what county is there the best land

grazeaway

greecy_joe wrote: »

a yard of top soil is not unheard of ,

i know of places around here with that kinda topsoil. was in wexford on hols a few years back and there were places 5 and 6 feet of topsoil. top notch farming down there

greecy_joe

grazeaway wrote: »

a lad in work is from Germany and is from a farming background so we were discussing this very topic a few months back. Back in the early 90's a German company did a survey of the land in the EU and in the emerging eastern country's for investors, and this lads brother was involved.

believe it or not but some of the best land in Europe is in Ireland its just that compared to the rest of Europe its in small patches. He asked his brother what they thought of Ireland and he said that there were 4 main areas that would considered to be in the top ranked land in Europe, north from the Wicklow mountains to the border area (Dublin, Kildare, Meath and Louth), the south east (wexford, Carlow and Kilkenny), the eastern half of cork and into Waterford and the suir valley, and the areas south of Belfast and along the Bann valley in the north. He also said that Ireland had a number of very fertile valleys and other areas dotted all over the county that these were prime land but when you take into the sizes compared to the rest of the country they were negligible. As most of the good land in Ireland is concentrated in the south and east of the country good land in areas outside of this was valued at a premium.

We have good land here but because of our climate we wouldn't be recognised for growing lots of wheat and maize, but we have a mild climate and have plenty of water. A key thing in having good land is having the climate to utilise it.

Yeah the best land in the world is considered to be on the northern European plain (from Bordeaux in France, through northern France, southern England, Belgium Holland Germany, Denmark, southern Sweden and through Poland and the Baltic to Finland Russia and the Ukraine, the central states in the the US and Canada, central California, Argentina, Uruguay and southern brazil, the Canterbury plains in NZ as well as parts of south Africa and Zimbabwe and the African high plains.

we may have good land in ireland but not enough compared to these places

good post , my point was that overall the land in ireland is not that remarkable , of course thier are areas of tremendous land , some of those countries you mention , i would not have thought were renowned for particulary good land

denmark
sweeden

thier is good land in south canterbury ( ashburton ) but most of the land in canterbury is pure gravel and requires a lot of irrigation , the land in southland is very fertile but it rains as much as ireland , as is the land in the waikato and taranaki in the north island , what makes new zealand special is not its land though , its the almost perfect climate ( that bit better than ireland ) for farming and the ingenuity of its farmers , kiwi farmers get the very last out of what they have , its in sharp contrast to somewhere like argentina , the land in argentina is far better than in new zealand yet the same knowhow is missing

greecy_joe

grazeaway wrote: »

i know of places around here with that kinda topsoil. was in wexford on hols a few years back and there were places 5 and 6 feet of topsoil. top notch farming down there

i didnt think anywhere in ireland had a yard of topsoil

grazeaway

greecy_joe wrote: »

good post , my point was that overall the land in ireland is not that remarkable , of course thier are areas of tremendous land , some of those countries you mention , i would not have thought were renowned for particulary good land

denmark
sweeden

thier is good land in south canterbury ( ashburton ) but most of the land in canterbury is pure gravel and requires a lot of irrigation , the land in southland is very fertile but it rains as much as ireland , as is the land in the waikato and taranaki in the north island , what makes new zealand special is not its land though , its the almost perfect climate ( that bit better than ireland ) for farming and the ingenuity of its farmers , kiwi farmers get the very last out of what they have , its in sharp contrast to somewhere like argentina , the land in argentina is far better than in new zealand yet the same knowhow is missing

yeah there is serious land in southern sweden, massive farms in skone (thats around malmo), they have a much better climate then us in general, much dryer, and a lot warmer in the summer. like you say the climate in NZ has a lot to do with their success but there is serious land there too, i thought it was nearer to france then ireland climate wise while i was there, though southland and otago can be a bit irish too. As for south america well Argentina was mainly grazing for decades and its only since the last 10 years that the tilling has moved out to the grasslands from the pampas. they tend to sow twice a year in places and drive on the crops as best they can. not great every year but they are working on improving the rotations so that the land can recover. lots of big farms bought by companies and investor's from Europe when the argentine economy collapsed a few years back. they hire a farm manager then contract out all the labour. if price of corn goes south they can just change it back to grassland raise cattle or sell the land and walk away as they will make the cost of the land back now and still be in profit, i think the benetton family have about 20k or 30k acres.

