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Dog Radio Fence

135

Comments

  • #62
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    As the original poster I will just reply with my experiences with the radio fence.

    Maggie is now 1 year old. Shes been wearing the collar since she was 5 months. AFAIK shes been shocked twice on the lowest setting possible.
    When she hears the audible warning she slowly retreats.

    She has never broken out.
    She never shows any behavioural issues.
    She is very much a happy and playful dog.
    She has the full run of a 1/2 acre garden.

    It certainly was a great investment.


  • #63
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Like everything else, there will always be people who don't have a problem with these things, but please that don't let that negate the fact that radio fences have caused a lot of problems for a lot of owners, and there are serious welfare issues associated with them. No need for me to go into it any more, it's all been covered in this thread.


  • #64
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    DBB wrote: »
    Like everything else, there will always be people who don't have a problem with these things

    And dogs evidently.


  • #65
    paulmclaughlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭paulmclaughlin


    almighty1 wrote: »
    And dogs evidently.

    Well I'm certainly not going to risk it.


  • #66
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    almighty1 wrote: »
    And dogs evidently.

    I wonder how you can tell? What is it, do you think, that is stopping your dog from crossing the boundary?


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  • #67
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    How can I tell? Well it certainly hasn't impacted on her behaviour or playfulness. She mixes very well with other dogs. She is not aggressive towards other dogs that run out barking at her on her walk.
    She is also very good with my two young children.

    What is it that's stopping her escaping? 100% the radio collar. Before the radio fence she was escaping into a field where there were livestock. She didn't give a hoot what was in there and just ran around. She hasn't gone in there since.

    Well to be honest the boundary is 3/4 fence with wire and 1/4 wall/house so really she would have to dig/climb/jump/whatever to get out. I think the key to the radio fence is to slow the dog down enough so they wont run through a visable opening.


  • #68
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    No, you've missed my point. What iwant to know is, what is it that actually makes the dog think that crossing the boundary is a bad idea? What mechanism do you think it is that taught her that?


  • #69
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    DBB wrote: »
    No, you've missed my point. What iwant to know is, what is it that actually makes the dog think that crossing the boundary is a bad idea? What mechanism do you think it is that taught her that?

    I don't know exactly what you're looking for. She obviously recognises the boundaries as a bad place to go by associating the warning noise and shock and boundary.


  • #70
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    almighty1 wrote: »
    I don't know exactly what you're looking for. She obviously recognises the boundaries as a bad place to go by associating the warning noise and shock and boundary.

    She associates going in that direction with pain and fear. Try turning off the fence and walking her there with a lead, then tell us she doesn't have any behavioural issues :rolleyes:


  • #71
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    almighty1 wrote: »
    I don't know exactly what you're looking for. She obviously recognises the boundaries as a bad place to go by associating the warning noise and shock and boundary.

    Ok. And why would the shock cause her not to want to cross the boundary? Why is the boundary a bad place to go for her?


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  • #72
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    DBB wrote: »
    Ok. And why would the shock cause her not to want to cross the boundary? Why is the boundary a bad place to go for her?

    Because its a shock :rolleyes:.


  • #73
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    Try turning off the fence and walking her there with a lead, then tell us she doesn't have any behavioural issues :rolleyes:

    I have and once she doesn't hear the audible warning, she's fine.


  • #74
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Because its a shock :rolleyes:.

    Please don't use the rolly eyes smiley, I'm genuinely trying to get to the bottom of things here, and using that smiley just makes me feel that you're mocking my efforts, and that's not nice.

    So, to get back on point. The dog doesn't approach the fence because she gets a shock. I think we're agreed on that.
    But do you think the dog has a problem with getting a shock? Do you think it's fear of the shock that stops her from crossing the boundary?


  • #75
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    DBB wrote: »
    But do you think the dog has a problem with getting a shock? Do you think it's fear of the shock that stops her from crossing the boundary?

    Of course the dog doesn't want to get shocked. It is fear of the shock that stops her from crossing the boundary.

    Before we used the shock collar we used a dog run I think 8ft x 8ft. She absolutely hated going into that. Even if we threw in a treat in there she wouldn't go in.

    Now lets assume dogs were intelligent enough to chose, what would they chose in order of preference (lets assume 1 daily walk, 1 daily hour of human contact)

    Inside a house
    Inside a 8ft x 8ft dog run
    In a 1/2 acre back garden with shock collar?


  • #76
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Of course the dog doesn't want to get shocked. It is fear of the shock that stops her from crossing the boundary.

