Garda Sergeant can't afford food

Japer · 21-10-2012 8:46pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

As i already explained in a previous post, the most a standard frontline Garda who doesn't get promoted (there's thousands of them) would get max between 750k and 800k.

thats 750k to 800k most of the people who are paying their wages and pension do not themselves getr as a pension pot. And there is noting to stop the ordinary Garda getting promotion + retiring with a pension pot worth 1.5 million or 2 million courtesy of the taxpayer - plenty do. Its very unfair when ( most of ) the net contributers to government coffers are struggling so much.

golden lane · 21-10-2012 8:49pm

Japer wrote: »

thats 750k to 800k most of the people who are paying their wages and pension do not themselves getr as a pension pot. And there is noting to stop the ordinary Garda getting promotion + retiring with a pension pot worth 1.5 million or 2 million courtesy of the taxpayer - plenty do. Its very unfair when ( most of ) the net contributers to government coffers are struggling so much.

the new irish aristocracy........??

Potential-Monke · 21-10-2012 8:51pm

They also pay their own wages. And, most people don't have to do the tough, hard and mentally stressful job that they do. €25k a year after you retire is not a lot for someone who has spent 30 years doing one of the hardest jobs in the country. Hatred, bitterness, spitefulness, or disliking aside, it is one of the hardest jobs in the country, and also one which requires a varying range of skills which are not needed in most "normal" jobs.

There is also plenty stopping Gardai moving up in the ranks. Stiff competition (going by the figures in the link i gave above, <20% get promoted to Sergeant, and it dramatically decreases from there on), other Gardai knowing someone that gives them the upper hand regardless of ability. There is a lot of lateral promotion, ie: to detective duties. This doesn't carry a pay increase, but an allowance, they still earn the same as the plain ole Garda.

Stheno · 21-10-2012 8:53pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

They also pay their own wages. And, most people don't have to do the tough, hard and mentally stressful job that they do. €25k a year after you retire is not a lot for someone who has spent 30 years doing one of the hardest jobs in the country. Hatred, bitterness, spitefulness, or disliking aside, it is one of the hardest jobs in the country, and also one which requires a varying range of skills which are not needed in most "normal" jobs.

I agree it's a hateful job and requires a lot of skills.

25k is the lower end of the pension though no?

And back on topic, how is this seargeant on 51k struggling?

Potential-Monke · 21-10-2012 8:57pm

Stheno wrote: »

I agree it's a hateful job and requires a lot of skills.

25k is the lower end of the pension though no?

And back on topic, how is this seargeant on 51k struggling?

25-26k is the most a member of Garda rank can receive. You've to be promoted to Sergeant or higher to get more.

He is possibly struggling due to bad money management and/or more debt than earnings. It's 65K for a family of at least 4. And there are a lot of agreement with his situation, but way way way more people giving out that they can do it better/live like kings on that wage.

Japer · 21-10-2012 8:58pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

€25k a year after you retire is not a lot for someone who has spent 30 years doing one of the hardest jobs in the country.

Being an ordinary police man / woman is not one of the hardest jobs in the country. For Gardai retiring with their 1.1 million pension pot now, they did not need great intelligence or great qualifications to join when they left school in 1982. Most were not the sharpest blades in the school class then, by a long shot.;) There are tens of thousands of different types of jobs in the country and a lot of people probably think their own is one of the hardest. Oh, and their pension from the taxpayer is a lot more than 25k a year on average too. Oh, and what other group can retire on such a great pension aged only 49?

Stheno · 21-10-2012 9:00pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

25-26k is the most a member of Garda rank can receive. You've to be promoted to Sergeant or higher to get more.

He is possibly struggling due to bad money management and/or more debt than earnings. It's 65K for a family of at least 4. And there are a lot of agreement with his situation, but way way way more people giving out that they can do it better/live like kings on that wage.

Thanks didn't know that.
It does sound like bad money management, or more a reliance on overtime to me. It is a lot of money to live on if you are fair.

