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FF bounce back - WTF???

124

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Not so - I can admit to being no economic expert. But I base my opinion on two things;

    1) The overwhelming response from experts who 'laugh away' Sinn Fein's policies. Of course, some will agree however I'll go with the vast majority.

    2) Lack of Policies - Last time I checked, the Sinn Fein economic policy section of their website only included a tax on those earning over 100k and the rest of the page dealt with criticizing Fine Gael and Fianna Fail rather than focussing on policies. That's worrying I think you'll agree.

    :confused:

    When was the last time you checked?
    Economy

    Ireland is in deep economic trouble. Incompetent government, corrupt bankers and greedy developers have brought this state to the edge of an economic abyss.

    In the blink of an eye we have gone from boom to bust. The years of budget surpluses have been squandered. Those who claimed that they, and they alone, knew how to run the economy have been exposed for the fraudsters that they are.

    Sinn Féin was berated when we pointed out the obvious flaws in government policy – the creation of a property bubble, the over reliance on consumption taxes, the growing gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’, the rewarding of private greed at the expense of the public good, the failure to think strategically and in the long term interests of the citizens.

    We were right on these matters.

    There is a way forward.

    We can build a country and an economy that creates wealth and shares wealth, that is based on enterprising excellence and social solidarity. A country defined by Irish values of decency, fair play and celebration of achievement.

    We can do this because that is who we are. That is what we are about, that is what our economy must be about. We need a plan to achieve this. We need leadership and Sinn Féin can offer it.

    The government cannot simply tax or cut its way out of this crisis.

    Our number one priority at this time is to get Ireland back to work. The time for action is now.Targets for job creation must be set and met.

    All of those involved in job creation and training –statutory agencies, unions, employers and educationalists - must come together to plot the job creation pathway. We need speedy and deliberate targeting of those sectors where growth is possible –sectors like agri-food, research and development and green technology.

    We need to build the skill base to create and fill new jobs. We need to build the critical infrastructure, schools and houses, public transport and Information Technology.

    Business start ups must be supported by creating one stop enterprise business points offering advice, funding and expertise to entrepreneurs.

    An aggressive export Ireland strategy is urgently required. This is an area of huge potential. Currently 90% of exports from this state are from foreign owned multinationals. Irish enterprises must develop their export capacity. Government policy must drive this.

    We must fight to save existing jobs under threat. Workers and their families deserve no less. Economic recovery demands no less.

    Jobs can be saved. The jobs on the line at SR Technics can be saved. Jobs in construction and retail can be saved. Waterford Crystal can have a future. These and other vulnerable jobs will be lost if the current lacklustre approach by government continues.

    Sinn Féin would not meekly accept the ongoing haemorrhage of skills and global brands from our country. The government needs to get its act together.

    Recovery will not be possible unless we sort out the banks. This requires forthright, decisive actions.

    This is what needs to happen:

    These actions are required immediately if we are to restore domestic and international confidence in financial institutions. The banks are now reliant on taxpayers’ money. The banks must now be forced to impose a moratorium on home repossessions for a minimum of two years.

    Banks must support struggling mortgage holders - by rescheduling repayments and allowing movement from fixed to variable rates without financial penalties. Banks must be obliged to make loans available to small and medium businesses. Viable businesses and jobs will be lost if the credit drought is not resolved quickly. We cannot allow enterprise and workers to suffer at the hands of self centred and self seeking banking practices.

    The banks must pay back the taxpayers money while working in the state’s interest. The need for a state bank, long advocated by Sinn Fein, is now undeniable.

    Then we must deal with the shortfall in public finances.

    Saving must and can be made in a way that is equitable and does not injure our long term goal of a sustainable economy. Sinn Féin set out proposals for raising the €2billion which the government is now implementing through totally unfair cuts. We argued that the government should introduce a new 48% rate of tax on earnings in excess of €100,000 a year, make discretionary tax relief available only at the standard rate and remove the PRSI ceiling.

    These proposals involve some pain, but are equitable and fair.

    We also called for the end to the misuse of taxpayers money in supporting private healthcare and the outrageous pay packages of CEOs of public bodies.

