anywhere else in the apartment.
The doctor didnt think the mold would casue asthma like symptoms.:rolleyes:

When the girlfriend moved out with the pets, she still suffered with it, when she eventually left the apartment within a month her issues were after clearing up. Mold is serious stuff if buying a home in ireland its one thing i wouldnt accept under any circumstances. Worst is alot of landlords think a lick of paint over its acceptable.

amdublin

I get mould all the time in my house

I just wash it off with a bleach mould-specific type of liquid I buy in the hardware.

I then vow to air my house more. I do this for a few weeks and then discontinue. Few months later I get mould.

And the circle begins again.

Seriously Dawoud - could you not just have washed it off?

Dawoud

amdublin wrote: »

I get mould all the time in my house

I just wash it off with a bleach mould-specific type of liquid I buy in the hardware.

I then vow to air my house more. I do this for a few weeks and then discontinue. Few months later I get mould.

And the circle begins again.

Seriously Dawoud - could you not just have washed it off?

Well thats good for you, and you just continue during that if you feel that suits your needs.

Yea, I could just have washed it off and left it as it is, but I've seen how mould can, sorry for my language, **** your health up and I am not taking that chance what so ever.

Furthermore amdublin, is your jackets and bags showing clear signs of mold after a couple of months? And if so, do you wash this off with your bleach chemicals??

amdublin

Dawoud wrote: »

Furthermore amdublin, is your jackets and bags showing clear signs of mold after a couple of months? And if so, do you wash this off with your bleach chemicals??

No, because I clean the mould before it spreads

shoegirl

Thats seriously freaky, looks like there is some kind of ventilation or structural problem with the building. Write to the council so they can inspect it - they are entitled to inspect rented properties. Not sure what Fingal are like but I know other councils will declare a place substandard if its gathering mould at that rate and order the owner to fix the problems by a certain date.

There is definitely something wrong, its not probably the landladies fault, but she is not entitled to rent out a substandard property without remediating serious problems.

strandroad

amdublin wrote: »

Seriously

Were you storing your clothes on the window sill??

The pictures you have shown have a small amount of mould. Which in my opinion needed a good scrub to get rid of it, and then the room to be aired every day I.e. Windows to be left open for a period.

You have not shown any picture of the wardrobes...

From what you have shown IMO you have completely over reacted.

Mould is not at all common outside Ireland/UK. In continental Europe, where the climate is dryer and building are likely to have central heating (central as in municipal systems turned on 24/7 for half a year) if you see mould like this it can only be in a decrepit building and would be seen as serious health hazard, especially re asthma and allergies.

amdublin wrote: »

No, because I clean the mould before it spreads

But the spores are already in the air and you have inhaled them...

Outkast_IRE

amdublin wrote: »

I get mould all the time in my house

I just wash it off with a bleach mould-specific type of liquid I buy in the hardware.

I then vow to air my house more. I do this for a few weeks and then discontinue. Few months later I get mould.

And the circle begins again.

Seriously Dawoud - could you not just have washed it off?

Honestly your only fooling yourself with this cleaning the mould crack. Do you own this place or rent ? if your rent i would be looking to leave , if you own it then i would be questioning why its happening . Honestly it shouldnt be accepted as normal .

amdublin

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly your only fooling yourself with this cleaning the mould crack. Do you own this place or rent ? if your rent i would be looking to leave , if you own it then i would be questioning why its happening . Honestly it shouldnt be accepted as normal .

Absolutely, it's happening because I'm not airing the place properly.

As an adult I accept that.

I think the op waaaaay over reacted calling his landlord.

amdublin

Dawoud wrote: »

For you who think I am overreacting I have to say overreaction or not, Mould is super toxic and I am definetely not sleeping in such.



It might be hard to see on the last picture but the wall is completely COVERED in spots, furthermore one of the closets in the bedroom has so much mold on the inside, that when you start scrabing it off you'll can see the spores be released like a tiny little smoke.. its DISGUSTING!..

And for you's who are not aware of the health risks associated with indoor mold

http://epi.publichealth.nc.gov/oii/mold/healtheffects.html

Did you read your link btw...it doesn't say it's "super" toxic

From the first paragraph:
"Exposure to mold can occur when airborne mold cells, mostly spores, are inhaled. We breathe in these cells every day, indoors and out. Usually these exposures do not present a health risk. But when exposure is great, some individuals, particularly those with allergies and asthma, can experience illness that could be mild to serious or anywhere in between. The following is a description of the health problems that can be caused by exposure to mold"



What you've pictured is not great exposure IMO so can everyone just chillax!!!!!

Outkast_IRE

I think your understating it, the mould around the windows ok fair enough thats pvc wipe it and clean it regularily and thats ok , i accept that.