Emeraldy Pebbles · 21-10-2012 9:01pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And there are a lot of agreement with his situation, but way way way more people giving out that they can do it better/live like kings on that wage.

Hmmm, and why do you think that is?

Grayson · 21-10-2012 9:04pm

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

Hmmm, and why do you think that is?

because he earn twice what most of us do?

catastrophy · 21-10-2012 9:06pm

Japer wrote: »

Being an ordinary police man / woman is not one of the hardest jobs in the country. For Gardai retiring with their 1.1 million pension pot now, they did not need great intelligence or great qualifications to join when they left school in 1982. Most were not the sharpest blades in the school class then, by a long shot.;) There are tens of thousands of different types of jobs in the country and a lot of people probably think their own is one of the hardest. Oh, and their pension from the taxpayer is a lot more than 25k a year on average too. Oh, and what other group can retire on such a great pension aged only 49?

Why do you consistently post incorrect information?

Japer · 21-10-2012 9:07pm

catastrophy wrote: »

Why do you consistently post incorrect information?

which bit do you think is incorrect, or do you just not like the truth being told?

Logical_Bear · 21-10-2012 9:08pm

Japer wrote: »

which bit do you think is incorrect, or do you just not like the truth being told?

all of it unless you back it up with links

Emeraldy Pebbles · 21-10-2012 9:09pm

Grayson wrote: »

because he earn twice what most of us do?

Bingo.

catastrophy · 21-10-2012 9:12pm

Japer wrote: »

which bit do you think is incorrect, or do you just not like the truth being told?

A Garda must be 50 to retire (not including exceptional circumstances, injury etc).

Potential-Monke · 21-10-2012 9:13pm

Japer wrote: »

which bit do you think is incorrect, or do you just not like the truth being told?

You keep saying it's worth 1.1 million, but i have proven that to members of Garda rank that it's not 1.1 million. The yearly pension for a retired member of Garda rank is 25k. Maybe 26k. Go back through my posts and you'll find that proof.

And maybe the job wasn't as hard back then as it is now, but i can guarantee you that simply passing your leaving cert is no longer adequate to join (i believe you need a number of courses completed to even be considered at this stage). But, is this why you didn't join? Was the job below you? Were you too intelligent to be a simple Garda? Or was it just not for you?

Also, do you not think that larger than normal wages and a good pension packet is required to get people to apply? No one would want to do the job of a Garda for minimum wage with a crap pension. Or maybe people would, but i can guarantee that if you're giving out about the service of Gardai now, i would love to see what you'd be saying if it was a minimum wage job. "How did your house get broken into?" "I left the back door unlocked" "You stupid c*nt, go f*ck yourself now for be so stupid".

And finally, 30 years of potentially putting your life on the line every day at work, being hated simply because you're a Garda, and possibly being targeted just for being a Garda or for "locking someone up" is long enough in my book. It's 20 years in the US.

tayto lover · 21-10-2012 10:19pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You keep saying it's worth 1.1 million, but i have proven that to members of Garda rank that it's not 1.1 million. The yearly pension for a retired member of Garda rank is 25k. Maybe 26k. Go back through my posts and you'll find that proof.

And maybe the job wasn't as hard back then as it is now, but i can guarantee you that simply passing your leaving cert is no longer adequate to join (i believe you need a number of courses completed to even be considered at this stage). But, is this why you didn't join? Was the job below you? Were you too intelligent to be a simple Garda? Or was it just not for you?

Also, do you not think that larger than normal wages and a good pension packet is required to get people to apply? No one would want to do the job of a Garda for minimum wage with a crap pension. Or maybe people would, but i can guarantee that if you're giving out about the service of Gardai now, i would love to see what you'd be saying if it was a minimum wage job. "How did your house get broken into?" "I left the back door unlocked" "You stupid c*nt, go f*ck yourself now for be so stupid".

