A Defense of Giovanni Trappatoni

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

Paraguay? What about all those teams ranked way above us that we've drawn with?

Really. All those results have been luck and crap referees?
We also failed to qualify for the world cup against FRANCE because of bad luck and a crap referee.

How many of the defeats have been to teams ranked in the top 8 in the world at the time we played them?

When did we play paraguay in a competitive game?

aramush

Higher wrote: »

Caveman football that has ensured that we have been unbeaten in 39/51 games. Caveman football that qualified us for the Euros. Caveman football that had us go on a 11 match clean sheet streak. Caveman football that has us currently 2nd in our group.

Results are what matter, no?

Caveman football got our arses handed to us in the Euro's and against Germany on Friday..

peabutler

At the end of the day results talk and for all the puke football we play, Gio gets them 8/10.

Higher

Predalien wrote: »

When did we play paraguay in a competitive game?

Oh right so now only competitive games count?
How many competitive games has Trap lost then?

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

P
We also failed to qualify for the world cup against FRANCE because of bad luck and a crap referee.

The one game where the players clearly went against what Trap wants from them.

Higher

aramush wrote: »

Caveman football got our arses handed to us in the Euro's and against Germany on Friday..

Our arses handed to us?
We lost to Italy 2-0. Italy went onto be finalists in the Euros
We lost to Croatia 3-1. Croatia were ranked 8th in the world at the time
We lost 5-0 to Spain. Fair enough. But Spain went onto to beat Italy 4-0!

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

Oh right so now only competitive games count?
How many competitive games has Trap lost then?

That's what I said, the highest ranked team we've beaten in a competitive game is Armenia. in the last 6 competitive games we've lost 4.

Higher

Predalien wrote: »

The one game where the players clearly went against what Trap wants from them.

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that you are involved in the Irish set up. Do you mind if I ask you what your position is?

Higher

Predalien wrote: »

That's what I said, the highest ranked team we've beaten in a competitive game is Armenia. in the last 6 competitive games we've lost 4.

Italy, Spain, Croatia and Germany.

Do you think that Irish team could beat those teams under a different manager?

So Trappatoni has lost ONLY 4 COMPETITIVE GAMES IN FOUR YEARS? incredible record tbh.

Ardent

Predalien wrote: »

That's what I said, the highest ranked team we've beaten in a competitive game is Armenia. in the last 6 competitive games we've lost 4.

Ha ha, you really are priceless. Your bitterness is so funny.

How many competitive games have we lost under Trap since he took over as manager?

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that you are involved in the Irish set up. Do you mind if I ask you what your position is?

I'm the lad who doesn't take the alternative view merely for arguments sake.

Augmerson

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's sentences like these that piss me off about this forum.

Everyone here has an opinion and everyone's entitled to express it - there's nothing like a good debate, but when you basically try to tell other posters that they are too stupid to understand your "obviously correct" point of view, then the debate turns to shite and becomes nothing more than an "I know more than you" competition.

Well guess what - you don't actually know more than anyone else. You're just a punter like the rest of us, so get over yourself.

I never said anybody was too stupid to understand my own view point and don't insinuate that I have. Everybody here is entitled to their own opinion and I thoroughly uphold that but it's not media hysteria what is going on right now with the Irish team. It's been going on for a long time and there are a lot of us who are genuinely frustrated and totally turned off from supporting the Irish team.

From the Op's opening post it seems to me that he has a hard on for Trapattoni and a very one sided view of his tenure as Irish manager and I am not going along with it. Is what I've said a thousand miles off the mark? Well that is probably a matter of opinion and up for people to agree or disagree.

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/s720x720/227466_4523896131536_176905333_n.jpg

Higher

Predalien wrote: »

I'm the lad who doesn't take the alternative view merely for arguments sake.

So not only do you have insight into the Irish set up, you also have the insight into what I am thinking as well?

Tell me your secret.

Flange/Flanders

Higher wrote: »

Andy Reid - A lad who went on the piss past curfew and then told Trap to **** off when he told him to go to bed.

