A Defense of Giovanni Trappatoni

weldoninhio

SuperInfinity wrote: »

derrrr.... their world cup group was two years ago. It was meaningless to what happened at Euro 2012 where they got to the final. No offence but what a stupid point to make.

Derrrrr.........he was talking about our draw with them in the qualifying competition for the WC. Perhaps read the thread, you might look less silly. On my part, i made a my mistake, in the 2-2 draw Pazzini wasn't sent off, that was the 1-1. Point about how poor they were at the subsequent tournament still stands!!!

LeBash

There are arguments for and against. The reason I can't defend him is the fact he has developed no players with the exception of having to play a couple when injuries require. He kicks and screams when he is being asked why clearly superior players are not playing and those 2 things will take 2-4 years to repair as we will need to replace 11 players soon due to age and lack of talent. Please don't point out tonight's squad. We all know it will be back to normal soon.

We have got the potential squad for top 15-20. As it is I feel we will drift down to mid thirties. In saying all that, I would miss Manuela during the interviews.

Xavi6

He shouldn't have been given a contract before the Euros and he should have gone after, simple as that for me.

Ireland needed a clean slate after the Euros. IMO we were never going to get out of this group so the best thing would've been to write it off, get a new manager in, ship out the old guard (some of whom went by their own accord anyway) and prepare for Euro 2016.

By then, the new boss plus a core group of young players would have had a campaign behind them with games against good sides and it would set us up well for Euros qualifiers.

As it is, we're in the same situation where we won't qualify but with deadwood still in the squad and an over the hill manager.

"We are where we are" as the tired old phrase goes, but it's not how it should be.

Aenaes

Xavi6 wrote: »

He shouldn't have been given a contract before the Euros and he should have gone after, simple as that for me.

Ireland needed a clean slate after the Euros. IMO we were never going to get out of this group so the best thing would've been to write it off, get a new manager in, ship out the old guard (some of whom went by their own accord anyway) and prepare for Euro 2016.

By then, the new boss plus a core group of young players would have had a campaign behind them with games against good sides and it would set us up well for Euros qualifiers.

As it is, we're in the same situation where we won't qualify but with deadwood still in the squad and an over the hill manager.

"We are where we are" as the tired old phrase goes, but it's not how it should be.

So Trap gets slated for Ireland's performances while they still have a fighting chance to qualify and will continue to fight yet you would prefer a new manager who would effectively give up on this campaign?

Euro2016 will be easier to qualify for, I don't see why we should be preparing for it 3 years in advance.

Xavi6

Aenaes wrote: »

So Trap gets slated for Ireland's performances while they still have a fighting chance to qualify and will continue to fight yet you would prefer a new manager who would effectively give up on this campaign?

Performances and results are two different things. Results wise Trap can't be argued against as such, we don't lose to minnows (although we've come close). He's finished though given his age so we should have moved on when we had the chance.

He is rightly slated for the performances because they've been largely awful.

Euro2016 will be easier to qualify for, I don't see why we should be preparing for it 3 years in advance.

Why not? There's a massive generation of players either gone or on the way out and replacements haven't been blooded until recently, and that's only through having no choice.

It's not three years in advance either, the qualifiers for Euro 2016 start in September 2014, less than two years from now and just over two years from Euro 2012.

The point of a new manager is to work in tandem with new players and not be set in their ways like Trap is.

madma

@xavi - its ridiculous to say its over after getting 6 points from 9 and losing to germany, the group is open.. yes we have played gash, but there was an improvemnt tonight even if it was against minnows...

after our next competitive game against swedan we have 3 home games. if we get a result in swedan, a draw would be ideal, we would be on course and hope for a win agains them at home

to say our chances our over is silly

I agree with wanting to ge trap out, but i wouldnt write off our chances... IF he is still in charge we may well qualify BUT i would expect a reapeat of the euros with the depressing midfield of whelan and andrews in centre midfield

Hank Scorpio

I don't know how you can defend someone who brings on an unattached Paul Green at the Euros ahead of Gibson who plays weekly for a good Everton side. I don't know how you can play Cox on the wing and leave McClean on the bench when Cox offers absolutely nothing there. I don't know how Trap fielded Ward game after game when a better player in Wilson was there available and continues to field O'Dea center half. I also don't understand how Robbie Keane continues to start, hes really hindering Shane Longs progression in the Irish Team, with all due respect to Keane hes been an excellent player for Ireland but he's really overstaying his welcome.