And finally, 30 years of potentially putting your life on the line every day at work, being hated simply because you're a Garda, and possibly being targeted just for being a Garda or for "locking someone up" is long enough in my book. It's 20 years in the US.

You're wasting your time with Japer. He has a hang-up about the garda in general.

Japer · 21-10-2012 10:20pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You keep saying it's worth 1.1 million, but i have proven that to members of Garda rank that it's not 1.1 million.

If you include all ranks of retiring gardai its 1.1 million. Some get more, some get less. I gave you links.

Potential-Monke · 21-10-2012 10:29pm

Japer wrote: »

If you include all ranks of retiring gardai its 1.1 million. Some get more, some get less. I gave you links.

Well then you need to change your wording, the majority of the force don't get 1.1m (that's even if they live for 30+ years after retiring). The majority of the force, ie: those of Garda rank (about 80%) don't get that. If you wish to keep referring to the 1.1m then i'm asking you to use the term of Sergeant and up.

Madam_X · 21-10-2012 10:42pm

Japer wrote: »

So what do you think average public sector pay should be? According to the governments own c.s.o., its 49k a year.
Bear in mind (a) the country is bust and (b) in the countries bailing us out, its less (eg, in the UK its stg £ 21.5k a year ).

How did you infer I said they should be paid more? I simply said many are not overpaid. That doesn't mean I think they're under-paid. Averages are meaningless - many of the salaries included are moderate ones of 25-30k. I would agree some *senior* public servants are overpaid all right.

Japer · 21-10-2012 11:23pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

the majority of the force don't get 1.1m .

the average of all garda ranks is 1.1 million. Read the reports.

El Weirdo · 21-10-2012 11:26pm

Japer wrote: »

...1.1 million. ...

Japer wrote: »

...1.1 million pension pot ...

Japer wrote: »

... pension pot... pension pot worth 1.5 million or 2 million courtesy of the taxpayer...

Japer wrote: »

...average pension pot of 1.1 MILLION...

Japer wrote: »

... pension pot worth €1,100,000.00...

Japer wrote: »

... 1.1 million... pension pot...

Japer wrote: »

...1.1 million ...

Japer wrote: »

... pension pot ...1.1 million...

Japer wrote: »

... pension pot worth 1.1 million...

Japer wrote: »

... worth €1,100,000.00 ...

Japer wrote: »

...pension pot worth 1.1 million...

Japer wrote: »

...pension worth €1,100,000...

Japer wrote: »

... pension pot worth 1.1 million...

Japer wrote: »

... pension pot worth € 1,100,000...

Japer wrote: »

...pension pot worth 1.1 million...

Japer wrote: »

...pension is worth 1.1 million... pension pot was then woth 1.1 million!

Japer wrote: »

...pension pot worth only 1.1 million...

Japer wrote: »

...pension pot worth over a million euro ...

mod

Japer. You have made 29 posts in this thread. The above quotes are from 18 of them.

I, for one, am sick of the reading terms "pension pot" and "1.1 million" to the point that they have lost all meaning to me.

Don't post in this thread again.

/mod

Madam_X · 21-10-2012 11:33pm

That level of obsessive resentment must suck.

golden lane · 21-10-2012 11:39pm

Madam_X wrote: »

That level of obsessive resentment must suck.

if the poster is a hardworking taxpayer in the private sector......

he or she, must feel very hard done by........and if the posts are correct....with a lot of justification.....

uberalles · 22-10-2012 1:38am

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Madam_X · 22-10-2012 6:39am

golden lane wrote: »

if the poster is a hardworking taxpayer in the private sector.....

