Investigative documentary on O'Connell Street mall

Qualitymark

Anyone see the programme last night on TG4 about the decades of planning decisions around the giant shopping mall developers want to build in O'Connell Street and environs?

Iniúchadh – Oidhreacht na Cásca

The relatives of 1916 leaders - in their efforts to preserve the historic buildings on Moore Street - stumbled on the real shocking, and murky story, as to how large parts of O' Connell's Street, the capital's main street have lain derelict for nearly 30 years.

Some stunning revelations in the programme - jaw-dropping stuff. It isn't on the RTE Player yet, but presumably should be later today; I think the programme will be repeated later this week.

MadsL

Qualitymark wrote: »

Anyone see the programme last night on TG4 about the decades of planning decisions around the giant shopping mall developers want to build in O'Connell Street and environs?



Some stunning revelations in the programme - jaw-dropping stuff. It isn't on the RTE Player yet, but presumably should be later today; I think the programme will be repeated later this week.

Finally!!

Are investigative journalists just a bit slow in this country, point all the pointers for where to look to them and they just act dumb.

Did they interview Paul Clinton? He has some stories to tell. A great disappointment he dropped his appeal to Bord Pleanala as part of the Oral Hearing. We almost got the full story.

Village magazine ran stories on this years back. Shame no-one listens.

MadsL

Was it subtitled?

seanmacc

Another example of how TG4 is the only credible TV documentry maker in the state. Is there nobody in Montrose that will touch these things?

Qualitymark

It was subtitled.

Interviews with Clinton were interspersed throughout the programme. It talked about the suicide of his colleague in the development, about the legal changes that allowed the development, about in-camera meetings with councillors threatened that they could lose their homes, about a complex deal with a CPO ready to be triggered if... well, I'll let you watch it yourself.

(Couldn't find the multiquote yoke, not that I've ever worked out how to use it.)

I wonder will the revelations of the programme be picked up by Pat Kenny, Joe Duffy, Moncrieff, George Hook, Vincent Browne, Fintan O'Toole, et al. Nothing in the papers today... a great quiet has settled over the land.

It's repeated tomorrow ( October 19 2012) at 7.15pm on TG4. Watch it, record it, share it with your friends and TDs.

dahamsta

EDIT: According to Sky, it's Saturday.

vicwatson

Will this be on the RTE Player at all? or do TG4 have one?

europa11

vicwatson wrote: »

Will this be on the RTE Player at all? or do TG4 have one?

TG4 have one but this programme doesn't seem to be up there yet, probably have to wait until the repeat is broadcast.

Anyway. Linky here..

http://www.tg4.ie/ie/tg4-player/tg4-player.html

MadsL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdWKp3RAUTU

That's James Connolly Heron, grandson of Connolly. He's been a major activist in the Save 16 movement.

Judging by that, I'm guessing the secret contract between Joe O'Reilly and Dublin City Council has been made public.

Time to CPO the whole site out of NAMA and finally get Moore St into some decent order.

MadsL

Qualitymark wrote: »

Interviews with Clinton were interspersed throughout the programme. It talked about the suicide of his colleague in the development, about the legal changes that allowed the development, about in-camera meetings with councillors threatened that they could lose their homes, about a complex deal with a CPO ready to be triggered if... well, I'll let you watch it yourself.

All of this would have come out at the Oral Hearing if Clinton had not dropped his appeal at the last minute.

I can speculate why he changed his mind, and I know what the rumour was, but I have no evidence as to why he changed his mind at the last moment.

I will say however that documents that were requested at this Oral Hearing from Dublin City Council, and promised to the Inspector be made public were never made public and also formed some of the basis of An Taisce's complaint that pre-planning meetings were held with developers but documents never made public and meeting notes not kept.

The abuse of planning is this country has still not been fully investigated. This is a prime example.

MadsL

http://www.tg4.ie/en/tg4-player/tg4-player.html?id=1908363069001&title=Anamnocht

Qualitymark

vicwatson wrote: »

Will this be on the RTE Player at all? or do TG4 have one?

