A Defense of Giovanni Trappatoni

mark renton

Xavi6 wrote: »

I will return to this post of yours when ironical indication is required...

KELTICKNIGHTT

Gringo180 wrote: »

Robbie Keanes comments last night summed up the attitude of the whole squad under Trap, he said that there still on track that they were always playing for 2nd spot and that they were never going to beat Germany. What a shocking attitude to have and more so from our captain, and in my opinion it all stems from Trappatoni. The players have lost all there confidence wearing the green jersey!

complete bull
sweden is better team than ireland , when did you ever see ireland play as a attaching team , even before trap, ireland didn't, during kerr or stan or jack or mc carthy
spells over last 15 years maybe but over all, never,
4 managers on and still same
its down to quality of players we have, very simple

even during kerr time, Ireland couldn't pass the ball or hold onto it.
and you expect Ireland to play better againist the likes of germany or spain,
maybe keane is being realistic , keane said he expect Germany to top the group.

statss

Meyler Meyler Meyler Meyler

Why do I keep seeing his name in "ideal" teams.

What has ever done? Sunderland reserve player yeah?

Idbatterim

Ireland needed a clean slate after the Euros. IMO we were never going to get out of this group so the best thing would've been to write it off, get a new manager in, ship out the old guard (some of whom went by their own accord anyway) and prepare for Euro 2016.

By then, the new boss plus a core group of young players would have had a campaign behind them with games against good sides and it would set us up well for Euros qualifiers.

As it is, we're in the same situation where we won't qualify but with deadwood still in the squad and an over the hill manager.

Instead of him going now or after the campaign, play off or actual world cup proper, I see a 3rd option. See how we get on after the Sweden and Austria games in March, this would do 2 things 1) save roughly 6 months salary 2) if after those 2 match, qualifying looks like its out the window, the new manager would still have plenty of matches and time left to prepare for Euro 2016 qualification... Our next competitive match after those two, isnt until June for the Faroe Islands game at home. Then 3 months until we face Sweden in the Aviva...

ArmaniJeanss

statss wrote: »

Meyler Meyler Meyler Meyler

Why do I keep seeing his name in "ideal" teams.

What has ever done? Sunderland reserve player yeah?

Its the curious phenonenon in football that the longer you go without playing then the better your perceived abilities become. Known to us Liverpool fans as Aquillani Syndrome.

Aenaes

People say Trapattoni is overpaid, yet "realistic" successors being touted are Redknapp, O'Neill and Benitez? Try paying their wages..

The issue of Green coming on before Gibson against Spain is a loyalty one, I think. Green will always join up with the Ireland squad and train hard, yet he is way down the pecking order for selection. Gibson would have been in contention for a spot during these qualifiers while Green wouldn't, so Trap rewards Green with a substitute appearance in a lost game.

I still don't see the fuss over Gibson anyway, a midfielder who ran away from the ball when at Man. Utd.

clubberlang12

Gringo180 wrote: »

Robbie Keanes comments last night summed up the attitude of the whole squad under Trap, he said that there still on track that they were always playing for 2nd spot and that they were never going to beat Germany. What a shocking attitude to have and more so from our captain, and in my opinion it all stems from Trappatoni. The players have lost all there confidence wearing the green jersey!

One of the reasons Roy Keane was one of the best players of his generation is because he never settled for second best. Be it in matches, training, preparation or set up, the man would not accept that mentality. We all know the ****-ups made in Saipan and while i don't agree with Keane walking out on the team he only served to high-light the lax-a-daisy approach that is at the core of our football organisation and has now spread down to the team. Roy himself stated that what was the point in turning up to something just to take part. If you are there, believe you can advance further. This has not stemmed from Trap's appointment but it is hardly productive when a manager continues to put across the notion that the team is not good enough to compete against better teams or that he doesn't have the quality of players needed. You tell a child they are useless enough times and they will start to believe it. Roy Keane wouldn't have come out and stated we are only playing for 2nd place and while the man has not endeared himself to many in the time since Saipan, no-one can ever question his attitude towards being competitive and it's a shame we seem to have lost that.

noodler

Trap's reign:

1) Undoubted Luck

• Georgia in neutral venue + phantom penalty in first game
• Italy Red card in Bari (very harsh)
• Armenia keeper being sent off
• Russia away
• Estonia in the play-offs

2) Undoubted Results:

• Two losses in 22 qualifiers (excl Play-off defeat first leg with France)
• Two consecutive top 2 finishes.
• Actual qualification
• Rank and (possible) seeding improvment in next Euro qualfiiers draw (once Stan results are removed from the mix).