However the final photo is of a wall where the obvious black spotting is there indicating mould.

With this type of mould by the time you can make out the spotting etc its already been there a while. I can tell you right now that if i seen that it would be time to start asking questions, and if i was a landlord i would want my tennant to ring me and tell me.

because.
1. if its down to the tenant not ventilating the place when cooking or drying clothes indoors etc its better to nip it in the bud early.
2. if its not down to the tenant then i need to start questioning is the room ventilated enough under normal conditions.
or
3. the worst case is there a problem with the home, is water/moisture either getting in or getting trapped here.

They were dead right to ring the landlord becuase any good landlord wants to know this information to protect his investment.

Also if that black spotting was present it can start causing health issues

strandroad

amdublin wrote: »

Did you read your link btw...it doesn't say it's "super" toxic

From the first paragraph:
"Exposure to mold can occur when airborne mold cells, mostly spores, are inhaled. We breathe in these cells every day, indoors and out. Usually these exposures do not present a health risk. But when exposure is great, some individuals, particularly those with allergies and asthma, can experience illness that could be mild to serious or anywhere in between. The following is a description of the health problems that can be caused by exposure to mold"

What you've pictured is not great exposure IMO so can everyone just chillax!!!!!

I think that living in an enclosed space with an outbreak of mould qualifies as great exposure. Everyday exposure is when you catch some airborne spores walking your dog or going to the shops, not when they sleep or eat several feet away from its base every day and night.

amdublin

mhge wrote: »

I think that living in an enclosed space with an outbreak of mould qualifies as great exposure.

Well I think it certainly qualifies as exposure. So clean it!

Per the link (2nd & 3rd sentence) we breathe these spores (indoor & out) every day - so you see some mould: clean it before it spreads.

strandroad

amdublin wrote: »

Well I think it certainly qualifies as exposure. So clean it!

Per the link (2nd & 3rd sentence) we breathe these spores (indoor & out) every day - so you see some mould: clean it before it spreads.

You can wash it off the wall but it's there with you in the air 24/7, otherwise it wouldn't grow back. Grows inside the walls too, even if you clean the surface. If you're comfortable with this it's your prerogative, but the OP has the right to protect their health...

amdublin

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I think your understating it, the mould around the windows ok fair enough thats pvc wipe it and clean it regularily and thats ok , i accept that.

However the final photo is of a wall where the obvious black spotting is there indicating mould.

With this type of mould by the time you can make out the spotting etc its already been there a while. I can tell you right now that if i seen that it would be time to start asking questions, and if i was a landlord i would want my tennant to ring me and tell me.

because.
1. if its down to the tenant not ventilating the place when cooking or drying clothes indoors etc its better to nip it in the bud early.
2. if its not down to the tenant then i need to start questioning is the room ventilated enough under normal conditions.
or
3. the worst case is there a problem with the home, is water/moisture either getting in or getting trapped here.

They were dead right to ring the landlord becuase any good landlord wants to know this information to protect his investment.

Also if that black spotting was present it can start causing health issues

Would you have a link to your statement about black spotting causing health issues?

I agree: ring your LL and discuss the mould issue I.e. What is the cause?
So as that once it is cleaned you can prevent it happening again: makes sense from a LL and tenant perspective.

Moving out because of it: ott IMO.

amdublin

mhge wrote: »

You can wash it off the wall but it's there with you in the air 24/7, otherwise it wouldn't grow back. Grows inside the walls too, even if you clean the surface. If you're comfortable with this it's your prerogative, but the OP has the right to protect their health...

Dudes did you read the link posted by the op?!


From the first paragraph:
"Exposure to mold can occur when airborne mold cells, mostly spores, are inhaled. We breathe in these cells every day, indoors and out. Usually these exposures do not present a health risk. But when exposure is great, some individuals, particularly those with allergies and asthma, can experience illness that could be mild to serious or anywhere in between. The following is a description of the health problems that can be caused by exposure to mold"



We breathe this stuff all the time....let's not over exaggerate this into an epidemic of mould or something

Merch

So OP,
you were away for a while, the place was locked and sealed up, it was cold recently and Im guessing you didnt heat the property when you were away?
did you leave damp or wet clothes laying around to dry?

Any water vapour in the air (of the now cooling property) which could hold less moisture then condensed on the cold surfaces.

If it was a leak, I'd suggest the mould would be centered in one area, lessening further away from it, but this seems to be everywhere generally.

I saw a situation once where mould was prominent, apparently the tenant blocked the vents to save from having to heat the house locked the windows/didnt open them and turned off all rads.

Result looked like what you show, worst in areas beside shower/bathroom/kitchen.

problem was solved by scrubbing with mould cleaning spray.

I think you unbeknownst to yourself have caused the problem, sorry but it looks that way to me.