HEC: Llanelli Scarlets V Leinster, Parc y Scarlets Sat 20th Oct 13:35 Sky Sports 1

irishbucsfan

Browne has been pretty poor? At what exactly?

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Browne has been pretty poor? At what exactly?

I thought he was pretty anonymous last week tbh. Not as physically imposing as he was in the early part of last year

As I've stressed before I think he's a pretty limited player anyway

irishbucsfan

Right. Well he just simply isn't a poor player. I'd have to question what you've been watching, because you certainly can't have been watching him since he signed for us!

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right. Well he just simply isn't a poor player. I'd have to question what you've been watching, because you certainly can't have been watching him since he signed for us!

It's only my opinion. I changed the word "poor" to "limited" in my OP too.

He's capable of being physically enforcing, and from what I saw of him last year he did it more effectively than the three games I've seen him play this season. but compared to other locks of that nature in other provinces and clubs in the competition I don't think he's anything above average.

The fact that he starts for Leinster kind of enforces the problems in the depth they have in that position

irishbucsfan

You're entitled to your opinion of course. He is limited perhaps but what he does he does relentlessly and effectively. Everything we need given the breadth of strength across the rest of our pack.

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion of course. He is limited perhaps but what he does he does relentlessly and effectively. Everything we need given the breadth of strength across the rest of our pack.

Wouldn't question how relentless he is, for such a big guy he has an incredible engine. The effectiveness, this year in particular, is what I would disagree on.

But hey, we'll agree to disagree on this!

desertcircus

Fishooks12 wrote: »

What a lol

Even more so considering the two players you alluded to were not directly keeping Toner out of the side because they're both TH locks

I'll grant that the idea of Hines being considerably better than O'Connell is a bit much (they're probably pretty similar in terms of quality), but it's just not even slightly odd to argue that Thorn is a good deal better than O'Connell. Thorn has won the Super Rugby title, the World Cup, the Tri-Nations and the Heineken Cup, and that's before you consider the fact that he spent a solid TEN YEARS playing league instead - where he won multiple NRL and Stage of Origin titles. He has sixty caps for the All Blacks despite not even playing professional union until he was 25 years old. He came to Leinster after winning the World Cup and getting restless in the off-season, and he's going back to New Zealand in 2013 to play for the Highlanders. By any reasonable metric, he's a superior player.

Fishooks12

desertcircus wrote: »

I'll grant that the idea of Hines being considerably better than O'Connell is a bit much (they're probably pretty similar in terms of quality), but it's just not even slightly odd to argue that Thorn is a good deal better than O'Connell. Thorn has won the Super Rugby title, the World Cup, the Tri-Nations and the Heineken Cup, and that's before you consider the fact that he spent a solid TEN YEARS playing league instead - where he won multiple NRL and Stage of Origin titles. He has sixty caps for the All Blacks despite not even playing professional union until he was 25 years old. He came to Leinster after winning the World Cup and getting restless in the off-season, and he's going back to New Zealand in 2013 to play for the Highlanders. By any reasonable metric, he's a superior player.

Ya Thorn is a freak alright. But even comparing two players that offer such uniquely different roles is daft. Not to mention that the comparison only arose out of a poster who constantly digs at everything Munster

A Thorn/POC combo at their peaks would have been some sight. They would have complimented each other very well. Much in the same way that Thorn and Cullen did last year

Anyway this is all off topic seeing as we're discussing two players who won't be playing tomorrow !

P_1

Madigan at 15 is a slight concern though

Cpt_Blackbeard

desertcircus wrote: »

I'll grant that the idea of Hines being considerably better than O'Connell is a bit much (they're probably pretty similar in terms of quality), but it's just not even slightly odd to argue that Thorn is a good deal better than O'Connell. Thorn has won the Super Rugby title, the World Cup, the Tri-Nations and the Heineken Cup, and that's before you consider the fact that he spent a solid TEN YEARS playing league instead - where he won multiple NRL and Stage of Origin titles. He has sixty caps for the All Blacks despite not even playing professional union until he was 25 years old. He came to Leinster after winning the World Cup and getting restless in the off-season, and he's going back to New Zealand in 2013 to play for the Highlanders. By any reasonable metric, he's a superior player.

