Gareth Bale: Overhyped or The Real Deal?

Jimmy Iovine

Super-Rush wrote: »

Who is better than him?

Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Mata, Silva, Ibrahimovic, Aguero, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria, Suarez, Xavi, Cavani, Tevez.

...and that's it!

Liam O

Falcao too, big fan of SES at Milan but probably not quite at Bale's level despite carrying Milan a lot this season at 20

Super-Rush

Yes I forgot Falcao.

Lennonist

Potentially the Real Deal

I've put Bale in my fantasy football team so he is now officially the real deal.

Cienciano

Potentially the Real Deal

Super-Rush wrote: »

Who is better than him?

Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Mata, Silva, Ibrahimovic, Aguero, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria, Suarez, Xavi , Cavani, Tevez.

I'd agree with Ronaldo, Zlatan and the 3 barca players (even though comparing Xavi with Bale is impossible) but as attacking players go, Rooney and Di Maria aren't in the same ball park as Bale at the moment. The others are on a similar level, I wouldnt say they're better.

MrKingsley

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Yes I am being serious. There is a ridiculous amount of nonsense being written and said about him lately.

Winning 5 matches in a row for a team does not make you world class. Doing it over the course of a season when your team are in the ****s makes you world class. RVP has done it for two seasons now. That's world class form.

It terrifies me that people are so easily led by what Sky tell them or what they read in the paper.

This is the first time that Bale has scored more than 10 goals in the league. The guy is not the third best player in the world. To say otherwise is just silly. He is knocking on the door of that elite bracket but to claim that he is better than Iniesta, Rvp, Falcao and many more on the back of 5 game winning goals is absurd.

I think he's a great player, but he's not at the level that these 'experts' seem insistent upon claiming he is.

As ive said before i dont think hes anywhere near the best in the world but to say that the praise he is receiving is only on the back of 5 games is equally as absurd.

For the past 3 years he has been our most important player and has been consistently excellent throughout that period (barring the implosion and the end of last year). The only difference this year is that he is an undoubted match winner for us

Giggsy11

Super-Rush wrote: »

Who is better than him?

Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Mata, Silva, Ibrahimovic, Aguero, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria, Suarez, Xavi, Cavani, Tevez.

This is without including Bundesliga players. Maybe the Dortmund fans can add few more to this list.. :cool:

everdead.ie

I don't understand peoples fascination with comparing Bale to other players he is Bale not Ronaldo not Messi just let him play his game he's not the one claiming to be the best in the world.

IMO on form over the last number of seasons has seen Bale progress each season but he has also consistently been injured for a portion of the season our worst form this year was at the same time as Bale was out with a Hamstring problem.

I would worry injuries could prevent him from ever reaching his full potential least we forget he shouldn't peak for another 3-4 years.

Optimalprimerib

Super-Rush wrote: »

Who is better than him?

Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Mata, Silva, Ibrahimovic, Aguero, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria, Suarez, Xavi, Cavani, Tevez.

Of that list, messi, xavi, iniesta and ronaldo are the only 4 i would have definitely ahead of him. The others are on a par. I would put him ahead of tevez, cavani, and Rooney. But then again I am a little biased.

elefant

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

Of that list, messi, xavi, iniesta and ronaldo are the only 4 i would have definitely ahead of him. The others are on a par. I would put him ahead of tevez, cavani, and Rooney. But then again I am a little biased.

Definitley better tha Di Maria.

CSF

cambo2008 wrote: »

This can be said for almost all top players. Rooney goes off the boil for a few games every so often. RvP at the moment is quiet by his standards. Yaya Toure, Suarez, Aguero, David Silva, Cazorla have all gone through spells where they weren't at their best this season, some longer than others.

There's only a handful of players that are in and around their peak for the majority of a season.

RVP has a goal and 2 assists in his last 130 minutes of football. Those are some serious standards if he's quiet by them.

