stay at home mother.

mariaalice · 19-10-2012 12:22pm #1

The whole garda thread got me thinking about this, has being able ot afford to stay at home and look after you children become a mark of wealth in our society, I am talking about women in professional employment who choose not to go back to paid employment or who take a year off after the maternity leave is up.

Another thing I have noticed is the amount of 4 children family's seem to be increasing when my first child was born 4 children families were rare unless the family were farmers.

seamus · 19-10-2012 12:29pm

mariaalice wrote: »

The whole garda thread got me thinking about this, has being able ot afford to stay at home and look after you children become a mark of wealth in our society, I am talking about women in professional employment who choose not to go back to paid employment or who take a year off after the maternity leave is up.

Another thing I have noticed is the amount of 4 children family's seem to be increasing when my first child was born 4 children families were rare unless the family were farmers.

In reality the two big factors are mortgage and child care costs. You can raise a whole family on a modest single wage of 30k, but if you have a big mortgage taking up half of that, then you won't be able to survive.
Likewise with child care that's effectively a second mortgage, so many couples have no option except to work two jobs.

You're seeing bigger families now because the balance is starting to tip - it's working out economically more viable to have one wage and one carer rather than paying €1.5k+ per month on a creche for two kids.

El Guapo! · 19-10-2012 12:31pm

mariaalice wrote: »

.... 4 children families were rare unless the family were farmers.

Lol wut??

flutterflye · 19-10-2012 12:31pm

I'm a stay at home mother of 3 kids for the time being, but it's because I can't afford to work!
Not the other way around!

bbam · 19-10-2012 12:33pm

My Oh is loosing money every week going to work.. Between creche, childcare and travel.
however she's holding her position and hopefully when the creche fees are gone and childcare is less we'll actually have a return...

smash · 19-10-2012 12:34pm

Child care costs in this country are a joke. Staying at home isn't a sign of wealth in my opinion. Quite the opposite.

UCDVet · 19-10-2012 12:42pm

It's pretty sad that we have a system that pays people more to stay home than to go to work, IMHO.

mariaalice · 19-10-2012 12:43pm

The cost of child care is a bit issue but it more than that, the 4 children families seem to be adopting a certain life style it usuayl consists of big involvement in parish or community, GAA,or Rugby, music lessons,scouts.... sending the children to a galescoil if there is one near a life style based around family life and the thing is offend the parents don't come from a back ground like that.

Its weird Irish society seem to be becoming even more divided that ever it was.

El Guapo! · 19-10-2012 12:52pm

mariaalice wrote: »

The cost of child care is a bit issue but it more than that, the 4 children families seem to be adopting a certain life style it usuayl consists of big involvement in parish or community, GAA,or Rugby, music lessons,scouts.... sending the children to a galescoil if there is one near a life style based around family life and the thing is offend the parents don't come from a back ground like that.

Its weird Irish society seem to be becoming even more divided that ever it was.

I can't really make sense of your post.
What's your point??

HeyThereDeliah · 19-10-2012 12:58pm

I remember when parents and other family members helped each other out with the child care but then all these fancy crèches creeped in and the waiting was so long parents were putting down the kids names before they were even born.

It's parents own fault child care costs got out of control, it was a status thing having the kids in a fancy crèche rather than with family or a neighbour.

jam_mac_jam · 19-10-2012 1:04pm

A lot of people have to give up work because the difference is not worth it when you have two or three due to child care.

I don't think its a mark of wealth either in some cases people make a lot of sacrifises to do this. On the other hand a lot of women don't want to stay home. I would rather work, no matter how much he earned!

eviltwin · 19-10-2012 1:06pm

Any stay at home parent I know isn't doing it through choice, its mostly because they were made redundant and they certainly aren't rich or even comfortable. They are struggling just like everyone else.