Here you go:

http://www.tg4.ie/en/tg4-player/tg4-player.html?id=1908363069001&title=Anamnocht

MadsL

Just watched it. The Minister should use his powers and take control away from DCC and put it on a National basis. Entire site should then be CPO'd by the State, Treasury Holdings are gone and Chartered Land are only being propped up by NAMA.

Ridiculous that NAMA is throwing quarter of a million in behind O'Reilly.

Whole sorry tale is a national disgrace.

Mannix1888

Was watching that last night, will be interesting to see if this story gains traction as a consequence of the doc.

Qualitymark

If the story sinks, it will be proof of the mafiazation of the entire Irish polity. Surprised it hasn't yet been picked up by Pat Kenny et al.

Anyone have a synopsis for those of us who are short on time?

The relationship between DCC and O' Connell St. has been slightly brushed on before during the prime time into Quirkes unlawful casino operation which is just allowed to operate as though it were a corner shop.

lods

I think Dr. Quirkeys operates inside the law , but uses clever ways of getting around laws that weare supposed to stop gambling. He's not the only one in the city doing it. tThe shame is we're still no closer to getting rid of the derilect site beside Quirkeys & now have the Royal Dublin one too.

MadsL

Village magazine are re-running their 2010 article.

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2012/10/2010-village-article-on-carlton-oconnell-st-corruption-allegations/

The owner of the neighbouring property was Garrett Kelleher, now best-known as promoter of the struggling Chicago Spire – the tallest residential scheme in the world. Clinton asked him if he really was selling to this developer. Kelleher was adamant he was not selling to them as they had bought a property he needed for a few hundred thousand pounds but were insisting the following day he pay a staggering €15 million for it, even though it was only five per cent of the total site. They made a derisory offer for the rest of his acre and when he declined they threatened him that they could engineer a planning refusal and that after that he would be “back on his knees begging for the same offer”. Clinton also says the developers boasted that they could use their influence with Anglo-Irish bank – to prevent competitors from progressing their commercial schemes so the developers could then buy the property cheap directly from Anglo after they foreclosed on the hapless competitor. It was now, the frustrated developer thought, more like a bad episode of Dallas.

Clinton went into Mr A and complained directly to the Official about the threats and boasts, before lunch one day. He says he did not know if they were idle but thought he should know them anyway. Mr A told him, he says, of the “golden rule” of Dublin’s property scene which was that he was “protected”. Furthermore if Clinton was not compliant their lands would be compulsorily purchased. Immediately after lunch a senior political figure with links to the top of the then government contacted Clinton saying there was no need to be upsetting Mr A. While the conversation was initially friendly, he eventually warned Clinton he was playing with fire and if he “knew how this town really worked” he would realise the danger he was in.

Clinton claims that things were so bad at the time that a ministerial adviser was informed of the serious allegations, but no action was taken on foot of another developer’s complaint. Clinton had been interviewed by the Ministerial Adviser in connection with the other developer’s Complaint. While Clinton agreed to come forward as a witness, no official ever got back to him and the person who had made the complaint was just given the complaint back and told to “go home and await further instructions”, if he wanted to do business in this town.

Clinton really needs to be instructed to appear before an Oireachtas Committee and given the protection and immunity from prosection (slander) to repeat all these allegations and name the official.

Media silence on this is deafening. Why?

Qualitymark

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Anyone have a synopsis for those of us who are short on time?

Not really. But it included the death by suicide of one of the original developer, after delays meant his borrowings wrecked his family's finances, an alleged sweetheart deal by which a developer has the right to have the land repurchased by the council if the development isn't completed in time, questions over secrecy, unusual practices and political involvement, councillors allegedly called to a meeting in camera and threatened with losing their homes... just watch it.

MadsL

Qualitymark wrote: »

... just watch it.

+1

Qualitymark

The Village magazine article linked above by Madsl has the story; the documentary puts names to its anonymised figures.

MadsL

Qualitymark wrote: »

The Village magazine article linked above by Madsl has the story; the documentary puts names to its anonymised figures.

Did the doc name Mr A?

Dirk Gently

MadsL wrote: »

Media silence on this is deafening. Why?

