Garda Sergeant can't afford food

dvpower

7 7 12 wrote: »

I dunno what's happening here, if we keep slashing garda pay it opens the door for corruption (very common among police in poorer countries), bribes, and forcing gardai to live in more working class areas (can you imagine a garda living in ballyfermot or somewhere like that). Yet we cannot afford the current wage levels so the only solution is either hire less gardai and pay them current rates (solves above problems) or slash their pay (creates above problems).

I'm sure there are plenty of guards living in Ballyfermot.

7 7 12

dvpower wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty of guards living in Ballyfermot.

I really doubt there's even a single one living there, their house would be targeted repeatedly as soon as word got out. I'm not singling out Ballyfermot there's probably very nice people living there, I mean in general the scum element in working class areas. They don't usually mix too well with our police force.

K-9

AK333 wrote: »

I did read your post properly. My main arguement is that 50k+ is by no means big bucks. I work with people every day who earn multiples of what i do and cant survive. Now im talking in some cases 10times my income and cant afford the family holiday that i can .Some are foolish but in my opinion 50k aint big bucks when you see whats actually taken home.

Ah now come on, it mightn't be big bucks but have we reached a stage that a grand a week is poorly paid?

0066ad

collegeme wrote: »

AK333 wrote: »

I did read your post properly. My main arguement is that 50k+ is by no means big bucks. I work with people every day who earn multiples of what i do and cant survive. Now im talking in some cases 10times my income and cant afford the family holiday that i can .Some are foolish but in my opinion 50k aint big bucks when you see whats actually taken home.

500,000k a year and can't afford the family holiday, have you any idea how
idiotic that sounds? that's more than an average factory employee can earn
after 20 years of employment. And they can't afford a family holiday are you
seriously suggesting this?

I'm lost for words :eek:

Kettleson

Let them eat cake.

miss no stars

0066ad wrote: »

500,000k a year and can't afford the family holiday, have you any idea how
idiotic that sounds? that's more than an average factory employee can earn
after 20 years of employment. And they can't afford a family holiday are you
seriously suggesting this?

I'm lost for words :eek:

Given that the same poster said they earn closer to €10,000 I'm presuming the people to whom he's referring are on around €100,000 a year. If that's the sole income for a family, which has dropped since the recession started (say other parent was laid off and can't claim welfare due to spousal income) but bought a house 8 years ago that's still got a big mortgage on it that was assessed with at least SOME of the second income in mind.... Then I can see how there might be a problem paying for the family holiday alright.

100k gross... take home 50 (ish)
say 20 year mortgage with initial principle €400,000 gives monthly repayments of around €2600, which is say €30,000 a year.

Then there might be a car loan?

food...

Heating, electricity, health insurance, pension, internet, phone, car fuel, car maintenance, car insurance & tax, maybe a little savings.


Where in there do you see room for a family holiday? A lot of people have found themselves in similar situations (1 income gone totally, the other reduced). While they may technically be on "good" money they:

a) don't see a lot of it thanks to taxation rates more appropriate for a booming economy than a struggling one
b) have expenses that were calculated in line with their situation years ago that are now very hard to bear.

You can't just look at a number and ignore the bigger picture. And don't roll out more of the tripe of "oh they should live within their means". Plenty of people were living well within their means but couldn't have predicted a worldwide recession with Ireland being hit SO badly.

unkel

Boombastic wrote: »

Different Sergeant, today's paper
One garda sergeant said he would "definitely sink" if his €57,000-a-year earnings, which include premium pay and allowances, fell.

No other low to mid ranking police officer anywhere else in Europe (probably in the world) earns anywhere near €60k.

Putting his kids in private education, LOL, €24k in schools and €30k in mortgage a year, who the fukc does he think he is, a movie star or something? :rolleyes:

Gardai should be paid well and we can never pay them enough for the risks they could face in the line of duty. But whingeing and moaning like you can't afford a millionaires lifestyle on your public service salary is making my blood boil tbh

Cookie_Monster

snubbleste wrote: »

What's he not saying?

