Romney and Women

southsiderosie

I raised the issue in the debate thread, but I think it may be worth its own thread.

Mitt Romney made some interesting comments regarding women last night. A few that jumped out for me:

Flex time - Wait, this is good because women can get home to cook dinner? Can't - and more importantly, shouldn't - flex time matter for families, not just for women to start the 'second shift'?

Reproductive health - He's been flip-flopping on this since he ran in Massachusetts, so at this point let's just assume that his position will be whatever is politically expedient.

Bindergate - When I thought about it later though, the one that bothered me the most was the binder comment. Regardless of whether it was true or not, the fact that in an attempt to pander to women he would claim that he had to get outside help to hire women was mind-boggling. He's managed a firm and ran two political campaigns, and in all of that time never hired, networked with, or came across any women who would be suitable to appoint to his government? Really? What does that say about him as a manager?

I am no fan of George W. Bush, but he was willing and able to appoint women to serious, powerful positions within his cabinet and inner circle of advisors, and could do so without outside help. And although there have been complaints that the Obama White House is rather laddish, again, he didn't seem to have issues finding smart, competent women to put in powerful positions.

The long and short of it is, what is the deal with Mitt Romney and women? I felt like I was in a 1962 time warp (and the fact that he reminds me of Duck Phillips on 'Mad Men' doesn't really help!).

Black Swan

To add to your list:
The glass ceiling was not removed when Romney was Governor of MA.

Romney told that story in an effort to demonstrate how well his administration had done in hiring women. Except it didn't. A study by the University of Massachusetts and the Center for Women in Politics and Public Policy shows that the percentage of women in senior positions during his tenure actually declined. It went from 30% when Romney took office to 27% when he left

The Bishop!

It's sad alright. The binder story seems a little bit made-up-on-the-spot. Anyway whether true or not, it speaks volumes.

Depressing to say, but this is typical and he's a product of his environment to a large extent; patriarchy is definitely alive and kicking in all the circles he moves in - right-wing politics and finance.
Not to mention the church he's a member of is not well known for gender equality, polygamy was the done thing in great grandaddy Romney's time..

southsiderosie

The Bishop! wrote: »

It's sad alright. The binder story seems a little bit made-up-on-the-spot. Anyway whether true or not, it speaks volumes.

Depressing to say, but this is typical and he's a product of his environment to a large extent; patriarchy is definitely alive and kicking in all the circles he moves in - right-wing politics and finance.
Not to mention the church he's a member of is not well known for gender equality, polygamy was the done thing in great grandaddy Romney's time..

But how does the right-wing thing explain Dubya's administration?

I would agree that Mormonism is pretty patriarchal, but isn't Catholicism?

Women are under-represented in finance, and that would have particularly been the case in the 1990s. So maybe that is a part of it, but I would think that, having run for office in Massachusetts twice, that Romney would have been able to find some female Republican staffers? Hell, his Lieutenant Governor was a woman, as was his Republican predecessor in the statehouse.

The Bishop!

southsiderosie wrote: »

But how does the right-wing thing explain Dubya's administration?

True. That's one thing to be said for him.

It got me curious about current Dem/Rep figures. According to this, of the 74 women serving in the House, 24 are Republican (50 Democrat). In the Senate, out a total 17, 5 Republicans.
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/R41647.pdf

I would agree that Mormonism is pretty patriarchal, but isn't Catholicism?

Sure is. I can't think of one that isn't to some degree..

Women are under-represented in finance, and that would have particularly been the case in the 1990s. So maybe that is a part of it, but I would think that, having run for office in Massachusetts twice, that Romney would have been able to find some female Republican staffers? Hell, his Lieutenant Governor was a woman, as was his Republican predecessor in the statehouse.

Can't remember exactly where i saw it or who it was, but someone was on TV last night (MSNBC?) flatly denying these 'binders of women' even existed. EDIT: Or he did get the binders but didn't ask for it. Or something. http://video.msnbc.msn.com/martin-bashir/49453518/#49453518

Amerika

Bindergate... LOL. The last vestige (or would that be vessel) of hope from a failed administration? Although I don’t get political feeds, I do follow the news and have seen Obama and Biden this week using the "binder" bit on the political stump. I do find that rather ironic coming from an administration whose former White House Communications Director Anita Dunn was quoted as saying "this place would be in court for a hostile workplace... Because it actually fit all of the classic legal requirements for a genuinely hostile workplace to women," and a White House where the median female employee's salary was $11,000 less than their male counterparts. I guess the administration is lucky most of the female staff just grin and bare it.

Personally if I were looking for some of the best and brightest women to complement and diversify my administration with a more representative mix, I’d want a binder filled with potential candidates… listing their experience, qualifications and education. It beats parading them down a runway. I’m sure Romney had the opportunity to work with some truly exceptional women in his career, but perhaps he wanted to expand upon his resources and match them up against other candidates with government experience, whom might be more suitable to the positions at hand. One of his strengths throughout his career was surrounding himself with talented and capable people. The true measure would be what Romney’s administration looked like before the initiative, and what it looked like afterwards. In February 2004, a year after becoming governor, 10 of the 20 top positions in Romney’s administration were filled by women, including lieutenant governor Kerry Healey.

Duck Soup

Amerika wrote: »

Bindergate... LOL. The last vestige (or would that be vessel) of hope from a failed administration? Although I don’t get political feeds, I do follow the news and have seen Obama and Biden this week using the "binder" bit on the political stump. I do find that rather ironic coming from an administration whose former White House Communications Director Anita Dunn was quoted as saying "this place would be in court for a hostile workplace... Because it actually fit all of the classic legal requirements for a genuinely hostile workplace to women," and a White House where the median female employee's salary was $11,000 less than their male counterparts. I guess the administration is luckily most of the female staff just grin and bare it.