Paid a bucket load of money, doesn't attend games, selects players when much better replacements are available, doesn't speak good English still so communication is obviously a factor, plays stone age football and has horrible man management.

If the players Trap has suddenly started not to ignore, i.e. Coleman, Wilson, McCarthy along with a few others like Long, McClean, Gibson, Clark we could get a nucleus of a really exciting young team but the changes have to happen now to give us the best possible chance to quality for future tournaments. Out with the old and in with the new.

Trappatoni has done a good job for the Irish team, he could have done himself a favour by allowing some of the better "fringe" players chances to play in the Euros or at least in the friendlies leading up it. I think that's the main reason the media are having a field day, he really shot himself in the foot, nice man and all as he appears to be, but his time is up imo

Xavi6

madma wrote: »

@xavi - its ridiculous to say its over after getting 6 points from 9 and losing to germany, the group is open.. yes we have played gash, but there was an improvemnt tonight even if it was against minnows...

after our next competitive game against swedan we have 3 home games. if we get a result in swedan, a draw would be ideal, we would be on course and hope for a win agains them at home

to say our chances our over is silly

I agree with wanting to ge trap out, but i wouldnt write off our chances... IF he is still in charge we may well qualify BUT i would expect a reapeat of the euros with the depressing midfield of whelan and andrews in centre midfield

I understand my pessimism will be pounced upon but I don't think it's in any way unrealistic to say our chances of not making the World Cup are a lot greater than the chances of being in Brazil given the teams we're up against and the fact that even second spot only gets us a playoff.

Everybody talks about Sweden being on a par with us apart from Zlatan, it being a battle with them for second etc, but there's been little talk of Austria who, on their day, could beat us. They only lost 2-1 at home to Germany and picked up a credible four points from their two games against Kazakhstan. I wouldn't be surprised if they finished above us as well.

If we don't blood the young players now when do you propose it's done? At the start of the next campaign? If so then it'll take them a while to find their feet and we're pissing in to the wind.

Instead, they could have two years of competitive internationals under their belt with a new, fresh managerial approach. Surely you can see how that would stand us to good stead for the future?

madma

Xavi6 wrote: »

I understand my pessimism will be pounced upon but I don't think it's in any way unrealistic to say our chances of not making the World Cup are a lot greater than the chances of being in Brazil given the teams we're up against and the fact that even second spot only gets us a playoff.

Everybody talks about Sweden being on a par with us apart from Zlatan, it being a battle with them for second etc, but there's been little talk of Austria who, on their day, could beat us. They only lost 2-1 at home to Germany and picked up a credible four points from their two games against Kazakhstan. I wouldn't be surprised if they finished above us as well.

If we don't blood the young players now when do you propose it's done? At the start of the next campaign? If so then it'll take them a while to find their feet and we're pissing in to the wind.

Instead, they could have two years of competitive internationals under their belt with a new, fresh managerial approach. Surely you can see how that would stand us to good stead for the future?

I can understand the pessimism from people after seeing ireland play in evey game since we beat estonia 4-0 away. I was the same and felt we were well and truly rubbish in the games...
For tonights game it was really refreshing to see coleman to play again and also to see wilson start and brady although brady a bit too soon...
Im hoping trap would be thinking this way in the futre but of course not playing long or the likes of clark over o'dea is still worrying..

there is a break now and i feel there is nobody at the moment that could come in and fix situations in time.. i feel trap may well deserve his chance at finishing this qualifying group.. the games really go down to the swedan and austria ones..

austria won 4-0 tonight.. they look strong at home but weakish away.. i wouldnt write them off either..

Father Damo

I had sod all else to do and, being away from home, I am lucky if I get to see the matches live or some highlights, let alone bother my arse looking up the interviews and press conferences.

Being bored, and having looked them up, I do feel somewhat sorry for him. He does, at least pre euros, especially in the interview he gave after the first Estonia match, seem to have a genuine want to succeed and do well with us. I think half the problem really is now that he does not have a relateable Irish football man there to translate 100% of the time with Liamo having left. There have always been a few minor issues and fall outs but the amount that have happened before Brady vs after Brady is enormous (not forgetting Brady, being a youth development head, would have a fair idea on how to handle young players more diplomatically).

With all that, I reckon the only acceptable way to have him stay would be if Brady agreed to come back on board. Because since he left we have had near mutiny and got by on luck more than anything.

kincsem

Trapattoni is competent. An international manager is limited in his selections by the country of birth and ancestry of players. A club manager can buy in talent, an international manager can search for talent.