Tasden · 19-10-2012 1:09pm

I would have thought staying at home was a sign that there wasn't enough money for childcare. And that the person staying at home has the patience of a saint! I work two jobs in order to cover childcare costs, but not a hope in hell id rather be a stay at home mother, i have a huge amount of respect for people who do.

anncoates · 19-10-2012 1:13pm

I doubt the really wealthy are at sitting at home changing nappies.

I think, as said, the price of child care has finally tipped a lot of low to medium earners into living on one wage until the kids go to school.

Lucyfur · 19-10-2012 1:18pm

Are you going to have more kids/give away some kids so you can be in the 4 kid cool gang too?

mariaalice · 19-10-2012 1:25pm

My point is I know someone who takes all the children to mass even though they are agnostic and they do it because they want to the children involved in the parish and they feel mass is good for the children, so they are going to mass as a lifestyle choice. The same person would not cosider a fee paying school but they are sending the children to a galesscoil not because of any interest in the Irish language but because they know its the school with best education and the highest trans fare to third level in the area thy live.

All their Friends are the same and to me its something different from when my children were small. I realise now that we were maybe the first generating to go back to paid work after you had a child, It was beginning to be the norm and women were only delighted to get the chance to go back to work,nobody had ever heard of the word lifestyle applied to something like family.

ash23 · 19-10-2012 1:29pm

I think when the kids are small, staying at home often works because it doesn't pay both parents to work.

However, I think once all kids are in school, it is then that staying at home becomes more a sign of wealth. Because once in school childcare costs decrease and so, one parent choosing to remain at home becomes a cost as opposed to making financial sense.

SBWife · 19-10-2012 1:30pm

Apart from a few decades in the 20th centuary wives and mothers not working has in western societies been only the preserve of the very wealthy.

eviltwin · 19-10-2012 1:30pm

Some people just want to stay at home with their kids and there is nothing wrong with that. Different strokes etc etc. I am sure they don't make that choice based on keeping up with the Jones.

HeyThereDeliah · 19-10-2012 1:31pm

mariaalice wrote: »

My point is I know someone who takes all the children to mass even though they are agnostic and they do it because they want to the children involved in the parish and they feel mass is good for the children, so they are going to mass as a lifestyle choice. The same person would not cosider a fee paying school but they are sending the children to a galesscoil not because of any interest in the Irish language but because they know its the school with best education and the highest trans fare to third level in the area thy live.

All their Friends are the same and to me its something different from when my children were small. I realise now that we were maybe the first generating to go back to paid work after you had a child, It was beginning to be the norm and women were only delighted to get the chance to go back to work,nobody had ever heard of the word lifestyle applied to something like family.

I'm not sure what it is you are trying to say but these type of parents have always existed here its not a new thing.

Dravokivich · 19-10-2012 1:32pm

mariaalice wrote: »

The cost of child care is a bit issue but it more than that, the 4 children families seem to be adopting a certain life style it usuayl consists of big involvement in parish or community, GAA,or Rugby, music lessons,scouts.... sending the children to a galescoil if there is one near a life style based around family life and the thing is offend the parents don't come from a back ground like that.

Its weird Irish society seem to be becoming even more divided that ever it was.

What you perceive as stereotypes in your posts here are crazy. Have you actually thought about them, or are you just looking to throw out any kind of mundane crap your fingers can tap up?

I'm the first of 5. Just went 28 in August. Youngest just went 19 in September. We grew up in Clondalkin. Never had an interest in the GAA, didn't really get too involved in local community stuff either. Other than hanging around with the other kids my way. My dad stayed at home, because my mother was able to get a better wage. But it was far from a sign of wealth. Ours was a matter of need. Someone needed to stay home.

As things are now, I think its insane the way both parents will need to work to support mortgage and childcare. It should be possible to run and support a house on one wage. Its extremely fúcking hard though.

griffdaddy · 19-10-2012 1:37pm

Whatever happened to private childcare where a woman on the road who didn't work would mind the kids after school along with their own kids or else during the day if they were younger and get paid cash for it? Does this just not happen anymore or something?