    This state will have to borrow over the next five years. This is the right thing, and the necessary thing, to do. But it must be for smart, strategic investment. The days of shoddy management, sloppy costings and project overruns are over.

    All of this must happen but the establishment of a fair and progressive taxation system is at the core of sustainable public finances. Sinn Féin has long demanded reform – the ending of tax shelters and tax exile status, the ending of the scandal where middle income workers are taxed at the same rate as those earning hundreds of thousands of euros. We are calling for the creation of a third tax rate for these high earners.

    Never was tax reform more urgent than now. Never was it more necessary for the rich to pay their share. We must regain our competitiveness.

    The costs of doing business in Ireland is prohibitive. Misguided government policy has driven Energy costs higher here than anywhere else in Europe and has resulted in a telecommunications infrastructure that is third rate.

    Government must act now to address these issues. Competitiveness will not be secured on the back of cheap, insecure labour. Families on the breadline is not the answer to our problems, reductions in the minimum wage or running down protections for workers is not the solution.

    Investment in skills and education will be the cornerstone of realising our potential. The short-sighted cuts in education, at all levels, must be reversed. There will be no knowledge economy, no ‘smart economy’, if we allow government to vandalise our education system

    This is the time to build the All Ireland economy. Partition is costing Ireland hundreds of millions of euros each year. The simple fact is we cannot afford the border.

    Currency differentials and VAT rate differentials hurt business and the consumer. We need VAT harmonisation, tax harmonisation and nurture a dynamic all Ireland economy.

    Now is the time for transformation, for government with the bold ideas and courage to create a fair and prosperous society. We need to get Ireland back to work. This requires long term strategy, of solidarity and vision.



    http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Ghandee wrote: »
    :confused:

    When was the last time you checked?

    http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy

    That's just a manifesto - there's not one concrete idea or policy in the whole thing apart from some vague stuff about the banks, jobs and tax harmonisation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ghandee wrote: »
    :confused:

    When was the last time you checked?





    http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy
    ^^ Pretty much all waffle on there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    According to the latest MRBI/Irish Times poll that will be published in tomorrow's Irish Times, Fianna Fail have recovered support to the extent that they are now the second political party in terms of support.:eek:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1017/breaking57.html

    WTF is wrong with people? Do they really have that short a memory? It's truly depressing.:mad::(


    The truth is the opposition vote is either very looney left / SF or FF!

    FF is the least of these,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 346 ✭✭dorkacle


    Not saying that they have gone up in my opinion at all... but in fairness the Irish public haven't exactly got a lot of choice in political parties to run this country do they?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    Ghandee wrote: »
    The biggest joke of a party ever to try to scam the public and that link proves it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    That's just a manifesto - there's not one concrete idea or policy in the whole thing apart from some vague stuff about the banks, jobs and tax harmonisation.

    There is more on the economic section of the website than:
    Lack of Policies - Last time I checked, the Sinn Fein economic policy section of their website only included a tax on those earning over 100k and the rest of the page dealt with criticizing Fine Gael and Fianna Fail rather than focussing on policies. That's worrying I think you'll agree.


    Just thought I'd point it out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Dartz wrote: »
    Could be worse.

    Could be Sinn Fein.

    Really. Someone who was allegedly a member of the IRA Army council sitting on the Government. It'd be a farce.

    There have been quite a few prominent members of the IRA who served effectively in government through the years, or are you going along with the "Old IRA good, Provisional IRA bad" myth?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭MisterEpicurus


    There have been quite a few prominent members of the IRA who served effectively in government through the years, or are you going along with the "Old IRA good, Provisional IRA bad" myth?

    In no way does that make it justifiable or worthy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    There have been quite a few prominent members of the IRA who served effectively in government through the years, or are you going along with the "Old IRA good, Provisional IRA bad" myth?

    Wrong question comrade. The real question is - how could anyone follow or vote for a murdering/fanbhoy scumbag be it old IRA or provo?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus



    Wrong question comrade. The real question is - how could anyone follow or vote for a murdering/fanbhoy scumbag be it old IRA or provo?

