Road to Rio 2016 - Irish Olympic News

Strazdas

Dodge wrote: »

It's interesting to see people like Carruth, Dunne and Barnes give the other side though. Basically it boiled down to power and money.

Shame for all involved

EDIT; John Treacy now says the money was agreed and it was all down to power. Something the AIBA wouldn't even present to their board. Murky stuff

The suspicion has to be that the little Napoleons on the IABA council simply don't want Walsh.

If they did want him and cherish him, they'd be coming out with statements like "We will move heaven and earth to sort this out". Their silence on the issue is deafening. Even yesterday morning when they accepted his resignation was very telling. You would have expected the CEO to ring Walsh within minutes and say "Woah, hold your horses Billy, let's not do anything hasty here....we need to talk about this".

walshb

Strazdas wrote: »

The suspicion has to be that the little Napoleons on the IABA council simply don't want Walsh.

If they did want him and cherish him, they'd be coming out with statements like "We will move heaven and earth to sort this out". Their silence on the issue is deafening. Even yesterday morning when they accepted his resignation was very telling. You would have expected the CEO to ring Walsh within minutes and say "Woah, hold your horses Billy, let's not do anything hasty here....we need to talk about this".

Maybe all that was done. Maybe they both reached a point of no return. The IABA have released a statement.

I don't think Joe Public needs to be privvy to the exact reasons. Let's just say that the exact reasons on both sides could be very sensitive.

Strazdas

walshb wrote: »

Maybe all that was done. Maybe they both reached a point of no return. The IABA have released a statement.

I don't think Joe Public needs to be privvy to the exact reasons. Let's just say that the exact reasons on both sides could be very sensitive.

I find it very hard to believe that there are two sides to this argument and that the IABA's stance on the issue is a perfectly valid one. Walsh wants to stay in the role and the Irish Sports Council want him to stay. What outrageous demands is Walsh making of the IABA that they feel they have no choice but to let him go? And how come the IABA shook hands on a new deal with Walsh in August and then did the most dramatic of u-turns two days later?

If there was some valid reason why the IABA wanted shot of Billy Walsh then John Treacy doesn't seem to be privy to it. He said today he was shocked and appalled at their treatment of Walsh and doesn't know why they are acting as they are.

Dodge

Without being facetious, Walsh clearly didn't *just* want to stay in his role. He wanted more power. Otherwise the contract wold have been done and dusted a year ago

Strazdas

Dodge wrote: »

Without being facetious, Walsh clearly didn't *just* want to stay in his role. He wanted more power. Otherwise the contract wold have been done and dusted a year ago

Which is fine though. He's the head coach and supremo of the high performance unit and they are delivering phenomenal results. It seems insane that the IABA would sooner lose him than cede any extra powers or increased autonomy to him. In what way would the IABA be threatened or destabilised if Walsh had increased autonomy in his running of the high performance unit?

Dodge

Maybe they think he's an amazing coach but he's useless with budgets or dealing with other areas that a manager (not the coach) has to work with? I've no idea. All I'm saying is that it clearly isn't just a case of Walsh being happy to continue in his role and the AIBA turfing him out.

marienbad

Dodge wrote: »

Without being facetious, Walsh clearly didn't *just* want to stay in his role. He wanted more power. Otherwise the contract wold have been done and dusted a year ago

A contract 'agreement' was done and dusted .

Now it needs to asked of those that reneged at the last minute - why ?

Strazdas

Dodge wrote: »

Maybe they think he's an amazing coach but he's useless with budgets or dealing with other areas that a manager (not the coach) has to work with? I've no idea. All I'm saying is that it clearly isn't just a case of Walsh being happy to continue in his role and the AIBA turfing him out.

It looks suspiciously like a power struggle or internal politics within the IABA to me. Billy Walsh signed off on a deal with senior IABA people which was brokered by independent mediators, everyone was happy and then two days later an IABA sub committee refused to send the deal forward for ratification, when it should have been a formality.

That sounds like the IABA are the problem, not Walsh. One wonders what is going on within the corridors of power in the IABA and if there are deep divisions.

Strazdas

Things are hotting up : Irish Sports Council chair Kieran Mulvey has given the IABA board 24 hours to rethink their approach to Billy Walsh or face a funding review.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1020/736317-billy-walsh/

walshb

Strazdas wrote: »

Things are hotting up : Irish Sports Council chair Kieran Mulvey has given the IABA board 24 hours to rethink their approach to Billy Walsh or face a funding review.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1020/736317-billy-walsh/

Disgraceful behaviour from a government organisation. Really is. Whatever the rights or wrongs or whatever side people are on, this threat is really the pits. Unbelievable that one man can come on and threaten a whole sport because of the gripe of one man and an organisation.

