TUF 17 Coaches revealed. Jon Jones vs Chael Sonnen.

SDTimeout

I am one of those people who was shown the Griffin and Bonnar fight by an older relative and that's how I started to like MMA. So yeah Griffin will always be my favorite fighter no matter what. It's really sad to see how the game has evolved and he's hanging on there but he should retire within the next year.

weemcd

Lost all respect for Griffin after his antics at 148 after fighting Ortiz, really ruined it for Ortiz on his last night in the octagon

riffmongous

weemcd wrote: »

Lost all respect for Griffin after his antics at 148 after fighting Ortiz, really ruined it for Ortiz on his last night in the octagon

I used to think that too, then I remembered what a jerk Tito is himself. Tito was the guy shouting 'payback's a b**** m*****f*****' at Mark Coleman after he got beaten up by Randy in what turned out to be his last night in the octagon

PauloConn

riffmongous wrote: »

I used to think that too, then I remembered what a jerk Tito is himself. Tito was the guy shouting 'payback's a b**** m*****f*****' at Mark Coleman after he got beaten up by Randy in what turned out to be his last night in the octagon

+1
Whatever about Griffin being a bit odd, Tito was a d**k. And he managed to hang around like a bad smell, gettin beaten by everyone until he fluked the Bader win.
There's this whole new generation of athlete coming in now that are far more dynamic than the Griffins, Tito's, Franklin's and Wanderlai's. Sonnen is in between both.
And he's still going to get knocked out without JJ even breaking a damn sweat.

Ush1

Rampage really annoys me. He moans that Bader sucks long after but he lost to him in what wasn't even a close fight which he also didn't make weight for. He constantly moans about injuries and that basically people won't fight him exactly how he wants.

He hasn't knocked anyone out in 4 years and the last was Wandi whos chin was well gone at that stage. If you actually look at his time in the UFC the notable wins were Chuck, Wandi and Machida(very close). He's been boring to watch for quite a while.

Be like Nutella

Nobody currently at 205 has any decent chance vs Jones incl Machida,.... so Jones really easily hurt Sonnen in April, and in the mean time we can watch some great competitive fights with all the other 6 or 7 other really great fighters in that division. So many amazing match up options ... wish I was Joe Silva .... sell-out that he clearly is. Sonnen has no chance, we all clearly know this yet you just know how many short term memories will malfunction as the hype builds through the episodes... funny as it definitely will be. Jones is so unquestionably dominant he's ruined a division - most people who watch MMA actually just want exciting high level but competitive fights where the outcome is a total mystery til somebody hits the canvas or taps out. Just pretend Jones doesn't exist while we watch some deadly fights between the others.. lanky unstoppable freak athlete that he is.

canonball5

riffmongous wrote: »

I used to think that too, then I remembered what a jerk Tito is himself. Tito was the guy shouting 'payback's a b**** m*****f*****' at Mark Coleman after he got beaten up by Randy in what turned out to be his last night in the octagon

I think people are quick to forget that if it wasn't for Tito I'm not sure the UFC would have survived the earlier days.

El Guapo!

canonball5 wrote: »

I think people are quick to forget that if it wasn't for Tito I'm not sure the UFC would have survived the earlier days.

There's no question Tito was the biggest star of the UFC back in the day, but I think he gets too much credit for the UFC being what it is today.
Like any organisation, the UFC is bigger than any 1 star. Saying that the UFC wouldn't have survived without Tito is a bit much in my opinion.

Be like Nutella

Used to love to hate that dick Tito, he was like every 80's movie highschool jock asshole but it wouldn't have been the same without him - he was THE hype for a long time and he was virtually impossible to beat for a while (then being about 20% the number of people active in the sport but whatever) and the rivalry, friendship turned hatred between him and chuck set the bar for Evans and Jones : ) and everybody fell down on chucks side coz the guy was so good at dropping people and had such a fighters attitude... as did Tito... he brought it every time and was really a brave fighter whether he faced better strikers or not he stood toe to toe. I'll never forget his entrances with the big dual flag and the robot sound. Dana was his and Chucks manager before he was the man in charge for yol who don't know and it was how Dana managed the two of them in the early days of the Fertitta UFC that absolutely made the UFC before it rose again after the griffin bonnar scrap. He cemented the shoot and G'N'P style and made it his own which forced fighters to evolve past it which changed martial arts forever to what we see now. Tito, a complete dickhead but deffo top 10 legend in MMA as the story goes so far. At one point he was prob as dominant as we consider Jones to be so far. Interesting question; Does Tito go back to pre-gloves MMA? hmm

Mellor

Be like Nutella wrote: »

At one point he was prob as dominant as we consider Jones to be so far.