    Quite easily if that person is viewed as no longer following that path, worked well enough for South Africans with Nelson Mandela.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭MisterEpicurus


    Quite easily if that person is viewed as no longer following that path, worked well enough for South Africans with Nelson Mandela.

    I'm sick to the teeth of the comparison between Martin McGuinness/Gerry Adams and Nelson Mandela.

    Mandela acknowledges his past, Adams always refuses he was involved in terrorism.

    So you want a murdering liar as Taoiseach? Your choice.

    Scumbag in a suit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus



    I'm sick to the teeth of the comparison between Martin McGuinness/Gerry Adams and Nelson Mandela.

    Mandela acknowledges his past, Adams always refuses he was involved in terrorism.

    So you want a murdering liar as Taoiseach? Your choice.

    Slightly confused here, is your problem with Adams that he was supposedly a member of the IRA or is it that he hasn't admitted to it (assuming he really was a member)?

    In other words, as you distinguish between Adams and Mandela it seems your issue is with the lack of admission, as someone truly concerned with a member of a terrorist organisation being in government would have no trouble with comparing the two and any admission of membership or lack thereof would be beside the point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Slightly confused here, is your problem with Adams that he was supposedly a member of the IRA or is it that he hasn't admitted to it (assuming he really was a member)?

    In other words, as you distinguish between Adams and Mandela it seems your issue is with the lack of admission, as someone truely concerned with a member of a terrorist organisation being in government would have no trouble with comparing the two and any admission of membership or lack thereof would be beside the point.

    I think his point is that he's anti-SF.

    Don't think it would matter who was at the reins of the party.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Ghandee wrote: »

    I think his point is that he's anti-SF.

    Don't think it would matter who was at the reins of the party.

    You are probably right. It is interesting how quickly this thread mirrored ordinary political debate in this country though. A thread about FF has been diverted onto Sinn Fein, just as how the "At least we weren't in the IRA" argument has been used to death by politicians as a Get Out of Jail Free card to escape from engaging in proper debate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    Remember the FF cronys laughed away all the warnings - look where it got us.

    ?

    What ****ing warnings?

    One or two experts predicted this - the vast majority of "experts" didn't foresee this.
    You are asking a member of government to believe a few outsiders rather than the majority of the rabble....that's a big ask.
    Would you or anybody else have acted differently. Maybe Joe Higgins.

    Amd Of course shin fein would - if you believe that you'd believe anything.

    Go back to the mid -00's there were very few warnings. ...despite the number of "I foresaw this" gob****es that are saying now they did.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    What ****ing warnings?

    One or two experts predicted this - the vast majority of "experts" didn't foresee this.
    You are asking a member of government to believe a few outsiders rather than the majority of the rabble....that's a big ask.
    Would you or anybody else have acted differently. Maybe Joe Higgins.

    Amd Of course shin fein would - if you believe that you'd believe anything.

    Go back to the mid -00's there were very few warnings. ...despite the number of "I foresaw this" gob****es that are saying now they did.
    Quiet a few experts warned what would would happen, as far back as 2000 when we were censured by the EU over our budgetry behaviour!
    What was FF's reply Oh yea I remember now Bertie said the naysayers should commit suicide.
    FF were and are lower than a snakes belly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 965 ✭✭✭CucaFace


    You are probably right. It is interesting how quickly this thread mirrored ordinary political debate in this country though. A thread about FF has been diverted onto Sinn Fein, just as how the "At least we weren't in the IRA" argument has been used to death by politicians as a Get Out of Jail Free card to escape from engaging in proper debate.

    How is it interesting?

    A thread about the rise in support for FFstarts , people complain about this , some meantion what other options are really out there?, Sine fein are obviously brought into the conversation as they are really the only large enough party never to have to come into power here, then their massive flaws are meantioned (thankfully) and the Sinners come on trying to defend murderers and scum bags by trying to deflect questions and proper accustaions away.

    Whats your take by the way on the way Sein Fein and their members won't condemn the killers of Garda McCabe?

    An honest normal Irish man who one day got up to go to work and tried to do his duty when 2 IRA scum bags decided to rob a bank and shoot this man in cold blood???

    What do you make of the way Gerry,Martin and Co still won't condemn this vile act?