yeah there are places with good deep soil, not everyone is farming stones and rock...ha ha ha

Tipp Man

greecy_joe wrote: »

i didnt think anywhere in ireland had a yard of topsoil

Are you kidding me? Loads of place have easily got that amount. Usually about 6 feet here before you start hitting yella clay

Loads of other places would have that as well

Manoffeeling

Tipp Man wrote: »

Are you kidding me? Loads of place have easily got that amount. Usually about 6 feet here before you start hitting yella clay

Loads of other places would have that as well

:rolleyes:

Tipp Man

Manoffeeling wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Only 1 of the reasons why Tipp has the best land in the country;)

Hay_man

Tipp Man wrote: »

Only 1 of the reasons why Tipp has the best land in the country;)

I might be throwing a spanner in the works here, but would most farmers on the 'best' land in Ireland be of the church of Ireland faith?

Dont be daft

Hay_man wrote: »

I might be throwing a spanner in the works here, but would most farmers on the 'best' land in Ireland be of the church of Ireland faith?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3L0B2At_W4

Hay man at 0.49:D


The best land doesnt necessarily mean the most valuable agriculturally speaking.

We leased what can only be described as an estate up the country. Saw the soil analysis for some of the fields and it made for as good a reading as you'd see anywhere.
But it was the coldest, wettest b*stard of a spot I ever worked. It wasnt even close to growing the same grass as our home place.

South Tipp, Waterford, East Cork, Wexford has to be in general the best all round package (Climate, soil, infrastructure, topography, proximity to market etc. all very good)
But thats being very broad. You can almost have four different soil types in the one field in Ireland, never mind the one county.

rs8

Hay_man wrote: »

I might be throwing a spanner in the works here, but would most farmers on the 'best' land in Ireland be of the church of Ireland faith?

i wouldnt call it poor land from what i can see

bogman_bass

greecy_joe wrote: »

i didnt think anywhere in ireland had a yard of topsoil

my local town is twined with some villages in Picardy in France. They have 6 feet off topsoil!

needless to say there isnt a cow to be seen in the place and its all in sugar beet and wheat

pakalasa

In our corcas land, it is the same soil the whole way down. So I suppose we have at least 20 feet of topsoil.:D Pity the water table is only a few feet down.

Casinoking

I remember an aul fella telling me years ago that the best wheat growing land in Europe was around Tallaght in Dublin. He said it was a complete sin to see it being built on, if it was in any other country it would have been preserved for agricultural use. I think every county has a mix of land, even some of those being held up here as the best in the country have a fair share of poor land, be it wet hilly or rocky. Some of the best land I've ever seen is along the Wicklow coast around Newcastle and Kilcoole, no problem finding a yard of topsoil around there

tabby aspreme

In my corner of south Kildare you get anywhere between 8 and 20 ft of brown topsoil then shale or sand ,a digger man from boggy mid Kildare, only 15 miles away doing some groundwork on a site down the road recently and he couldn't believe it .

Btw most of the land around me is classed as disadvantaged due to the corruption that was involved with that scheme

greecy_joe

Hay_man wrote: »

I might be throwing a spanner in the works here, but would most farmers on the 'best' land in Ireland be of the church of Ireland faith?

strange question , this is 2012 , not 1912 , but since you asked

in northern ireland , yes , the unionist population is largest in east ulster which happens to have the better land

in the south , hardly , how could 5% of the population own most of the best land and besides , cavan , monaghan and wicklow are the three counties with the highest percentage COI population , not exactly golden vale

Manoffeeling

Hay_man wrote: »

I might be throwing a spanner in the works here, but would most farmers on the 'best' land in Ireland be of the church of Ireland faith?