SantryRed

Aenaes wrote: »

People say Trapattoni is overpaid, yet "realistic" successors being touted are Redknapp, O'Neill and Benitez? Try paying their wages..

The issue of Green coming on before Gibson against Spain is a loyalty one, I think. Green will always join up with the Ireland squad and train hard, yet he is way down the pecking order for selection. Gibson would have been in contention for a spot during these qualifiers while Green wouldn't, so Trap rewards Green with a substitute appearance in a lost game.

I still don't see the fuss over Gibson anyway, a midfielder who ran away from the ball when at Man. Utd.

:rolleyes:

That's all this post deserves.

Gringo180

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

complete bull
sweden is better team than ireland , when did you ever see ireland play as a attaching team , even before trap, ireland didn't, during kerr or stan or jack or mc carthy
spells over last 15 years maybe but over all, never,
4 managers on and still same
its down to quality of players we have, very simple

even during kerr time, Ireland couldn't pass the ball or hold onto it.
and you expect Ireland to play better againist the likes of germany or spain,
maybe keane is being realistic , keane said he expect Germany to top the group.

I dont think Sweden are a much better team than us, bar Ibrahimovic our players are of a similar standard. The difference between us and the Swedes is that they go out and believe they can get a result against any team, unlike us who even agaisnt the likes of Kazakhstan, Armenia etc look scared ****less of the opposition.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Gringo180 wrote: »

I dont think Sweden are a much better team than us, bar Ibrahimovic our players are of a similar standard. The difference between us and the Swedes is that they go out and believe they can get a result against any team, unlike us who even agaisnt the likes of Kazakhstan, Armenia etc look scared ****less of the opposition.

was same under kerr and stan too, so no surprise there.
and guess what. Sweden always did even before trap, so still no surprise there, better committed players which Ireland in last decade haven't had same commitment .
so why can't Irish players pass and hold onto the ball better ??

briany

noodler wrote: »

Trap's reign:

1) Undoubted Luck

• Georgia in neutral venue + phantom penalty in first game
• Italy Red card in Bari (very harsh)
• Armenia keeper being sent off
• Russia away
• Estonia in the play-offs

2) Undoubted Results:

• Two losses in 22 qualifiers (excl Play-off defeat first leg with France)
• Two consecutive top 2 finishes.
• Actual qualification
• Rank and (possible) seeding improvment in next Euro qualfiiers draw (once Stan results are removed from the mix).

I agree on all points except the one in bold. Video replays of that one have been poured over and the jury was still out on where exactly the ball made contact but you cannot expect to come jumping out of the box, trying to stop a ball, with your arms raised up for all to see and then cry foul when the ref makes a call on it in the split second he has and from whatever position he's standing. In my opinion, it was only as lucky as any other time an opposing team member makes a bad decision in a game, this time it just happened to be the goalie. He panicked and that was the result of it. If anything I'd amend that third point to say that Ireland got Armenia at the perfect times. Got them at the start of the campaign when they were something of an unknown quantity and at the end when there was pressure on them like they previously would not have known and it turned out that they couldn't handle it.

Pro. F

kincsem wrote: »

Trapattoni is competent. An international manager is limited in his selections by the country of birth and ancestry of players. A club manager can buy in talent, an international manager can search for talent.

Ireland is a small country of four million people. Germany has 82 million. The Faroe Islands have a population of 50,000. So Germany > Ireland > Faroe Islands. We recently lost to Spain, Italy, Germany. Did people expect anything else?

Why does our play have to be attractive? The OP laid out Trapattoni's record and it is satisfactory.