Ireland is a small country of four million people. Germany has 82 million. The Faroe Islands have a population of 50,000. So Germany > Ireland > Faroe Islands. We recently lost to Spain, Italy, Germany. Did people expect anything else?

Why does our play have to be attractive? The OP laid out Trapattoni's record and it is satisfactory.

Carcharodon

Anyone still hopeful of getting out of this group is deluded, 4th will be a realistic finish, got to love the hope but not a chance in hell.....

Gbear

We might play marginally better football under a different manager but we don't have the talent to make any significant improvement and we certainly don't have the talent to even have a hope of getting out of a group with 3 teams in the top 8 in it.

We were no more humiliated at the Euros than I would be if I was rejected by Jessica Biel.

We're ****e. We don't have the culture of technical based football like some other small countries do. That limits the impact a more possession based manager can have.

Trapattoni mightn't be getting the absoute best in results possible with this group but it's damn close.


I think part of the problem is the number of people who watch the English league (not because I give a toss about LOI) and usually see a standard of play there that is completely divorced from the reality of Irish international players. We're spoiled and alot of Irish fans have lost a sense of perspective of how **** we are and what we should expect from massively limited players.

grenache

Higher wrote: »

Trappatoni's current record is 22 wins, 17 draws and 12 loses. The teams he has lost to are: Germany, Italy x 2, Spain, Croatia, Russia x 2, Brazil x 2, Argentina, Uruguay, Norway.

Other than Norway the teams Trappatoni has lost to are some of the best in the world. So you can't honestly fire him on his win-loss record. Other than Norway, none of those loses were unexpected.

Furthermore Trappatoni brought Ireland on a 11 game clean sheat. He won the Carling Nations Cup, he qualified for the Euros and if not for a refereeing blunder in France he could very well have qualified Ireland for the World Cup.

So could someone please explain to me again why he needs to go? Is it because he lost to Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain, Argentina, Uruguay and Russia? Or is it because he didn't qualify from a Euros group containing two of the european finalists?

Has anyone else noticed that Ireland only have ONE Champions League player who plays for the mighty Spartak Moscow. We have no players that are starting for any top teams. Qualifying for the Euros and losing only to teams ranked in the top 10 in the world (other than Norway) over a 4 year period is nothing to be sacked over.

He qualified us for the Euros. He could very easily have qualified us for the World Cup if not for Henry. And now, admist all the press circling, he has us on track to finish second and qualify.

Lets stop the hysteria, be realistic about our team, look at our record under Trap and stop listening to the media who clearly have a massive agenda.

You need to look up the word 'context' in the dictionary.

LuckyLloyd

Leejo wrote: »

"@McDonnellDan: Trap directly asked if players understood game plan. Response? “There is 3 or 4 players, 1 metre 88, strong. With personality.” There you go"

"@McDonnellDan: Trapattoni asking if anyone has watched the DVD of Kazakhstan game. He is still insisting that Ireland played well. No player has said that."

How much does he get per annum again?

Is that the guy who wrote the "shameless" article in the Independent yesterday? If so, let me be the first to say that nobody should be paying attention to anything he has to say.

LuckyLloyd

SantryRed wrote: »

So there's a prospective from the criticisms of Trappatoni. I still don't think he should be sacked now as it'd cost too much money for the FAI, but I definitely don't think his contract should be renewed.

I wouldn't renew his contract post Rio even if we made the semis of the tournament proper on account of his age, and I seem to be one of his biggest fans. This was always his last campaign, one which he clearly earned.

SantryRed

kincsem wrote: »

Trapattoni is competent. An international manager is limited in his selections by the country of birth and ancestry of players. A club manager can buy in talent, an international manager can search for talent.

Ireland is a small country of four million people. Germany has 82 million. The Faroe Islands have a population of 50,000. So Germany > Ireland > Faroe Islands. We recently lost to Spain, Italy, Germany. Did people expect anything else?

Why does our play have to be attractive? The OP laid out Trapattoni's record and it is satisfactory.

His record is lucky.

geeky

Here's my proposal to settle the matter.

Put together a team from the various players he's fallen out with or cast aside down the years (it's a good one). Let Kerr manage them in a match against the loyalists. 90 minutes plus extra time and penalties to decide who gets the job.

Yes, I know this would never, ever happen. But it would be seven shades of awesome if it did. It would also fill the Aviva, and almost certainly get a bit commercial sponsor.

stesaurus

geeky wrote: »

Here's my proposal to settle the matter.