You are very much right. But we can't dwell on the past but there is still that little divide. To be honest, prods are better farmers.

Casinoking

Manoffeeling wrote: »

You are very much right. But we can't dwell on the past but there is still that little divide. To be honest, prods are better farmers.

Wouldn't agree with that either, I know serveral COI farmers across several counties who are as clotty as they come.

Manoffeeling

Casinoking wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that either, I know serveral COI farmers across several counties who are as clotty as they come.

I don't know all of the COI farmers in the country, but the ones I do know are predominantly good farmers.

Pulsating Star

This tread reminds me of car trips with my dad back in the day. He spent more time looking at and discussing the merits of whatever land we were passing than the road ahead! Our family land here in poor old Galway is quite good I think.

Qualitymark

greecy_joe wrote: »

strange question , this is 2012 , not 1912 , but since you asked

in northern ireland , yes , the unionist population is largest in east ulster which happens to have the better land

in the south , hardly , how could 5% of the population own most of the best land and besides , cavan , monaghan and wicklow are the three counties with the highest percentage COI population , not exactly golden vale

The largest concentration of Protestants in Ireland (outside of the border counties) is in Tipperary. Excellent farmers on good land.

How that land originally transferred into Planter ownership is a wrong and a tragedy in history; but today the people who now own and farm the land are Irish people who contribute hugely to their country.

grazeaway

Qualitymark wrote: »

The largest concentration of Protestants in Ireland (outside of the border counties) is in Tipperary. Excellent farmers on good land.

How that land originally transferred into Planter ownership is a wrong and a tragedy in history; but today the people who now own and farm the land are Irish people who contribute hugely to their country.

yeah have to agree, have always been very uncomfortable when i hear people discribing the COI farmers (and not just the farmers) as PROD's (although I can do it myself from time to time, must be a irish thing. ironic as the missus isnt cataloic). I know things may have been very different a hundered years ago and god know there were plenty of issues here in cork but the fact remains that many of the members of the COI that still live in rural parts choose to stay. Not every PROD was a spy for the british and many of their familes have been in the areas a lot longer then some of the cathloic farmers living nearby. My folks are strong minded catolics but raised us to except people on their merits. There is a large COI community in the cork vallys and that is where most of the best land is, and if you've been farming it for generations your bound to pick up a few good habits.

Tipp Man

Qualitymark wrote: »

The largest concentration of Protestants in Ireland (outside of the border counties) is in Tipperary. Excellent farmers on good land.
.

Is this true? Where have you got it from?

Personally I would have thought the Laois Offaly area had the most Protestant farmers, with large tracts of land

Qualitymark

Tipp Man wrote: »

Is this true? Where have you got it from?

Personally I would have thought the Laois Offaly area had the most Protestant farmers, with large tracts of land

North Tipperary, to be exact. I was told it by people in Cloughjordan (where I was attending a Dramatic Society play about Thomas MacDonagh, which included the local Master of Foxhounds suddenly blowing his horn from the back of the hall, to wild cheers!)

Manoffeeling

Qualitymark wrote: »

The largest concentration of Protestants in Ireland (outside of the border counties) is in Tipperary. Excellent farmers on good land.

How that land originally transferred into Planter ownership is a wrong and a tragedy in history; but today the people who now own and farm the land are Irish people who contribute hugely to their country.

It is very simplistic to say that they are they Irish people who contribute hugely to their country. A good few of the ones I know will admit to having been at orange marches. Some can be very bitter and still strongly loyal to the crown.

Qualitymark

Manoffeeling wrote: »

It is very simplistic to say that they are they Irish people who contribute hugely to their country. A good few of the ones I know will admit to having been at orange marches. Some can be very bitter and still strongly loyal to the crown.

It's true; people are various.

Username John

Ah now...

This was an interesting thread, discussing good land, and now its all gone arseways with religion, what religion has the best land, who are the best farmers, blah, blah... :mad:

What if I said I don't go to mass every Sunday - I know, sure it has to make me a bad farmer, on bad land... I mean - how else could it work...