Our play does not have to be attractive. However, when our team struggles to string three passes together and regularly gets out passed by vastly inferior opposition then there is clearly something not right. When our back four, midfield and strikers don't link up in defence and leave gaps all over the pitch that is a big worry. This is not an issue of attractive football, this is an issue of not doing the basics.

Trap's record is indeed satisfactory, but it is no more than satisfactory. It is no more than I would expect of any half decent manager. People who think Trap's record is something special (I know you aren't saying that btw) have not compared it to the records of previous managers and the actual quality of the teams we have been competing against.

Trap has said some scandalous things about Irish and British football. He has slated our players and said they are not intelligent enough for anything other than 442, in spite of the fact that they have all played in other formations. He has said that they are incapable of using possession any better than they do under him, in spite of the fact that they all do so in their club teams. He has singled out young players and said that they are not good enough for international football, some of them our best young players like McClean and Coleman. He has had constant communication problems and falls out with players nearly every time the team gets together. All of these things are extremely odd and worrying.

In that context the team are getting acceptable results. All the hammerings are excusable and the final standings are acceptable, that is true. But when you put it in the context of how Trap is behaving and how the team is performing in each game, it would be very strange to think that this team could not do better under a manager that did the things that actually make sense.

There is one of two things happening here. Either everything we know about football - passing, morale, organisation of defence, quality of players like Paul Green - is completely wrong, or Trap is getting results that are less than they could be. I strongly believe the latter.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pro. F wrote: »

Our play does not have to be attractive. However, when our team struggles to string three passes together and regularly gets out passed by vastly inferior opposition then there is clearly something not right. When our back four, midfield and strikers don't link up in defence and leave gaps all over the pitch that is a big worry. This is not an issue of attractive football, this is an issue of not doing the basics.

Trap's record is indeed satisfactory, but it is no more than satisfactory. It is no more than I would expect of any half decent manager. People who think Trap's record is something special (I know you aren't saying that btw) have not compared it to the records of previous managers and the actual quality of the teams we have been competing against.

Trap has said some scandalous things about Irish and British football. He has slated our players and said they are not intelligent enough for anything other than 442, in spite of the fact that they have all played in other formation. He has said that they are incapable of using possession any better than they do under him, in spite of the fact that they all do so in their club teams. He has singled out young players and said that they are not good enough for international football, some of them our best young players like McClean and Coleman. He has had constant communication problems and falls out with players nearly every time the team gets together. All of these things are extremely odd and worrying.

In that context the team are getting acceptable results. All the hammerings are excusable and the final standings are acceptable, that is true. But when you put it in the context of how Trap is behaving and how the team is performing in each game, it would be very strange to think that this team could not do better under a manager that did the things that actually make sense.

There is one of two things happening here. Either everything we know about football - passing, morale, organisation of defence, quality of players like Paul Green - is completely wrong, or Trap is getting results that are less than they could be. I strongly believe the latter.

where did he say this ?
and when was last time ireland did good passing football and held onto the ball good for long periods ??

Pro. F

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

where did he say this ?

In the press. I'm not searching for links anymore it's all out there.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pro. F wrote: »

In the press. I'm not searching for links anymore it's all out there.

the press said it, so it must be true so :rolleyes:

when did ireland have good passing football and hold onto the ball ??

Pro. F

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

the press said it, so it must be true so :rolleyes:

when did ireland have good passing football and hold onto the ball ??

No he said it in the press. Read more carefully.

Ireland passed the ball better under Kerr, McCarthy and Jack. Not that it is particularly important. Look at the players now, they all pass the ball better when playing with their clubs.

BOHtox

weldoninhio wrote: »

I see, i hadn't realised that Irelands fortunes were so closely linked with Bohs. Be sure to let us know when Bohs start playing like Barca and winning games so the national team can do likewise.

Why are good football and good results not compatible??

I was using a comparison. COM-PAR-I-SON. If you just don't get the comparison I doubt explaining it again will make much difference.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pro. F wrote: »

No he said it in the press. Read more carefully.