Shivers26 · 19-10-2012 1:38pm

I know for us we cannot afford to have another child because we can't afford either for one of us to be out of work or the additional creche fees. We have one child in creche but just for after school care and that costs €500 per month. If we were to have a new baby creche fees between the 2 of them would be €1300 per month.

The annoying this is that the HSE have childcare facilities and my sister, who was on social welfare at the time, was able to put her child into full time childcare (9am - 4.30pm) for €50 per week while she sat at home!! That used to seriously boil my p1ss. Cheaper childcare like that would make a phenomenal difference to the life of someone working but instead the cheap places are given to people on SW!

I don't think I would like to be a stay at home mother anyway because I really do like my job but I do wish childcare was cheaper. Currently we couldn't afford to survive on just one wage and there would be no need for one of us to be at home anyway as both kids are in school.

Shivers26 · 19-10-2012 1:40pm

griffdaddy wrote: »

Whatever happened to private childcare where a woman on the road who didn't work would mind the kids after school along with their own kids or else during the day if they were younger and get paid cash for it? Does this just not happen anymore or something?

Many private childminders charge up to €50 per day for one child so I don't think this is as it once was!
A friend of my sisters was paying her childminder €80 per day for 2 children for 4 days per week. That's a lot of money to be paying out.

HeyThereDeliah · 19-10-2012 1:46pm

Shivers26 wrote: »

I know for us we cannot afford to have another child because we can't afford either for one of us to be out of work or the additional creche fees. We have one child in creche but just for after school care and that costs €500 per month. If we were to have a new baby creche fees between the 2 of them would be €1300 per month.

This is why child care is so expensive because people pay outrageous money for a crèche, at the end of the day people are paying because they can afford it and they want to pay.

ash23 · 19-10-2012 1:48pm

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

This is why child care is so expensive because people pay outrageous money for a crèche, at the end of the day people are paying because they can afford it and they want to pay.

This made me

I pay the same for a childminder as I did for creche (afterschool rates).

I never wanted to fork out huge amounts for a creche but living in an area where I knew nobody, I wasn't willing to chance a childminder. Plus I didn't see a vast difference in the prices.

SBWife · 19-10-2012 1:53pm

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

This is why child care is so expensive because people pay outrageous money for a crèche, at the end of the day people are paying because they can afford it and they want to pay.

Childcare is extremely expensive in part because of regulations including ratios of 1 carer for every 3 children under a year, these carers must be vetted and trained. Historically building costs were high, heating and electricity still are, insurance is very expensive, and there is a high administrative burden in the business as well.

HeyThereDeliah · 19-10-2012 1:56pm

ash23 wrote: »

This made me

I pay the same for a childminder as I did for creche (afterschool rates).

I never wanted to fork out huge amounts for a creche but living in an area where I knew nobody, I wasn't willing to chance a childminder. Plus I didn't see a vast difference in the prices.

What are you paying?

Did you know the people in the crèche ?

I know people who were paying silly amounts of money to crèches just to keep up with the jones.

I'm not sure kids get the same level of attention in crèches as they get with a childminder IMO.

ash23 · 19-10-2012 2:01pm

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

What are you paying?

Did you know the people in the crèche ?

I know people who were paying silly amounts of money to crèches just to keep up with the jones.

I'm not sure kids get the same level of attention in crèches as they get with a childminder IMO.

I knew of the person who managed the creche (recommended to me by a co-worker) and I went to view it. With people in and out all day, qualified staff, open and visible rooms, an open door policy and cctv, I was more comfortable with the creche.

I assure you my childcare choice had nothing to do with prestige and more to do with making the best choice for my own child.

I can't fault the level of attention given in the creche. She gets less with the childminder now because it's a mad house with all the kids, but she's a lot older so it doesn't bother me.

mariaalice · 19-10-2012 2:02pm

If you can afford to stay at home with your children and still maintaining the same lifestyle you alway had then you husband/wife/partner must be very very well paid and you are well off as well as Lucky in the society we inhabit.