FFS

ford2600

Lot of pockets of excellent land still farmed by Protestant folk.

Areas of East Cork, Gowran Borris area, parts of South Tipp.

For most part in my experience, very tidy, good farmers.

Always seemed to be a people who's story was never told, not when I did history in school anyhow.

Username John wrote: »

Ah now...

This was an interesting thread, discussing good land, and now its all gone arseways with religion, what religion has the best land, who are the best farmers, blah, blah... :mad:

What if I said I don't go to mass every Sunday - I know, sure it has to make me a bad farmer, on bad land... I mean - how else could it work...

FFS

Western Pomise

Tipp Man wrote: »

That is a massive statement to make and i'm not too sure there is anything to back it up

In fairness just personal opinion from years of seeing great farms in 'good' land areas put to waste or lost through poor management....of course this happens in every county but moreso where farms provided a living even if farmed in a halfarsed way such was good quality of land...whereas like a football manager working with limited resources people up' Whest' on average ground produce good results in lot of cases.

Qualitymark

To expand the thread a bit, what's the best land *for what type of farming* in different parts of Ireland?

For instance, what's the best horticultural land? North County Dublin (much of it now built over) was traditionally the home of horticulture, with wonderful vegetables produced for the Irish market there. Orchards too.

The orchards of Armagh are famous (used to be a bus tour through the orchards of Armagh and the Glens of Antrim; would love to take it but now it's gone, dammit).

I had a passionate argument with a woman in a supermarket recently over the glories of Clare potatoes (me) with Wexford potatoes (her).

The beef of Meath is famous, and the sheep of Wicklow. (And probably the alpaca, if we ate them!)

grazeaway

Qualitymark wrote: »

To expand the thread a bit, what's the best land *for what type of farming* in different parts of Ireland?

For instance, what's the best horticultural land? North County Dublin (much of it now built over) was traditionally the home of horticulture, with wonderful vegetables produced for the Irish market there. Orchards too.

The orchards of Armagh are famous (used to be a bus tour through the orchards of Armagh and the Glens of Antrim; would love to take it but now it's gone, dammit).

I had a passionate argument with a woman in a supermarket recently over the glories of Clare potatoes (me) with Wexford potatoes (her).

The beef of Meath is famous, and the sheep of Wicklow. (And probably the alpaca, if we ate them!)

Alpaca, is great, had an alpacq steak in boilva back in my traveling days, one of the best peices of meat i have ever eat.

Yeah, good point on what we grow where, carrots are best in sandy soil so grew well done here, but there is not a huge amount of wheat compared to the east coast. Heard a stat that the higest concentration of dariy cows is in south west cork. we have an almost contuinous growing season down here along the coast and up to wexford mot years, so i suppose with the grass growing for longer you can get more from the cows.

tabby aspreme

The land around Finglas is very good for Puppy farming I believe though I haven't eaten any of them

greecy_joe

this thread seems to have transformed into a discussion about the connectiong between farming and religon which is an interesting one i suppose

a few points , someone refered to COI farmers and the orange order , this is largely incorrect , COI is anglican , the organge order is overwhelmingly followed by those of the presbyterian denomination and while the vast majority of the unionist population in northern ireland are presbyterian of scottish ancestry , the majority of protestants in the south of ireland are COI - anglican and have no real connection to the orange order , they by and large are of english ancestry going back centurys , the exception is of course the presbyterian communitys in cavan , monaghan and donegal

as for the idea that protestant farmers run a tighter ship , globally speaking , at least in the white western world , a farmer is usually a protestant , go to the usa , canada , australia , new zealand , the netherlands , germany , the farmers are nearly always protestant despite the sizeable catholic population , irish , italian or catholics from anywhere else who emmigrated to the usa , new zealand , australia , canada etc , rarely ever became farmers , they stuck to the citys , i worked on farms in australia and new zealand and the catholic churches in those rural communitys were either non existant or empty , i realise thier are many reasons for this but modern farming techniques owe more than a lot to protestants and thier close connection with the land

Tipp Man

Western Pomise wrote: »

In fairness just personal opinion from years of seeing great farms in 'good' land areas put to waste or lost through poor management....of course this happens in every county but moreso where farms provided a living even if farmed in a halfarsed way such was good quality of land...whereas like a football manager working with limited resources people up' Whest' on average ground produce good results in lot of cases.