He's not saying that he's a fat lazy ****

This Garda sergeant lives within walking distance of his workplace and walks to work or as he says
"I often walk to work because I can't afford to put petrol in the car,"

u_c_thesecond

Judging by my calculations 1400 a month is 16800 a year and if they got a 35 year morgage that is 588000- and sorry anyone who gets a morgage that big is a twit!

K-9

Forget about the mortgage.

Apparently private education is a right now.

3rdDegree

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

Judging by my calculations 1400 a month is 16800 a year and if they got a 35 year morgage that is 588000- and sorry anyone who gets a morgage that big is a twit!

You're forgetting interest which would change your figures significantly. If you had a 300k mortgage over 35 years, you'd be paying back nearly 588k in total.

collegeme

0066ad wrote: »

500,000k a year and can't afford the family holiday, have you any idea how
idiotic that sf

uounds? that's more than an average factory employee can earn
after 20 years of employment. And they can't afford a family holiday are you
seriously suggesting this?

I'm lost for words :eek:

I work part time and earn 14k . Just because i feel 50k is by no means big bucks doesnt mean i earn that. Im talking someone on €130k big mortgage cant head with the family to USA .

I think generally people who earn less than the person have no sympathy and feel theyre overpaid, people who earn more understand. But im a realist and dont make silly comments re. conveniently forgetting the diffetence between gross and net and also forgetting interest on a mortgage typically means ypu repay almost double what you borrowed...its callrd compound interest

conorhal

Considering that you could probably find literally thousands of people about whom you could write a story about the plight of the 'working poor', people who are merely living a day to day subsistance existance, I get highly suspicious when I read articles like these and suspect the subject has been deliberately chosen to provoke exactly the response this thread has generated.

Thanks quisling INM, the government’s Gobel’s wing along with RTE Pravda, for your timely spun propaganda piece designed to make the job of slashing the wages of frontline staff that much easier and ensure social discord rather then solidarity is sewn, consider the people divided and conquered.

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You do realise it's more than just dealing with scum right? Or let me guess, you probably think all we do is drive around arresting the "easy" targets, eating free doughnuts and drinking free tea, getting free meals at restaurants, etc.

Well nothing could be further from the truth. Dealing with scum is maybe 20% of the job. Dealing with management is far, far worse. You don't get told that when you're joining. You're led to believe that they look out for you, have your back, when all they want is to move up in the ladder, and don't care who they've to step on in the process. Your back is constantly up against a wall, and we haven't even started on the paperwork yet.

Alas, no one will ever know what it is like unless they do the job. The Official Secrets Act stops us from going into detail, the threat of Criminal Proceedings for doing/saying something, combined with the threat of a breach of the Garda Code, also stops us from saying too much. If i had known all this before i joined, i would have ran. But i wanted to do my bit for this country, and it was AGS or the Army. I picked the wrong one. I'm potentially putting my job on the line by even saying this on an open forum!

You obviously have a problem with the wages of AGS, and i believe it stems from your current earnings.

As I've said elsewhere, I feel sorry for the Gardai who give a ****. There was something on the news the other evening about some people being barred from O'Connell St. by the courts after a Garda operation dealing with anti-social behaviour etc., the Gardai must feel useless turning up to court for such cases after a few weeks of working on a case like that.

That said, I don't think there's any reason for a Garda to be starving barring pretty awful personal financial management.

ThisRegard

Why would they feel useless ? They went to court to get ASBOs against a number of people, and got them.

Potential-Monke

ThisRegard wrote: »

Why would they feel useless ? They went to court to get ASBOs against a number of people, and got them.

Then the same people come back to the area they're barred from, get re-arrested, and the same outcome instead of what is supposed to happen. It's a vicious circle, where the defendant gets umpteen chances, with no end to those chances. It's more the "proper" criminals who get easy sentences who piss us off. You spend loads of time gathering evidence, arresting, interviewing, followed by a file which will never be perfect (we nearly need a degree in file preperation these days), summons, court. The defendant could have 36 previous convictions for burglary, and you catch them coming out of a house with valuables, and the court gives them a suspended sentence! You lose heart in the system.