I have just thought of something maybe if you cant afford or cant go back to work maybe its inevitable that some women ( or men ) will start to see family life/mothering as their new careerer and maybe that account for some of the things I am seeing.

keithclancy · 19-10-2012 2:05pm

How about a Job Share ?

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/emire/IRELAND/JOBSHARING-IR.htm

If you could find single mother with similar skills as yourself close enough to you and when theres a job advertised just apply together.

You could outline the benefits:

1. They get a rested and healthy employee, since their not run ragged trying to look after kids/don't get enough sleep.

2. Much less likely to have sick days as one can cover for the other.

3. Close communication between yourself and the other mother so no issues with handover of work.

Benefits for you:

1. You don't pay high childcare costs.

2. Your kid gets a friend to spend time with.

3. You get a boost in self confidence, staying at home all the time is pretty hard.

For hours on a 5 day week you could do 3 one week and 2 the next and vice versa.

kylith · 19-10-2012 2:07pm

Having one parent stay home to mind the kids means that the job they would have been taking is now free for someone else. If one parent from each family stayed at home there would be more jobs for single people, or for people from families were both parents are out of work.

The cost of childcare in this country is such that many mothers or fathers are working solely to pay childcare costs so that they can go to work. Staying at home would probably result in a net increase in income, and would free a job for someone who needs it more. Plus the children would have the benefit of being raised by their parent, rather than by a creche, which would hopefully lead to a reduction in the number of spoiled little darlings.

ceadaoin. · 19-10-2012 2:08pm

mariaalice wrote: »

My point is I know someone who takes all the children to mass even though they are agnostic and they do it because they want to the children involved in the parish and they feel mass is good for the children, so they are going to mass as a lifestyle choice. The same person would not cosider a fee paying school but they are sending the children to a galesscoil not because of any interest in the Irish language but because they know its the school with best education and the highest trans fare to third level in the area thy live.

I'm not sure what this bit has to do with stay at home mothers?

I decided not to go back to work after my maternity leave had finished. Plus we moved back to Ireland from the UK so it would have meant me finding a new job anyway. We are fortunate in that money isn't an issue but personally I felt I would rather be there with my child for the first year or two and I'm glad I had the option to do so. Not a 'lifestyle' choice, just what I felt suited me and my child.

keithclancy · 19-10-2012 2:10pm

kylith wrote: »

The cost of childcare in this country is such that many mothers or fathers are working solely to pay childcare costs so that they can go to work. Staying at home would probably result in a net increase in income, and would free a job for someone who needs it more. Plus the children would have the benefit of being raised by their parent, rather than by a creche, which would hopefully lead to a reduction in the number of spoiled little darlings.

As long as you have lots of social activities and things to do then thats great.

Sometimes though, a mum can go stark raving bonkers from being at home all the time and only having an infant to talk to.

MagicSean · 19-10-2012 2:15pm

mariaalice wrote: »

The whole garda thread got me thinking about this, has being able ot afford to stay at home and look after you children become a mark of wealth in our society, I am talking about women in professional employment who choose not to go back to paid employment or who take a year off after the maternity leave is up.

Another thing I have noticed is the amount of 4 children family's seem to be increasing when my first child was born 4 children families were rare unless the family were farmers.

No it's not a mark of wealth. It's actually a constitutional right for a woman to to be a homemaker without her financial situation requiring her to work.

kylith · 19-10-2012 2:24pm

keithclancy wrote: »

As long as you have lots of social activities and things to do then thats great.

Sometimes though, a mum can go stark raving bonkers from being at home all the time and only having an infant to talk to.

I can believe that. Coffee mornings with other mums would be one way of doing it, or arranging a baby minding rota with a friend so that you can each have a day or two off per week.