Will I Amnt

CSF wrote: »

RVP has a goal and 2 assists in his last 130 minutes of football. Those are some serious standards if he's quiet by them.

Yes... Yes they are.

In all competitions he recently had his most barren spell since he joined if I'm not mistaken.

jamescd

Potentially the Real Deal

Bale is a winger. Why is he being compared to midfielders and strikers

He's been scoring a lot lately but he also creates plenty of chances for his team. He is easily one of the best wingers around atm.

Mr Blobby

The Real Deal Now

jamescd wrote: »

Bale is a winger. Why is he being compared to midfielders and strikers

He's been scoring a lot lately but he also creates plenty of chances for his team. He is easily one of the best wingers around atm.

Ronaldo is a winger... Yet he's compared to Messi all the time.

Oregano_State

blobby360 wrote: »

Ronaldo is a winger... Yet he's compared to Messi all the time.

Ronaldo was a winger. He's so much more than that now. I think Bale is doing a lot of the things Ronaldo did in his transformative season. If Bale continues in this manner, the comparisons to the two big boys will become both more frequent, and more relevant.

eagle eye

Oregano_State wrote: »

Ronaldo was a winger. He's so much more than that now. I think Bale is doing a lot of the things Ronaldo did in his transformative season. If Bale continues in this manner, the comparisons to the two big boys will become both more frequent, and more relevant.

Whats changed with Ronaldo? He is still a winger/wide forward.

HazDanz

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats changed with Ronaldo? He is still a winger/wide forward.

Yep, strictly speaking but the rest of the team make it as easy as possible to create pockets for him to run into whether it is centrally or out wide. They cater to him wherever he decides to go in the forward line.

jamescd

Potentially the Real Deal

blobby360 wrote: »

Ronaldo is a winger... Yet he's compared to Messi all the time.

Because it's always them two slugging it out for the Ballon d'Or for these past 5 years (and for many years to come) so you can't help but compare them.....................................

Cienciano

Potentially the Real Deal

Nice article here from 2009.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221871/Spurs-flop-Gareth-Bale-January-Birmingham-boss-Alex-McLeish-eyes-3m-defender.html

Donnielighto

Cienciano wrote: »

Nice article here from 2009.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221871/Spurs-flop-Gareth-Bale-January-Birmingham-boss-Alex-McLeish-eyes-3m-defender.html

thats comin up a lot lately, you get it from here, joe.ie or somewhere else?

Cienciano

Potentially the Real Deal

Donnielighto wrote: »

thats comin up a lot lately, you get it from here, joe.ie or somewhere else?

Off the ball had it on facebook

cson

jamescd wrote: »

Bale is a winger. Why is he being compared to midfielders and strikers

He's been scoring a lot lately but he also creates plenty of chances for his team. He is easily one of the best wingers around atm.

Directly, he doesn't. He has one assist in the league this year.

Indirectly, yes he probably does create space and attracts the attention of more defenders which probably offers more opportunities to his team mates, but its hard to quantify that.

He's extremely good at taking up positions for him to mop up half chances from counters and half clearances.

Pighead

cson wrote: »

Directly, he doesn't. He has one assist in the league this year.

Pretty sure that's not right. When Spurs beat Utd 3-2 at Old Trafford at the beginning of the season Bale scored one goal and made the other two. So that's two assists already.

Giggsy11

jamescd wrote: »

Bale is a winger. Why is he being compared to midfielders and strikers

He's been scoring a lot lately but he also creates plenty of chances for his team. He is easily one of the best wingers around atm.

Going by average position they occupy, Bale is a striker. He was the farthest forward against West Ham and many other games. Bale is not playing as winger anymore, he is playing centrally just behind striker and ina a free role.

Liam O

Pighead wrote: »

Pretty sure that's not right. When Spurs beat Utd 3-2 at Old Trafford at the beginning of the season Bale scored one goal and made the other two. So that's two assists already.

