Dog Radio Fence

JustAThought

His view was that" that" was taking the " animal love in too far". That was what he was saying was disgusting. Not having a dog in the house. What you choose to do with your partner & dog is up to you in terms of closeness/boundaries. But it's not fair to infer that he said having a dog in the house was disgusting. Too many people bashing him /her ImO. There is a need to be fair.

DBB

JustAThought wrote: »

O and making a threat/comment & instructing someone not to reply to it - that's bullying too.

No, it's called moderating.
As you are fully aware because it's in the forum charter, if a mod makes an on-thread warning to a poster, said poster is not allowed to comment on said warning on-thread, any comments they might have are to be made by PM. To save you conferring with the charter, I reminded you of this rule in my warning post.
Because you chose to ignore this, you have been issued with a warning.
Once again I will remind you that if you think there is any bullying going on, you need to refer it to the appropriate channels, as it is a serious allegation to make. If you refer it via the appropriate channels, they will decide if you have any grounds for your concerns, and take the appropriate actions. If you think that I am bullying you as a mod, then please refer to the category mods for them to take whatever action they deem fit.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

ShaShaBear

JustAThought wrote: »

His view was that" that" was taking the " animal love in too far". That was what he was saying was disgusting. Not having a dog in the house. What you choose to do with your partner & dog is up to you in terms of closeness/boundaries. But it's not fair to infer that he said having a dog in the house was disgusting. Too many people bashing him /her ImO. There is a need to be fair.

He actually did say something about their being hair everywhere and having to hoover the house all day. Clearly we're just trying to figure out what is so disgusting about my dog sleeping in my bed. I've had much worse in it, I assure you!

almighty1

Cocolola wrote: »

Can I just ask, what is it that you find so "disgusting" about having a dog in around the house? What prompted you to get one if not to have it as part of your family?

Genuine question, not having a go,

Dog in the bed is disgusting. Hygeine, cleanliness etc... I perfectly understand a dog in the house. But in your bed is just plain wrong.....in my opinion

borderlinemeath

almighty1 wrote: »

Dog in the bed is disgusting. I perfectly understand a dog in the house. But in your bed is just plain wrong.....in my opinion

I don't have mine under the duvet, they would be too warm:D, but they always come up for a cuddle!





Once they don't have fleas or worms I don't see the problem. There's a huge amount of sweat and dead skin cells that come off humans so sharing a bed with anybody is probably disgusting to somebody who is a bit of a hygiene nazi. Each to their own.

almighty1

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I don't have mine under the duvet, they would be too warm:D, but they always come up for a cuddle!





Once they don't have fleas or worms I don't see the problem. There's a huge amount of sweat and dead skin cells that come off humans so sharing a bed with anybody is probably disgusting to somebody who is a bit of a hygiene nazi. Each to their own.

haha nice pic. I'm in no way a hygiene nazi. How often do you wash them?

borderlinemeath

Also studies have shown that children who grow up with pets in the house have a lesser chance of developing allergies/intolerances or asthma as their immune system is far stronger than those that live in a 99.9% bacteria free house. I blame the marketing companies for scaring consumers into thinking that we can't have germs or nasties in the house. I grew up in the 70s/80s and apart from a bout of scarlet fever and measles as a child, the worst I've had since is a dose of flu. I have a pretty good immune system that has been built up with living with pets and as a child rolling around in the garden with pets (and not been made come in and wash my hands countless times.)

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-08/health/ct-x-0808-dogs-cats-immune-system-20120808_1_dog-ownership-ear-infections-babies

http://healthyliving.msn.com/health-wellness/8-surprising-ways-pets-save-lives?pageart=2

http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/features/health-benefits-of-pets

ShaShaBear

Oh trust me, under the duvet is entirely his own doing. If it's good enough for daddy, it's good enough for Shadow.



We get greeted by this nightly, when one of us says the B.E.D word.

borderlinemeath

almighty1 wrote: »

haha nice pic. I'm in no way a hygiene nazi. How often do you wash them?

They swim in the sea at least 2/3 times a week. I haven't shampood them in about 3 months, before that it was maybe 6 months. Regularly checked for fleas/ticks though.

almighty1

DBB wrote: »

Firstly, it's a moot point. We are legally obliged, as farmers are, all of us as animal owners, to keep our animals safely contained on our own property, or under effectual control when off our own property.

Its not a moot point. You'll agree that most dogs want to get out further than their boundary. So confining or enclosing them in any space regardless of the type of boundary isn't 100% ethically moral. You don't know what way that confinement affects the dog.

almighty1

borderlinemeath wrote: »

They swim in the sea at least 2/3 times a week. I haven't shampood them in about 3 months, before that it was maybe 6 months. Regularly checked for fleas/ticks though.