    Ghandee you can answer also if you want?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    It's not so much about the wealth tax that I was criticizing them. I was making a point that when it comes to solve the crises, all I hear it the following;

    > Tax of 48% on those over 100k.
    > Burn the bondholders
    > Reject all treaties
    > Rinse and Repeat

    Are you seriously telling me you'd want this in government led by Gerry Adams who has to be considered one of the worst TD's in the Dail. While he might be good controlling an illegal army, when it comes to politics and economics, he's out of his depth.

    Different strokes for different folks though.


    ahhh, there's the rub.

    nothing to do with policies at all is it epicurus. :D more of an emotional outburst going from the above paragraph.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    In no way does that make it justifiable or worthy.

    but you went along with it :D:D


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭Brain Stroking


    ahhh, there's the rub.

    nothing to do with policies at all is it epicurus. :D more of an emotional outburst going from the above paragraph.

    I find either the lack of policy angle or the murdering scum angle to be both equally effective in damning Gerry Adams.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    What ****ing warnings?

    One or two experts predicted this - the vast majority of "experts" didn't foresee this.
    You are asking a member of government to believe a few outsiders rather than the majority of the rabble....that's a big ask.
    Would you or anybody else have acted differently. Maybe Joe Higgins.

    Amd Of course shin fein would - if you believe that you'd believe anything.

    Go back to the mid -00's there were very few warnings. ...despite the number of "I foresaw this" gob****es that are saying now they did.

    honey I can go back to the 70's and 80's if you want. There were plenty of warning signs. Hell, even the dogs on the street knew there was something amiss. for people not to see it must mean they were blinded by the fools gold.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Duck Soup wrote: »
    Everything you say is true. But did FG run - or is running - the entire economy for the benefit of one group that directly lined their pockets via party donations and plain old corruption?

    We are where we are as a direct result of the bonds between FF, property developers and banks. That there is even the prospect that they should be back in government at any time within the next 20 years is insane; never mind that their current leader was named in a tribunal as a part of the brown envelope culture. Absolute insanity.

    Absolutely! I agree with you. FF got us into this mess. They were the ones who did the damage. But FG were in opposition. It was FG's job to suggest alternatives to government/party in power. Where did FG shout stop in any of that maddness. FG were calling for more spending.

    If you think we'd be in a different place if FG were in power, we wouldn't be. In fact we'd be in a worse place with a much bigger deficit because FG were calling for more Gardai, more teachers, an ipad or something similiar for every 2nd level student, etc.
    Whether they would have encoraged a property boom, ir whether they would have handled the bust better, or added a bank guarantee, no body knows.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Fozzie Bear


    Irish people are morons thats why.

    Absolutely!

    The type of morons who continue to re-elect Michael Lowry, a man up to his neck in corruption and shady dealings. But is still a demi God to the good people of Tipperary and not a weasel out to line his own pockets.

    The type of morons who re-elected Beverley Cooper Flynn despite the fact that she lost a high profile libel case against RTE and paid them a pittance of the costs she was ordered to. The fact that she continued claiming an Independent councillors allowance of 40 grand despite having rejoined the FF party and taking a basic salary of 106 grand!

    As for her father before her.......

    The type of morons who elected Gerry Adams a man dripping in the blood of 1000's of innocent victims. Someone who did not even live in their constituency but yet topped the poll!

    The type of morons who elect Martin Ferris. Someone who openly supports the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe so much so he collected them from Castlerea prison at 7am on the morning of their release. Could you imagine that happening in any other democratic civilised country in the world? Britain, France, USA, Italy? Let alone people voting for him again?

    The type of morons who elect the Healy Rae clan in Kerry. People solely worried about tarring roads and filling potholes in Kerry and to hell with the rest of us. As was shown by Jackies deal with FF/Greens to keep them in power. Something Mr Lowry above also signed up to.

    The type of morons who called for Bertie Ahern to return as Taoiseach back in 2009 when the shít really started to hit the fan. His shít! Yet there were people crying out for him to come back because "things were great sure when in was in charge". The same people who would have voted for the cnut if he had run for president and I firmly believe he would have given it a fair ould rattle to. Why? Because we are fúcking morons.