Put together a team from the various players he's fallen out with or cast aside down the years (it's a good one). Let Kerr manage them in a match against the loyalists. 90 minutes plus extra time and penalties to decide who gets the job.

Yes, I know this would never, ever happen. But it would be seven shades of awesome if it did. It would also fill the Aviva, and almost certainly get a bit commercial sponsor.

Stick Keane in charge and lets get a proper civil war started

BOHtox

patmac wrote: »

He's lucky, his team plays pants football, he is overpaid, he doesn't go to matches but judges players by what they do in training. He should go

Bohs played shít football in 2008 and won the league and cup double... they played great football this year and will probably finished 6th or so. Give me the option of good football or good results and I'm pretty sure you know what I'd pick...

homerjay2005

traps record is now 2 defeats in 23 qualifying games. in all competitive games its 6 defeats in 29, with the defeats being to 6 of the best teams in world football at the moment. sometimes, people are never happy and alot of other countries would be delighted with that record.

Dunphy has brainwashed alot of people into thinking the likes of Pilkington and Hoolahan are the new messiahs, when the reality is that they are no better than the likes of Whelan, Mccarthy and the otheres we already have.

homerjay2005

Carcharodon wrote: »

Anyone still hopeful of getting out of this group is deluded, 4th will be a realistic finish, got to love the hope but not a chance in hell.....

2nd is as "realistic" as 4th....Sweden are hit and miss, though the main problem now is that last nights draw for them means we need to beat them at least once to finish second.

the main realistic finish is 3rd, about 3 points behind Sweden as i would expect us to end up on around 19/20 points.

Patsy fyre

That would be about right given that we are the third seeds in the group.
The games against Austria should determine traps future not losing to Germany.

geeky

s.welstead wrote: »

Stick Keane in charge and lets get a proper civil war started

Nah, I think Keane vs McCarthy should be the undercard. Make the U-21s choose sides in that.

My plan may have been influenced somewhat by The Hunger Games.

cardwizzard

There is arguements on both sides, if he should stay or go, and both understandable. Half decent results, got us to a tourney which was great.

His style of play is caveman. Selections leave us mistified at times, like cox on the wing, Paul Green, O'Dea etc. His tactics are ice age.

More important is that he has lost the public support. Will you go to Aviva and drop €50 to see that rubbish against Sweden or Austia, never mind the rest of the dregs in the group.

I think it will come down to a financial decision on the FAI's behalf. They are probably running around counting the coffers to see if they can get rid off him. Giving him a new contract before the Euros was IMO criminal.

I can't remember the last time I got excited for an Ireland qualifier. Where is our passion and our pride. The hunger that drove the team. Stan didn't have it, and Trap has sucked it dry. I was fearful last night, ffs fearful playing plumbers and doctors.

With that said, I don't think the suits will get shot of him. And if it doesn't work out then Delaney will have to go also.

professore

Higher wrote: »

Yeah there was a severe lack of pride against Russia and France :rolleyes:

France is years ago. Dunne, Given and Duff showed pride, the rest were anonymous and collapsed as usual. Andrews and Whelan can't play a simple pass FFS.

professore

homerjay2005 wrote: »

2nd is as "realistic" as 4th....Sweden are hit and miss, though the main problem now is that last nights draw for them means we need to beat them at least once to finish second.

Not necessarily, they could easily drop points elsewhere. These groups never have all teams beating teams they are supposed to beat.

starbelgrade

Augmerson wrote: »

I never said anybody was too stupid to understand my own view point .

Really...?

Augmerson wrote: »

Sorry but if you need this explained to you then you probably won't understand the answer anyway.

Augmerson

starbelgrade wrote: »

Really...?

No really, don't insinuate anything here. My tone is acidic for sure but I never implied and have never implied at any time while using these forums that another poster was stupid. OP has a very tunnel-vision like view of Trapattoni's reign and in all the posts since doesn't seem to acknowledge the vast problems with his set-up. This irks me.

Backstreet Moyes

Xavi6 wrote: »

He shouldn't have been given a contract before the Euros and he should have gone after, simple as that for me.

Ireland needed a clean slate after the Euros. IMO we were never going to get out of this group so the best thing would've been to write it off, get a new manager in, ship out the old guard (some of whom went by their own accord anyway) and prepare for Euro 2016.

By then, the new boss plus a core group of young players would have had a campaign behind them with games against good sides and it would set us up well for Euros qualifiers.