    I'm not getting into what your assumptions are, nor your justifications for using a radio fence to contain your dog.

    I was trying to understand why you said, in your post a while ago, that dogs evdently don't have a problem with the radio fence. However, I put it to you that the radio fence cannot work unless the dog has a problem with it. It can't work unless it causes fear, and it causes fear by being a shock, which is aversive.
    You seem to agree with me so, given what you've answered to my queries above.
    So, it can be said that actually, dogs do have a problem with the radio fence? The issue is, as I said originally today, that some owners don't? In spite of all the evidence, which I linked to above, which shows that they're a welfare issue?
    I'm not interested in degrees or durations of aversion either, particularly not when there is a 100% ethical alternative available.


  • #77
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Of course the dog doesn't want to get shocked. It is fear of the shock that stops her from crossing the boundary.

    Before we used the shock collar we used a dog run I think 8ft x 8ft. She absolutely hated going into that. Even if we threw in a treat in there she wouldn't go in.

    Now lets assume dogs were intelligent enough to chose, what would they chose in order of preference (lets assume 1 daily walk, 1 daily hour of human contact)

    Inside a house
    Inside a 8ft x 8ft dog run
    In a 1/2 acre back garden with shock collar?

    I would say inside a house firstly, since most breeds would require more than one hour of human contact a day. And since walking around a half-acre of the same land they see day-in and day-out is not going to be stimulating enough, one walk a day probably won't cut it either.


  • #78
    Dubl07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Dubl07


    almighty1 wrote: »
    How can I tell? Well it certainly hasn't impacted on her behaviour or playfulness. She mixes very well with other dogs. She is not aggressive towards other dogs that run out barking at her on her walk.
    She is also very good with my two young children.

    Happy days. Since the shock collar and electric fence have contributed so strongly to the health and well-being of your dog I take it you don't bother securing the front door to keep your two young children in the house and off the road. Do they have belts/collars or is the front door handle electrified?


  • #79
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    DBB wrote: »
    I'm not getting into what your assumptions are, nor your justifications for using a radio fence to contain your dog.

    I was trying to understand why you said, in your post a while ago, that dogs evdently don't have a problem with the radio fence. However, I put it to you that the radio fence cannot work unless the dog has a problem with it. It can't work unless it causes fear, and it causes fear by being a shock, which is aversive.
    You seem to agree with me so, given what you've answered to my queries above.
    So, it can be said that actually, dogs do have a problem with the radio fence? The issue is, as I said originally today, that some owners don't? In spite of all the evidence, which I linked to above, which shows that they're a welfare issue?
    I'm not interested in degrees or durations of aversion either, particularly not when there is a 100% ethical alternative available.

    The same can be said for all boundary containment.
    You are assuming that the dog lives in absolute fear constantly off going near the boundary. Perhaps they don't give a flying whatever what happens there now. What welfare issues arise may I ask?

    I'd absolutely dearly love to hear of your 100% ethical alternative.


  • #80
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    I would say inside a house firstly

    Ah here, get up the garden. A dog stuck in a house for any length of time is cruel. Their instinct is to get up and have to good old sniff around their territory to see whats being going on there overnight. I would not confine a dog to a house under no circumstances.


  • #81
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    Dubl07 wrote: »
    Happy days. Since the shock collar and electric fence have contributed so strongly to the health and well-being of your dog I take it you don't bother securing the front door to keep your two young children in the house and off the road. Do they have belts/collars or is the front door handle electrified?

    Read my post again. I didn't say it contributed, I said it didn't impact.
    As for the rest of your post........well.....give me back those wasted seconds I spent reading that rubbish.


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  • #82
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Ah here, get up the garden. A dog stuck in a house for any length of time is cruel. Their instinct is to get up and have to good old sniff around their territory to see whats being going on there overnight. I would not confine a dog to a house under no circumstances.

    You did not say anything about confinement. Stop trying to twist people's words.


  • #83
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    You did not say anything about confinement. Stop trying to twist people's words.

    I know I didn't
    tumblr_inline_mfdsoqRLc71ry4qim.gif


  • #84
    Uberbeamerman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭Uberbeamerman


    Hi all, just said i'd give my own views on radio fences.
    I've two setters (hardly a sedentary breed!) and I've had a radio fence for the past 6 months.
    I agree that electric shocks are unpleasant and after watching my ape try urinate up against a cattle fence I think he'd be of the same opinion.