As am I, as are lots of people. Still not weirdly hate-filled and obsessed.

goat2 · 22-10-2012 5:44pm

Boombastic wrote: »

Here's the figures Lemming was aiming for (if they're not nitpicking, I am )

*52/year Outgoing
Mortgage (interest only) 14560
Mortgage Protection Insurance 780
Buildings/Contents Insurance 364
Food/Housekeeping 10400
Electricity Usage 1300
Heat/Fuel Usage 1300
TV licence 208
Waste Charges 260
Telephone/Other utilities 2236
Transports costs 6604
Educational costs
(college registration fees, children’s uniforms) 3900
Clothing/Footwear 3120
Medical costs (insurance) 3807.96
Repairs & Maintenance 1040
Other Expenditure 4368
Credit Union 2600

Total Outgoing/year 56847.96

It also must be noted that these are projected costs, not actual costs. Whoever is projecting these costs needs to check the price of things, for instance the TV licence

At first I thought €25 for heat/week ok, but we only need to use the heat 6 months of the year, max so are they projected to spend €50/week on heat during winter? how the frig are they heating the house??

breaking down those to my cost,
heat and fuel for me would be about 800 per yr, if house is properly insualted easy to keep the heat

got rid of phone, we all now have those pay as you go, so me and my partner use about 40euro per month keep both phones going

electricity averages out for us at one hundred and sixty every two months. it would be lots less if we did not have the young ones leaving tv and computers on standby and forgetting to switch off yard lights, and so on.
bin charges for the year in my place last year was 370 euro
clothing footwear, less than a thousand for two, pennies best,
when it says medical costs, does that mean insurance and gp visits along with medicine

Manny Pacquiao · 22-10-2012 8:17pm

Madam_X wrote: »

As am I, as are lots of people. Still not weirdly hate-filled and obsessed.

Very hard to convince people you're paying taxes when you're on Boards.ie at hours that conflict with normal working hours (witnessed from previous posts), not to mention clocking up 3100 posts in 4 months.

Duggys Housemate · 22-10-2012 8:18pm

God knows. She may have the Internet at work.

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2012 8:35pm

Manny Pacquiao wrote: »

Very hard to convince people you're paying taxes when you're on Boards.ie at hours that conflict with normal working hours (witnessed from previous posts), not to mention clocking up 3100 posts in 4 months.

Not to mention this thing called 'shift work'.

If the whole country worked 'normal working hours' I'd hate to have to try and buy a pint of milk after 6 p.m - or petrol - or a meal - or go to the pictures, get a bus/train/luas/dart/plane/ferry, watch the TV, go to hospital, turn the lights on....

miss no stars · 22-10-2012 10:52pm

Garda sergeants have always been on mediocre pay... Then their overtime got cut and a load of other charges applied to what was left of their income. They're now among the working poor who have been squeezed time after time in this recession. I really do think people are overly hard on people just because their job is paid from the public purse. The gardai are mostly hard working men and women who have a fairly tough job to do. I had seen this thread and wasn't going to reply, then was looking at the news and felt compelled to. Look at this picture and tell me that the people who worked at this tragedy didn't earn every penny they're paid on that day.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kate-2-and-baby-sister-grace-killed-in-sunday-walk-horror-3266777.html

Stheno · 22-10-2012 10:55pm

miss no stars wrote: »

. Look at this picture and tell me that the people who worked at this tragedy didn't earn every penny they're paid on that day.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kate-2-and-baby-sister-grace-killed-in-sunday-walk-horror-3266777.html

That is a very haunting picture.

orl · 23-10-2012 12:23am

"dunno, but the average guard gets one worth €1,100,000.00 And that after only 30 years - living in a dog kennel or not. Dunno any other public service in the world who gets pensions like that. A millionaire pension at the age of 50. Nice one."

You really don't your facts. Almost every public service in the world gives a defined benefit pension - i.e you retire on half your final salary - UK, Australia even the USA which certainly does not believe in big government. They would all be worth something similar as people are living longer and you are guaranteed that until you die. When they were designed people only lived 2 or 3 years after retirement. BTW Ibec, AIB, Bank of Ireland still retain Defined Benefit pensions for existing employees.