As it is, we're in the same situation where we won't qualify but with deadwood still in the squad and an over the hill manager.

"We are where we are" as the tired old phrase goes, but it's not how it should be.

I agree with most of your points but why would bringing in new players make this campaign a write off. It would mean bringing in better players which would make our chances better to qualify. I dont like people saying they need experience most of the players left out are performing in the Premiership and are better than whats playing.

The likes of Clark, Coleman, Wilson, McCarthy, Gibson, Mclean and Long are all Premiership regulars and not exactly kids. Playing these players reguarly now is how we have a chance of qualifying. In 2 years time going by rough ages Clark will be 24, Coleman 25, Wilson 27, McCarthy 24, Gibson 27, McClean 25 and Long 27. They shouldnt have to wait 2years sitting along while inferior players are playing instead of them. These players are being treated so unfair will they even want to play for Ireland. People say their young players who lack experience. The fact is their all early to mid twenties who play at a higher level to the players that are playing ahead of them. I hear people saying we dont have the players i really think thats nonsense. We could field a team capable of finishing 2nd in this group if we played our best players. That team below i think would have every chance of beating Sweden.

Westwood

Coleman O Shea Clark Wilson

Meyler

McCarthy Gibson

McGeady McClean

Long

KELTICKNIGHTT

13 threads on and the anti trap still talking horse, do you realistic Believe changing a manager will make a huge difference based on past , some of are same lot who wanted kerr and mc Carthy out thinking that changing manager then would change things, when stan was in charge, then we where at lowest point .
manager is only part of problem , any one with some brian cells can see that, some on here seem to believe everything dumphy says , most can't stand him or listen to him, he's good for ratings
if the manager gets changed, it be same as in past, wont ,make a huge difference, and same anti trap people here will be looking for next manger to be changed because the so called experts here think they know better
than anyone , and the anti-trap , who where anti- kerr will want to change manager again and again.
some of you are talikng about players who not going to happen , some of you are in a coma or something and talking complete horse ###
we don't have the players, very rarely did ,
players are responsible people and are paid as pro's in there clubs but can't do same for there country, yes its a managers job to get it out of them , only manager outside of jack did this well and he played long ball too ,

some of you to not get beat well by countrys like Spain , Germany , Portugal, the biggest top international team in the world, in our world cup group, couple of those teams hammered us and went in to finals but you lot expected ireland to do better againist them , WHAT, BEAT THEM are you that daft or blind , IRELAND IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND NEVER WILL .
why are you so surprised ireland got beat , 2 of goal where almost own goal by mistakes , you could say even 3 of them ,
that night on field late in second half, ireland didn't know what to do, BOTH PLAYERS AND MANAGER where at fault, plus we don't have a good leader on pitch, o shea couldnt lead anyone , he can barely play ,

pass rate and holding onto the ball is crap, has been in kerr time, stan time and trap time and probably next in next managers time ,
most people out side so called experts here , don't expect much from irish team any more, there was few promising players other night , we see how they develop but takes more than changing manager and few players , but im sure the so called experts here will say otherwise and put out stats and players they think and player most know will not play regardless for Ireland.
Ireland wasn't good enough to go to euro's and aren't good enough to go to Brazil, if Ireland gets there, they probably get hammered , simple as that
some of you think we be ready for next euros. i dont think so , maybe next world cup after brazil , maybe
we playing england next year i think, we get hammered regardless who's manager. being realistic,
we don't have the players to play good football like you want againist good teams like germany or spain or even Sweden.
we had luck on our side for good results but has ran out,
we need a leader on the pitch and leader on the pitch and the players to play like they can ,

weldoninhio

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

13 threads on and the anti trap still talking horse, do you realistic Believe changing a manager will make a huge difference based on past , some of are same lot who wanted kerr and mc Carthy out thinking that changing manager then would change things, when stan was in charge, then we where at lowest point .
manager is only part of problem , any one with some brian cells can see that, some on here seem to believe everything dumphy says , most can't stand him or listen to him, he's good for ratings
if the manager gets changed, it be same as in past, wont ,make a huge difference, and same anti trap people here will be looking for next manger to be changed because the so called experts here think they know better
than anyone , and the anti-trap , who where anti- kerr will want to change manager again and again.
some of you are talikng about players who not going to happen , some of you are in a coma or something and talking complete horse ###
we don't have the players, very rarely did ,
players are responsible people and are paid as pro's in there clubs but can't do same for there country, yes its a managers job to get it out of them , only manager outside of jack did this well and he played long ball too ,