Fair enough but you're still contending with dirty paws, dirty mouths and dog hair.

ShaShaBear

almighty1 wrote: »

Fair enough but you're still contending with dirty paws, dirty mouths and dog hair.

Dog hair is no dirtier than your own hair. Dogs keep their own paws very clean. Cleaner than some people's feet! As for dirty mouths, same again - no worse than a human's. Even if they brush twice daily and floss, there are still bacteria growing in there, and I'm sure it wouldn't stop you sharing a bed with a partner?

borderlinemeath

almighty1 wrote: »

Fair enough but you're still contending with dirty paws, dirty mouths and dog hair.

Minimal risk, remember, I have a great immune system! I've had maybe one cold in the past 3 years, I've never spent a night in hospital, never had an allergic reaction...you get the picture.:):)

If I had any worries about dog hair, I wouldn't have gotten a dog, let alone have two. I hoover at least once a day, maybe more. It's no big deal.

DBB

almighty1 wrote: »

Its not a moot point. You'll agree that most dogs want to get out further than their boundary. So confining or enclosing them in any space regardless of the type of boundary isn't 100% ethically moral. You don't know what way that confinement affects the dog.

No! I don't agree that "most" dogs want to get out beyond their boundary, my post on this issue said the exact opposite to that! I have no idea where you got this idea from! Very odd!
I know what way the confinement here affects my dogs, and all other dogs I know who live fulfilling lives! Their reaction is to sleep most of the day in their cozy beds, and mooching around "helping" me with stuff around the house! That's when they're not being walked, trained, groomed, played with etc.
Animal welfare is measurable. I'm pretty well trained in how to make those measurements. I think the dogs I describe above score very high on the "I'm happy" table!

almighty1

DBB wrote: »

No! I don't agree that "most" dogs want to get out beyond their boundary, my post on this issue said the exact opposite to that! I have no idea where you got this idea from! Very odd!

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

DBB wrote: »

I know what way the confinement here affects my dogs, and all other dogs I know who live fulfilling lives!

No you don't. As much as you know what the long term effect of a shock collar fence has on a dog compared to a dog that's restricted by a wall. You can't measure a dogs happiness from one to another, unless in extreme abandonment cases.

DBB wrote: »

Their reaction is to sleep most of the day in their cozy beds, and mooching around "helping" me with stuff around the house! That's when they're not being walked, trained, groomed, played with etc.

The same can be said for any given dog. Its the same for most of the people here.
If you use a shock collar you are a bad pet-owner.
People who let their dogs sleep in their bed with them bandy it around like its a badge of honour.
Frowned upon if you don't bring your dogs for at least 2 walks a day.
Its pitiful really. I bring my dog for a walk once a day, she is allowed in the kitchen rarely but spend most of her day in the back garden digging holes and bursting many footballs and messing around with the kids. Her walks consist of 1 hour along the road or 1 hour through fields and streams (which she loves running through) And just because I use a shock collar (where she has only been shocked twice) all the uber-loving-dog-is-my-life think they are better owners.

looking_around

Tranceypoo wrote: »

This is what I will never understand, I see so many dogs on my twice daily walks, just wandering around a huge garden with those collars on, cars outside the house so clearly people are in, what's the point of having a dog? I have 2 medium/large dogs who get walked twice a day and when the weather is remotely warm/sunny I have the patio doors open and they can be inside or outside as they wish, but if the doors are closed they are inside the house, if/when we go out they're inside the house, they're perfectly happy, there's no way either of them would stay outside on their own. There seems to be a real attitude in this country that people are entitled, almost obliged, to have a dog, yet they use such cruel outdated methods of welfare it just saddens and confuses me and the amount of people who still think dogs belong outside, I feel sorry for them, they're missing out on all the benefits you get from sharing a home with your pet.

We have 2 large dogs that prefer stay putside then in. One of them was a rescue(severely mistreated& barely fed) and just doesn't settle when inside. He whinges and paws at the door and does not stop walking around. We never planned on keeping him but the size of him has made him difficult to rehome. So yeah, the dogs are out 24/7.
We do spend quite a bit of time outside with them though.

On the fence topic, no one is gonna take these big dogs. I have a small one who also spends a large amount of time outside and he runs from anyone who comes near unless I pick him and show him they're ok. So, I'm confident no one is gonna run off with him either.
All dogs understand the beeps.
The small one knows it safe when he has a lead on and isn't worried or when the beep collar is taken off.(and yes, it's only set to beeps now )

I'm not saying aversion training is the ONLY way to train, but it certainly helps and is much much cheaper than trying to build fencing.(Which some dogs escape anyway. My mom has a large sheepdog that has no problems making it over 9ft walls!