Its impossible to say that - if you are judging it on appearances then the West looks great - loads of fine sheds, fine tractors - but how much of that is subsidised by jobs. It's a completly different ball game when you have to put bread on the table as well.

Regarding productivity - lets look at an example of 100 acres in the West and in Kilkenny for example. The KK lad is milking 40 cows and brings all calves to beef, mostly friesan and a few angus - he hasn't spent much on new sheds or parlours over the years, place is a bit ran down looking - so something that you would class as inefficient. His counterpart in the west also has 100 acres fine sheds etc, well looked after place, everything looks great, and is suckling say 40 cows top quality to beef (which is high stocking)

So what are these 2 farmers producing - well the KK lad is selling 50k gallons of milk and 30-35 beef animals every year and the West lad is selling at the very best 40 beef animals a year. So not a huge difference in beef output but 50k gallons of milk from the same acerage in KK. The kk fella also has a much better income if he is anyway smart about it

The point is that you can't judge a farmer by how neat his ditches are, how good his sheds are or how much a few top quality bulls make in the ring. Having all U grade cattle is great - but it in no way means they are better or more productive than a fella killing O grade Friesans

pakalasa

KK in Munster ???:D

grazeaway

Tipp Man wrote: »

So what are these 2 farmers producing - well the munster lad is selling 50k gallons of milk and 30-35 beef animals every year and the West lad is selling at the very best 40 beef animals a year.

thought kilkenny was in lienster!!!!

Thats a difference between good farmers not good land. Just cos we have better land down south and east dont mean we are better farmers

Manoffeeling

You are a certain amount right Joe. But during the troubles, many COI were supported by certain groups from the north, including the orange order. How many COI members would openly condemn the anti catholic displays that happen in the north?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My5cf2zlkpo

Tipp Man

pakalasa wrote: »

KK in Munster ???:D

good spot

Tipp Man

grazeaway wrote: »

thought kilkenny was in lienster!!!!

Thats a difference between good farmers not good land. Just cos we have better land down south and east dont mean we are better farmers

Actually its a highlight of the fact that sucklers are an inefficient form of farming as opposed to land quality

And i have just relocated kk:D

Qualitymark

Years ago I met a Dutch family who were visiting their daughter in Connemara. She'd moved in and found it was impossible to buy fresh salad vegetables. She scoped out the market - asked a bunch of hotels would they buy freshly grown organic vegetables - and went and got a loan on her husband's salary and installed five greenhouses. For the few years the family lived in Ireland she made an excellent living selling to hotels.

But the weird thing: her parents told me that her neighbours were furious at her "luck". Even when she offered to teach them how to do the same, share customers with them, etc, they continued to grudge her the success she'd made.

According to this family, the local soil was absolutely perfect for horticulture; she stocked her greenhouses with local soil plus bought-in compost.

Manoffeeling

We are a nation of begrudgers who stand in the way of our own light.

pakalasa

Qualitymark wrote: »

...But the weird thing: her parents told me that her neighbours were furious at her "luck". Even when she offered to teach them how to do the same, share customers with them, etc, they continued to grudge her the success she'd made.....

Plain old fashioned Irish Begrudgery, the dark underbelly of Irish society.:rolleyes:

greecy_joe

Manoffeeling wrote: »

You are a certain amount right Joe. But during the troubles, many COI were supported by certain groups from the north, including the orange order. How many COI members would openly condemn the anti catholic displays that happen in the north?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My5cf2zlkpo

you wont hear me defending the orange order anyday of the week , all i was saying was that not all protestant denominations are the same , neither are the cultural traditions they take part in

the irish goverment abandoned the nationalist population in the north , we know the rest

grazeaway

Qualitymark wrote: »

Years ago I met a Dutch family who were visiting their daughter in Connemara. She'd moved in and found it was impossible to buy fresh salad vegetables. She scoped out the market - asked a bunch of hotels would they buy freshly grown organic vegetables - and went and got a loan on her husband's salary and installed five greenhouses. For the few years the family lived in Ireland she made an excellent living selling to hotels.