Fantasy football have him down for 4 but they include shot rebounds and other dodgy things so it's hard to say for sure. Either way for someone who gets the ball as much as he does he really should get more assists.

Blatter

Potentially the Real Deal

Pighead wrote: »

Pretty sure that's not right. When Spurs beat Utd 3-2 at Old Trafford at the beginning of the season Bale scored one goal and made the other two. So that's two assists already.

Afaik Vertonghen's goal that day officially went down as an own goal after the dubious goals panel looked at it, so he would have gotten the assist for that one, not Bale.

Giggsy11

Blatter wrote: »

Afaik Vertonghen's goal that day officially went down as an own goal after the dubious goals panel looked at it, so he would have gotten the assist for that one, not Bale.

Even if that goal was awarded to Vertonghen, it shouldn't be counted as assist. He dribbled from half way and scored a superb goal. A simple side ways pass in your own half shouldn't be counted as assist when the player had to do lot to even get to the box.

Blatter

Potentially the Real Deal

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Even if that goal was awarded to Vertonghen, it shouldn't be counted as assist. He dribbled from half way and scored a superb goal. A simple side ways pass in your own half shouldn't be counted as assist when the player had to do lot to even get to the box.

Yep, I don't think it would be counted as an assist anywhere bar fantasy football.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Potentially the Real Deal

Super-Rush wrote: »

Who is better than him?

Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Mata, Silva, Ibrahimovic, Aguero, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria, Suarez, Xavi, Cavani, Tevez.

Bale is easily better than the players in bold, I can't comment on Cavani but bar the Barca 3, Ronaldo, RVP and Falcao you could easily make a case for being being the best.

I wonder what the hype would be like if he was playing for United? I remember when Nani was having no more than a good season, defintely not better than Bale's anyway, he was "world class".

Liam O

THFC wrote: »

Bale is easily better than the players in bold, I can't comment on Cavani but bar the Barca 3, Ronaldo, RVP and Falcao you could easily make a case for being being the best.

I wonder what the hype would be like if he was playing for United? I remember when Nani was having no more than a good season, defintely not better than Bale's anyway, he was "world class".

Well, that's a load of bollocks.

Bale easily better than 2 world cup and european championship winners, one who was a star on a team's run to the CL last year and one who was a star on the League champions last year, the 2nd highest scorer in Bale's league and one of the best wingers in the world over the past 2 or 3 seasons?

Nani was probably the league's MVP that year. Was involved in a sickening amount of goals and pretty much won United games on his own that ended up pretty much winning them the league by the end of the season. The fact that Bale beat him to the award that season was a travesty (think it was young player seeing as Nani wasn't even nominated for player if I remember correctly.)

The_Kew_Tour

THFC wrote: »

I wonder what the hype would be like if he was playing for United?

Based on comments about Ronaldo at United and now he be considered overrated and not patch on certain other players.

Giggsy11

THFC wrote: »

Bale is easily better than the players in bold, I can't comment on Cavani but bar the Barca 3, Ronaldo, RVP and Falcao you could easily make a case for being being the best.

I wonder what the hype would be like if he was playing for United? I remember when Nani was having no more than a good season, defintely not better than Bale's anyway, he was "world class".

When Nani was carrying our attack he was still labelled as "Inconsistent" but when Bale shows form in 3 months, he is compared with likes of Messi and Ronaldo and some even asked who is better than Bale apart from Ronaldo and Messi.

If he was playing for United, hype wouldn't have been to this ridiculous levels.

SuprSi

cson wrote: »

Directly, he doesn't. He has one assist in the league this year.

Indirectly, yes he probably does create space and attracts the attention of more defenders which probably offers more opportunities to his team mates, but its hard to quantify that.

He's extremely good at taking up positions for him to mop up half chances from counters and half clearances.