I suspect because this is a very small country and a small group of people based in Dublin have a very intermingled and sordid history of corruption. No one in the media wants to scratch the surface as media, bankers, elected officials, developers and consultants will be exposed as having being working hand in hand to enrich themselves.

It's a small city in a small country, much of those pulling the strings know and socialise and have been involved in deals with each other. Can't see many editors giving the go ahead for a serious investigation which might expose those in their own organisation or those that feed it.

MadsL

Dirk Gently wrote: »

I suspect because this is a very small country and a small group of people based in Dublin have a very intermingled and sordid history of corruption. No one in the media wants to scratch the surface as media, bankers, elected officials, developers and consultants will be exposed as having being working hand in hand to enrich themselves.

It's a small city in a small country, much of those pulling the strings know and socialise and have been involved in deals with each other. Can't see many editors giving the go ahead for a serious investigation which might expose those in their own organisation or those that feed it.

That and the fact investigative journalism in Ireland died with Veronica Guerin.

However, what I'm more puzzled by is the apathy here - some pretty explosive revelations, especially the leaking of tax sensitive plans - and yet a tiny number of views and comments.

thebman

Qualitymark wrote: »

Here you go:

http://www.tg4.ie/en/tg4-player/tg4-player.html?id=1908363069001&title=Anamnocht

Wow, this should be compulsory viewing!!

sunshinediver

Dirk Gently wrote: »

I suspect because this is a very small country and a small group of people based in Dublin have a very intermingled and sordid history of corruption. No one in the media wants to scratch the surface as media, bankers, elected officials, developers and consultants will be exposed as having being working hand in hand to enrich themselves.

It's a small city in a small country, much of those pulling the strings know and socialise and have been involved in deals with each other. Can't see many editors giving the go ahead for a serious investigation which might expose those in their own organisation or those that feed it.

BullsEye!!! Your analysis is spot on, Unfortunately!

Qualitymark

I'm astonished by the apathy; I've recommended it to several professionals in the area, who sighed and said they'd believe anything about planning in Ireland - and didn't watch it.

I would have expected there to be a feeding frenzy of journalistic on a documentary with allegations like this. Where is Mary Raftery when you need her? (Probably uncovering dodgy practice at the Pearly Gates and checking St Peter's secret bank accounts.)

Astonished.

thebman

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'm astonished by the apathy; I've recommended it to several professionals in the area, who sighed and said they'd believe anything about planning in Ireland - and didn't watch it.

I would have expected there to be a feeding frenzy of journalistic on a documentary with allegations like this. Where is Mary Raftery when you need her? (Probably uncovering dodgy practice at the Pearly Gates and checking St Peter's secret bank accounts.)

Astonished.

Yeah well Prime Time had a special on the future of TV.

Because there is nothing else of any importance going on in the world except for RTE facing a deficit and wanting someone else to pick up the tab.

MadsL

Just did a search on "Paul Clinton" "Chartered Land" and "Joe O'Reilly"

Only news article of relevance if from that titan of Irish journalism "The Longford Leader"

And it is significant;

Joe O'Reilly's house (now in the Mrs' name like the rest of em) has had a charge put on it.

http://www.longfordleader.ie/news/business/nama-moves-in-on-dromard-developer-joe-o-reilly-s-home-1-4301489

National Asset Management Agency (NAMA) bosses have reportedly lodged a charge against the family home of Longford developer Joe O’Reilly.

Claims over the weekend, one of which featured in a leading Sunday tabloid, indicated senior agency figures registered the charge on the same day his wife, Deirdre transferred the house and surrounding grounds back into Mr O’Reilly’s sole name.

So this is bizarre, NAMA give him a 1/4 million to get the Minister to approve Dublin Central and then try and repossess his house.

And the Longford Leader is the only ones reporting this? I'm so past wtf at this stage.

WHERE IS THE IRISH PRESS?????

thebman

Article in Irish Times about that documentary:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1018/breaking25.html

MadsL

I still have that T shirt and I am in the background of that pic lol.

