Mold in apartment - normal in Ireland??

strandroad

Just google mo(u)ld + health. You can choose not to believe that but it should not be a reason to ridicule OP's valid concerns.

amdublin

mhge wrote: »

Just google mo(u)ld + health. You can choose not to believe that but it should not be a reason to ridicule OP's valid concerns.

I don't believe I have ridiculed the op's concerns

The op came on and asked for some opinions.

I have stated:
I don't think the pictures show much mould.
I think the op could have cleaned it himself.

The op has posted a link which to me does not indicate a a risk with the amount of exposure the op has been exposed to I.e. For a short period there has been a small amount of mould in their prescence.

Outkast_IRE

amdublin wrote: »

Would you have a link to your statement about black spotting causing health issues?

I agree: ring your LL and discuss the mould issue I.e. What is the cause?
So as that once it is cleaned you can prevent it happening again: makes sense from a LL and tenant perspective.

Moving out because of it: ott IMO.

I will dig up about 100 links tommorow when i have time, that spotting is to the naked eye the exact same as what caused my own personal reaction of shortness of breath etc..... the other people who lived there had breathing problems too its only when they moved out they cleared up.

I can say from personal experience that it doesnt take much mould at all to cause such issues. Like you suggested the bleach cleaning does work ....... for a time but your only fooling yourself if you think bleaching your walls are normal.

If your living in the building and its being normally heated etc and the tenant isnt doing anything wrong mould should not occur end of story.

Even accepting mould on window frames is something i dont like accepting. Im in a well built home over 20 years old and i have not once had to wipe mould from a window frame.

Also its now mid october, if mould is growing at this stage its only going to get worse the deeper into winter we get.

amdublin

Some good advice here IMO:
http://www.campaspe.vic.gov.au/hardcopy/878_191015.pdf

StillWaters

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I think your understating it, the mould around the windows ok fair enough thats pvc wipe it and clean it regularily and thats ok , i accept that.

However the final photo is of a wall where the obvious black spotting is there indicating mould.

With this type of mould by the time you can make out the spotting etc its already been there a while. I can tell you right now that if i seen that it would be time to start asking questions, and if i was a landlord i would want my tennant to ring me and tell me.

because.
1. if its down to the tenant not ventilating the place when cooking or drying clothes indoors etc its better to nip it in the bud early.
2. if its not down to the tenant then i need to start questioning is the room ventilated enough under normal conditions.
or
3. the worst case is there a problem with the home, is water/moisture either getting in or getting trapped here.

They were dead right to ring the landlord becuase any good landlord wants to know this information to protect his investment.

Also if that black spotting was present it can start causing health issues

As a LL you are absolutely right, I'd like my tenant to tell me so we can work out a solution together. But on a Sunday! Broken pipe, smashed windows, ok. But this is not an emergency, and I can see why the LL got the hump tbh.

Dawoud

amdublin wrote: »

Did you read your link btw...it doesn't say it's "super" toxic

From the first paragraph:
"Exposure to mold can occur when airborne mold cells, mostly spores, are inhaled. We breathe in these cells every day, indoors and out. Usually these exposures do not present a health risk. But when exposure is great, some individuals, particularly those with allergies and asthma, can experience illness that could be mild to serious or anywhere in between. The following is a description of the health problems that can be caused by exposure to mold"


What you've pictured is not great exposure IMO so can everyone just chillax!!!!!

First of all, Nowhere did I make a quote of the text I left there, the "super toxic" was my own way of wording it.

Secondly, the link as you might have seen was only for informational purposes and does not, at all, cover all the health risks associated with inhaling mold spores.

Finally whatever the text says, I am still not willing to compromise my GF or my own health by living in such an apartment, the wall itself which shows black spots is our bedroom wall just behind the bed.

Dawoud

Merch wrote: »

So OP,
you were away for a while, the place was locked and sealed up, it was cold recently and Im guessing you didnt heat the property when you were away?
did you leave damp or wet clothes laying around to dry?

Any water vapour in the air (of the now cooling property) which could hold less moisture then condensed on the cold surfaces.

If it was a leak, I'd suggest the mould would be centered in one area, lessening further away from it, but this seems to be everywhere generally.

I saw a situation once where mould was prominent, apparently the tenant blocked the vents to save from having to heat the house locked the windows/didnt open them and turned off all rads.

Result looked like what you show, worst in areas beside shower/bathroom/kitchen.

problem was solved by scrubbing with mould cleaning spray.

I think you unbeknownst to yourself have caused the problem, sorry but it looks that way to me.