If Billy Walsh really does respect and love the sport and the boxers and all the hard workers in it who have given us so much joy and success he himself should come out against this.

Clearlier

walshb wrote: »

Disgraceful behaviour from a government organisation. Really is. Whatever the rights or wrongs or whatever side people are on, this threat is really the pits. Unbelievable that one man can come on and threaten a whole sport because of the gripe of one man and an organisation.

If Billy Walsh really does respect and love the sport and the boxers and all the hard workers in it who have given us so much joy and success he himself should come out against this.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. One of the reasons that the ISC was set up was to try and strengthen the administration and governance of the bodies running sport in Ireland.

In its early days one of the first thing it addressed was some basic governance processes such as strategic plans and child protection policies. Funding was contingent on the governing bodies being set up correctly and having all the appropriate policies and procedures in place.

It looks very much like there has been a governance failure here. The ISC already got involved to help work out a package that worked for both Walsh and the IABA, the IABA representative agreed to it and then reneged on the agreement to present it to their board. That is not the way you run an organisation and if in any way symptomatic of what goes on within the IABA suggests a significant lack of capability.

The ISC has a responsibility to ensure that the funding it provides is used appropriately. It has good reason to believe that the IABA is incapable of doing that and it has a duty to push the IABA to improve itself and if it fails to do that to withdraw funding from the IABA and reallocate it to other sports more capable of using the money appropriately.

Strazdas

Clearlier wrote: »

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. One of the reasons that the ISC was set up was to try and strengthen the administration and governance of the bodies running sport in Ireland.

In its early days one of the first thing it addressed was some basic governance processes such as strategic plans and child protection policies. Funding was contingent on the governing bodies being set up correctly and having all the appropriate policies and procedures in place.

It looks very much like there has been a governance failure here. The ISC already got involved to help work out a package that worked for both Walsh and the IABA, the IABA representative agreed to it and then reneged on the agreement to present it to their board. That is not the way you run an organisation and if in any way symptomatic of what goes on within the IABA suggests a significant lack of capability.

The ISC has a responsibility to ensure that the funding it provides is used appropriately. It has good reason to believe that the IABA is incapable of doing that and it has a duty to push the IABA to improve itself and if it fails to do that to withdraw funding from the IABA and reallocate it to other sports more capable of using the money appropriately.

Absolutely spot on. As Kieran Mulvey pointed out today, the ISC pay the salary of the CEO of the IABA and of other administrative staff.

It is actually a very positive development that Mulvey has come out fighting and called the IABA's bluff on this. It seems they thought they could force Billy Walsh out of Irish boxing for good, present it as a fait accompli to the nation and then quickly replace him with a yes man of their choosing.

His main point is succicnt and blows through the IABA's nonsense. Why would we be searching for a new boxing coach this week when we already have the best and most qualified one in situ?

walshb

Strazdas wrote: »

Absolutely spot on. As Kieran Mulvey pointed out today, the ISC pay the salary of the CEO of the IABA and of other administrative staff.

So what? Does that mean they should also have complete authority as regards the running of the IABA? Any time the IABA does something that doesn't sit well with them they threaten to cut funding? The ISC are no better than the IABA with this attitdue that they have diplayed in the past 24 hrs.

Strazdas

walshb wrote: »

So what? Does that mean they should also have complete authority as regards the running of the IABA? Any time the IABA does something that doesn't sit well with them they threaten to cut funding? The ISC are no better than the IABA with this attitdue that they have diplayed in the past 24 hrs.

Well have a read of Mulvey's comments to an Oireachtas committee this morning :

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/what-was-billy-walsh-looking-for-he-was-looking-for-respect-1.2400033

He sounds fair and measured and very professional in his comments. The IABA sound like a bunch of amateurish clowns in comparison in the way they have given Walsh, the ISC and the Minister for Sport the runaround this year. He points out that any professionals who have tried to engage with the IABA 'have found it the most frustrating experience they've ever experienced'.

Keep in mind too that Mulvey is one of the most experienced and respected negotiators in the country. not some two bit huckster used to shooting his mouth off.

Clearlier

walshb wrote: »

So what? Does that mean they should also have complete authority as regards the running of the IABA? Any time the IABA does something that doesn't sit well with them they threaten to cut funding? The ISC are no better than the IABA with this attitdue that they have diplayed in the past 24 hrs.