Stephen Ireland - A lad who couldn't give a **** about Ireland irrespective of Trap

James McClean - A lad who went out and tweeted his disappointment at not getting picked insinuating he is better than other players on the team

Fair enough Reid and IReland but what about the lack of respect he showed Steven Reid, Kevin Foley, James McClean/Damien Duff (with that crap himself and Tardelli were carrying on with post Duffs retirement. Not to mention some of our better players like Shane Long and Ciaran Clark. I'll put money with anyone here that if Dunne and O'Dea/St Ledger is fit, O'Shea will be put to right back and Coleman dropped again. I know we dont have world class players but we should at least still play our best players.

S28382

Higher wrote: »

All I'm saying is that German team is almost unstoppable when they click in attack. They obviously took the foot off the gas going 4-0 up. Unfortunately for Ireland they clicked for 90 minutes.

Ireland let them click for 90 minutes the Irish team didnt even try against the Germans and thats more sickening than the 6 goals that they shifted.

Higher

Augmerson wrote: »

From the Op's opening post it seems to me that he has a hard on for Trapattoni and a very one sided view of his tenure as Irish manager and I am not going along with it. Is what I've said a thousand miles off the mark? Well that is probably a matter of opinion and up for people to agree or disagree.

I am sorry oh beacon of objectivity.

clubberlang12

noodler wrote: »

Italy at home.
Italy Away.

Macedonia Away.
Montenagro away.

France away.

Cyprus away.

Estonia away.

Russia away.

Armenia away.


Tell me when you want me to stop.

Passion and pride have undoubtedly been part of Traps's teams.

The tactics and personal have been wrong many times but to say his teams haven't shown spirit is factually incorrect.

Yes his teams have shown spirit. I never stated that. My opinion is that he has not being the one to motivate that fight or spirit in them. Because a team pulls a draw out of a lose or a win out of a draw situation is not exclusively because of the manager. Sometimes players take it upon themselves. Paris, if one is to believe the much publicised stories, is one example. Dunne and Given in Russia is another. Was that from masterfull pre kickoff and halftime motivational talk from Trap. Well listening to a former players interview last week, Trap doesn't say much during those periods! The majority or players would run through a brick wall for their country.

Quite honestly, do you believe Trap to be that motivator?

Flange/Flanders

Higher wrote: »

Our arses handed to us?
We lost to Italy 2-0. Italy went onto be finalists in the Euros
We lost to Croatia 3-1. Croatia were ranked 8th in the world at the time
We lost 5-0 to Spain. Fair enough. But Spain went onto to beat Italy 4-0!

FFS, we only lost 4-0 to Spain. I know that only helps your point but get it right!

aramush

Higher wrote: »

Our arses handed to us?
We lost to Italy 2-0. Italy went onto be finalists in the Euros
We lost to Croatia 3-1. Croatia were ranked 8th in the world at the time
We lost 5-0 to Spain. Fair enough. But Spain went onto to beat Italy 4-0!

The same rankings you use that had England at 3rd for a stage? We lost 4-0 to Spain.

You seem to miss the fact that our play during those 3 games showed no ambition, no fight, no 'plan B', just constant hoofing. And may I mention the inclusion of Simon Cox as a winger, Paul Green coming on ahead of Gibson, the Shane Long issue..

You can't defend that.

And also that 6-1 loss on Friday, bearing in mind the Faroe's where more competitive than us when they played them in Germany.

It's time to move on from Trap, don't get me wrong, I am grateful for what he has done but there comes a time when enough is enough and I've seen enough.

clubberlang12

rarnes1 wrote: »

Hold on. You can hardly criticise a manager for poor results and then claim it was only the players that were responsible for the good results.

You Sir are posting nonsense.

Where have i criticised him for poor results? Do you think Trap inspired Given and Dunne to those heroics? Was it his defensive organisation that has been so evident that keep a clean sheet in Russia?

Higher

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Yes his teams have shown spirit. I never stated that. My opinion is that he has not being the one to motivate that fight or spirit in them. Because a team pulls a draw out of a lose or a win out of a draw situation is not exclusively because of the manager. Sometimes players take it upon themselves. Paris, if one is to believe the much publicised stories, is one example. Dunne and Given in Russia is another. Was that from masterfull pre kickoff and halftime motivational talk from Trap. Well listening to a former players interview last week, Trap doesn't say much during those periods! The majority or players would run through a brick wall for their country.