Deleted User wrote: »

That said, I don't think there's any reason for a Garda to be starving barring pretty awful personal financial management.

Nearly half the wages are gone on taxes, then take out the mortgage and loans, insurance for car and house, medical cover (100% necessary in this job), income protection (also 100% necessary, due to never knowing when you could be out injured because of work), food, petrol, internet (100% necessary to my sanity), mobile bill (also necessary due to having to use the phone for GPS/calls at work), gas/electricity. It all adds up.

As i said, after paying all that, i have €25 a week. Not enough to save, not enough to cover unexpected bills, not enough to do something on the few days off. I've made an agreement with the credit union to reduce my payments, so it's extended over an extra 2 years and i can't get another loan. I'm paying just above interest only on the mortgage. I'm at the bottom, can't go any further. I was able to afford all this in 2010, with maybe €100 disposable afterwards. Not anymore.

Dj Grimreefer

A copper that can't afford food?
Would you ever give it arrest

Ray Palmer

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Nearly half the wages are gone on taxes, then take out the mortgage and loans, insurance for car and house, medical cover (100% necessary in this job), income protection (also 100% necessary, due to never knowing when you could be out injured because of work), food, petrol, internet (100% necessary to my sanity), mobile bill (also necessary due to having to use the phone for GPS/calls at work), gas/electricity. It all adds up.

As i said, after paying all that, i have €25 a week. Not enough to save, not enough to cover unexpected bills, not enough to do something on the few days off. I've made an agreement with the credit union to reduce my payments, so it's extended over an extra 2 years and i can't get another loan. I'm paying just above interest only on the mortgage. I'm at the bottom, can't go any further. I was able to afford all this in 2010, with maybe €100 disposable afterwards. Not anymore.

You might want to check your payslip again because there is no way you are paying half in taxes. It just isn't possible.
I don't think anything you mentioned are excessive as luxuries but you have over blown some things. A building site is more dangerous than your job.
Don't use your phone for work. That is your choice. Don't you get paid when injured on the job?
Still you are kind of scr*wed. Wages are going to have to come down. They either pay less or reduce the force

Potential-Monke

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You might want to check your payslip again because there is no way you are paying half in taxes. It just isn't possible.
I don't think anything you mentioned are excessive as luxuries but you have over blown some things. A building site is more dangerous than your job.
Don't use your phone for work. That is your choice. Don't you get paid when injured on the job?
Still you are kind of scr*wed. Wages are going to have to come down. They either pay less or reduce the force

It's not far off it. And by taxes i'm including PAYE, PRSI, USC, and 3 pension levies that we pay. The only luxury i have is the internet, and that is my main (and nearly only) source of entertainment, so i won't be getting rid of that. I will admit that i got more in loans than i needed to back through the years, but always within my budget.

A building site is dangerous, but with proper precautions, the majority of accidents can be avoided. Yes, there will be some un-expected accidents, but no where near as many in AGS. You never know what the next call will bring, and planning ahead and having proper equipment is only half of it.

You get paid when injured, but depending on the nature of the injury, you could be out for a good while, and after a certain amount of time, your wages get cut in half. That's where the income protection comes in. Necessary security, because the Chief Medical Officer won't let you back to work until you're 100% (to avoid legal cases down the line).

They're already reducing the force, and it's already below a dangerous level (burglaries have increased). Any more, and no one will be getting an immediate service because there won't be anyone to respond (especially outside Dublin City).

And a cut in wages, as i have described above, will bring me into negative earnings (yes, it's possible to have a minus on the payslip). And there is nothing i can do to sort it. EBS won't lower the mortgage, already have a credit agreement with the Credit Union so can't lower that any more. Can't get a second job as i don't have a trade, and no one will take a part time worker who can only work 3 weekends out of 10, plus we can't let a second job affect the Working Time Directive (ie: minimum rest periods) so there really is nothing more that i can do.