Thanks for your suggestion, yes ofc the windows where closed when we left however that should not impact on the apartments ventilation. There were 2 vents, 1 in the living room and 1 in the bedroom. the heating has been turned on while we were away, and there was no wet clothes or similar in the apartment.

Furthermore, I have closely studied the bathroom and hallway, and have been unable to find any indication of mold.
It origins from the bedroom and on both sides of the kitchen and living room floor and ceiling.

Dawoud

StillWaters wrote: »

As a LL you are absolutely right, I'd like my tenant to tell me so we can work out a solution together. But on a Sunday! Broken pipe, smashed windows, ok. But this is not an emergency, and I can see why the LL got the hump tbh.

It's nice to see a LL having joined the discussion. And I do have one question for you, would you not have your tenants have you to call you with any problem about the apartment? I still think its a health risk which should be addressed asap.

As my OP said we came home on a Saturday night and we were waiting until a more appropriate hour to call the LL.

Dawoud

To All, as for the clothing, I presume you will not trying to bleach a jacket as shown within the pictures??

Merch

Don t bleach it but put it thorough a wash according to the instructions at least should help. I wouldnt chuck it out, wash a couple of times.

Are the other (some/all/any) apartments surrounding yours unoccupied permanently.

Maybe an unoccupied apartment has an unnoticed leak of some kind somewhere.

I didnt think the mould looks specific to a location so dont think it is regarding some leak, maybe its the design or maybe you have unwittingly caused this?

I have only seen mould like this in a basement flat where there must have been rising damp and poor heating.
AND
Where a group of people did things that caused it (detailed in a previous reply in this thread)

Did you notice any of this when you moved in? how long ago was this?

listermint

Dawoud wrote: »

Thanks for your suggestion, yes ofc the windows where closed when we left however that should not impact on the apartments ventilation. There were 2 vents, 1 in the living room and 1 in the bedroom. the heating has been turned on while we were away, and there was no wet clothes or similar in the apartment.

Furthermore, I have closely studied the bathroom and hallway, and have been unable to find any indication of mold.
It origins from the bedroom and on both sides of the kitchen and living room floor and ceiling.

Who leaves the heating on while they are away ? I call shenanigans...

Merch

listermint wrote: »

Who leaves the heating on while they are away ? I call shenanigans...

Im a bit suspicious of this myself, I may consider letting heating come on when away, but I'd weigh that with the benefits and disadvantages eg if there was a leak in the heating.

I've never come across a tenant leaving heating on when away,
as all this does is protect the property (and costs the resident money, so no benefit longterm to them).

There is the possibility that the roof/balcony above them is leaking across an area and/or that this roof is not well insulated, but it looks very much like general mould growth caused when a place is cold and there is something allowing moisture in the property to not escape.

Id get the landlord to do a bit of an investigation and Id be informing the management company as the landlord pays them for this.

I still think it looks like mould from cooking/habitation/bad ventilation and not being heated, either by a blocked vent (intentional/poor design or by accident coverage, ie plant growth?).

Ive seen mould from a leak and it develops worse than that at the point of the leak and spreads out

murphaph

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

If your living in the building and its being normally heated etc and the tenant isnt doing anything wrong mould should not occur end of story.

Not properly ventilating is doing something wrong and it is the likely cause here IMO.

I rent a house out. I lived in it myself for almost 10 years and never saw a spot of mould. The first winter of it being rented out saw mould in the bathroom. The tenant simply never opened the bathroom window to let the moisture laden air out.

That was the tenant's fault, no the building's. Mould can be treated quite easily with bleach containing sprays and then the property must be ventilated PROPERLY to prevent it coming back.

Proper ventilation doesn't mean leaving windows open all day, indeed this is likely to cause mould problems before it'll resolve them. The German authorities recommend 10 minutes wide open windows in the morning (in bedrooms) and similar treatment of bathrooms after use to equalise air moisture content quickly and to prevent too much energy being lost from the building.

Wehen we get up (even if it's -10 outside) we gather our clothes that we'll need to put on after showering and bring them to the hall. We then open the bedroom window wide and close the bedroom door and go shower. We dress in the next room (where it's still warm) and then we go in and close the bedroom window.

We had mould issues in the bedroom 3 years ago and had to clean with bleach etc. We haven't had any problems since and the insulation isn't the best (building dates from 1904) and we have an exterior wall in our bedroom too. Ventilation is the key. Quote from a random German online magazine related to homes:

Bei dem Wetter möchte man einfach zuhause warm einheizen, sich einkuscheln und nie mehr rausgehen. Doch frische Luft muss auch bei bitterer Kälte sein – sonst droht Schimmelbefall

Roughly:
During Winter one wants to just stay inside cozy warm and not to go out again. However, there must be fresh air even when it's bitter cold, otherwise there's a threat of mould.