    The type of morons who elected all of the above, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Sean Doherty, Charlie Haughey and miriade of others thats don't come to mind at the moment.

    The type of morons who fail to see that they also have a large hand in this countries financial destruction. We put FF back into power repeatidly. We followed them unquestionly over the edge of the cliff. The type of morons who will without doubt go out and vote FF at the next general election having already done so at the last one giving them 20 seats! They should have got 0! Maybe the free cheese was a bigger draw then I thought....

    We have made millionaires out of some of the biggest gangsters, chancers, corrupt, immoral, two faced murdering scum bags this country has ever seen and will continue to do so. Why?

    Because we are morons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 346 ✭✭dorkacle


    Solair wrote: »
    Admittedly the current lot aren't exactly amazing, but I'd rather see an inanimate carbon rod running the country than FF !

    Is that an option?! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    Absolutely!

    The type of morons who continue to re-elect Michael Lowry, a man up to his neck in corruption and shady dealings. But is still a demi God to the good people of Tipperary and not a weasel out to line his own pockets.

    The type of morons who re-elected Beverley Cooper Flynn despite the fact that she lost a high profile libel case against RTE and paid them a pittance of the costs she was ordered to. The fact that she continued claiming an Independent councillors allowance of 40 grand despite having rejoined the FF party and taking a basic salary of 106 grand!

    As for her father before her.......

    The type of morons who elected Gerry Adams a man dripping in the blood of 1000's of innocent victims. Someone who did not even live in their constituency but yet topped the poll!

    The type of morons who elect Martin Ferris. Someone who openly supports the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe so much so he collected them from Castlerea prison at 7am on the morning of their release. Could you imagine that happening in any other democratic civilised country in the world? Britain, France, USA, Italy? Let alone people voting for him again?

    The type of morons who elect the Healy Rae clan in Kerry. People solely worried about tarring roads and filling potholes in Kerry and to hell with the rest of us. As was shown by Jackies deal with FF/Greens to keep them in power. Something Mr Lowry above also signed up to.

    The type of morons who called for Bertie Ahern to return as Taoiseach back in 2009 when the shít really started to hit the fan. His shít! Yet there were people crying out for him to come back because "things were great sure when in was in charge". The same people who would have voted for the cnut if he had run for president and I firmly believe he would have given it a fair ould rattle to. Why? Because we are fúcking morons.

    The type of morons who elected all of the above, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Sean Doherty, Charlie Haughey and miriade of others thats don't come to mind at the moment.

    The type of morons who fail to see that they also have a large hand in this countries financial destruction. We put FF back into power repeatidly. We followed them unquestionly over the edge of the cliff. The type of morons who will without doubt go out and vote FF at the next general election having already done so at the last one giving them 20 seats! They should have got 0! Maybe the free cheese was a bigger draw then I thought....

    We have made millionaires out of some of the biggest gangsters, chancers, corrupt, immoral, two faced murdering scum bags this country has ever seen and will continue to do so. Why?

    Because we are morons.

    brilliant post.

    nail heads everywhere wincing.

    irish people are only really interested in 'their own kind'. See the fiasco in cavan. We're tricked like idiots. You can win some people's votes just by calling yourself a republican.

    The political landscape is so primitive that FF who have been in government an embarrassing 75% of our history, don't even have a political principle. They can swap from left to right to whatever they think the idiot on the street wants. The farmers party, the banks party or the builders party.

    I just know they'll be back again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Leftist wrote: »
    brilliant post.

    nail heads everywhere wincing.

    irish people are only really interested in 'their own kind'. See the fiasco in cavan. We're tricked like idiots. You can win some people's votes just by calling yourself a republican.

    The political landscape is so primitive that FF who have been in government an embarrassing 75% of our history, don't even have a political principle. They can swap from left to right to whatever they think the idiot on the street wants. The farmers party, the banks party or the builders party.

    I just know they'll be back again.

    It's a little insulting to lob us all in with 'we' because we are not all the same. But yeah I agree with this and slightly agree with fozzie bear.

    I remember just after December's budget of 2010, just right after the reins of the country were handed over to the IMF and ECB.