My only option, should wages be cut, is getting the hell out of the country and leaving all my debt behind for the taxpayer to foot. Which i don't want to do. I got the loans, i got the mortgage, i want to pay them back, but if it comes to a case of my mental health against debt, well it's obvious what the decision will be.

greenoverred

Just a few figures for clarity

Take a Garda after 15 years service. Basic pay is €45,000. Big bucks I think it has been described as in this thread.

Take home pay is €29,500 - €560 per week.

Not bad you say.

A look at some of the weekly expenses posted on the thread

10 euro in an oil envelope
15 in house insurance envelope
10 in car insurance envelope
15 in phone/internet envelope
10 in electricity envelope
10 in car tax envelope
15 for coal etc each week

then I pay for food - approx 60



so far I'm up to 145

then 40 to credit union
and petrol and child school costs and party presents etc etc

Ill use this as a template but I have to add a €250 mortgage, €30 Medical Insurance. €50 petrol costs. I also have property tax, water charges, TV Licence. So there you have it. My weekly outgoings ahve gone over €580. That's the €45,000 salary gone. If I was in your situation and had a child I would have childcare costs to consider as well but I wont go into that.

If I work all the night hours, Sundays and Saturdays during the 10 week roster I have a potential to earn and extra €2000 per 10 week period. 60% of this is given back so this becomes €800. ie €80 per week. Rent allowance of €80 per week also cut by 60% which leaves €32. This is to pay of any extra bills that may arise during the week.

9 bank holidays during the year which if Im lucky I might get to work 6 so that is another €1000. €400 after deductions.

No overtime left work talking about but if I do manage to pick up the odd hour 60% goes back in deductions.

I wont go into the conditions of the job or health effects of working shifts because it has to be done to keep the bills paid and I did understand them going into the job but for one particular poster who works six hours a week to be complaining about his lot because he feels a guard is overpaid, well just remember the Guard is doing 40hours of shift work for similar disposable income to yourself

Duggys Housemate

60% tax?

jonsnow

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Then the same people come back to the area they're barred from, get re-arrested, and the same outcome instead of what is supposed to happen. It's a vicious circle, where the defendant gets umpteen chances, with no end to those chances. It's more the "proper" criminals who get easy sentences who piss us off. You spend loads of time gathering evidence, arresting, interviewing, followed by a file which will never be perfect (we nearly need a degree in file preperation these days), summons, court. The defendant could have 36 previous convictions for burglary, and you catch them coming out of a house with valuables, and the court gives them a suspended sentence! You lose heart in the system.

I agree with you.I mean the loopholes that people get off on in relation to offences are beyond belief.I mean look at this chancer.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/detective-garda-cleared-on-technicality-of-dangerous-driving-29066308.html

greenoverred

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

60% tax?

Paye, Prsi, Usc, Public Sector Pension Levy and other pension reductions

jonsnow

greenoverred wrote: »

Public Sector Pension Levy and other pension reductions

you seem to be confusing paying for your pension and paying tax.They are not the same thing.

Duggys Housemate

jonsnow wrote: »

you seem to be confusing paying for your pension and paying tax.They are not the same thing.

So what's PRSI?

greenoverred

jonsnow wrote: »

you seem to be confusing paying for your pension and paying tax.They are not the same thing.

Im not confusing anything. I never said it was a tax. Its a mandatory reduction. I have no choice whether I want to pay it or not.

Geuze

Compulsory deductions on extra income are very high in Ireland

Tax = 41%
USC = 7%
PRSI = 4%

So 52% marginal tax rate after 33k approx. CRAZY.

For many workers it's higher, as pension conts are compulsory.

For a typical PS worker it could be 52 + 10% approx = 60%++

Although at the same time, average tax rates are mid-range. My parents pay 10% on 52k income.

jonsnow

greenoverred wrote: »

Im not confusing anything. I never said it was a tax. Its a mandatory reduction. I have no choice whether I want to pay it or not.

So you,lld rather not pay towards your garda pension and just take the money into your hand?