Based on what?
He had the LHW title defense record but he got that against guys who weren't a mixed standard. Wandy, Kando, Tanner, Sinosic, Matyushenko, Shamrock.

He had do e decent wins, but he didn't face the level of guys that Jones has. Even before Jones, the 205 standard has been much higher compared to those days.

Interesting question; Does Tito go back to pre-gloves MMA? hmm

Gloves were made mandatory at UFC 14. Tito debuted at UFC 13, he didn't have to wear gloves but he did, like most fighters at that stage. Fighters had been choosing to wear them since UFC 4 I think.

jayteecork

DrPhilG wrote: »

Nuts.

If the division was bare then I could see the sense in this. But we have Henderson, Machida, Gustaffson, Teixeira and Shogun (Dana recently said that Rua-Gustaffson would be in line for the title).

LHW is stacked, and there is a long line ahead of Sonnen. This is freakshow match making. Am I curious to see it? Of course.

But this is BS.

Yup. UFC is turning into the WWE

MrStuffins

jayteecork wrote: »

Yup. UFC is turning into the WWE

No it's not.

jayteecork

MrStuffins wrote: »

No it's not.

Come on, CHAEL ****ING SONNEN next in line for a shot at the LHW belt.

How much money do Dana and those brothers want?

How about having someone who deserves a shot fight him instead.

DrPhilG

jayteecork wrote: »

Come on, CHAEL ****ING SONNEN next in line for a shot at the LHW belt.

How much money do Dana and those brothers want?

How about having someone who deserves a shot fight him instead.

And how exactly does an undeserved title shot turn a combat sport into a scripted choreographed action show?

Mellor

jayteecork wrote: »

Come on, CHAEL ****ING SONNEN next in line for a shot at the LHW belt.

How much money do Dana and those brothers want?

How about having someone who deserves a shot fight him instead.

I think the whole point of having Jones as a coach is to give the LHW division a chance to achieve some sort of ranking st the top. Jones has blitz through everyone any whete near the top and this has never happened in such a short spave of time, in any division.
He needs an opposite coach for TUF and Chael makes the must sense in terms of a good show for the fans and the rankings.

A match with Jones at the end of it is just a unfortunate collateral effect.

jayteecork

DrPhilG wrote: »

And how exactly does undeserved title shots turn a combat sport into a script choreographed action show?

Cause of all the retarded thrash talking and the hero/villian crap.

They're now flexing their monopoly muscles by shafting fighters because they know it's either the UFC or the minor leagues.

They only seem interested in PPV receipts by creating these "grudge matches" - just like the WWE does.

Ok it's real in the ring but what kind of message is this sending out to the up-and-comers?
"Ok I may be the best in the division but I'm not getting a shot cause this guy is a better thrash talker than me"
Why bother? Chael Sonnen is the most mediocre Mixed Martial Artist there is.

Hendo, Lyoto, Shogun, Swede etc must be fuming but there's absolutely zero they can do, and Zuffa knows it.

MrStuffins

jayteecork wrote: »

Cause of all the retarded thrash talking and the hero/villian crap.

They're in the entertainment business. Sport & Entertainment are inextricably linked

They're now flexing their monopoly muscles by shafting fighters because they know it's either the UFC or the minor leagues.

Nobody got shafted here. Sonnen skipped the queue that's all. He doesn't deserve the shot but the fact they are putting Jones and Sonnen, possibly the sports 2 biggest crossover stars right now, as opposing TUF coaches make the whole thing make a lot more sense.

They only seem interested in PPV receipts by creating these "grudge matches" - just like the WWE does.

Not true. How many of these fights have we had exactly?

Ok it's real in the ring but what kind of message is this sending out to the up-and-comers?
"Ok I may be the best in the division but I'm not getting a shot cause this guy is a better thrash talker than me"
Why bother? Chael Sonnen is the most mediocre Mixed Martial Artist there is.