As expensive as they are, it's a contractual agreement. Just like the banks would love to dump tracker mortgages, they can't. Public servants contribute about 14% of their salary towards pensions.

OnTheCounter · 23-10-2012 12:41am

Roughly what percentage of career gardai would achieve rank of at least sargent?

Emeraldy Pebbles · 23-10-2012 4:57pm

miss no stars wrote: »

Look at this picture and tell me that the people who worked at this tragedy didn't earn every penny they're paid on that day.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kate-2-and-baby-sister-grace-killed-in-sunday-walk-horror-3266777.html

Emotive and opportunitistic to bring this up, TBH.

MagicSean · 23-10-2012 5:07pm

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

Emotive and opportunitistic to bring this up, TBH.

Well if people are intent on talking about his good pay and perks it's just as fair to show the negatives of the job.

Sorcha16 · 23-10-2012 5:08pm

Homeless people can't afford food all the time but nobody seems to care about that

tayto lover · 23-10-2012 5:14pm

Sorcha16 wrote: »

Homeless people can't afford food all the time but nobody seems to care about that

I do and so do many of our volunteers who work in soup kitchens and distribute soup and sandwiches at night in towns all around the country.

Sorcha16 · 23-10-2012 5:16pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I do and so do many of our volunteers who work in soup kitchens and distribute soup and sandwiches at night in towns all around the country.

A small minority of people whom I clearly wasn't referring to

tayto lover · 23-10-2012 5:17pm

Sorcha16 wrote: »

A small minority of people whom I clearly wasn't referring to

Nobody = not one.

Sorcha16 · 23-10-2012 5:19pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Nobody = not one.

Are you just topping up your post count or do you actually enjoy being so pedantic?

Bannasidhe · 23-10-2012 5:28pm

MagicSean wrote: »

Well if people are intent on talking about his good pay and perks it's just as fair to show the negatives of the job.

I for one don't care what his job is and I recognise the Gardaí do a difficult job that takes a physical and emotional toll - but so do EMC's, Nurses, Life boat crews, (all volunteers), fire fighters and many other essential services.

My issue is with some one on twice the industrial salary crying the poor mouth - I did recently tell a colleague (a tenured senior lecturer) to get over himself when he did likewise.

HellFireClub · 23-10-2012 5:36pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I for one don't care what his job is and I recognise the Gardaí do a difficult job that takes a physical and emotional toll - but so do EMC's, Nurses, Life boat crews, (all volunteers), fire fighters and many other essential services.

My issue is with some one on twice the industrial salary crying the poor mouth - I did recently tell a colleague (a tenured senior lecturer) to get over himself when he did likewise.

The problem is that if you are on 40K plus in the private sector now and feel that you have some sort of a secure job, you are actually incredibly grateful for that. Meanwhile, the same figure 40K seems to be laughed at in the public sector. I'm not saying that 40K is an excellent salary, but I don't know many people in the private sector who are on a lot more than that at the moment.

tayto lover · 23-10-2012 5:40pm

HellFireClub wrote: »

The problem is that if you are on 40K plus in the private sector now and feel that you have some sort of a secure job, you are actually incredibly grateful for that. Meanwhile, the same figure 40K seems to be laughed at in the public sector. I'm not saying that 40K is an excellent salary, but I don't know many people in the private sector who are on a lot more than that at the moment.

I work with loads who are on much more. It does happen quite a bit more than some are admitting for some reason.

Bannasidhe · 23-10-2012 5:50pm

HellFireClub wrote: »

The problem is that if you are on 40K plus in the private sector now and feel that you have some sort of a secure job, you are actually incredibly grateful for that. Meanwhile, the same figure 40K seems to be laughed at in the public sector. I'm not saying that 40K is an excellent salary, but I don't know many people in the private sector who are on a lot more than that at the moment.

I don't think the highlighted part is true.

University Lecturers start on less than 40 k and that is with a PhD and the few, rare as hens teeth, lecturer jobs that do come up are generally 'under the bar' (so around 35k starting and on fixed term contracts) are inundated with applicants.