Duggys Housemate

jonsnow wrote: »

So you,lld rather not pay towards your garda pension and just take the money into your hand?

That's missing the point. He can't. Just as you can't not contribute to PRSI and decide instead to take out private unemployment insurance.

Duggys Housemate

Geuze wrote: »

Compulsory deductions on extra income are very high in Ireland

Tax = 41%
USC = 7%
PRSI = 4%

So 52% marginal tax rate after 33k approx. CRAZY.

For many workers it's higher, as pension conts are compulsory.

For a typical PS worker it could be 52 + 10% approx = 60%++

Although at the same time, average tax rates are mid-range. My parents pay 10% on 52k income.

The marginal taxation is absurd though - I don't know why anybody would do overtime in the PS.

greenoverred

jonsnow wrote: »

So you,lld rather not pay towards your garda pension and just take the money into your hand?

Just to be clear Mandatory means I have no choice but to pay it. It comes straight out of my pay so I don't see it to make the decision

Potential-Monke

jonsnow wrote: »

So you,lld rather not pay towards your garda pension and just take the money into your hand?

As the others have said, it's mandatory, so there is no choice. But, if there was a choice, right now i'd take the cash. Can always go back paying when/if things get better. But the choice is made for us.

jonsnow

the point I,m making is that gardai are moaning as if pension contributions have disappeared into ball of smoke when in fact you will see all that money again plus massive interest when you retire.A goldplated pension which you only contribute a minute fraction towards that could not be bought on the open market is what you are complaining about.

Why dont ye get the GRA to approach the govt with an offer to scrap the garda pensions and let the gardai purchase their pensions on the open market or hold onto the cash.I,m sure the govt would be receptive to such an overture.

Boombastic

greenoverred wrote: »

Ill use this as a template but I have to add a €250 mortgage..............................

I wont go into the conditions of the job or health effects of working shifts because it has to be done to keep the bills paid and I did understand them going into the job but for one particular poster who works six hours a week to be complaining about his lot because he feels a guard is overpaid, well just remember the Guard is doing 40hours of shift work for similar disposable income to yourself

If you are paying a mortgage, you will own a house at the end of it;)

Potential-Monke

jonsnow wrote: »

the point I,m making is that gardai are moaning as if pension contributions have disappeared into ball of smoke when in fact you will see all that money again plus massive interest when you retire.A goldplated pension which you only contribute a minute fraction towards that could not be bought on the open market is what you are complaining about.

Why dont ye get the GRA to approach the govt with an offer to scrap the garda pensions and let the gardai purchase their pensions on the open market or hold onto the cash.I,m sure the govt would be receptive to such an overture.

Boombastic wrote: »

If you are paying a mortgage, you will own a house at the end of it;)

That's no good to me now, i've 24 years left before the pension, and 26 before the mortgage is paid. Not much good to me when i seriously doubt i'll be able to afford the mortgage or stay in the job within the next year...

greenoverred

jonsnow wrote: »

the point I,m making is that gardai are moaning as if pension contributions have disappeared into ball of smoke when in fact you will see all that money again plus massive interest when you retire.A goldplated pension which you only contribute a minute fraction towards that could not be bought on the open market is what you are complaining about.

Why dont ye get the GRA to approach the govt with an offer to scrap the garda pensions and let the gardai purchase their pensions on the open market or hold onto the cash.I,m sure the govt would be receptive to such an overture.

Where has anyone said pension contributions have disappeared into a ball of smoke. Where have I moaned about the pension contributions. I just outlined where a salary of €45,000 plus premium payments goes. You are going totally of topic with your rant about the benefit's of the pension. But while you are on the topic what is this minute fraction that you think I contribute and how much do you think I should contribute to this "gold plated pension".

greenoverred

Boombastic wrote: »

If you are paying a mortgage, you will own a house at the end of it;)

Yeah, lucky me. Makes it all worth while:rolleyes:

Boombastic

greenoverred wrote: »

Yeah, lucky me. Makes it all worth while:rolleyes:

No one forced you to sign up for one.

greenoverred

Boombastic wrote: »

No one forced you to sign up for one.