Quite honestly, do you believe Trap to be that motivator?

Ah ok... So when the team is motivated its not because of Trap...but when the team is not motivated it is because of Trap??

Did you listen to McCarthy's interview tonight btw?

Higher

aramush wrote: »

The same rankings you use that had England at 3rd for a stage? We lost 4-0 to Spain.

You seem to miss the fact that our play during those 3 games showed no ambition, no fight, no 'plan B', just constant hoofing. And may I mention the inclusion of Simon Cox as a winger, Paul Green coming on ahead of Gibson, the Shane Long issue..

You can't defend that.

And also that 6-1 loss on Friday, bearing in mind the Faroe's where more competitive than us when they played them in Germany.

It's time to move on from Trap, don't get me wrong, I am grateful for what he has done but there comes a time when enough is enough and I've seen enough.

Yes its been painful qualfying for the Euros. But most painful of all has been losing just one game to a team ranked below us in four years.

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

So not only do you have insight into the Irish set up, you also have the insight into what I am thinking as well?

Tell me your secret.

You don't need insight to work Trap out, just a basic knowledge of football. Watch how we kicked off against Kazakhstan, Germany and the Faroes. Back to the full back straight away then WHOOSH, long ball up the pitch. No ambition, no faith in his players, no attempt to let the players get comfortable with the ball, just kick the ball down the park, it's absolute crap no matter what level you're at.

clubberlang12

Higher wrote: »

Ah ok... So when the team is motivated its not because of Trap...but when the team is not motivated it is because of Trap??

Did you listen to McCarthy's interview tonight btw?

Oh shock horror........a player still in the squad doesn't rock the boat by speaking out against a manager. Ask Long how is faring with regular football under Trap.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

The North just gave Trap a lesson in how to not be humiliated against a top side.

Higher

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Oh shock horror........a player still in the squad doesn't rock the boat by speaking out against a manager. Ask Long how is faring with regular football under Trap.

He didn't have to give such a ringing endorsement.

Higher

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

The North just gave Trap a lesson in how to not be humiliated against a top side.

Is that the same Northern Ireland we beat 5-0 under Trappatoni?

noodler

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Yes his teams have shown spirit. I never stated that. My opinion is that he has not being the one to motivate that fight or spirit in them. Because a team pulls a draw out of a lose or a win out of a draw situation is not exclusively because of the manager. Sometimes players take it upon themselves. Paris, if one is to believe the much publicised stories, is one example. Dunne and Given in Russia is another. Was that from masterfull pre kickoff and halftime motivational talk from Trap. Well listening to a former players interview last week, Trap doesn't say much during those periods! The majority or players would run through a brick wall for their country.

Quite honestly, do you believe Trap to be that motivator?

Of course.

You can't pick and choose what you give him credit for.

Christ, the least we have shown under Trap was passion.

I listed nearly a dozen examples - don't just pick Russia.



Christ if they play like they did on Friday then people say he has lost the dressing room, when they play with heart like they did against Italy, Armenia or Russia away and people say it has nothing to do with the manager.

hefferboi

Trap won't even start our (arguably) most in-form player. I know Keane scored 4 today but Long should be in ahead of him.

Higher

Predalien wrote: »

You don't need insight to work Trap out, just a basic knowledge of football. Watch how we kicked off against Kazakhstan, Germany and the Faroes. Back to the full back straight away then WHOOSH, long ball up the pitch. No ambition, no faith in his players, no attempt to let the players get comfortable with the ball, just kick the ball down the park, it's absolute crap no matter what level you're at.

Amazing how we've only lost once to team outside the top 10 then in 4 years. And how we qualified for the Euros. And how we nearly qualified for the World Cup in a game away playing against France.

You must have great insight. I'm sure if you were manager you'd get Ireland to qualify from a group with 2 euro finalists and a team ranked 8th in the world and would never lose ANY games in 4 years against teams ranked below us.

kitakyushu

hefferboi wrote: »

Trap won't even start our (arguably) most in-form player. I know Keane scored 4 today but Long should be in ahead of him.