Source

To be honest, it was a culture shock to me coming from Ireland to see people opening their windows wide with sub zero temperatures but it's the right thing to do.

StillWaters

Dawoud wrote: »

It's nice to see a LL having joined the discussion. And I do have one question for you, would you not have your tenants have you to call you with any problem about the apartment? I still think its a health risk which should be addressed asap.

As my OP said we came home on a Saturday night and we were waiting until a more appropriate hour to call the LL.

Of course I want my tenants to call me if any problems arise. And I have been called on Sunday's for emergencies, and in turn got emergency plumbers out. But I don't think this classifies as an emergency. It sounds like more than an informative phone call was made, more like a fuss and insistence a visit was made that day? There also seems to be a letting agent involved who you were unable to contact.

What could the LL do on a Sunday? If you were my tenant, and went through the channels on the monday, ie called the letting agent, who then called me. Together we would ascertain whether this was caused by your actions or was my responsibility. If mine I'd get a specialist on it. It's probably caused by the balcony upstairs, but impossible for us to say for certain.

If you were my tenant I would be annoyed and probably do what your LL has done, assume you are a high maintenance tenant, and agree to paying you your full deposit if you move out ASAP.

MMAGirl

I've had the exact same problem as the OP before.
Never a problem in 5 years in the house.
Then I dried some clothes on the rad, put them away and then locked up and went away for a couple of weeks. When I came home there was mold in the wardrobe and on the widows and walls.
Drying clothes on rads is a sure way to get mold.

We cleaned it off and since have only had it once when I dodnt dry clothes properly in the dryer and decided to let them dry the rest of the way in the wardrobe. Big mistake.

BostonB

Drying on a rad is ok if the room is ventilated. But also as you say you have to make sure things are dry before putting them away.

Merch

I had wondered if the OP had left clothes on the rads, damp, then left, heating not on, property cools and has extra moisture laden air, which condenses on the cool surfaces, I am mostly thinking this is the OPs fault.

I really think if the heating was on low and the standard vents are open and not blocked then really its a situation where less moisture will exist than when a person/people are present. But is it really realistic that someone left the heating on when they were away?? in a rented place?
So
either one of those things didnt happen or there is some obvious leak somewhere and this is the source of the moisture, mould generally around the place apparently not specific to some leak can only be if the OP introduced some extra source of moisture.

So OP, did you dry clothes or do something before or when you were away?
I think this is the source.

Dawoud

wow wow wow, before you guys get ahead of yourself in relation to the heating.

Its electrical and has a timer to swich on and off, it was turned on a few hours in the morning and a few at night time.

So to answer, I believe everybodys question, I have not dried any clothes on the heater as, and correct me if I am wrong, no. 1 fire catcher??

MMAGirl

BostonB wrote: »

Drying on a rad is ok if the room is ventilated. But also as you say you have to make sure things are dry before putting them away.

Its never ok to dry clothes on a Rad.
Risk it if you like, you might get away with it, but its asking for mold, ventilated or not.

Its the constant loading of the air with water vapour and then cooling that produces the conditions for mold.
Its also, believe it or not, caused by excessive heat in the day and then turning the heating off at night.

I think everyone should have a dehumidifier. Especially useful to leave on when going on hols in the winter.

And all apartments should have positive ventilation units fitted. If they dont then I wouldnt rent them. Even large apartments have much too small a volume to absorb moisture created in a day. They need help ventilating the moisture laden air that is produced by life in general.

Something like this needs to be in all apartments.
http://www.nuaire.co.uk/product/flat

BostonB

MMAGirl wrote: »

Its never ok to dry clothes on a Rad.
Risk it if you like, you might get away with it, but its asking for mold, ventilated or not....

Your problem was some of the clothes weren't fully dry before putting them in a cupboard.

Thats said you can't stick a washing load of clothes on a radiator close doors and windows and not have a problem. However on a well spaced rack/clothes hourse in a well ventilated room I've not had a problem ever. But I've always lived in a house where you can open windows on both sides of a house and create airflow through a room.