Ireland passed the ball better under Kerr, McCarthy and Jack. Not that it is particularly important. Look at the players now, they all pass the ball better when playing with their clubs.

maybe get your facts better would help in context in what trap actually said

last time we had good football was jack's time and mc carthy time, under kerr wasn't good football , people on here even then was giving out about kerr being too defensive too , do you remember this ?

so why can't the players hold onto the ball and pass the ball for Irish team , are you going to blame manager for their skill too ?
are they not pro's ?
last good manager ireland had was mc Carthy
people here wanted him gone.
then we had kerr , people here wanted him gone.
we won't even talk about stan :rolleyes:
it comes a time when players have too accept what they do and there actions on the field . most of these players don't worry , who's going to replace them.
look at the people in the past who where asked to be manager of Ireland and said no
now the press say mccarthy and kerr are interested in job if trap goes, of course they are , one million a year job , but , they are passed their sell by date,
problem is . will FAI get a good manager or just a manager they can afford ?

BetterCallSaul

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Enough of this please. It is obvious that he has to go, for the following reasons:

1. He does not do his job. - He never goes to games to see the players and thus cannot formulate an accurate judgement of players abilities and form.

4. He has consistently refused to pick our best players, or at least give them a decent chance to show their ability - Ciaran Clark, Marc Wilson (until today), Seamus Coleman (until recently), Stephen Kelly, Alex Pearce, Wes Hoolahan, Seamus Pilkington, Shane Long, James McClean, Darron Gibson post-Everton move, James McCarthy (until recently)

5. He selects players who are below the level of those that he leaves out of the team - Stephen Ward, Sean St Ledger, Darren O' Dea (He plays for Toronto for f*ck sake), Simon Cox, Glenn Whelan, Paul Green, Andy Keogh.

Trap Out.

So you think Trap cannot formulate an accurate judgement of players abilities and form because he doesn't go to matches, but you can identify our best players from your armchair?

Pro. F

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

maybe get your facts better would help in context in what trap actually said

I have my facts correct. Trap has said he doesn't believe Irish or British players can play anything other than a 442 and he doesn't believe that our players are skillful enough to play any other way than what he sets out. I don't care if you don't believe me, more fool you.

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

last time we had good football was jack's time and mc carthy time, under kerr wasn't good football , people on here even then was giving out about kerr being too defensive too , do you remember this ?

I remember Kerr's football and indeed I was one of the ones calling for him to go. He played over cautiously.

But two teams/managers playing defensive football does not mean that both will pass the ball in the same way. Kerr's team passed the ball better than Trap's.

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

so why can't the players hold onto the ball and pass the ball for Irish team , are you going to blame manager for their skill too ?
are they not pro's ?
last good manager ireland had was mc Carthy
people here wanted him gone.
then we had kerr , people here wanted him gone.
we won't even talk about stan :rolleyes:
it comes a time when players have too accept what they do and there actions on the field . most of these players don't worry , who's going to replace them.
look at the people in the past who where asked to be manager of Ireland and said no
now the press say mccarthy and kerr are interested in job if trap goes, of course they are , one million a year job , but , they are passed their sell by date,
problem is . will FAI get a good manager or just a manager they can afford ?

The players prove that they have the skills to pass the ball better and position themselves when defending better every week for their clubs. Every manager has a strong influence on a team and Trap is clearly having a negative influence on this team.

I don't care what other people wanted in the past or what other managers did. This is an almost completely new set of players at this stage. Worrying about what previous managers did from 5 to 10 years ago is irrelevant. The quality of player available to a team changes from year to year.

If these players really are not worried about who is going to replace them then that is obviously Trap's fault. You can hardly think that I agree with Trap's rigid selection policy and lack of competition within the squad.

If the pay for the job remains at 1.4 million a year we will have far superior options to Kerr and McCarthy when the time comes.