Would ya stop! You're almost as bad as parents who whine about celebrities for being "bad role models". Fighters are smart enough to know the situation.

Hendo, Lyoto, Shogun, Swede etc must be fuming but there's absolutely zero they can do, and Zuffa knows it.

Hendo was granted his shot and wasn't very clever about how he handled the announcement of his injury.

Machida got 2 shots at Jones. First he got choked unconcious, second time he turned the fight down.

And Swede my arse! He's not worthy, not right now! Who has he beaten in the top 10?

jayteecork

MrStuffins wrote: »

And Swede my arse! He's not worthy, not right now! Who has he beaten in the top 10?

Lol And Sonnen is worthy?

I wish Sonnen would run away and join the circus cause I'm fed up of him and his bs at this stage. There are outlets for his sort of behaviour but it's not at the paragon of combat sports imo.
The WWE, The circus, Court jestering, The Pantomine, Will Ferrell movies, would all be more suitable to Chael's "talents" - he's a crap mixed martial artist to be fair to him. Maybe himself and Jason Miller could get some sort of "reality TV" gig on MTV. Those two muppets would put the cast of Jersey Shore to shame. Throw in Wes Sims and you'd have comedy gold.

Hard to believe how quickly he was back thrash talking after making an absolute fool of himself against Silva.

MrStuffins

jayteecork wrote: »

Lol And Sonnen is worthy?

MrStuffins wrote: »

Nobody got shafted here. Sonnen skipped the queue that's all. He doesn't deserve the shot ........

2 wrongs don't make a right. Gustafsson has no right to feel agreived here as he himself has no claim to a title shot.

riffmongous

jayteecork wrote: »

...he's a crap mixed martial artist to be fair to him.

I really dont see how people come to this conclusion? 3 losses in the last 3.5 years with 2 of them coming to a guy (who many of the people calling Sonnen crap) is considered the GOAT?

jayteecork

Well Trevor Prangley gets a doing around here and he's lost to him.

He also has a license to cheat (with this testosterone bs) and he lost the first two rounds to Bisping imo.

Show me someone notable he's beaten over his career besides Okami and Stann (both no great shakes either)

He's only weapon is lay and pray and I'd love if the UFC put him up against any of the other LHW fighters I mentioned above just to watch him get his ass handed to him.

Although that said I'm sort of glad he's fighting Bones - it'll be worth it for the slow Greg Jackson-inspired beating he's going to receive.

MrStuffins

riffmongous wrote: »

I really dont see how people come to this conclusion? 3 losses in the last 3.5 years with 2 of them coming to a guy (who many of the people calling Sonnen crap) is considered the GOAT?

Wins over Filho, Okami, Bisping, Marquart, Stann.........

He's probably still the No.2 MW in the world.

El Guapo!

I don't think anybody believes Sonnen deserves a title shot, including Sonnen himself.
He's a decent fighter and an expert showman. Whether you love him or hate him, he gets people talking about him, which is what really matters. He realises the career of a fighter is a relatively short one and unless you're the champ at some stage, you may not be set for life by the time you retire. He's doing all he can now to earn a few quid while he can.
I used to hate him and I've said so on this forum. His WWE style rants done my head in. But I've grown to understand where he's coming from.
If the 205 division was more competitive then he would never have gotten this shot. The other fighters in the division have a right to be a little pissed off, but only because they didn't think of it themselves. They're obviously not making the division as competitive as it should be, and there are no stand out personalities there either.
At the end of the day, its up to the fighters to make themselves stand out and get these title shots. They didn't do it so Sonnen stepped in and took it.
Ya snooze ya lose.

MrStuffins

I'm a fan of Jones but I think i'd actually like to see Sonnen pull this off. A sneaky Matt Serra style KO.

Logical Fallacy

MrStuffins wrote: »

Wins over Filho, Okami, Bisping, Marquart, Stann.........

He's probably still the No.2 MW in the world.

I don't think even Sonnen counts the win over Filho.

MrStuffins

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I don't think even Sonnen counts the win over Filho.

Is that case you could say he shouldn't count the loss to him either.