Rubberlegs · 19-10-2012 2:27pm

I'm a stay at home mother of a 9 month old. The older 2 are in school and college. I stay at home mostly because I am not going out to work so all my wage can go on creche fees. I just don't see the sense in that at all. My OH is not on brilliant wages, so I'd have to be making very good money for us to afford childcare. I don't have the money for luxuries, and it's damn hard to be the one at home some days, especially when your partner is on shift work. Maybe I'm sappy here but I'd rather go without material things than miss all the "firsts" when they are a baby:o. However I do understand if there is a massive mortgage etc both parents need to work. As someone else said, different strokes. But until the little one is in playschool, I can't afford to go out and work, it simply wouldn't pay me..

ash23 · 19-10-2012 3:09pm

kylith wrote: »

Having one parent stay home to mind the kids means that the job they would have been taking is now free for someone else. If one parent from each family stayed at home there would be more jobs for single people, or for people from families were both parents are out of work.

The cost of childcare in this country is such that many mothers or fathers are working solely to pay childcare costs so that they can go to work. Staying at home would probably result in a net increase in income, and would free a job for someone who needs it more. Plus the children would have the benefit of being raised by their parent, rather than by a creche, which would hopefully lead to a reduction in the number of spoiled little darlings.

Mmmm, because no stay at home parent ever had a spoiled child :rolleyes:

kylith · 19-10-2012 3:17pm

ash23 wrote: »

Mmmm, because no stay at home parent ever had a spoiled child :rolleyes:

I said reduction, not elimination. Sure, we all know stay-at-home parents with spoilt kids, but, in my experince, a lot of kids with behavioural problems come from a family where both parents work and the kid is in creche.

The people in the creche don't give much of a monkeys for anything except having a quiet life (and not accidentally killing any kids), therefore they are unlikely to properly discipline the child. The parents, and again - not all parents are like this (hopefully the majority aren't like this), collect the child after work, spending approx 2 hours with the kids before bed time. Because they spend so little time with their kids they feel guilty and are likely to overdo the presents and underdo the discipline. Result: entitled and spoiled little brats who have never heard the words 'no' or 'don't' .

Again: not all parents, and not all kids are like this, but I saw it in the gym I used to work in (it had a creche on the premises), especially the 'give them whatever shuts them up' attitude of some of the staff.

ash23 · 19-10-2012 3:21pm

Well, you've had a very different experience to creches than I have had so. Quite unfair to tar all creches and their staff with your limited experience of a creche in a gym.

kylith · 19-10-2012 3:22pm

ash23 wrote: »

Well, you've had a very different experience to creches than I have had so. Quite unfair to tar all creches and their staff with your limited experience of a creche in a gym.

Well, I can only speak from my own experience.

westendgirlie · 19-10-2012 3:24pm

I think you should report that creche kylith. Duty of Care and all that.....

smash · 19-10-2012 3:25pm

kylith wrote: »

Having one parent stay home to mind the kids means that the job they would have been taking is now free for someone else. If one parent from each family stayed at home there would be more jobs for single people, or for people from families were both parents are out of work.

The cost of childcare in this country is such that many mothers or fathers are working solely to pay childcare costs so that they can go to work. Staying at home would probably result in a net increase in income, and would free a job for someone who needs it more. Plus the children would have the benefit of being raised by their parent, rather than by a creche, which would hopefully lead to a reduction in the number of spoiled little darlings.

Really, everything you've just said is silly.

Stay at home and let other people do you job... they need it more... please :rolleyes:

ash23 · 19-10-2012 3:25pm

kylith wrote: »

Well, I can only speak from my own experience.

Yes but you can do so without generalising. One crappy creche with crappy staff doesn't mean all creches and all staff are the same.

kylith · 19-10-2012 3:30pm

westendgirlie wrote: »

I think you should report that creche kylith. Duty of Care and all that.....