BOHtox

They've bled us white, the bástards. We don't play as expansive as Barca and we've had that taken away from us, not just from us, from our fathers and from our fathers' fathers.
Stan:
And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.
Reg:
Yes.
Stan:
And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.
Reg:
All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?
Our first tournament in 10 years
Reg:
Oh yeah, yeah they gave us that. Yeah. That's true.
Masked Activist:
And to the playoff of another,
Stan:
Oh yes... that playoff, Reg, you remember what that cúnt Henry did...
Reg:
All right, I'll grant you that the our first tournament and the playoff are two things that the Romans have done...
Matthias:
And the 11 clean sheets in a row...
Reg:
(sharply) Well yes obviously the clean sheets... the clean sheets go without saying. But apart from the euros, the playoff and the clean sheets...
Another Masked Activist:
Rebuild the team bringing in players like Keith Andrews and John Walters...
Other Masked Voices:
Robbie Brady... Seamus Coleman... James McCarthy...
Reg:
Yes... all right, fair enough...
Activist Near Front:
And the 23 wins...
Omnes:
Oh yes! True!
Francis:
Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if the Romans left, Reg.
Masked Activist at Back:
and the 17 draws meaning 40 results out of 53
Stan:
And the camaraderie between the manager and fans is great!
Francis:
Yes, we certainly know how to sing songs about Trap... (general nodding)... let's face it, we're the only ones who could with our fairly limited players

(more general murmurs of agreement)
Reg:
All right... all right... but apart from Euros and playoffs and education and clean sheets and the young players and roads and a new team and results and a good camaraderie ... what has Trap ever done for us?
Xerxes:
A win against Northern Ireland?
Reg:
Oh... a win against Northern Ireland?... shut up!

Hank Scorpio

I really hope you pasted that ^

Pro. F

BOHtox wrote: »

They've bled us white, the bástards. We don't play as expansive as Barca and we've had that taken away from us,

How many times do people have to say that we are not looking to play like Barca before people like you will stop posting shíte like this?

Just give us a number so we can keep saying it and eventually it will get through to even you.

BOHtox

Pro. F wrote: »

How many times do people have to say that we are not looking to play like Barca before people like you will stop posting shíte like this?

Just give us a number so we can keep saying it and eventually it will get through to even you.

I'm guessing you think all that post is serious

You poor, poor guy

Pro. F

BOHtox wrote: »

I'm guessing you think all that post is serious

You poor, poor guy

So you weren't trying to make any point with that post or agree with what it said, yeah? Yeah I don't believe you.

BOHtox

Pro. F wrote: »

So you weren't trying to make any point with that post or agree with what it said, yeah? Yeah I don't believe you.

I was making a point but I was exaggerating both sides of the argument for comedic affect. Guess you need to have seen the movie first

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pro. F wrote: »

I have my facts correct. Trap has said he doesn't believe Irish or British players can play anything other than a 442 and he doesn't believe that our players are skillful enough to play any other way than what he sets out. I don't care if you don't believe me, more fool you.

i don't believe you because you didn't say in its full story how it was said , only part of what you too from it as i would expect from a anti- trap fan
no surprise there

I remember Kerr's football and indeed I was one of the ones calling for him to go. He played over cautiously.
so you don't like kerr play either, so your solution, if players not performing, get rid of managers :rolleyes:

But two teams/managers playing defensive football does not mean that both will pass the ball in the same way. Kerr's team passed the ball better than Trap's.

kerrs team didnt pass good , if he was good for you, why did you want him out as manager ?, was it something the press said too ?

The players prove that they have the skills to pass the ball better and position themselves when defending better every week for their clubs. Every manager has a strong influence on a team and Trap is clearly having a negative influence on this team.
we not talking about club football , we talking international football
so again , why over last few managers , have irish teams not being good at passing and holding , or you going to blame managers again

I don't care what other people wanted in the past or what other managers did. This is an almost completely new set of players at this stage. Worrying about what previous managers did from 5 to 10 years ago is irrelevant. The quality of player available to a team changes from year to year.

so you don't care what other managers did in past for ireland :rolleyes:
so your saying players in past and managers don't matter
very strange thing to say ?
maybe if you look at ireland players we had over past 10 years might give you hint to how they can play , like passing and holding the ball ?
and take a look at players we have now , is the quality there ?

If these players really are not worried about who is going to replace them then that is obviously Trap's fault. You can hardly think that I agree with Trap's rigid selection policy and lack of competition within the squad.

you seem to like to blame trap for everything , what a surprise.
if there's no players there t replace them , they don't need to worry and most important , the quailty of player that can be chosen. yes or no ?