Anyway, Sonnen is probably still the No.2 MW in the world. It would be hard for even the hatiest of haters to but him outside the Top 5.... far from a "crap mixed martial artist" as was said.

Xlami

To those thinking that UFC is turning into WWE I think you'll find it's in fact turning into boxing. I used to be a huge boxing fan and admittedly I wouldn't have too vast a knowledge about the sport now but I feel if someone did they could reinforce my point with modern examples. During the 00's there were incredible fighters like Kosta Tyzu who is a quiet unassuming lad being over looked by the brash Shane Mosely for the big fights. Media whores like Mosely and De La Hoya were getting the MGM Grand fights ahead of Tyzu who didn't fight there until he knocked out JCC. It's like the way GSP outsells Anderson because he speaks English and is good looking even though his fights are far less exciting. Zuffa don't have a predetermined system in place like Pride did. Title shots are solely at Zuffa's discretion and they will grant one to whoever will sell the most. While frustrating it's the reality and it's a reality most fans don't even realise. For instance if Penn beats McDonald he'll be one fight away from a title shot whereas Fitch is probably another 3 or 4 away from one. People will argue whether this is fair or not but there's very little they can do about it.

MrStuffins

While your point is valid enough, I don't think it's as widespread as you think it is.

Fitch deserves another shot I agree. BUt I also think that he isn't poster boy material and he'd be a very tough sell as a champion. Also, the first fight wasn't even close.

UFC isn't becoming Boxing, it can be like Boxing sometimes and is perhaps IN DANGER of being so, but it only happens in small bursts IMO.

For example, Brock Lesnar is a blatant example of what you're talking about. But when you look at the participants in HW title fights, circumstances permitting, were there many who were undeserving like Sonnen or Lesnar?

Mir, Carwin, Cain, Dos Santos? Big Nog?

LHW: Ramgage, Griffin (who had just beaten the consensus No.1 LHW in the world, albeit an injured one), Rashad, Lyoto, Shogun, Jones.......

MW isn't worth going into IMO as Silva has smashed everyone and anyone.

WW: Penn, Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, Shields. Hardy for me was a rushed one. He kinda skipped the queue.

LW: Penn, Sherk, Sanchez, Florian, Gray, Edgar..........


IMO all but 3 of the people who have gotten shots in the UFC in recent memory have really earned it. Not Lesnar, Hardy and now Sonnen. I think they should be allowed one of these fights now and again.

RWCNT

Xlami wrote: »

To those thinking that UFC is turning into WWE I think you'll find it's in fact turning into boxing.

Well said, that makes infinitely more sense than these daft WWE comparisons. Every time I hear that comparison being made I can't help but think the people making it have never watched a sport apart from MMA, (which they probably got into directly from WWE after Brock's crossover) due to their lack of comparative scope.

jayteecork wrote: »

...he's a crap mixed martial artist to be fair to him.

You truly do not have a clue.

jayteecork

RWCNT wrote: »

You truly do not have a clue.

no you

RWCNT

jayteecork wrote: »

no you

Hahaha, bless.

riffmongous

MrStuffins wrote: »

While your point is valid enough, I don't think it's as widespread as you think it is.

Fitch deserves another shot I agree. BUt I also think that he isn't poster boy material and he'd be a very tough sell as a champion. Also, the first fight wasn't even close.

UFC isn't becoming Boxing, it can be like Boxing sometimes and is perhaps IN DANGER of being so, but it only happens in small bursts IMO.

For example, Brock Lesnar is a blatant example of what you're talking about. But when you look at the participants in HW title fights, circumstances permitting, were there many who were undeserving like Sonnen or Lesnar?

Mir, Carwin, Cain, Dos Santos? Big Nog?

LHW: Ramgage, Griffin (who had just beaten the consensus No.1 LHW in the world, albeit an injured one), Rashad, Lyoto, Shogun, Jones.......

MW isn't worth going into IMO as Silva has smashed everyone and anyone.

WW: Penn, Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, Shields. Hardy for me was a rushed one. He kinda skipped the queue.

LW: Penn, Sherk, Sanchez, Florian, Gray, Edgar..........


IMO all but 3 of the people who have gotten shots in the UFC in recent memory have really earned it. Not Lesnar, Hardy and now Sonnen. I think they should be allowed one of these fights now and again.