True. But I have to live somewhere. Seen as Im not entitled to any rental supplement the only other option I have would be to pay rent. Either way its going to cost me. Believe it or not its not some kind of mad extravagance for someone to be paying a mortgage.

BattleCorp

jonsnow wrote: »

the point I,m making is that gardai are moaning as if pension contributions have disappeared into ball of smoke when in fact you will see all that money again plus massive interest when you retire.A goldplated pension which you only contribute a minute fraction towards that could not be bought on the open market is what you are complaining about.

Not much point having a gold plated pension 20 years down the road if you can't afford to keep a roof over your head and make ends meet today.

AlekSmart

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You get paid when injured, but depending on the nature of the injury, you could be out for a good while, and after a certain amount of time, your wages get cut in half. That's where the income protection comes in. Necessary security, because the Chief Medical Officer won't let you back to work until you're 100% (to avoid legal cases down the line).

And a cut in wages, as i have described above, will bring me into negative earnings (yes, it's possible to have a minus on the payslip). And there is nothing i can do to sort it. EBS won't lower the mortgage, already have a credit agreement with the Credit Union so can't lower that any more. Can't get a second job as i don't have a trade, and no one will take a part time worker who can only work 3 weekends out of 10, plus we can't let a second job affect the Working Time Directive (ie: minimum rest periods) so there really is nothing more that i can do.

Some good points there PM.

Income Continuance Insurance,for example,would be extremely difficult for a serving Garda to accquire outside of the forces own arrangements.

The Working Time Directive is also a nasty piece of (anti) work,as it appears to be almost universally enforced within the Public Sector,whilst being somewhat quizically looked at outside in the real world.

Effectively the WTD has become an Upper Limit on earnings for all "employed" persons....luckily it does not have a bearing upon the Company Director or the self-employed.

It is difficult to comprehend a country in such dire need of productive workers,putting so much effort into preventing such workers from working....Crazy Stuff,but hey it's the EU's fault.

Potential-Monke

AlekSmart wrote: »

Some good points there PM.

Income Continuance Insurance,for example,would be extremely difficult for a serving Garda to accquire outside of the forces own arrangements.

The Working Time Directive is also a nasty piece of (anti) work,as it appears to be almost universally enforced within the Public Sector,whilst being somewhat quizically looked at outside in the real world.

Effectively the WTD has become an Upper Limit on earnings for all "employed" persons....luckily it does not have a bearing upon the Company Director or the self-employed.

It is difficult to comprehend a country in such dire need of productive workers,putting so much effort into preventing such workers from working....Crazy Stuff,but hey it's the EU's fault.

You can also throw in that the WTD is enforced on members who have second jobs, yet when it comes to court attendance it's thrown out the window and a "compensation" is made. Not much good when you've worked 10 hours, got 2 hours sleep, in court for up to 8 hours, and back for another 10 hour night shift 3 hours after the end of court.

tayto lover

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You can also throw in that the WTD is enforced on members who have second jobs, yet when it comes to court attendance it's thrown out the window and a "compensation" is made. Not much good when you've worked 10 hours, got 2 hours sleep, in court for up to 8 hours, and back for another 10 hour night shift 3 hours after the end of court.

In my opinion no money would compensate people for working shift work.
I did 10 years of it in London and it nearly killed me. It takes years off your life and can lead to all types of illnesses.
It took me a long time to re-adjust after it.

http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Working-Overnights-Could-Cut-Years-Off-Your-Life/2903461

AlekSmart

Deleted User wrote: »

That said, I don't think there's any reason for a Garda to be starving barring pretty awful personal financial management.

I have a suspicion the original "No food on the table" story skirted round the Credit Union scenario,which could explain the Utility Deductions from salary via a Budget Plan.

I understand that there were,for some years past,certain reservations being expressed by some people connected with the Garda Credit Unions at the level of credit being offered to/availed of by young recently attested members.