If the pay for the job remains at 1.4 million a year we will have far superior options to Kerr and McCarthy when the time comes.

if you have the quality of player, yes
we don't have many quality of players up against better teams and its also silly to blame manager for everything, but as a anti - trap person , it seems easier to blame trap
why do you think kerr did same being more defensive , we didnt have the quailty as in players and its a time when players have to accept what they do on the field and we still don't have a good leader on the pitch sinse roy keane

Pro. F

BOHtox wrote: »

I was making a point but I was exaggeration both sides of the argument for comedic affect. Guess you need to have seen the movie first

I've seen the movie of course. You failed in what you were trying to do.

noodler

Pro. F wrote: »

How many times do people have to say that we are not looking to play like Barca before people like you will stop posting shíte like this?

Just give us a number so we can keep saying it and eventually it will get through to even you.

If you are going to distil our achievement of qualifying for the Euros down to one game against Armenia, then you are being just as facetious.

BOHtox

Pro. F wrote: »

You failed in what you were trying to do.

You got me, bro

Pro. F

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

if you have the quality of player, yes
we don't have many quality of players up against better teams and its also silly to blame manager for everything, but as a anti - trap person , it seems easier to blame trap

The players show they have the quality to pass the ball better and organise themselves better defensively when playing in their club teams. Somehow they lose all that when playing under Trap.

It's not easier to blame Trap. It's easier to assume that the players are at fault and assume that everything Trap does is correct.

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

why do you think kerr did same being more defensive , we didnt have the quailty as in players and its a time when players have to accept what they do on the field and we still don't have a good leader on the pitch sinse roy keane

We clearly had the quality to do better than what Kerr achieved. Compare how our quality of players played before they scored under Kerr and how they played after. Kerr played overly defensively because he is an overly defensive manager.

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

If you are going to distil our achievement of qualifying for the Euros down to one game against Armenia, then you are being just as facetious.

I'm not distilling it down to one game. Go and read my last post to you again and stop pretending that you can't understand simple sentences.

KELTICKNIGHTT

BOHtox wrote: »

I'm guessing you think all that post is serious

You poor, poor guy

Pro. F wrote: »

The players show they have the quality to pass the ball better and organise themselves better defensively when playing in their club teams. Somehow they lose all that when playing under Trap.

It's not easier to blame Trap. It's easier to assume that the players are at fault and assume that everything Trap does is correct.



We clearly had the quality to do better than what Kerr achieved. Compare how our quality of players played before they scored under Kerr and how they played after. Kerr played overly defensively because he is an overly defensive manager.

PROF. F
you still haven't given me a good answer outside of blaming trap as manager for why still before and during trap as manager why irish players don't pass better ball and hold onto the ball
plus why even during jack's and kerr's time they where setup more defensive than attacking football ??
, don't give me club football excuse ,

Pro. F

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

PROF. F
you still haven't given me a good answer outside of blaming trap as manager for why still before and during trap as manager why irish players don't pass better ball and hold onto the ball
plus why even during jack's and kerr's time they where setup more defensive than attacking football ??
, don't give me club football excuse ,

Yes I have. You just evidently are not very good at English.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes I have. You just evidently are not very good at English.

IS that your answer a smart comment which suggests you can't answer the question, seem a trend with your posts here to other posters i see you :rolleyes:
all you can give is a weak excuse plus anti - trap horse##

so i take it you can't explain why irish players who play good club football can't play good for there country outside your excuse of manager ??????????
or maybe you need to check the press release for answer :-)

Backstreet Moyes

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

IS that your answer a smart comment which suggests you can't answer the question, seem a trend with your posts here to other posters i see you :rolleyes:
all you can give is a weak excuse plus anti - trap horse##

so i take it you can't explain why irish players who play good club football can't play good for there country outside your excuse of manager ??????????
or maybe you need to check the press release for answer :-)

Are you serious players go out and play the way the manager tells them to do. Like against Kazhakstan i think it was Houghton who was making the point about how we play. McCarthy who is not used to the system didnt know what to do. He was dropping deep to pick up the ball and the centre backs were running past him and hoofing it up the field. When the Kazhaks just headed it back up the field McCarthy was behind a centre back and they had too much space in midfield. Houghton even said some of the players didnt seem to know what their jobs were.