This is completely and utterly wrong again.

This is what Kieran Mulvey said:

We will review that for the 2016 funding round until we are assured that everything that is required on transparency and corporate governance is to our satisfaction. It’s not today or yesterday that this arose. It’s not working properly and it needs to be fixed.

The funding that IABA apply for and receive comes with strings attached (this applies to all of the sporting bodies funded by the ISC). One of those strings is that the organisation is well run (transparency and corporate governance above).

It's the ISC's job (amongst other things) to ensure that they only provide funding to organisations that are well run. If as in this instance they have concerns that an organisation is not operating to the standards required by them then it would be negligent of them not to intervene. If the IABA don't like that then they should stop asking for funding.

If the IABA had decided that they wanted to replace Billy Walsh with somebody else because they could do a better job then I think that we'd all be a bit surprised but if they had done everything in a transparent manner in accordance with good corporate governance guidelines then there wouldn't be the problem that there is.

The issue is not with what they have done so much as the way in which they have done it and that is very much the ISC's remit.

marienbad

walshb wrote: »

So what? Does that mean they should also have complete authority as regards the running of the IABA? Any time the IABA does something that doesn't sit well with them they threaten to cut funding? The ISC are no better than the IABA with this attitdue that they have diplayed in the past 24 hrs.

You at last it seems at least accept there is a problem with the IABA .

Dodge

To be fair, no one has ever argued there wasn't a problem within the AIBA, walshb included.

Strazdas

marienbad wrote: »

You at last it seems at least accept there is a problem with the IABA .

A problem with them would be an understatement. There doesn't seem to be the slightest bit of tension between the ISC and any other sporting body, and yet we have Mulvey saying today that he is "angry" and that the IABA have shown him, the ISC and the Minister for Sport "gross disrespect" over a period of months : those are incredibly strong words.

walshb

marienbad wrote: »

You at last it seems at least accept there is a problem with the IABA .

If that is the way you have interpreted my post so be it. The ISC are not coming out of this at all favorably. They're the ones funding a "so called" inept and bent organisation....

gordongekko

walshb wrote: »

If that is the way you have interpreted my post so be it. The ISC are not coming out of this at all favorably. They're the ones funding a "so called" inept and bent organisation....

So you say they are bullying them by threatening to remove funding and now they are not coming out of this favourably by funding them. It can't be both.

marienbad

walshb wrote: »

If that is the way you have interpreted my post so be it. The ISC are not coming out of this at all favorably. They're the ones funding a "so called" inept and bent organisation....

This shows you know very little or you choose to know very little about how these things work . Instead you just try to continuously muddy the waters .

Certain issues are well known and beyond dispute , there has been a tension between the HPU and the IABA since virtually day I . Key individuals over the years have 'thrown in the towel' in frustration and moved on . Billy Walsh is just the latest casualty .

In High performance sport democracy has no place and for success to be achieved it must be run on a professional basis . That is the nub of the issue .

Strazdas

I've heard rumours of a "Dublin mafia" running the IABA who deeply resented the success of the High Performance Unit and who wanted Walsh out at all costs.

feargale

HOCKEY. Oceania Cup (men's)

17:30 NZL 1 - 3 AUS
15:30 FIJ 20 - 0 SAM
15:30 NZL 37 - 0 SAM

So far so good. This should see Australia into a final against New Zealand on Sunday at 4 p.m. New Zealand time.

Pherekydes

feargale wrote: »

NZL 37 - 0 SAM

Huh? You're kidding?

Edited to add: No he's not.

Dodge

News from Irish boxing that Stephen Gallagher may qualify through reallocation of the WSB spots

http://www.irish-boxing.com/ireland-shock-fourth-boxer-qualified-rio-2016/

Dodge

AIBA statement
http://www.iaba.ie/iaba-position-re-resignation-of-billy-walsh/

Poorly written but definitely shows that it wasn't just Good Billy v Bad IABA

Clearlier

Dodge wrote: »

AIBA statement
http://www.iaba.ie/iaba-position-re-resignation-of-billy-walsh/

Poorly written but definitely shows that it wasn't just Good Billy v Bad IABA

To summarise the IABA's position (as I read it).