I agree with almost all of this except for I think recently at light heavyweight only Rashad really earned his shot, Machida got his with a dodgy performance against Rampage and a win over Couture and Rampage got his with a win over Hamill, I think both of those guys got their shots because people wanted to see how Jones would do against Machida's unorthodox style and before that people wanted to see how he would do once his chin was tested.

Xlami

MrStuffins wrote: »

While your point is valid enough, I don't think it's as widespread as you think it is.

Fitch deserves another shot I agree. BUt I also think that he isn't poster boy material and he'd be a very tough sell as a champion. Also, the first fight wasn't even close.

UFC isn't becoming Boxing, it can be like Boxing sometimes and is perhaps IN DANGER of being so, but it only happens in small bursts IMO.

For example, Brock Lesnar is a blatant example of what you're talking about. But when you look at the participants in HW title fights, circumstances permitting, were there many who were undeserving like Sonnen or Lesnar?

Mir, Carwin, Cain, Dos Santos? Big Nog?

LHW: Ramgage, Griffin (who had just beaten the consensus No.1 LHW in the world, albeit an injured one), Rashad, Lyoto, Shogun, Jones.......

MW isn't worth going into IMO as Silva has smashed everyone and anyone.

WW: Penn, Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, Shields. Hardy for me was a rushed one. He kinda skipped the queue.

LW: Penn, Sherk, Sanchez, Florian, Gray, Edgar..........


IMO all but 3 of the people who have gotten shots in the UFC in recent memory have really earned it. Not Lesnar, Hardy and now Sonnen. I think they should be allowed one of these fights now and again.

Yeh you're right I probably did overstate my point. However as you have stated it's a pretty difficult thing to achieve a title shot. Wasn't G-Sots 8-0 at one stage during the LW back-up. An that is why when contencious title shots are given out like the poster above me has stated, add to that Florian, Belfort twice (skipped the que at MW IMO) it's very frustrating for the fans.

jayteecork

riffmongous wrote: »

I agree with almost all of this except for I think recently at light heavyweight only Rashad really earned his shot, Machida got his with a dodgy performance against Rampage and a win over Couture and Rampage got his with a win over Hamill, I think both of those guys got their shots because people wanted to see how Jones would do against Machida's unorthodox style and before that people wanted to see how he would do once his chin was tested.

Don't forget Machida went 6/6 without losing a round before he got his first title shot and he absolutely dismantled Rashad.

I agree he probably didn't deserve his second shot but he was in the right place at the right time. There was literally no-one else available to fight Bones.

I still believe that a 100% Machida is the only person who can stop Bones at LHW right now. He looked absolutely amazeballs against Bader.

Mellor

riffmongous wrote: »

I agree with almost all of this except for I think recently at light heavyweight only Rashad really earned his shot, Machida got his with a dodgy performance against Rampage and a win over Couture and Rampage got his with a win over Hamill, I think both of those guys got their shots because people wanted to see how Jones would do against Machida's unorthodox style and before that people wanted to see how he would do once his chin was tested.

Your pretty much ignoring the fact that Nachida was 16-0 and LHW champ. He got the title **** based on his ability not his most recent fights 2 or 3 fights.

riffmongous

Mellor wrote: »

Your pretty much ignoring the fact that Nachida was 16-0 and LHW champ. He got the title **** based on his ability not his most recent fights 2 or 3 fights.

Of course and I wouldnt call that 'earning' a title shot. Even if you were champ and you lose you should have to at least put together a few wins before getting another shot to earn it imo.

El Guapo!

Jones and Sonnen are way too friendly for my liking. I don't think their TUF season will be as good as we all hope it will......

adamski8

Dean09 wrote: »

Jones and Sonnen are way too friendly for my liking. I don't think their TUF season will be as good as we all hope it will......

But probably how 99% of how fighters are really like to each other, hype and marketing love a ould hatred, i prefer good fights.

El Guapo!

adamski8 wrote: »

But probably how 99% of how fighters are really like to each other, hype and marketing love a ould hatred, i prefer good fights.

Yeah true. And normally I don't care if fighters love or have each other as long as they put on a good fight.
But for this TUF, I was expecting a bit of craic between those two. I thought Sonnen would be winding him up constantly.