Long should do some am-dram evening classes. Then he could be a great goalscorer too.

clubberlang12

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Where have i criticised him for poor results? Do you think Trap inspired Given and Dunne to those heroics? Was it his defensive organisation that has been so evident that keep a clean sheet in Russia?

Russia was a lucky result but he went for the draw and got it. The draw was good enough to take us to the Euro's evidently.

Strange to be nitpicking at what was an excellent result.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Higher wrote: »

Is that the same Northern Ireland we beat 5-0 under Trappatoni?

Aye, which makes all the forelock tuggers of the Germans on here even more embarrassing.

Wouldn't have minded being beat, but at least could have done it with pride.

peabutler

What's with the ignorant assumption that Trap is the only international manager ever to overlook some decent players ( and let's not use hyperbole here that's all Clark, Long, McClean etc are ). All we have to do is look at England and the Ferdinand situation, or Scotland with Stephen Fletcher even going further afield players like Kaka and Benzema for a while weren't international shoe in's. More comes into the equation then reputation when picking a team.

Never knew so many from here had dressing room access for internationals.

briany

Ireland are where they would have likely expected to be in this group apart from a poor GD. If Trap is to go, he must go now.

There is no way that Ireland will get any kind of result against Germany away or Sweden x2 playing the way that they do currently and with the personnel being used. I'm not convinced about chances against Austria either. This is the main thing that defenders of Trapattoni seem to grossly overlook, while talking about his past record which is fine if they want to ignore the question of the team's future. His tenure with Ireland has so far been bittersweet. It's had highs and lows, but I'm talking about the period from now to Oct 2013.

Leejo

"@McDonnellDan: Trap directly asked if players understood game plan. Response? “There is 3 or 4 players, 1 metre 88, strong. With personality.” There you go"

"@McDonnellDan: Trapattoni asking if anyone has watched the DVD of Kazakhstan game. He is still insisting that Ireland played well. No player has said that."

How much does he get per annum again?

luketitz

The cracks have been papered over for now, huge game in Stockholm come March. I can't really think of a better replacement from the current pool of managerial talent being bandied about so let's just get back behind the manager as it's all we can do really.

Our opinions don't really count in the grand scheme of things - this limited group of players need the best support they can get and that's the only role we, as fans, can really play in this whole scenario.

Hannibal

aramush wrote: »

You seem to miss the fact that our play during those 3 games showed no ambition, no fight, no 'plan B', just constant hoofing. And may I mention the inclusion of Simon Cox as a winger, Paul Green coming on ahead of Gibson, the Shane Long issue..

I seem to recall Rafa Benitez sending on Didi Hamann in a ractical reshuffle to turn a European Cup final and Mancini regularly used De Jong last year to matches. It's not all about whoever has the most forwards wins games sometimes it's what goes on behind the forwards ie bringing on defensive midfielders to use other midfielders further forward that wins the games as proven by Benitez and Mancini.

People on here talk about Trappatoni's motivational skills yet he has won trophies with Juventus, Inter and Bayern Munich plus league titles in Portugal and Austria. Motivation isn't donning a tracksuit and jumping around like Martin O'Neill, I'm sure Trapattoni and Tardelli have seen enough in their time in football to know all about motivation.

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

Amazing how we've only lost once to team outside the top 10 then in 4 years. And how we qualified for the Euros. And how we nearly qualified for the World Cup in a game away playing against France.

You must have great insight. I'm sure if you were manager you'd get Ireland to qualify from a group with 2 euro finalists and a team ranked 8th in the world and would never lose ANY games in 4 years against teams ranked below us.

As I was trying to highlight with my "we've lost 4 out of 6" thing you can justify anything with selective statistics. If we'd given it a go in the Euros and still lost 3 games I wouldn't mind, they were all better sides and we couldn't have been favourite in any of the games. Jose Mourinho wouldn't have got us out of the group. But under Trap we'll never even have a glimmer of hope, the supposed "system" is ****, it's lump the ball, let them pass it, invite them on, stand off them and hope they miss. No matter who we play.