Just thought I'd comment on this. Bale has always created chances for his teammates - I think Spurs have the most amount of shots on goal in the league and have done for some time this season? The problem is that he doesn't have an RVP or someone of that ilk to finish the chances off. If Spurs had a proven striker (aka better than Defoe/Ade/Dempsey) his assist ratio would increase considerably. Of course this would only be the case if he was still playing on the wing - through the middle he won't create as many chances for others but will score more himself.

He's a joy to watch, a real star in the league at the moment and I'm chuffed that it looks like he's enjoying playing for AVB and Spurs.

Gringo180

The Real Deal Now

Bale isn't even in the top 5 players in the Premier League, few weeks of form and hes labelled the new Giggs :eek:

Santi101

The English media are ridiculous really, they think nothing exists outside of the EPL.

Reus at Dortmund is as good as Bale.

Bale might make top 5 in England overall but the competition is high with Van Persie, Rooney, Mata, Aguero, Yaya, Suarez. Ronaldo is a level or two above anything in this league and Messi is a step above Ronaldo.

Bale is quality, no doubting that. Form player in England but lets not get carried away.

Anyone who thinks Bale is just behind Messi and Ronaldo needs to be taken outside and shot.

Optimalprimerib

This thread seems to be full of people with the "I disagree with sky sports therefore I'm an expert" attitude. I really don't care who he is better than anymore as long as he keeps his great form.

Super-Rush

You have to give the Tottenham fans credit here.

They're fighting their corner well but they seem to have forgotten the first half of this season where he had i think 8 goals in the first 25 games and no assists.

Nobody is saying Bales isn't a fantastic talent and could be one of the best in the world if he can manage to peform for an entire season, not just for the lass five months like whats happening this season.

Jimmy Iovine

Rio tweeted about it earlier and made some sense:

Rio Ferdinand ‏@rioferdy5
People mentioning Bale in the same breath as @Cristiano + Messi really don't know football! Bale been 1 of best 2 in PL this year but....

Rio Ferdinand ‏@rioferdy5
...He is not on CR7 + Messi's level yet...he carries on doing what he is doing for 2/3yrs then there can be a debate. Bale showed me a clean

Rio Ferdinand ‏@rioferdy5
..pair of heals once this year so I'm in good position to judge! CR7 + Messi have been on another planet for 4-5yrs #consistent #KeepItClean

MD1990

The Real Deal Now

Ronaldo's performance last night in El Classico showed the comparisons are a joke tbh
has Bale even played in a really big like that yet?

marwelie

Bale is Tottenhams best player, that's about it. The English press have gone bananas over him since he scored that hattrick against Inter. He's had a very good year this year but he's nowhere near the standard of Ronaldo or Messi, anyone seriously comparing the three needs their heads examined.

klose

marwelie wrote: »

Bale is Tottenhams best player, that's about it. The English press have gone bananas over him since he scored that hattrick against Inter. He's had a very good year this year but he's nowhere near the standard of Ronaldo or Messi, anyone seriously comparing the three needs their heads examined.

Yeah spot on, hes in superb form but id only have him in the top 30 maybe top 20 in the world. The sky is the limit for the lad but the media has gone full retard on the lad

Your Airbag

Santi101 wrote: »

Ronaldo is a level or two above anything in this league and Messi is a step above Ronaldo.

Messi has not made a contribution for Barca is their last two big defeats. When teams sit back and defend then counter them Messi is kept quite. When play is open and he is constantly getting balls from midfeild and has options in front of him to work one two's with he is devastating but can't do it on his own like Ronaldo can.

For Reals first goal last night Ronaldo was given the ball just inside the Barca half and seconds later he had won them a penalty. He terrorised the Barca backline without much support all night.

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo's performance last night in El Classico showed the comparisons are a joke tbh
has Bale even played in a really big like that yet?

Exactly. Ronaldo is the best in the world right now.