"The first responsibility is that the local level authority who have direct responsibility for the city manager" should take action, Mr Quinn said.

DCC management have twisted councillors round their fingers for years, what power do the councillors have other than removing the Manager.

Ridiculous.

Qualitymark

MadsL wrote: »

I still have that T shirt and I am in the background of that pic lol.

"The first responsibility is that the local level authority who have direct responsibility for the city manager" should take action, Mr Quinn said.

DCC management have twisted councillors round their fingers for years, what power do the councillors have other than removing the Manager.

Ridiculous.

Surely the councils weren't the ones who ran the tribunals that revealed earlier planning scandals?

expectationlost

surely the dublin councillors were the subject of the investigations of corruption

Qualitymark

And surely there should be an independent investigation.

Qualitymark

Qualitymark wrote: »

And surely there should be an independent investigation.

How exactly? As pointed out earlier the press won't touch things like this because many of them are interconnected in it, judges will be the same.

Dirk Gently

Deleted User wrote: »

How exactly? As pointed out earlier the press won't touch things like this because many of them are interconnected in it, judges will be the same.

The only hope at uncovering truth in Ireland would be an independant international team (or multiple teams) to investigate but even then they'd just be stonewalled at every turn. Too many people and sectors in Ireland are too close to investigate properly.

Qualitymark

Deleted User wrote: »

How exactly? As pointed out earlier the press won't touch things like this because many of them are interconnected in it, judges will be the same.

This hasn't happened with tribunals into mobile phone contracts, planning scandals, etc in the past.

Dirk Gently

Dirk Gently wrote: »

The only hope at uncovering truth in Ireland would be an independant international team (or multiple teams) to investigate but even then they'd just be stonewalled at every turn. Too many people and sectors in Ireland are too close to investigate properly.

It would take the opening of everything for them to get near the truth. The complexities of our laws let alone of what's been going on would require an unbelievable effort and level of access.

Qualitymark wrote: »

This hasn't happened with tribunals into mobile phone contracts, planning scandals, etc in the past.

What have they achieved?

Qualitymark

What have the tribunals achieved? An end, or virtually, to the brazen corruption that was the norm, I think.

MadsL

Qualitymark wrote: »

What have the tribunals achieved? An end, or virtually, to the brazen corruption that was the norm, I think.

The disgrace of a Taoiseach for one.
Appointment of a Planning Regulator for another.

rodento

Anyone know why MadsL is listed as exiled????

MadsL

rodento wrote: »

Anyone know why MadsL is listed as exiled????

Well, there was this documentary and I had to leave

rodento

Opps, thought you'd have posted this:o

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/developer-joe-oreilly-lambasted-over-plans-to-build-on-1916-site-3287759.html

MadsL

The arrogance of O'Reilly not to appear. This is a great shame, I met him in a planning consultation and he was adamant that Dublin City Council were insisting on the "Park in the Sky" crap.

It would have been good had he repeated that to the hearing.

There really needs to be a proper investigation and not one headed by DCC.

expectationlost

this battlefield site stuff.. fair play to tg4 and the group for using that angle to get this story into the news again but its really a sideshow to issue of favoured developers for the shopping site.

Qualitymark

expectationlost wrote: »

this battlefield site stuff.. fair play to tg4 and the group for using that angle to get this story into the news again but its really a sideshow to issue of favoured developers for the shopping site.

Depends on your point of view. If a developer decided to build on the Pont Neuf in Paris, would you say the same? I wouldn't!

expectationlost

Qualitymark wrote: »

Depends on your point of view. If a developer decided to build on the Pont Neuf in Paris, would you say the same? I wouldn't!

I know point neuf is bridge, but is it also a battlesite?

Qualitymark

expectationlost wrote: »

I know point neuf is bridge, but is it also a battlesite?

Historically, yes, though perhaps not in the sense you meant.

expectationlost

Qualitymark wrote: »

Historically, yes, though perhaps not in the sense you meant.

well what do you mean

Qualitymark

expectationlost wrote: »

well what do you mean

Wiki

expectationlost

Qualitymark wrote: »

Wiki

i looked and it didn't help explain whatyou meant