    I was taking a walk with my mother (late 50s) and we bumped into two gossip biddies/neighbours, also both late 50s. They all came from similiar backgrounds as in married in the 70s or 80s, gave up work when they had kids and were stay at home mothers.

    I explained to my mother when the IMF and ECB what that meant for the country. And she got the general gist of things and she knew we were well into a recession.

    So anyways on this particular day that we were out walking, they all had a natter about the budget and what were taken away from them and their families. Real anger in the air too about it.
    I was gobsmacked. Fcuking clueless what position Ireland was in or if they knew, they did not care. All they cared about were their own pockets.

    Greed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    It's a little insulting to lob us all in with 'we' because we are not all the same. But yeah I agree with this and slightly agree with fozzie bear.

    I remember just after December's budget of 2010, just right after the reins of the country were handed over to the IMF and ECB.

    I was taking a walk with my mother (late 50s) and we bumped into two gossip biddies/neighbours, also both late 50s. They all came from similiar backgrounds as in married in the 70s or 80s, gave up work when they had kids and were stay at home mothers.

    I explained to my mother when the IMF and ECB what that meant for the country. And she got the general gist of things and she knew we were well into a recession.

    So anyways on this particular day that we were out walking, they all had a natter about the budget and what were taken away from them and their families. Real anger in the air too about it.
    I was gobsmacked. Fcuking clueless what position Ireland was in or if they knew, they did not care. All they cared about were their own pockets.

    Greed.


    if your mother is in her 50's then I am wondering why she didn't say

    "Recession? what are you talking about. I've lived through more recession than you will ever know - real recessions pet, not recessions where you have to give up your luxury items that you didn't own in the first place"

    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    if your mother is in her 50's then I am wondering why she didn't say

    "Recession? what are you talking about. I've lived through more recession than you will ever know - real recessions pet, not recessions where you have to give up your luxury items that you didn't own in the first place"

    :D


    she probably knew what a recession was and what to expect.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Leftist wrote: »
    she probably knew what a recession was and what to expect.

    yes I'd say she knew what a recession was, and I'd say she is still waiting for it to arrive


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    How are they any worse than FG?
    At least with FF everyone was on the take. Now all jobs are farmed out to FGers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    yes I'd say she knew what a recession was, and I'd say she is still waiting for it to arrive

    The only thing she is waiting for to arrive is the fuel allowance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    A national government is the way to go. Get the best people into areas that they know something about, irrespective of parties. When/if the country gets back on track, they can get back to party politics.

    This will never happen. FF will no doubt be in power shortly, as there isn't an alturnative.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭Overflow


    I think its time for a complete reform, a Socialist Government perhaps...
    Both Socialist Youth and the Socialist Party itself have as key policies the taking of economic power out of the hands of the bankers, speculators and wealthy industrialists and instead transfer that power to working-class people. The Socialist Party stands for public ownership and democratic economic planning of the key areas of economic activity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Ireland)

    They campaign against all the things people seem to complain about most:

    Household tax, water & bin charges

    I seriously think these people deserve more support.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    CucaFace wrote: »
    Ghandee you can answer also if you want?

    I'll answer in my own opinion so.


    CucaFace wrote: »
    How is it interesting?

    A thread about the rise in support for FFstarts , people complain about this , some meantion what other options are really out there?, Sine fein are obviously brought into the conversation as they are really the only large enough party never to have to come into power here, then their massive flaws are meantioned (thankfully) and the Sinners come on trying to defend murderers and scum bags by trying to deflect questions and proper accustaions away.

    I'm not trying to defend any murderer or scumbags, as I do not currently know of any in the party, and I can say that honestly.

    If, however you do, or suspect you do, I think you should take yourself to the nearest Garda or PSNI station and report what it is you know, or think you know regarding murders.
    CucaFace wrote: »
    Whats your take by the way on the way Sein Fein and their members won't condemn the killers of Garda McCabe?

    An honest normal Irish man who one day got up to go to work and tried to do his duty when 2 IRA scum bags decided to rob a bank and shoot this man in cold blood???

    What do you make of the way Gerry,Martin and Co still won't condemn this vile act?