Higher

Predalien wrote: »

As I was trying to highlight with my "we've lost 4 out of 6" thing you can justify anything with selective statistics. If we'd given it a go in the Euros and still lost 3 games I wouldn't mind, they were all better sides and we couldn't have been favourite in any of the games. Jose Mourinho wouldn't have got us out of the group. But under Trap we'll never even have a glimmer of hope, the supposed "system" is ****, it's lump the ball, let them pass it, invite them on, stand off them and hope they miss. No matter who we play.

Selective statistics? I'm basing my argument on ALL the statistics. Its you who is trying to be selective.

WallyGUFC

People here must be bonkers defending Trap. Oh yippee, we just knocked 4 past the 158th best international team in the world. We should have lost to Kazakhstan. We've had a record home defeat to a team who never had to get out on 2nd gear. He has to go.

But that's not to say he hasn't done well. He was exactly what was needed after Staunton. He made us solid. But he didn't make the next step. It's kind of like Donegal in the GAA, they added a new attacking dimension this year. And people saying our players aren't capable of this are talking s**te. James McCarthy gave a masterclass tonight, great passing, great at linking the play. There are better players than Paul Green, McShane etc etc playing in the PL and not getting picked. Plus his treatment of ceetain, already named players has been scandalous. Stuff like playing Cox on the wing. He's just lost it. The team has no confidence now, they're afraid to express themselves. I'm not talking put 5 past Germany away from home, but at least stop the hoofball and put passes together. We f**king have the players to do it!! He has to go.

Higher

WallyGUFC wrote: »

People here must be bonkers defending Trap. Oh yippee, we just knocked 4 past the 158th best international team in the world. We should have lost to Kazakhstan. We've had a record home defeat to a team who never had to get out on 2nd gear. He has to go.

I think people are defending him on his overall record to be honest. We should have lost to Kazachstan? What does that mean? Can I then argue that we should have knocked out France and qualified for the World Cup?

We f**king have the players to do it!! He has to go.

Really? we have the players to run rings around the likes of Italy, Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Croatia, Uruguay, France? (just listing the teams hes lost to)

Higher

O.K heres a question.

Out of the teams Trappatoni has lost to in the last four years, who should we have beaten?

PhiloCypher

However decent the results were before with traps tactics , can the defenders not at least admit that they simply are not working anymore ??? and before people jump in with 6 points from 9, we were abject against Kazakstan and fluked a win , performance wise we have been abject for 5 competitive games. The only reason we weren't today was because the pressure was on , I expect him to return to form tactically speaking soon as he feels the pressure is off.

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

Selective statistics? I'm basing my argument on ALL the statistics. Its you who is trying to be selective.

Yet you ignore that Armenia are the highest ranked team we've beaten competitively? He's had lucky groups, lucky decisions, an easy play off and this blinds fools into thinking he is doing a good job. We don't need to pay a guy €1.7m to get the team hoofing the ball down the park.

Predalien

Higher wrote: »

O.K heres a question.

Out of the teams Trappatoni has lost to in the last four years, who should we have beaten?

Should have held on in the home game against Italy.

Higher

Has the quality of Irish players ever been this bad though? Its hardly Trap's fault that we don't have any players playing for top teams.

weldoninhio

Can people stop saying that we were a dodgy refereeing decision from the World Cup!! France were already on top in the game and if Gallas hadn't scored the best we would have gotten was a draw!!

Trap is out-dated and shockingly negative, you can throw stats and that around all you like, but i watch football because i like it, like the majority of people. What Trap serves up is making me hate watching the Irish team and lose interest in international football. Who is to say another manager wouldn't have gotten us the results that Trap has. Or wouldn't have put up more of a fight in the Euros?? Maybe its the fact that we made 2 poor managerial decisions before Trap that is blinkering peoples view??

And his constant references to how we are not good enough are pathetic, we have never been in the footballing greats but we always put it up to opposing teams. Its like someone being bullied and constantly being told that they are worthless, after a while they start to believe this and their self-esteem wears away. We seem to have an inferiority complex when faced with a decent team now. Where as before we had an attitude of "you think your better than us, lets see about that", we may have lost, but we put up a fight and never ever put in a performance like last Friday.


TRAP OUT!!!!