Billy's not that important.
The structure is the reason for success.
Billy wanted more, we wanted things to stay exactly the same.
We contacted the ISC.
They put together a proposed package for Billy which was discussed but the ISC subsequently sent a proposal that didn't reflect what had been agreed.
We did present it to the board but didn't vote on it.
The ISC washed their hands of the process.
We negotiated with Billy through his solicitor.
We agreed to some of the things that Billy asked for but not all.
Billy resigned which we were really surprised by.
The ISC are a bunch of power hungry scurrilous thugs and the minister is on our side.
We're going to replace Billy.

They claim that they did all that they reasonably could to retain Billy, their statement doesn't really back that up though. If they had really wanted to retain him they would have been a lot more proactive than they say that they were.

It's a political statement seeking to bypass the ISC and return to the old way of doing things. IMO regardless of the individuals the setting up of the ISC has been good for Irish sport, reducing the impact of a change in government and any whims that it might have. Michael Ring should butt out of it, apologise for his statements and leave it for the ISC to do the job that it was appointed to do.

TL:DR - the IABA's statement doesn't add up. The ISC should do it's job and the minister for sport should shut up.

Strazdas

Dodge wrote: »

AIBA statement
http://www.iaba.ie/iaba-position-re-resignation-of-billy-walsh/

Poorly written but definitely shows that it wasn't just Good Billy v Bad IABA

The chapters relating to what happened between August 22 and 25 are very murky.

As far as Kieran Mulvey is concerned, all parties shook hands on on the deal at the meeting on August 22 (which had gone on for hours). Christie appears to refute this and is very vague on the issue. Why would they be considering forwarding the contract to the IABA board for approval if nothing had been agreed?

Dodge

Clearlier wrote: »

TL:DR - the IABA's statement doesn't add up. The ISC should do it's job and the minister for sport should shut up.

But isn't the opposite line true too? The IABA should do its job and the ISC should shut up? I don't see why anyone has any more confidence in the ISC than they do in the IABA?

I think the IABA are well meaning but they're clearly not professionals.

The contract bit is iffy to me. If they made the changes Walsh requested and returned it, why wouldn't be reply to them? Even to say no?

Genuinely I think AIBA, ISC and Walsh all look bad because of this. I don't blame the AIAB trying to spin that his leaving won't have that big an effect. They were clever not to get too personal

Strazdas

Dodge wrote: »

But isn't the opposite line true too? The IABA should do its job and the ISC should shut up? I don't see why anyone has any more confidence in the ISC than they do in the IABA?

I think the IABA are well meaning but they're clearly not professionals.

The contract bit is iffy to me. If they made the changes Walsh requested and returned it, why wouldn't be reply to them? Even to say no?

Genuinely I think AIBA, ISC and Walsh all look bad because of this. I don't blame the AIAB trying to spin that his leaving won't have that big an effect. They were clever not to get too personal

The IABA don't clarify at all what happened on August 22 and in the next two days. Kieran Mulvey is insistent that a deal was agreed at this meeting, everyone shook hands on the deal (including the CEO Fergal Carruth) and then Mulvey was shocked and flabbergasted to receive a phone call from Carruth two days later saying effectively that all bets were off and the deal wouldn't be forwarded to the IABA board for approval.

Everything that happened subsequently was an attempt to salvage something from the wreckage of that debacle.

Clearlier

Dodge wrote: »

But isn't the opposite line true too? The IABA should do its job and the ISC should shut up? I don't see why anyone has any more confidence in the ISC than they do in the IABA?

It's the ISC's job to ensure that the AIBA are doing their job well. I have more confidence in them than the IABA because this isn't the first time that they've come up against a dysfunctional organisation IIRC. The ISC is way more important to the IABA than the AIBA is to the ISC and someone like Kieran Mulvey brings an awful lot of credibility to the table particularly when it comes to negotiating pay deals.

Dodge

Clearlier wrote: »

It's the ISC's job to ensure that the AIBA are doing their job well. I have more confidence in them than the IABA because this isn't the first time that they've come up against a dysfunctional organisation IIRC. The ISC is way more important to the IABA than the AIBA is to the ISC and someone like Kieran Mulvey brings an awful lot of credibility to the table particularly when it comes to negotiating pay deals.

Again, I'm not arguing for the AIBA. I'm just pointing out they're not the only party here with questions to answer.

Everyone is answerable to someone

Clearlier

Dodge wrote: »

Again, I'm not arguing for the AIBA. I'm just pointing out they're not the only party here with questions to answer.