some of you to not get beat well by countrys like Spain , Germany , Portugal, the biggest top international team in the world, in our world cup group, couple of those teams hammered us and went in to finals but you lot expected ireland to do better againist them , WHAT, BEAT THEM are you that daft or blind , IRELAND IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND NEVER WILL .
why are you so surprised ireland got beat , 2 of goal where almost own goal by mistakes , you could say even 3 of them ,
that night on field late in second half, ireland didn't know what to do, BOTH PLAYERS AND MANAGER where at fault, plus we don't have a good leader on pitch, o shea couldnt lead anyone , he can barely play ,

pass rate and holding onto the ball is crap, has been in kerr time, stan time and trap time and probably next in next managers time ,
most people out side so called experts here , don't expect much from irish team any more, there was few promising players other night , we see how they develop but takes more than changing manager and few players , but im sure the so called experts here will say otherwise and put out stats and players they think and player most know will not play regardless for Ireland.
Ireland wasn't good enough to go to euro's and aren't good enough to go to Brazil, if Ireland gets there, they probably get hammered , simple as that
some of you think we be ready for next euros. i dont think so , maybe next world cup after brazil , maybe
we playing england next year i think, we get hammered regardless who's manager. being realistic,
we don't have the players to play good football like you want againist good teams like germany or spain or even Sweden.
we had luck on our side for good results but has ran out,
we need a leader on the pitch and leader on the pitch and the players to play like they can ,

This is as far as i got, your point is not exactly readable. We will never beat the top teams?? Its daft to think so?? We lost 6-1 against the 2nd placed team in the world. Our closest neighbours just went AWAY to the 3rd placed team in the world and drew 1-1. They have a squad much worse than ours, but they play with pride, and fight and a never say die attitude.

Under Crappatoni we play with fear, over-awed at our opponents.

weldoninhio

BOHtox wrote: »

Bohs played shít football in 2008 and won the league and cup double... they played great football this year and will probably finished 6th or so. Give me the option of good football or good results and I'm pretty sure you know what I'd pick...

I see, i hadn't realised that Irelands fortunes were so closely linked with Bohs. Be sure to let us know when Bohs start playing like Barca and winning games so the national team can do likewise.

Why are good football and good results not compatible??

SlickRic

people need to start looking at the bigger picture.

yes, Trap's stats stack up quite well, and i don't think any other manager would have a better chance of qualifying this group of players for Brazil 2014.

true, but you have to start thinking of the damage Trap is doing.

many young players feel alienated. he's only starting McCarthy now because he has no Whelan. Coleman's only starting because of no Dunne and Sledge, and the fact he's fallen out with Kelly. i could list off all the young players like others have, but i won't bother.

we haven't beaten anyone we shouldn't be expected to beat. yes his stats measure up, but he got a lucky group last year, and a lucky playoff. also, many of the games were won, not because of any tactical nous, but simply by a combination of the players' fight, and luck.

he doesn't believe our players are capable of much. he's basically on record as saying that. i don't want that kind of manager for my national team. he doesn't watch Irish players play for their clubs. he just doesn't care.

and also, i don't want pretty football necessarily. but i want the team to inspire me with how they go about their business. the national team does not inspire me one bit right now. i watch it, and support them, but it really is a struggle.

and last night was an embarrassment. no pressure, no creativity, no drive, no heart. we played for about 10 minutes and scored 4 goals. but we were awful, and after 70 minutes, i wouldn't have been too surprised if we went on to lose the game. retreat, retreat, retreat. because the manager thinks we're too shít to play ball and control a game against the Faroes.

Trap may as well be given this campaign now, but his contract must not be renewed.

KELTICKNIGHTT

weldoninhio wrote: »

This is as far as i got, your point is not exactly readable. We will never beat the top teams?? Its daft to think so?? We lost 6-1 against the 2nd placed team in the world. Our closest neighbours just went AWAY to the 3rd placed team in the world and drew 1-1. They have a squad much worse than ours, but they play with pride, and fight and a never say die attitude.