Donnielighto

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo's performance last night in El Classico showed the comparisons are a joke tbh
has Bale even played in a really big like that yet?

inter but that was an aberation

Rekop dog

Your Airbag wrote: »

Messi has not made a contribution for Barca is their last two big defeats. When teams sit back and defend then counter them Messi is kept quite. When play is open and he is constantly getting balls from midfeild and has options in front of him to work one two's with he is devastating but can't do it on his own like Ronaldo can.

Just to confirm you are using a two game sample to prove that Messi struggles when teams sit back and defend? You do realise that the vast majority of teams have always set up this way for against Barca and Messi has been still destroying defenses more consistently than anyone year in year out.

This forum struggles pretty badly with recency bias.

Gbear

Giggsy11 wrote: »

When Nani was carrying our attack he was still labelled as "Inconsistent" but when Bale shows form in 3 months, he is compared with likes of Messi and Ronaldo and some even asked who is better than Bale apart from Ronaldo and Messi.

If he was playing for United, hype wouldn't have been to this ridiculous levels.

It probably would. The factor isn't who he plays for but that he's british.

There's a minor factor that if people saw him playing with a higher calibre of player regularly he would look worse by comparison but I think that isn't anywhere near as big a factor as his nationality.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Messi has not made a contribution for Barca is their last two big defeats. When teams sit back and defend then counter them Messi is kept quite. When play is open and he is constantly getting balls from midfeild and has options in front of him to work one two's with he is devastating but can't do it on his own like Ronaldo can.

That's nonsense. Barca are 16 points ahead of Madrid.
Ronaldo wasn't up to much when teams parked the bus against Madrid either and Madrid have lost 5 and drawn 4 partly as a result of that.
Messi has scored 14 more goals in the league than Ronaldo. 38 in 25 games.

It's ludicrous to suggest that all of a sudden it's Messi and not Ronaldo who is the flat track bully when the exact opposite argument was being made over the past couple of years.

Sometimes players have bad games, even Messi and Ronaldo. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Will I Amnt

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo's performance last night in El Classico showed the comparisons are a joke tbh
has Bale even played in a really big like that yet?

Hardly Bale's fault Spurs don't get to play a Copa Del Rey semi final against Barca.
He has performed very well in most of his biggest games this season.

Ronaldo wasn't anything special last night by the way. A penalty and a rebound with no keeper in the net. Played well but hardly a performance that I'd be using in an argument.

I'm not for a second saying Bale is near Ronaldo's level, just a bit of fairness in comparing wouldn't go astray.
Ronaldo is playing with some of the best in the world in a league where defending seems to be way down the list of priorities when compared to the EPL.
I reckon Bale would rip it up in Spain to be honest.

Your Airbag

Rekop dog wrote: »

Just to confirm you are using a two game sample to prove that Messi struggles when teams sit back and defend? You do realise that the vast majority of teams have always set up this way for against Barca and Messi has been still destroying defenses more consistently than anyone year in year out.

I watch a lot of La Liga and not all of them do and those that do are so poor that they are easily exploited anyway. Oustside of the top five La Liga is a much poorer league than the EPL. When faced with a decent team that knows how to defend and counter he struggles. Its not just a two game sample. Look at his record against Chelsea in their last four matches. He has been largely anonymous in the recent big games.

Gbear wrote: »

That's nonsense. Barca are 16 points ahead of Madrid.
Ronaldo wasn't up to much when teams parked the bus against Madrid either and Madrid have lost 5 and drawn 4 partly as a result of that.
Messi has scored 14 more goals in the league than Ronaldo. 38 in 25 games.

14 more looks good on paper but for a team who dominate possesion so much he is bound to get more. He gets much more support and chances than Ronaldo per game and tends to fill his boots against the lesser teams but has struggled in the big matches recenlty where as Ronaldo has scored in six out of the last seven visits to the Nou Camp. A better El Clasico record than Messi at the Nou Camp. Ronaldo is scoring the more valuable goals.