Everyone is answerable to someone

I was just explaining why it isn't the case that the AIBA should just do it's job and the ISC should shut up. They shouldn't because it's their job to intervene.

feargale

MEN'S HOCKEY:
Africa Olympics Qualifying Tournament opening games today.
RESULTS
Zimbabwe 0, South Africa 16; Namibia 5, Botswana 0 (Botswana forfeited).
Final on Sunday 1st November.

Dodge

Australia beat New Zealand 3-2! Ireland have officially qualified in hockey for the 2016 Olympics

https://twitter.com/fih_hockey/status/658143870597754880

Dan man

Finally, it's our time, finally it is us who are going to the Olympics!!

Thank you to the Kookaburrras for realising our dream!!
Rio here we come!! Woohoo

efb

Congrats Ireland's Men's Hockey for qualifying for Rio

Cosmo Kramer

First qualification for an Irish field sports team since 1948. A shocking record that I wasn't aware of before today but at least it's broken now. It will be great to have a team event to follow during the Olympics and hopefully they will take a scalp or two.

Does this put us on course to send our biggest ever Olympic team to Rio?

Skid X

Terrific stuff, Ireland fully deserve their place after their performances this year. They won't just be making up the numbers.

It must have been an agonising wait for the team to wait on other results before they could finally book their Rio tickets.

Dodge

History if Irish teams at the Olympics

http://www.balls.ie/other-sports/short-history-of-ireland-at-the-olympics-in-team-sports/299617#

We've 43 now. Record is 73. 66 in London

The_Kew_Tour

Great stuff.

Stheno

Dodge wrote: »

Australia beat New Zealand 3-2! Ireland have officially qualified in hockey for the 2016 Olympics

https://twitter.com/fih_hockey/status/658143870597754880

First time in 108 years, that's incredible.

Dodge

First time ever, really. That team won silver for GB

curly from cork

Dodge wrote: »

First time ever, really. That team won silver for GB

Also in those times you entered a team rather than qualifying! fantastic result for the lads . Really great for Irish hockey. Hopefully the IHA will waste no time and promote hockey at grass routes . Cricket Ireland have done a great job promoting the game , hockey needs to do the same .

feargale

TEAM MINUTE SHIRT # PLAYER ACTION SCORE
AUS. 4 4 TURNER Glenn FG 1 - 0
AUS. 6 1 DWYER Jamie FG 2 - 0
NZL 20 1 COUGHLAN JamesFG 2 - 1
AUS. 44 25 MITTON Trent FG 3 - 1
NZL. 53 21 RUSSELL Kane PC 3 - 2

Jamie Dwyer scored the second goal. He is the Christy Ring of Aussie hockey, a legend in his lifetime. With that surname he must have Tipperary blood. I knew Irish-Australia would come good

It's a welcome change in a bad week for Irish sport.

Will the Gleghorne brothers make history by being the first Olympic brothers on different teams, possibly playing against each other?

The_Kew_Tour

What are the chances of us getting medal in hockey?

Is this a case of going there and step in right direction or is there a chance they can make impact?

feargale

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What are the chances of us getting medal in hockey?

Is this a case of going there and step in right direction or is there a chance they can make impact?

Well, they're European bronze medallists. That should leave them with an outside chance. Of course there are big hitters outside Europe e.g. Australia and Argentina, but Ireand seem to be getting better along the way.

Stheno

curly from cork wrote: »

Also in those times you entered a team rather than qualifying! fantastic result for the lads . Really great for Irish hockey. Hopefully the IHA will waste no time and promote hockey at grass routes . Cricket Ireland have done a great job promoting the game , hockey needs to do the same .

Do cricket clubs have older leagues and would they welcome a newbie in their forties?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What are the chances of us getting medal in hockey?

Is this a case of going there and step in right direction or is there a chance they can make impact?

There are only twelve teams, chance in three of at least getting to the semis

Cosmo Kramer

I think we should be realistic about the hockey team, they're ranked 14 in the world and 10 out of the qualifiers for Rio. It would be a huge ask for them to reach the semis.

Dodge

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I think we should be realistic about the hockey team, they're ranked 14 in the world and 10 out of the qualifiers for Rio. It would be a huge ask for them to reach the semis.

Of course. But those rankings are weird (like all team rankings). They beat several higher ranked teams in the WHL and beat 4th and 5th ranked Belgium and England in the Europeans. At the moment you have Australia, Germany and Netherlands as the top tier and there isn't that much between the rest

They finished 10th in the WHL and are last qualifiers from there so don't think anyone is saying they're medal favourites but they're improving so can go to Rio with no fear