Under Crappatoni we play with fear, over-awed at our opponents.

you read waht you want to read from it as a anti trap person, simple as that
i expect no less from a nati trap person.
IRELAND ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND NEVER WILL, you can read that
we don't have players
ireland can't pass ball well and hold ball, can you read that
good teams can't see easy how to get ball off ireland
we not talking a out our neighbours , we talking about ireland, start new thread if you want to talk about neighbours football

you probally where anti kerr too i bet and you be anti next manager because you find it easier to blame management than player to be responsible, as

i said already , same horse ## out of anti trap people
i care who's manager but i do care that players are pro's and player like school kids, that's not always down to manager , but i expect you blame management for everything

Hannibal

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Enough of this please. It is obvious that he has to go, for the following reasons:

1. He does not do his job. - He never goes to games to see the players and thus cannot formulate an accurate judgement of players abilities and form.

2. He displays a lack of knowledge of the available players - He confused Marc Wilson with another player and left him out of squads. This is a disgrace, especially considering Wilson's great form last year. Also, he was not aware that Ian Harte was Irish. Baffling.

3. He has alienated many players - Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Shane Long, Darron Gibson, Kevin Foley, James McClean, Stephen Kelly.

4. He has consistently refused to pick our best players, or at least give them a decent chance to show their ability - Ciaran Clark, Marc Wilson (until today), Seamus Coleman (until recently), Stephen Kelly, Alex Pearce, Wes Hoolahan, Seamus Pilkington, Shane Long, James McClean, Darron Gibson post-Everton move, James McCarthy (until recently)

Do you think Ian Harte should be getting into the squad? because I don't don't so it's irrelevent whether he thought Harte was Irish or Japanese.

Steven Reid last played for Ireland in 2008, he said he would only come back for Ireland if there's a position in midfield even though he plays right back for his club. He had a horrific injury run from 2006 until 2010 and even now he manages just over half of the league games in a season.
Andy Reid has a bit of talent but his club career has been patchy since he left Forest in 2005, he failed to make any impression in the Premier League.
I wouldn't rest my hopes on Foley or Kelly either, they are very limited players and Kelly in particular is only in the squad as a reserve right back he's very average.

Alex Pearce has only recently declared for Ireland having represented Scotland at u21 level, I was surprised he was in this squad with him playing in the PL now he will be back in the next squad no doubts.

You talk about Trap not knowing his players yet you criticise him for not picking Seamus Pilkington.. Anthony Pilkington though did play well in his first top flight season last year but Hughton doesn't seem to fancy him or Hoolahan this year.

Just on Darron Gibson, for me the jury is still out on him because he has never impressed me apart from having an excellent shot. Gibson needs to get a good run of games under his belt to really show what he has.

I'm not sure why the subject of Trap getting a new contract is being brought up.

This is his last campaign regardless of whether the team qualifies or not.

Liam O

Dotsey wrote: »

Just on Darron Gibson, for me the jury is still out on him because he has never impressed me apart from having an excellent shot. Gibson needs to get a good run of games under his belt to really show what he has.

You clearly haven't watched him enough if that's your opinion of him. He's a far better passer than people give him credit for but a far worse shooter.

Richy06

Yeah because that good run of games he had from Christmas to the end of last season with Everton didn't show much....

skeleton_boy

Traps record is great no doubt but I feel the issues with the players is very damaging to morale atm. Don't think he should go but we need to get a spark from somewhere.

AgileMyth

Higher wrote: »

Make me a good argument. What do you gain going to matches that you don't gain watching the match on t.v?

In fact I'd argue that if you're asessing a player then you're better off watching it on a dvd

If you're asking that theres no point in even talking to you, because you clearly don't go to games.

mark renton

skeleton_boy wrote: »

Traps record is great no doubt but I feel the issues with the players is very damaging to morale atm. Don't think he should go but we need to get a spark from somewhere.

Harry Redknapp is the man... nuff said

Open the door, bye trap -> Hiya Harry...

Downlinz

This whole saga exposes how sad and pathetic the Irish soccer public are, it's embarrassing. OP your defence is correct and the only thing any sane person would look at when judging the Trap era, the rest is varying degrees of needless tabloid tier hysteria. I would also add the fact that he's been seeded 3rd in both campaigns and finished higher than his seeding. None of Mick, Stan or Kerr did this in the 3 previous campaigns and Trap has done it twice.

Criticising his micro-management be it watching games, team selection or communication is particularly interesting especially when those critics usually accept his results have been tolerable. The mystery as to why his means are poor and his end result strong is apparently explained as "luck".

It's great comedy altogether though sad that this is the level of rationality in our countries supporters.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dotsey wrote: »

Do you think Ian Harte should be getting into the squad? because I don't don't so it's irrelevent whether he thought Harte was Irish or Japanese.

You dont think he should be aware of every irish player playing in the epl??? How odd.