Overall Ronaldo has 185 goals in 183 apps for Real. More career goals than Messi albeit in much more games. He has taken his national team to a Euro final and Semi final, only to go out on penalties against the best National side in the world. Messi failed to score in the last World cup and Copa America with Argentina going out at the qtr final stages both times. Again he is not the same player without the Barca team and style of play built around him where as Ronaldo is more powerful and can do it on his own.

Messi would not outscore Ronaldo in the EPL.

celt262

As a Spurs supporter it is nice to see his merits being debated here and a nice pole for people to vote on.

I didn't vote as i don't care about little things like that but just hope he keeps up the form that has him as one of the best in the league this season.

Gbear

Your Airbag wrote: »

I watch a lot of La Liga and not all of them do and those that do are so poor that they are easily exploited anyway. Oustside of the top five La Liga is a much poorer league than the EPL. When faced with a decent team that knows how to defend and counter he struggles. Its not just a two game sample. Look at his record against Chelsea in their last four matches. He has been largely anonymous in the recent big games.

Different leagues are different. The overall quality is pretty similar. Spanish teams are unsurprisingly much better in a technical sense.
English teams tend to have more physicality.

Your Airbag wrote: »

14 more looks good on paper but for a team who dominate possesion so much he is bound to get more. He gets much more support and chances than Ronaldo per game and tends to fill his boots against the lesser teams but has struggled in the big matches recenlty where as Ronaldo has scored in six out of the last seven visits to the Nou Camp. A better El Clasico record than Messi at the Nou Camp. Ronaldo is scoring the more valuable goals.

Ronaldo takes more shots than Messi does. His goals to shots ratio is half of Messi's.
(sauce)

Messi has scored 14 goals in El Classicos. It's not like he's afraid of Real.
What's really an issue here is that Barca are pants at defending whereas Real probably have, on paper at least, the best defence on the planet.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Overall Ronaldo has 185 goals in 183 apps for Real. More career goals than Messi albeit in much more games. He has taken his national team to a Euro final and Semi final, only to go out on penalties against the best National side in the world. Messi failed to score in the last World cup and Copa America with Argentina going out at the qtr final stages both times. Again he is not the same player without the Barca team and style of play built around him where as Ronaldo is more powerful and can do it on his own.

Messi would not outscore Ronaldo in the EPL.

Ronaldo has scored 6 more career goals in 150 more games (wiki).

Argentina have been an utter mess for quite a while. Still, Messi is on course to be their record goalscorer and has scored 7 fewer goals than Ronaldo in 23 fewer games.

Of course players do better in better teams but seeing as Real Madrid have better players than Barca overall that's not really an argument you can level at Messi. Portugal are no muppets either. It's not like Ronaldo has been playing with Andorra.

None of which has much to do with Bale except to show that not only is Bale not on the same level as Messi or Ronaldo, he isn't on the level below them or even the level below that. On that level you have the normal human-level worldies like Falcao, Van Persie, Suarez, Aguero, etc...

Below that you have Bale. He might well get to the next level in a couple of years, especially if he moves to a better team, but his recent performances belie the rather paltry return he's had over the past few years when compared to the real elite of world football.

fullstop

Your Airbag wrote: »

Messi has not made a contribution for Barca is their last two big defeats. When teams sit back and defend then counter them Messi is kept quite. When play is open and he is constantly getting balls from midfeild and has options in front of him to work one two's with he is devastating but can't do it on his own like Ronaldo can.

So, in other words Barcelona don't perform when Messi doesn't perform? You're right, he's been carrying them for ages now.

Your Airbag wrote: »

For Reals first goal last night Ronaldo was given the ball just inside the Barca half and seconds later he had won them a penalty. He terrorised the Barca backline without much support all night.



Exactly. Ronaldo is the best in the world right now.

He picked the ball up misway inside the Barcelona half and took on one player...