It seems a voluntary code of conduct,by which the Garda Credit Unions did not loan funds to non-attested members,was allowed to slip into disuse during the boom years,which allowed some young Gardai to get in a little deeper than was prudent.

It's quite speculative however,as the GCU's,understandably don't want their linen washed in public ?

The situation in 2009 was already looking somewhat difficult.....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-credit-union-owed-nearly-1m-by-defaulters-26565801.html

...Have things improved I wonder ?

John_Rambo

AK333 wrote: »

live within your means.

Isn't he not doing just that? The point being, if his means are cut, he can't live within them.

We can't have badly paid cops. Badly paid cops = crap cops/corrupt cops.

If it were a perfect world, we'd fire the crap cops and pay the good ones lots of money, then, they'd recruit more good ones, train them properly and pay them good money.

Boombastic

If he cut out the private schooling he would have €24,000 more disposable income/year, that's €2,000/month and he wants more.... It's up to him how he spends it but if he has €24,000 / year to spend on school while starving, he is spending it foolishly.

gurramok

I'm going to buy a Ferrari on loan, my choice. My weekly expenses will be huge. I'll ask my boss for a huge pay rise as i can't afford food anymore to service my car loan.

Ray Palmer

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's not far off it. And by taxes i'm including PAYE, PRSI, USC, and 3 pension levies that we pay. The only luxury i have is the internet, and that is my main (and nearly only) source of entertainment, so i won't be getting rid of that. I will admit that i got more in loans than i needed to back through the years, but always within my budget.

A building site is dangerous, but with proper precautions, the majority of accidents can be avoided. Yes, there will be some un-expected accidents, but no where near as many in AGS. You never know what the next call will bring, and planning ahead and having proper equipment is only half of it.

You get paid when injured, but depending on the nature of the injury, you could be out for a good while, and after a certain amount of time, your wages get cut in half. That's where the income protection comes in. Necessary security, because the Chief Medical Officer won't let you back to work until you're 100% (to avoid legal cases down the line).

They're already reducing the force, and it's already below a dangerous level (burglaries have increased). Any more, and no one will be getting an immediate service because there won't be anyone to respond (especially outside Dublin City).

And a cut in wages, as i have described above, will bring me into negative earnings (yes, it's possible to have a minus on the payslip). And there is nothing i can do to sort it. EBS won't lower the mortgage, already have a credit agreement with the Credit Union so can't lower that any more. Can't get a second job as i don't have a trade, and no one will take a part time worker who can only work 3 weekends out of 10, plus we can't let a second job affect the Working Time Directive (ie: minimum rest periods) so there really is nothing more that i can do.

My only option, should wages be cut, is getting the hell out of the country and leaving all my debt behind for the taxpayer to foot. Which i don't want to do. I got the loans, i got the mortgage, i want to pay them back, but if it comes to a case of my mental health against debt, well it's obvious what the decision will be.

Yeap you are wrong. Pension levy is not tax it is you paying for your rather good pension. So it is mandatory why not challenge that instead of anything else. I don't get how you can have a negative pay slip. They are percentage based deductions as far as I know.
There are a few things Garda seem to think are unique to their work that aren't Working in a pub as a bouncer expereince similar violence as can just general bar satff and fast food workers.
You know your debts don't actually go away if you leave the country? They can easily follow you with interest. If you are going to another police force won't they check your back ground out?
I really don't understand why anybody in the force or when joining the force thought that there would not be pay cuts. All through time the same dispute pops up. Asking for unsustainable pay increase was really the cause but was insisted on to match private pay. It is slightly offensive to the public who pointed this out at the time but apparently they were leaving in droves if it didn't happen. Low and behold it meant people like yourself borrowed on that salary and are now in big trouble. I do feel sorry for you but it is more your fault than mine.

Boombastic

Boombastic wrote: »

If he cut out the private schooling he would have €24,000 more disposable income/year, that's €2,000/month and he wants more.... It's up to him how he spends it but if he has €24,000 / year to spend on school while starving, he is spending it foolishly.