Dotsey wrote: »

Just on Darron Gibson, for me the jury is still out on him because he has never impressed me apart from having an excellent shot. Gibson needs to get a good run of games under his belt to really show what he has.

What about his extended run for Everton last season? You think it was acceptable for Paul Green to get on instead of him??

Xavi6

john47832 wrote: »

Harry Redknapp is the man... nuff said

Open the door, bye trap -> Hiya Harry...

homerjay2005

i think Trap deserves to see out his contract and he is the best man for the job, while he has done some poor things, his record for us is pretty good.

peabutler

In my opinion, the problem with Irish football does not lie with Trap or the FAI, I think we're still stuck in the shadow of Saipan. In terms of football we've never managed to get over it. I feel the last ten years have been largely a write off because of what happened, For a number of reasons.

1) Due to Saipan, by the end of 2002 we lost our best player in Roy and the best manager available in Mick. Neither were replaced and in the Euro 2004 qualifiers and WC 06 campaign we looked like a shell of the team that had run Spain so close in 02. Okay this will partly come down to the fact that we lost some key players as they got on in age, but equally these should have been the peak years of Duff, Keane, Given and let's not forget the likes of Steve Finnan, Steve Carr, Andy Reid etc. I felt and still feel that far too many of our key players played well within themselves and never looked confident enough to force themselves on the key games we had at the time. In short we were vulnerable.

2) At the same time The FAI seemed to replace any sense of ambition the organisation might have had with a desire to keep the status quo, It was far to quick to sack Mick when the media began to heep pressure on him and in replacing him with Brian Kerr (albeit a worthy candidate) they knew they had a man who they could rely on to be wholly unspectacular whilst achieving modest to good results. When Kerr went they made one of the most horrendously miscalculated decisions in Irish footballing history in hiring Stan. The less said the better but from the start Stan was a terrible manager and I believe a total yes man. He was simply an FAI puppet. By 2008 Ireland had gone 6 years without a truly independent thinking manager.

3) We have one now, he was undoubtedly responsible for bringing Ireland from the doldrums. It is whether or not he can continue to get this Irish team results is the question. I am in many ways a Trap fan, I believe other than Mick Mc he is the best option Ireland has right now. However I also feel that the FAI as an indirect result of Saipan are attempting to take a step back and allow Gio to manage "his way" or at least were. His way has served to alienate some of our more talented available players and ultimately may prove to stifle our long term potential.

4) Lastly, I feel our senior players who were young in 2002 were deeply affected by the whole debacle, I feel that players like Duff, Morrison, Reid and O' Brien were scarred by the events and bar maybe Duff none of them ever grew to be the international leaders they should have been. In fact I believe that outside maybe Dunne, Ireland has lacked a real leader since Keane walked out in 02, and it's a real shame as when you look at the 02 squad it is littered with very very influential international players in Kelly, Holland, Breen, Cunningham, Kinsella, Quinny, McAteer etc.


So how does this all link into Saipan and today, while I feel that as a group of players young and upcoming players over the last ten years have been affected by the consequences of what happened in 02. The FAI make the right decisions over a very long period when it came to management (both at senior and u-21 level). It paved the way for a series of smaller yet significant incidents with key international players whereby either the player or managers have alienated the player ( eg. Stephen Ireland, Andy Reid and more recently Kevin Foley). Far too many of our promising players post 2002 never became the international players they could have been. We lacked leaders on and off the pitch. It also gave the Media a much greater say in Irish football as the FAI became more image concious.

Gringo180

Robbie Keanes comments last night summed up the attitude of the whole squad under Trap, he said that there still on track that they were always playing for 2nd spot and that they were never going to beat Germany. What a shocking attitude to have and more so from our captain, and in my opinion it all stems from Trappatoni. The players have lost all there confidence wearing the green jersey!

SantryRed

Gringo180 wrote: »

Robbie Keanes comments last night summed up the attitude of the whole squad under Trap, he said that there still on track that they were always playing for 2nd spot and that they were never going to beat Germany. What a shocking attitude to have and more so from our captain, and in my opinion it all stems from Trappatoni. The players have lost all there confidence wearing the green jersey!

Keane seems a hell of a lot more cosy with Trappatoni than anyone else on that team.

Gringo180

SantryRed wrote: »

Keane seems a hell of a lot more cosy with Trappatoni than anyone else on that team.

I think because he knows if Trap is shown the door thats his automatic starting spot & captaincy in the team gone.