There are people in the PS who earn excellent salaries but they tend to be in 'senior' positions.

But I really don't think this is a PS/Private issue.

There are also people in the private sector who are living aspirational lifestyles they can no longer afford. My OH who works in a construction related job recently had an order halved - a builder who is building his own house and has discovered he cannot afford to outfit the 7 bathrooms he had planned.

7 bathrooms - that's a small hotel!

tayto lover · 23-10-2012 5:53pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I for one don't care what his job is and I recognise the Gardaí do a difficult job that takes a physical and emotional toll - but so do EMC's, Nurses, Life boat crews, (all volunteers), fire fighters and many other essential services.

My issue is with some one on twice the industrial salary crying the poor mouth - I did recently tell a colleague (a tenured senior lecturer) to get over himself when he did likewise.

I'm surprised at you falling for a farce of a story dreamed up by someone in the media on a quiet weekday. Do you honestly believe this person actually exists?

MagicSean · 23-10-2012 6:03pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I for one don't care what his job is and I recognise the Gardaí do a difficult job that takes a physical and emotional toll - but so do EMC's, Nurses, Life boat crews, (all volunteers), fire fighters and many other essential services.

My issue is with some one on twice the industrial salary crying the poor mouth - I did recently tell a colleague (a tenured senior lecturer) to get over himself when he did likewise.

I have an issue with people making assumptions about his personal finances based on sfa. 40k to support a family of four is not a lot, even with the child benefit payments. This is especially true if the children are in their late teens. People are assuming that he has personla debts from a secong house or a few nice cars. It's just as possible they are for medical expenses from an injury he received on duty but it's not even been considered here. The majority of the posts on this thread have shown a lot of ignorance with one poster calling the sergeants wife a "liar" because he didn't think that gardai got a weekly payment.

Bannasidhe · 23-10-2012 6:10pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm surprised at you falling for a farce of a story dreamed up by someone in the media on a quiet weekday. Do you honestly believe this person actually exists?

I think there is an agenda behind the story - as for whether the person exists or not it's immaterial as it's part of pre-budget lobby. One which has backfired as all it has done is fueled PS (esp Garda) bashing.

Bannasidhe · 23-10-2012 6:14pm

MagicSean wrote: »

I have an issue with people making assumptions about his personal finances based on sfa. 40k to support a family of four is not a lot, even with the child benefit payments. This is especially true if the children are in their late teens. People are assuming that he has personla debts from a secong house or a few nice cars. It's just as possible they are for medical expenses from an injury he received on duty but it's not even been considered here. The majority of the posts on this thread have shown a lot of ignorance with one poster calling the sergeants wife a "liar" because he didn't think that gardai got a weekly payment.

But it's not SFA- this Garda's wife (if she exists) gave permission for edited details of her families finances to be published in a national newspaper seemingly unaware that to a great many people this family is on a good income far in excess of the national average. So people managing on a lot less got PO'd and studied the figures supplied and reckoned they simply don't add up.

As for medical expenses - wasn't health insurance included in the figures supplied so I am a bit puzzled as to how this family could have excessive medical bills.

tayto lover · 23-10-2012 6:14pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think there is an agenda behind the story - as for whether the person exists or not it's immaterial as it's part of pre-budget lobby. One which has backfired as all it has done is fueled PS (esp Garda) bashing.

I believe it was a Govt ploy to do just that. Divide and conquer by splitting Private and Public. I saw attempts to cause an Urban v Rural split too.

Bannasidhe · 23-10-2012 6:17pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe it was a Govt ploy to do just that. Divide and conquer by splitting Private and Public. I saw attempts to cause an Urban v Rural split too.

Oh absolutely.

Public Vs Private.
Rural Vs Urban.
Employed Vs Unemployed.

It's not subtle but it is effective

Garda Sergeant can't afford food

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