Exactly. I'm finding it hard to have much sympathy when I'd consider myself very lucky to even be earning 24K a year. Private school is a luxury, pure and simple. If you can't afford it, send your kids to public school like almost everyone else does.

Potential-Monke

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yeap you are wrong. Pension levy is not tax it is you paying for your rather good pension. So it is mandatory why not challenge that instead of anything else.

It didn't exist until the start of the recession. And there's no point fighting it. We fought it's introduction, didn't get anywhere. It's not going anywhere, never will. As i said, right now, i would rather have that money than put it towards a pension. Also, people giving out about the pension, was it not common knowledge all along that the pension is what it is? If people are so jealous of it, they could have joined too. But they didn't. For one reason or another, most likely because they wouldn't be willing to do the work of AGS. Christ, knowing what i know now, i wouldn't have joined either.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I don't get how you can have a negative pay slip. They are percentage based deductions as far as I know.

I didn't get it either, until i saw it. Lots of members have the facility to pay bills through the credit union. This would leave them in a negative, and it would be covered in the "big" cheque. Don't know how long one can get away with it, but it does happen.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There are a few things Garda seem to think are unique to their work that aren't Working in a pub as a bouncer expereince similar violence as can just general bar satff and fast food workers.

Do bouncers, or bar/waiting staff go to domestics? Do they have to tell parents/siblings that a member of their family is dead? Do they have to attend scenes of fatal traffic accidents/assaults? Do they have to check the pulse of a dead 6 month old? Do they get constant abuse for doing their job? Do they have to, while someone is dieing, have the right frame of mind to get a legally binding dieing declaration from someone in their last moments of life? Do they think that everytime they go to work, that it might be their last?

There are more than enough experiences that AGS deal in their daily life than any other profession. There was a good article written by a policeman, in which he basically describes the expectations of the public regarding police. He stated that we are expected to be everything, phychiatrist, doctor, lawyer, mediator, etc.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You know your debts don't actually go away if you leave the country? They can easily follow you with interest. If you are going to another police force won't they check your back ground out?

I am quite aware of that, and i don't really think i'd attempt to become a policeman anywhere else. I was just saying how i feel, and what i believe might be my only option should any more cuts come in.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I really don't understand why anybody in the force or when joining the force thought that there would not be pay cuts. All through time the same dispute pops up. Asking for unsustainable pay increase was really the cause but was insisted on to match private pay. It is slightly offensive to the public who pointed this out at the time but apparently they were leaving in droves if it didn't happen. Low and behold it meant people like yourself borrowed on that salary and are now in big trouble. I do feel sorry for you but it is more your fault than mine.

And why shouldn't AGS have received a pay increase in line with the private sector? Most other sectors at the time got one, why not us? We have received increments in line with everyone else. The wage, and it's allowences, were agreed to at the time to be in line with the type of job we're doing. And when others got pay increases, we were told no, but managed to get allowences on other parts of our job instead. Now, those allowences are been taxed to high heaven, and we still get the same tax cuts as everyone else. Double taxed. And yes, i did borrow according to my wages, who doesn't? No one could have expected the cuts and taxes that came, not unless you're an economist or have an interest in the area (not many do, i reckon).

As i said previously, unless you do the job, you really don't know what it's like. Prior to joining, i knew nothing about the job, other than catching criminals. That is maybe 20% of the job, if even.

Now, when the government is picking on an easy target that they believe cannot stand up for themselves (it's written into legislation that we can't strike, unlike every other sector). We we've had enough. We've done our bit, our job is getting harder and more dangerous (we don't get danger pay), our numbers are being decimated, our equipment is not up to standard, our transport is pathetic, and our leader is in the pocket of the prick that is doing all this. We've never had a voice, the GRA rarely tell it like it actually is, and play the political game like everyone else. We're not allowed to discuss most aspects of our job due to the complications of the Garda Code and the Official Secrets Act. We can't actually say how many (read: little) Gardai are in each area at any given time due to the increase in crime in that area those figures would bring. We are a muted voice, and one which a hell of a lot of people don't care to hear, or don't understand.

TL;DR: We've had enough.