    I will admit than I am not fully up to speed with the muder of McCabe (I was in my late teens when this happened) but, afaik it was denounced/condemned by Sinn Fein at the time (open to correction)?

    Regardless of Gerry Adams, or Martin McGuinness (The former, I do not believe is a good leader as it happens) condeming or not condeming (I believe SF as a party did however) I fully condem the killing of a member of An Garda Síochána, their can be no justification in the killing of a member of the Irish security forces IMO.

    None.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    If ever any of ye want prove that FG are the same as FF (right, they had/have different agendas but they're all still greedy):

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1018/breaking1.html

    Do you remember the fiscal referendum back in May/June of this year where a yes vote would get us a deal on the banking debt/crisis and we would get some sort of debt forgiveness, well, Enda lied.
    Germany says no! A nice big fat fcuk you to Ireland.
    Enda is a fcuking puppet for Germany. When will he realise he is supposed to work for us and not for Germany.

    We saw the mess that FF did and the greed and corruption in their party and that they were rotten to the core and we kicked them out, hoping for change. Hoping that FG could deliver on a change. FF were in bed with bankers and developers. FG are in bed with Europe. They should be working for us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    dont trust any of them. Believe me they are not going to change.

    anyone who trusts a politician deserves everything they get.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 469 ✭✭geetar


    Overflow wrote: »
    I think its time for a complete reform, a Socialist Government perhaps...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Ireland)

    They campaign against all the things people seem to complain about most:

    Household tax, water & bin charges

    I seriously think these people deserve more support.


    the socialist party uses stupid buzz words like bondholders, household tax, and the IMF to gain support from the people most hurt by this recession.

    they do not have any credible plans for economic recovery whatsoever. sinn fein and the socialist party would like you to believe you dont need the IMF, but they're completely wrong. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

    tha days of the blame game are over, we need to suck it up, shut up, and take our medicine


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 469 ✭✭geetar


    Ghandee wrote: »
    their can be no justification in the killing of a member of the Irish security forces IMO.

    None.

    does that underlining emphasise that you think killing brittish security forces is acceptable behaviour? if so, sinn feins for you


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    FG are in bed with Europe. They should be working for us.
    Enda Kenny is in Europe as we speak attempting to negotiate a deal on the debt on our behalf.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1018/enda-kenny-eu-summit.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    dvpower wrote: »
    Enda Kenny is in Europe as we speak attempting to negotiate a deal on the debt on our behalf.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1018/enda-kenny-eu-summit.html

    are you sure he's not over there getting tickled. :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    geetar wrote: »
    does that underlining emphasise that you think killing brittish security forces is acceptable behaviour? if so, sinn feins for you
    British security forces and British children are apparently fair game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    geetar wrote: »

    does that underlining emphasise that you think killing brittish security forces is acceptable behaviour? if so, sinn feins for you

    I'm pretty sure Sinn Fein don't support killing British security forces now that there is a stable peace and a working democracy up North, just as how the main parties in the Republic no longer supported the killing of members of the British (and Irish) security forces once a stable peace emerged after the War of Independence and the Civil War.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    FF voters ha gone temporarily to SF rather than FG now they will vote for FF again rather than FG or Labour. The rise of FF coincides with a drop for SF. That is where these voters are coming from.

    That is who they are ......goes to show you the type they are and that many SFers were probably FFers who got us into this.

    I wonder what age demographic they are.


    Yes this country is full of ill educated morons who can't even seem to sort their own personal finances out, elect people who fleece them and allow an institution guilty of hiding child rapists exist.

    It is a dark ages folklore mentality. They are idiots.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    geetar wrote: »
    does that underlining emphasise that you think killing brittish security forces is acceptable behaviour? if so, sinn feins for you

    Was/Is it acceptable for members of the British security forces to kill innocent civillians in the six counties, or indeed members of the IRA armed/unarmed?


    Next, let me ask you where in Ireland you are from, and have you seen members of the RUC/British Army shoot unarmed people, who have had no connections any Political parties whatsoever?

    Some of us came/come from a part of this Island where giving your name to a 'poloiceman' or a loyalist bully boy masquarading as a UDR soldier, while stopped at a 'security' checkpoint might very well mean your name, adress, car make, colour and registration was swiftly handed over to a member of a loyalist terrorist organisation in some back street seedy bar.