But the radio fence is something that some of ye will never agree on and say it's not so bad. It's not like the dogs are being beaten/ignored/starved/totured. The only thing they're afraid of is the radio collars. And not in a shivering running away fear but in a, moving head away and showing us they don't want the collar. (But of course they don't, they want to go running across the road.)

almighty1

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Your dog will not be able to instinctively roam and survey their area. It will be a nervous wreck waiting to get a shock.

Also your dog is only 4 months old. It's still learning. It WILL become a nervous wreck if you subject it to this at such a young and impressionable age. Dogs that are confused/nervous/anxious can turn aggressive if they cannot figure out what is hurting them. If you insist on getting a radio fence be prepared to see a happy confident puppy change into a dog with a lot of behavioural issues.

Well alot of "facts" here from this poster that proved to be hyperbole.

borderlinemeath

almighty1 wrote: »

Well alot of "facts" here from this poster that proved to be hyperbole.

Your dog is only a year old, still a puppy. All it takes is one bad shock, one attempt to get out and too afraid to return to frighten her into submission. That's how aversion works. Your not getting the desired behaviour because she wants to but because she's afraid to.

Seriously though, have you read any of the posts that disagree with using radio fences and taken any points on board? Because now you just seem to be in a "I was right and you were wrong" frame of mind. I really don't think you get it.

ShaShaBear

looking_around wrote: »

On the fence topic, no one is gonna take these big dogs.

I'm sure there are many people who thought the same thing and are now minus a dog. If people can hop a fence and break into a boarding kennel to steal two dogs, I'm sure they can take your's, or anyone else's.

Most of us have no problem with a dog being outside if they prefer it. As you said yourself you spend quite a bit of time outside with your dog, which is perfectly fine if it would rather not be inside. But leaving a dog outside for extended periods of time without supervision can cause problems. Dogs are stolen, despite what people may think they have done to prevent it. Dogs do break through radio fences, and they do jump over walls. They do run out on the road after rabbits and they do follow people walking their dogs out of the garden and up the street.
What we have been saying about the preferred method of keeping your dog under control, like the law demands, is all irrelevant if you are not monitoring your dog. If it is outside all of the time, be it surrounded by sheep, a 20 foot wall or an electric fence, it will start to look for a way out. If the dog is receiving adequate exercise, food and attention, they usually don't feel the need to try and escape or go exploring. But it always helps to watch your dog, just in case. All creatures, from dogs to humans, will more than likely attempt to get up to some sort of mischief when no one is watching. As dog owners, it is our duty to make sure that mischief is nipped in the bud before someone gets hurt.

almighty1

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Your dog is only a year old, still a puppy. All it takes is one bad shock, one attempt to get out and too afraid to return to frighten her into submission. That's how aversion works. Your not getting the desired behaviour because she wants to but because she's afraid to.

Seriously though, have you read any of the posts that disagree with using radio fences and taken any points on board? Because now you just seem to be in a "I was right and you were wrong" frame of mind. I really don't think you get it.

I have read the posts. These are just opinions who in the majority of cases have never even owned a shock collar.
And your stated facts in the quoted post above have been refuted. That is a fact.

ShaShaBear

almighty1 wrote: »

I have read the posts. These are just opinions who in the majority of cases have never even owned a shock collar.
And your stated facts in the quoted post above have been refuted. That is a fact.

I think you'll find quite a few people who give advice here actually have owned and used a shock collar. Someone here on boards, I'm not sure who, had an instance where the dog managed to get themselves stuck by accident which resulted in repeated shocks which left the dog traumatised. I believe another poster, maybe even the same one, ended up with a similar experience when the collar malfunctioned (as all electronics are likely to do) and shocked the dog for no reason repeatedly. Then there are many whos fence and collar simply stopped working for about 15 seconds, resulting in them having to scrape their poor dogs off the side of a road, or lifted out of the back of a truck after being shot by a farmer.

Then there are those who read all of these posts and decided a wall would be safer

borderlinemeath

almighty1 wrote: »

I have read the posts. These are just opinions who in the majority of cases have never even owned a shock collar.
And your stated facts in the quoted post above have been refuted. That is a fact.

Your 'facts' are just your opinions. Going by your posts in this thread I doubt you would even know if your dog was unhappy or was exhibiting behavioural issues, you seem to think your dog is happy digging holes and ripping up footballs. To me that sounds like the dog is completely understimulated and is looking for an outlet. In my opinion of course.

But sure hey, what would I know, I bring my dog to bed like it's a badge of honour.:rolleyes:

DBB

Okay folks, I think this thread has well run its course, with arguments going in circles and, it has to be said, deliberate argumentativeness and flaming going on.
I think now would be a good time to close it.
Thanks,
DBB