I presume you never played football if your unaware players follow the managers instructions if they didnt why would you need a manager. Look at Brendan Rodgers he asks his players to play the ball on the ground. Trap advises his players to hoof the ball into the air and why we why can struggle against bad teams. Im sure our players can play similarly good international football as they do club football but they can only follow the managers tactics and Traps are forget playing football hoof the ball forward and hope for the best.

Pro. F

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

IS that your answer a smart comment which suggests you can't answer the question, seem a trend with your posts here to other posters i see you :rolleyes:
all you can give is a weak excuse plus anti - trap horse##

so i take it you can't explain why irish players who play good club football can't play good for there country outside your excuse of manager ??????????
or maybe you need to check the press release for answer :-)

I have answered your questions and responded to your arguments. You are ignoring those responses and abusing punctuation. Your loss.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Nuts102 wrote: »

Are you serious players go out and play the way the manager tells them to do. Like against Kazhakstan i think it was Houghton who was making the point about how we play. McCarthy who is not used to the system didnt know what to do. He was dropping deep to pick up the ball and the centre backs were running past him and hoofing it up the field. When the Kazhaks just headed it back up the field McCarthy was behind a centre back and they had too much space in midfield. Houghton even said some of the players didnt seem to know what their jobs were.

I presume you never played football if your unaware players follow the managers instructions if they didnt why would you need a manager. Look at Brendan Rodgers he asks his players to play the ball on the ground. Trap advises his players to hoof the ball into the air and why we why can struggle against bad teams. Im sure our players can play similarly good international football as they do club football but they can only follow the managers tactics and Traps are forget playing football hoof the ball forward and hope for the best.

yes , i played football , did you ?
still doesnt explain why players don't pass ball good and hold onto the ball and give it away too easy, you can't blame manager for there skill rate
which seems to be your excuse

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pro. F wrote: »

I have answered your questions and responded to your arguments. You are ignoring those responses and abusing punctuation. Your loss.

you didnt answer why they can't pass good, hold the ball good only more excuses , no surprise there :rolleyes:
you do this alot in posts ?????????????????/

Pro. F

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

you didnt answer why they can't pass good, hold the ball good only more excuses , no surprise there :rolleyes:

Yes I did.

This could go on for a while.

Edit: Also: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes I did.

This could go on for a while.

Edit: Also: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

specially when you don't have a good answer to my question
or you can blame the manager :rolleyes:

Laois_Man

Higher wrote: »

Trappatoni's current record is 22 wins, 17 draws and 12 loses. The teams he has lost to are: Germany, Italy x 2, Spain, Croatia, Russia x 2, Brazil x 2, Argentina, Uruguay, Norway.

Some corrections;
We have not lost twice to Italy, Brazil or Russia.
The 12 defeats were to France, Russia, Croatia, Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland, Australia, Brazil, Argentina, Norway and Uruguay

Higher wrote: »

Furthermore Trappatoni brought Ireland on a 11 game clean sheat.

I don't know where this notion of an 11 game run of clean sheets comes from. Trap's longest consecutive run of clean sheets (if consecutive is what you mean) was 8. Not 11. If ur gonna list the 12 teams who beat us (wrongly), we can also list the opponents in 8 game clean sheet run; N. Ireland, Scotland, Macedonia, Italy, Croatia, Slovakia, Russia and Andorra. Also, We have only kept 2 clean sheets against teams ranked in the World's top 50 from 15 competitive games. Conceding 27

Higher wrote: »

Other than Norway the teams Trappatoni has lost to are some of the best in the world. So you can't honestly fire him on his win-loss record. Other than Norway, none of those loses were unexpected.

We have lost to 5 teams outside the top 10. Not one!

Some points you conviently overlook, we have not won one competitve game against a team in the top 40 since Trap came. The highest ranking team we have beaten in a competitive game under him was Armenia (who played for 65 minutes with 10 men after their 'keeper was sent off)!