    Unfortunately for some of us, being born of a certain religion automatically added us to a hitlist made up by drunken loyalists, to be shot for no other reason than your faith.

    A war raged in the north for the guts of 50 years, killing were done on both sides. Kindly try to remind yourself that is all I ask.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    Enda Kenny is in Europe as we speak attempting to negotiate a deal on the debt on our behalf.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1018/enda-kenny-eu-summit.html

    I'd say that clown 'attempts' to tie his own shoe laces every morning.

    Whats the odds he actually succeeds this time? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 965 ✭✭✭CucaFace


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I'll answer in my own opinion so.





    I'm not trying to defend any murderer or scumbags, as I do not currently know of any in the party, and I can say that honestly.

    If, however you do, or suspect you do, I think you should take yourself to the nearest Garda or PSNI station and report what it is you know, or think you know regarding murders.



    I will admit than I am not fully up to speed with the muder of McCabe (I was in my late teens when this happened) but, afaik it was denounced/condemned by Sinn Fein at the time (open to correction)?

    Regardless of Gerry Adams, or Martin McGuinness (The former, I do not believe is a good leader as it happens) condeming or not condeming (I believe SF as a party did however) I fully condem the killing of a member of An Garda Síochána, their can be no justification in the killing of a member of the Irish security forces IMO.

    None.

    Sine Fein have never condemned this killing.

    Martin Ferris has often had this put to him as he is actually from the same
    Electorate where Garda McCabe was born and raised, ie Kerry North.

    You should maybe watch the documentary that his widow did a few years ago about all this and the way Sein Fein have acted and got those 2 scum bags released under the good friday agreement.

    It might open your eyes up to who Sein Fein really are.

    Its funny when i see so many Sein Fein supporters crying out that all the bankers and politicians should be in jail, but yet have no problem with cold blooded murderers being left out of jail after serving very little time for killing a Garda.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    British security forces and British children are apparently fair game.

    I think you might find their was a lot more children killed from the 'other' side DV.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbullet.htm

    Will you acknowledge the deaths of kids from the British forces at all, or will you conveniently gloss over them?

    Dont let the facts of a bad episode of our history get in the way of your good old anti-SF rants, must be a worrying time for an FG fanboy to see the whole little empire implode on yourselves barely 18 months into govt?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    CucaFace wrote: »
    Sine Fein have never condemned this killing.

    Martin Ferris has often had this put to him as he is actually from the same
    Electorate where Garda McCabe was born and raised, ie Kerry North.

    You should maybe watch the documentary that his widow did a few years ago about all this and the way Sein Fein have acted and got those 2 scum bags released under the good friday agreement.

    It might open your eyes up to who Sein Fein really are.

    Its funny when i see so many Sein Fein supporters crying out that all the bankers and politicians should be in jail, but yet have no problem with cold blooded murderers being left out of jail after serving very little time for killing a Garda.

    I dont feel the need for the completely over the top fonts, but I will give you a source that completely contradicts you.
    SINN FÉIN presidential candidate and former republican paramilitary Martin McGuinness has “unreservedly” condemned the IRA killing of Det Garda Jerry McCabe in an attempted robbery at Adare, Co Limerick, in June, 1996.

    “I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe,” he said in Dublin yesterday. “It was a terrible injustice on himself, on his wife, and on his family. It was a terrible, terrible tragedy and brought no credit whatsoever to Irish republicanism.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0921/1224304483527.html

    A quick google brings up another source.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcguinness-does-uturn-to-condemn-mccabe-killers-2880476.html

    Many more are there to see, but sure I'll let you go off in your own fantasy world.

    Now. Where does that leave us?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,195 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I dont feel the need for the completely over the top fonts, but I will give you a source that completely contradicts you.



    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0921/1224304483527.html

    A quick google brings up another source.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcguinness-does-uturn-to-condemn-mccabe-killers-2880476.html

    Many more are there to see, but sure I'll let you go off in your own fantasy world.

    Now. Where does that leave us?

    In 2011. I wonder what prompted that?


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