Report them for what? They're job is to mind the children during the day, not to rear them. Teaching right from wrong and raising them to be upstanding members of the community is the parent's responsibility, not that of a creche worker who has a dozen other kids to look after too.

smash wrote: »

Really, everything you've just said is silly.

Stay at home and let other people do you job... they need it more... please :rolleyes:

Unfortunately I don't have a job. However, if my earlier suggestion that those who are working solely to pay for childcare give up were taken up then I, and others in my position, would probably stand a much better chance of getting one.

ash23 · 19-10-2012 3:32pm

kylith wrote: »

Report them for what? They're job is to mind the children during the day, not to rear them. Teaching right from wrong and raising them to be upstanding members of the community is the parent's responsibility, not that of a creche worker who has a dozen other kids to look after too.

Actually you're wrong there. Of course a creches job is to make sure the child behaves and adheres to the rules in the creche. Otherwise they'd all be like wild animals.

Unfortunately I don't have a job. However, if my earlier suggestion that those who are working solely to pay for childcare give up were taken up then I, and others in my position, would probably stand a much better chance of getting one.

And what when the turning point came and they weren't working solely to pay childcare? Would you give the job back to them?

kodoherty93 · 19-10-2012 3:36pm

Irish families appear to be getting larger these days again. My class in school was mainly 1 or 2 siblings(im 19). But where I live at the moment in a wealthy estate in Glasnevin(There is people with money on the northside of Dublin). Everyone appears to have 3 children minimum and out of a road with 8 houses with children. There is 5 with 3 Children and 3 with 4 children with a new child born at least every year.

When you have 3/4 child your better off staying at home than paying ridiculous childcare cost

kylith · 19-10-2012 3:40pm

ash23 wrote: »

Actually you're wrong there. Of course a creches job is to make sure the child behaves and adheres to the rules in the creche. Otherwise they'd all be like wild animals.

Where did I say they let them run riot? I said that the creche workers want a quiet life; given the choice between a) giving him the toy so he'll stop screaming or b) putting up with a tantrum that will disrupt the 15 or so other kids in the creche what would you do?

ash23 wrote: »

And what when the turning point came and they weren't working solely to pay childcare? Would you give the job back to them?

Well, by that stage other people would have left the workforce, possibly even me, to raise their own families, thereby opening more jobs to people either entering the workforce for the first time, or re-entering after their kids are in school.

pinkpetal · 19-10-2012 3:44pm

griffdaddy wrote: »

Whatever happened to private childcare where a woman on the road who didn't work would mind the kids after school along with their own kids or else during the day if they were younger and get paid cash for it? Does this just not happen anymore or something?

Lots of couples moved away from family and friends in during the boom,kinda puts a stop to leaving your kids with the neighbours.

smash · 19-10-2012 3:47pm

kylith wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't have a job. However, if my earlier suggestion that those who are working solely to pay for childcare give up were taken up then I, and others in my position, would probably stand a much better chance of getting one.

You want people who have worked hard for their positions to try and raise their families better to just give it up because someone who's single without those responsibilities in their life can't get work?

Sure you have 2 kidneys too, might as well donate one!

ash23 · 19-10-2012 3:48pm

I'm guessing you don't know about kids? Saying "give him the toy to shut him up" when there are 15 kids in the room.....what if 5 of them want the same toy? Of course the creche has to have rules and teach manners and sharing etc etc. It's fairly obvious that you can't give 15 kids their own way without them killing each other over something.

So parents should give up work to stay at home? Like the civil service way back when you had to leave your job because you got married?
Also, after being out of the workforce for 5 to 10 years (depending on how many kids you have) you think it'd be handy to just stroll back into the workplace? Why should anyone who worked hard to build a career pack it in just because they have kids? There is a big career sacrifice made to become a stay at home parent and there is always the risk that you won't get back in.
Nobody should have to take that risk to make way for other people just because jobs are scarce now.

stay at home mother.

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