Personally if I were looking for some of the best and brightest women to complement and diversify my administration with a more representative mix, I’d want a binder filled with potential candidates… listing their experience, qualifications and education. It beats parading them down a runway. I’m sure Romney had the opportunity to work with some truly exceptional women in his career, but perhaps he wanted to expand upon his resources and match them up against other candidates with government experience, whom might be more suitable to the positions at hand. One of his strengths throughout his career was surrounding himself with talented and capable people. The true measure would be what Romney’s administration looked like before the initiative, and what it looked like afterwards. In February 2004, a year after becoming governor, 10 of the 20 top positions in Romney’s administration were filled by women, including lieutenant governor Kerry Healey.

Fascinating stuff. Unfortunately, that wasn't what the voter asked. The question was "In what new ways do you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace, specifically regarding females making only seventy-two percent of what their male counterparts earn?"

Amerika

Duck Soup wrote: »

Fascinating stuff. Unfortunately, that wasn't what the voter asked. The question was "In what new ways do you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace, specifically regarding females making only seventy-two percent of what their male counterparts earn?"

Hmmm… well then in the words of Saturday Night Live’s immortal character Emily Litella (made famous by Gilda Radner and representing a parody of the Fairness Doctrine)... Never Mind!

Ozymandius2011

According to Fox, the number 1 issue for women in the Swing States is abortion (at 39%). Romney will need to tread carefully to distance himself from the GOP platform of no-exceptions to allow abortion. Hence his position of allowing it in cases of rape, incest and to save the mother's life.

jank

Duck Soup wrote: »

Fascinating stuff. Unfortunately, that wasn't what the voter asked. The question was "In what new ways do you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace, specifically regarding females making only seventy-two percent of what their male counterparts earn?"

I think the problem are those stats, they are not right in the true sense. Permabear has a good post somewhere else in this forums describing why. When you break it down women who are college graduates and work as long as men sometimes out earn men. The stats are slanted by including part time work and the fact the many women are quite happy to take time out of the work force to raise children.

nagilum2

jank wrote: »

I think the problem are those stats, they are not right in the true sense. Permabear has a good post somewhere else in this forums describing why. When you break it down women who are college graduates and work as long as men sometimes out earn men. The stats are slanted by including part time work and the fact the many women are quite happy to take time out of the work force to raise children.

I'm asking this because I genuinely don't know the answer, but do the studies you cite take into account the different choices that men and women often make in their course of study? Anecdotally (again I don't have any stats) I think men are more likely to choose technical fields while women are often more likely to choose arts type courses. Again I don't have stats so don't shoot me, but it would seem that if you simply look at men vs. women of the same level of education, that's not telling the whole story. You have to know the underlying course distributions, because certain courses of study are worth 2-3x others in the open market.

AngeGal

Amerika wrote: »

Bindergate... LOL. The last vestige (or would that be vessel) of hope from a failed administration? Although I don’t get political feeds, I do follow the news and have seen Obama and Biden this week using the "binder" bit on the political stump. I do find that rather ironic coming from an administration whose former White House Communications Director Anita Dunn was quoted as saying "this place would be in court for a hostile workplace... Because it actually fit all of the classic legal requirements for a genuinely hostile workplace to women," and a White House where the median female employee's salary was $11,000 less than their male counterparts. I guess the administration is lucky most of the female staff just grin and bare it.

Personally if I were looking for some of the best and brightest women to complement and diversify my administration with a more representative mix, I’d want a binder filled with potential candidates… listing their experience, qualifications and education. It beats parading them down a runway. I’m sure Romney had the opportunity to work with some truly exceptional women in his career, but perhaps he wanted to expand upon his resources and match them up against other candidates with government experience, whom might be more suitable to the positions at hand. One of his strengths throughout his career was surrounding himself with talented and capable people. The true measure would be what Romney’s administration looked like before the initiative, and what it looked like afterwards. In February 2004, a year after becoming governor, 10 of the 20 top positions in Romney’s administration were filled by women, including lieutenant governor Kerry Healey.

Anita Dunn wasn't made permanent in her interim position....employee released is bitter....shocker.

Kerry Healey wasn't appointed by Romney. Nor were any women to senior departments or departments he cared about. Nor were there any women partners at Bain in his time.

jank

nagilum2 wrote: »

I'm asking this because I genuinely don't know the answer, but do the studies you cite take into account the different choices that men and women often make in their course of study? Anecdotally (again I don't have any stats) I think men are more likely to choose technical fields while women are often more likely to choose arts type courses. Again I don't have stats so don't shoot me, but it would seem that if you simply look at men vs. women of the same level of education, that's not telling the whole story. You have to know the underlying course distributions, because certain courses of study are worth 2-3x others in the open market.

Yes, you are right in one sense. I work in IT for example where the participation of women is usually poor. IT is "generally" well paid depending on your skill set. A man is more likely to work in IT while a woman is more likely to work in a field that may not be as well paid such as hospitality, teaching or administration. Women who do work in IT would be just as rewarded financially as men as the industry is generally very open and transparent.

In other words I take stats that cite a disparity with a pinch of salt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftLLkvEMBtg

Ozymandius2011

Huge gender gap in this election.



Historical comparison including 2012 projection:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.