Sergio

After reading so many posts from different people arguing about the players not being good enough and trappatoni is doing a great job blah blah blah. My Opinion of the whole saga is this,Ive been supporting Ireland for many a year and have been going to matches since the early ninties both home and away. The buzz around the irish international team is gone and thats why the cracks are starting to show now. We have always punched above our weight over the years and have been very successful on the international stage because our spirit and passion have always made this team raise their game when it counts. The Euros were a complete flop and ive never seen any irish team play so bad in an major tournament. Trap has had his time and now its time for him to go because that buzz around the international team has disappeared and will not return under him.

Mr.Nice Guy

Higher wrote: »

Trappatoni's current record is 22 wins, 17 draws and 12 loses. The teams he has lost to are: Germany, Italy x 2, Spain, Croatia, Russia x 2, Brazil x 2, Argentina, Uruguay, Norway.

Other than Norway the teams Trappatoni has lost to are some of the best in the world. So you can't honestly fire him on his win-loss record. Other than Norway, none of those loses were unexpected.

Furthermore Trappatoni brought Ireland on a 11 game clean sheat. He won the Carling Nations Cup, he qualified for the Euros and if not for a refereeing blunder in France he could very well have qualified Ireland for the World Cup.

So could someone please explain to me again why he needs to go? Is it because he lost to Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain, Argentina, Uruguay and Russia? Or is it because he didn't qualify from a Euros group containing two of the european finalists?

Has anyone else noticed that Ireland only have ONE Champions League player who plays for the mighty Spartak Moscow. We have no players that are starting for any top teams. Qualifying for the Euros and losing only to teams ranked in the top 10 in the world (other than Norway) over a 4 year period is nothing to be sacked over.

He qualified us for the Euros. He could very easily have qualified us for the World Cup if not for Henry. And now, admist all the press circling, he has us on track to finish second and qualify.

Lets stop the hysteria, be realistic about our team, look at our record under Trap and stop listening to the media who clearly have a massive agenda.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

peabutler

Trap stays, the only downside is that Mick might have a job by the time he goes, other than that it's the best situation.

simongurnick

Sergio wrote: »

After reading so many posts from different people arguing about the players not being good enough and trappatoni is doing a great job blah blah blah. My Opinion of the whole saga is this,Ive been supporting Ireland for many a year and have been going to matches since the early ninties both home and away. The buzz around the irish international team is gone and thats why the cracks are starting to show now. We have always punched above our weight over the years and have been very successful on the international stage because our spirit and passion have always made this team raise their game when it counts. The Euros were a complete flop and ive never seen any irish team play so bad in an major tournament. Trap has had his time and now its time for him to go because that buzz around the international team has disappeared and will not return under him.

The buzz is gone but it is good to see him bring some of the younger guys through now. I think second place is achievable but I think if we drop Trap now then we can kiss this campaign goodbye as you generally see a transition period with any new manager.
Also, talk of Harry Redknapp being a possible replacement makes me sick. The guy has no integrity. His flip flopping between Southampton and Portsmouth was a disgrace considering the relationship between those clubs. He strikes me as the kind of guy that would ditch us mid-campaign if he had a big offer come in from the EPL.

gosplan

Sergio wrote: »

After reading so many posts from different people arguing about the players not being good enough and trappatoni is doing a great job blah blah blah. My Opinion of the whole saga is this,Ive been supporting Ireland for many a year and have been going to matches since the early ninties both home and away. The buzz around the irish international team is gone and thats why the cracks are starting to show now. We have always punched above our weight over the years and have been very successful on the international stage because our spirit and passion have always made this team raise their game when it counts. The Euros were a complete flop and ive never seen any irish team play so bad in an major tournament. Trap has had his time and now its time for him to go because that buzz around the international team has disappeared and will not return under him.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Picking players, tactics, language, not going to matches. For me those have and always will the standard, no insight one-size fits all holes to pick in our current international setup. A good example is that no-one ever says Trap was right about Reid or Ireland, they just move on to say how shocking it is that he isn't picking McLean. If these people had their way, we would have no hope of a settled team.

The problem is we can't celebrate our international team at the moment and moreover, the problem may be that the players aren't playing for him anymore.

mikeym

Give Trap a chance Sweden and Austria havent beaten us yet!!!!

mark renton

mikeym wrote: »

Give Trap a chance Sweden and Austria havent beaten us yet!!!!

Not yet