But the weird thing: her parents told me that her neighbours were furious at her "luck". Even when she offered to teach them how to do the same, share customers with them, etc, they continued to grudge her the success she'd made.

According to this family, the local soil was absolutely perfect for horticulture; she stocked her greenhouses with local soil plus bought-in compost.

Feckin irish...

my missus would back you up on that, herself and her friends find somethings very odd about ireland. they would luv to buy local goods from local people but they are not there (and the ones that are there are over priced). I know she would luv to start up her own bussiness selling local goods and also importing food for ex pats livign here but she reckons it would nto be vibable as she woul dbe reliant on the ex pat market rather then the irish one. She has been eyeing up some secondhand greenhouse on the internet as she reckon the soil here will grow anything. Think i'll let her off and see how it goes.

bob charles

driving on the road this morning I think my father hit the nail on the head about farming round here when he said "bloody farmers in this country are just gone too old, with most of them well past their sell by date". Definitely past the best of land in the golden vale where its total output is down around the 25% mark I would think. None available to rent either as its all claiming free money of some description

jimmy G M

I spent some time working in Tipp a few years ago as well as travelling all around the country rubber necking and I reckon the land north of Nenagh towards cloughjordan is as good as I have seen.

Now I know ye Munsterites and Leinsterites wouldn't have any respect for it, but there is a serious vein of flat dry limestone based land running from around Athenry & Corofin in Galway across towards Shrule & Kilmaine in Mayo. Wouldn't have the depth of munster/leinster soils but fantastic livestock grazing country. Anyone driving on the N17 between Claregalway and Tuam would see it "Stone walls & the grasses green" as the Sawdoc's say

redzerologhlen

jimmy G M wrote: »

I spent some time working in Tipp a few years ago as well as travelling all around the country rubber necking and I reckon the land north of Nenagh towards cloughjordan is as good as I have seen.

Now I know yer Munsterites and Leinsterites would have any respect for it, but there is a serious vein of flat dry limestone based land running from around Athenry & Corofin in Galway across towards Shrule & Kilmaine in Mayo. Wouldn't have the depth of munster/leinster soils but fantastic livestock grazing country. Anyone driving on the N17 between Claregalway and Tuam would see it "Stone walls & the grasses green" as the Sawdoc's say

Sheep alley we call it and it is a serious vein of land with lovely square fields.

greecy_joe

jimmy G M wrote: »

I spent some time working in Tipp a few years ago as well as travelling all around the country rubber necking and I reckon the land north of Nenagh towards cloughjordan is as good as I have seen.

Now I know ye Munsterites and Leinsterites wouldn't have any respect for it, but there is a serious vein of flat dry limestone based land running from around Athenry & Corofin in Galway across towards Shrule & Kilmaine in Mayo. Wouldn't have the depth of munster/leinster soils but fantastic livestock grazing country. Anyone driving on the N17 between Claregalway and Tuam would see it "Stone walls & the grasses green" as the Sawdoc's say

i know someone from monivea in galway , land seems decent there

stanflt

greecy_joe wrote: »

i know someone from monivea in galway , land seems decent there

are you having a girraffe- have 2 sisters in the area. it really is to hell or to connaught

caseman

Skreen co sligo some great land their.I think one of the biggest dairy farmers in the country in that area 500 plus.

redzerologhlen

stanflt wrote: »

are you having a girraffe- have 2 sisters in the area. it really is to hell or to connaught

Jaysus stan, I always thought the land was fairly good from athenry up through monivea onto tuam...your lucky you didnt go further west!!