    I agree 100% with the concept of radio fences from a peace of mind point of view. Since we have had ours set up we can actually let our dogs outside unsupervised (say with a bone or something) and not be in constant fear of something happening (we've had two dogs poisoned already and the radio fence allows us keep the dogs within a safe, cctv monitored boundary).

    I agree with some of what is posted here already. It is slightly unpleasant for the dog but then again the dog is the equivalent of a child. Are we going to let the dog/child walk all over us and go I WANT A WALK/BICCIE or are we actually going to have a few ground rules. We set the fence up for their benefit as much as ours and I haven't looked back since.

    From a peace of mind point of view, since installing the fence life has been so much more pleasant for both the dogs and ourselves. They have quite a large boundary to play in where they come to no harm, and we have peace of mind.


  • #85
    whippet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭whippet


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Ah here, get up the garden. A dog stuck in a house for any length of time is cruel. Their instinct is to get up and have to good old sniff around their territory to see whats being going on there overnight. I would not confine a dog to a house under no circumstances.

    you are having a go at people who are expressing their opinions and yet you seem to have no problem with telling others that what they do is cruel.

    I have a 3/4 acre garden in a rural setting and went out and got proper fencing installed to keep my Lab from roaming, best investment ever, he also will prefer to spend more time in doors with human company .. my wife works from home and he will spend more time lying on the floor beside her in the office than out and about in the garden he had free access to .. why? because company is what most dogs love. I don't know if I read you incorrectly but you are saying that you have a shock collar and the dog is restricted to an hour of contact daily with either humans or any other dog he comes across on a daily walk? ... well that sounds like a lonely existence for any sort of natural pack animal.

    Why would anyone want a pet dog when all they want is an hours contact a day?


  • #86
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    Uberbeamerman wrote: »
    Hi all, just said i'd give my own views on radio fences.
    I've two setters (hardly a sedentary breed!) and I've had a radio fence for the past 6 months.
    I agree that electric shocks are unpleasant and after watching my ape try urinate up against a cattle fence I think he'd be of the same opinion.

    I agree 100% with the concept of radio fences from a peace of mind point of view. Since we have had ours set up we can actually let our dogs outside unsupervised (say with a bone or something) and not be in constant fear of something happening (we've had two dogs poisoned already and the radio fence allows us keep the dogs within a safe, cctv monitored boundary).

    I agree with some of what is posted here already. It is slightly unpleasant for the dog but then again the dog is the equivalent of a child. Are we going to let the dog/child walk all over us and go I WANT A WALK/BICCIE or are we actually going to have a few ground rules. We set the fence up for their benefit as much as ours and I haven't looked back since.

    From a peace of mind point of view, since installing the fence life has been so much more pleasant for both the dogs and ourselves. They have quite a large boundary to play in where they come to no harm, and we have peace of mind.

    Good post. Other that being able to fully enclose a large area, the radio fence is the the 2nd best dog containment strategy.


  • #87
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    almighty1 wrote: »
    I know I didn't


    You asked me if the dog was intelligent enough to choose, would they choose to be in the house. You didn't say choose to be confined in the house. But then if you are the sort to not only advocate radio fences, but also insist that a dog should not be indoors for any length of time, you're not the sort I will discuss this with further.


  • #88
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    whippet wrote: »
    Why would anyone want a pet dog when all they want is an hours contact a day?

    I agree.


  • #89
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Why are you being so sarky with me almighty1? I've been nothing but civil to you, I'd appreciate if you could reciprocate.

    The ethical alternative is quite simply an appropriate fence or wall. No aversion, no pain, just good old fashioned physical barriers.
    The welfare issues I have mentioned are listed in the link I gave some months back, not too many posts above. I don't want to go rehashing the debate that came before in this thread, so will leave it up to you to read that link.
    All I wanted to do today was question your comment about dogs not having an issue with radio fences, because people will read this thread for years to come, and I don't like comments such as that to go unchallenged because of that.


  • #90
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    I would also like to add that radio fences do not stop people from entering your property and simply taking your dog.

    Worth a mention and a think about for the people who do use it and fully value and love their pets.


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  • #91
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    You asked me if the dog was intelligent enough to choose, would they choose to be in the house. You didn't say choose to be confined in the house. But then if you are the sort to not only advocate radio fences, but also insist that a dog should not be indoors for any length of time, you're not the sort I will discuss this with further.

    Well I said 1 walk and 1 hour of contact. You should be able to deduce the rest yourself.


This discussion has been closed.
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