In an apartment it wouldn't work. As you can't do that usually.

thetwodubs

i live in a basement apartment for just over 2 years now. we moved in july 2012.
after a couple of months we noticed some of our clothes & shoes were covered in mould & contacted our landlord.
he arrived the following day & hammered nails in the bottom of the wardrobes to stop the door from fully closing & told us the mould was caused by lack of air as the apartment was actually too Airtight & too well insulated.
we washed what clothing we could & i took steps to clean shoes, handbags, weekend bags etc, with rubbing alcohol after first brushing the mould off with a bristle brush. i washed clothes that could be washed first with a cup of white vinegar, as instructed on a page i found when i googled mould removal. After the vinegar rinse i washed with detergent as usual & dried the clothes outside.
the molud appeared to be gone, then reappeared a couple of weeks later.
i had to throw out clothes, shoes, handbags, belts etc.
i bought a fabric wardrobe & hung my clothes in that but after a while clothes began to have mould on them again & my shoes were ruined.
i constantly battled with removing the mould with rubbing alcohol & vinegar, in particular really expensive shoes & designer bags but despite not putting anything away without airing them first & purchasing the wardrobe & a chest of drawers all my clothing smelled musty also towels & bedlinen.
at the end of last year i developed nasty lumps all over my legs, arms & torso & went to my doctor & i had blood tests done & after a couple of days, to cut a long story short, the lab results confirmed i had very elevated allergens & antibodies to mould.
i moved back to my family home while my partner remained in the apartment, & i stayed a couple of days in the week.
the lumps are as bad as ever & on advice from my GP, everything i brought from that apartment i washed first & treated, then isolated them from other clothing by storing them in a wardrobe in my spare room.
our landlord has told us, if we don't like the apartment or it's affecting my health, then Leave!
i would love to know where we stand legally & if i can be compensated for the thousands of €'s lost on our belongings because of the mould.
this apartment is in my partners name & rent is paid by direct debit!
we havent had a contract since july 2nd 2013, when the first original contract expired. we don't have a registration with the private rentals board & never have.
can anyone tell us if we have any comeback or entitled to compensation of any kind?

NGC999888

I was in an apartment for 3 years.
Always dried clothes in the drier.
Girlfriend moved in with me and started drying clothes on a clothes horse.
Within a week there was mould at the back of the wardrobe and at the bottom of the walls.
Within 2 weeks it was all over the walls and on the ceiling.
I painted the place and it was back in a month.
Well we didnt get on too well after moving in together and she moved out after 5 months and within a week of that, the mould was starting to go. I painted the place again and it never came back again for the next 2 years i lived there.

Drying clothes, be it on a rad or on a clothes horse is asking for mould. Even if you open the windows often.

riclad

There,s regulations ,re ventilation,
in rental house,s and flats.
IF The building is inspected by the council, they will recommend changes
and new ventilation be installed as necessary .
MY friend is a landlord was told by council put in a new slot 7 x5 inch in apartment wall ground floor .
Unit is 10 years old.cost her 100 euro to fix it.
A few holes drilled ,new vent unit put in.
it can be called by bad insulation, or lack of insulation in exterior walls .
warm air can cause condensation on a cold wall.

_oveless_

I dont even have ventilation in the bedroom of my flat, theres a "vent" where the chimney used to be but behind it the chimney is blocked! keeping the window open is only an option while the weather is still mild and not an ideal solution in the long term, and tips on what I can do to avoid mould/damp?

shruikan2553

_oveless_ wrote: »

I dont even have ventilation in the bedroom of my flat, theres a "vent" where the chimney used to be but behind it the chimney is blocked! keeping the window open is only an option while the weather is still mild and not an ideal solution in the long term, and tips on what I can do to avoid mould/damp?

I was in same situation last year, keeping the window open isn't really that practical during the winter so now I bought a dehumidifier. Cost me about 35 euro. Can't tell you how well it works yet though but it should be quite effective.

Diane Selwyn

dehumidifier is your best bet - you can also get a thing called a moisture trap that uses crystals to draw the moisture out of the air I got some from a camping supplies shop a few years ago when I had an issue with it. I found that the mould seemed particularly attracted to darker coloured clothing as well as to leather and suede so make sure these are stored where there is plenty of air circulating if possible.

Thargor

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

dehumidifier is your best bet - you can also get a thing called a moisture trap that uses crystals to draw the moisture out of the air I got some from a camping supplies shop a few years ago when I had an issue with it. I found that the mould seemed particularly attracted to darker coloured clothing as well as to leather and suede so make sure these are stored where there is plenty of air circulating if possible.

They're in Aldis right now, special offers from yesterday:

https://www.aldi.ie/en/specialbuys/sunday-31-august/products-detail-page/ps/p/moisture-trap-with-refill/

€10 off voucher in yesterdays Independent aswell.

I had success with these before, different design, same principle. Aldi sell the refills aswell but I reactivated mine a couple of times on low heat in the oven with the door open (and the outside door of the kitchen open aswell so I wasnt just releasing all the moisture back into the house).

Ventilation is key though.