Thorn's achievements with an oval shaped ball will likely never be surpassed, but I's put himself and POC on levelish ground. Thorn was vying with Bakkies to be the best 4 in the world, POC was vying with Matfield to be the best 5 around. Thorn has probably been a better 4 than POC a 5, but there isn't a huge deal in it.

Hines is and never has been near POC's level. You're comparing a Lion's tour captain with someone who has never played a Lions test. He'd be a good deal behind DOC (4 Lions tests) as a player if you compare them at their pomp too.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Hines is and never has been near POC's level. You're comparing a Lion's tour captain with someone who has never played a Lions test. He'd be a good deal behind DOC (4 Lions tests) as a player if you compare them at their pomp too.

I'll respectfully disagree. I think POC has been the better player overall undoubtedly but Hines has been superior over the past 3 years clearly enough, in my opinion. He would be rated higher by many more if it wasn't for circumstance and injury. He fell out with some of the brass in the SRU which led to his being dropped and premature retirement in 2005. He also had a shocking time with injury for long stretches of his career until he went to France when he was off the radar to many. Throw in the fact that he didn't become a full time rugby player until he was 23 and it's easy to see how some didn't realise how good he was until the last few years.

shuffol

I think POC would be far higher regarded if he didnt spend so much of his career focusing on something he's not particularly good at, more the fault of his coaches than him though.

ssaye

Match thread gone way off topic, BOD looking to deny them playing their game, I see JS kicking key

.ak

Indeed. Back on topic everyone.

durkadurka

So how do we stop them getting the ball to their outside backs?

irishbucsfan

durkadurka wrote: »

So how do we stop them getting the ball to their outside backs?

Make them play real rugby!

.ak

durkadurka wrote: »

So how do we stop them getting the ball to their outside backs?

Backrow need to earn their salt.

GerM

durkadurka wrote: »

So how do we stop them getting the ball to their outside backs?

Well, given that their most dangerous backs all end up popping up in midfield, we'll have to cut them off at the breakdown and do damage there. Williams and North will both hit the shoulder of Priestland looking to get on the ball. Physicality at the breakdown will be key. Hit the rucks hard, hit them low, get in over the ball and kill it. Jennings will be the most important man in the Leinster pack. If he can influence proceedings, Leinster will have some joy. If we slow their ball, Sexton and BOD can get a march on their attack and shut them down before they get up a head of steam but Darce will have to be on his toes. I can see North coming in off to take a pop at him off set piece early on.

Set piece will be a big factor too. I think Leinster will be on top in the scrum but will need to tighten up their performance from touch. Kev McLaughlin and Heaslip will have their jumping boots on tomorrow, I suspect. Give Cronin targets and ensure they get people in the air uncontested as Scarlets track Cullen.

The Sexont/Priestland battle will be vital too. Given their respective seasons, you'd have to say advantage to Leinster there.

Essentially, it's the same thing every time. Beat them up front, we beat them on the score board.

durkadurka

Font of wisdom and analysis as ever germ.

Tox56

There are few players in our squad better at the breakdown than Strauss, and he's sitting on the bench. I have to assume it's an injury or he's just knackered, surely that couldn't be a tactical decision.

durkadurka

Yeah Cronin is grand off the bench in a big game when he can get a bit of space to run, but Strauss is miles ahead of him. And if strauss's throwing is the problem, then Cronin isn't the solution.

yimrsg

Just had a look at the Scarlets forwards, all of their pack from 4-8 are at least 6'4". Hopefully all that size might put them at a disadvantage in the breakdown.

I think choosing Cronin over Strauss is to give us another ball carrier. We'll certainly miss Strauss at the breakdown but with SOB out and Healy not up to 100% we're a little bit light on ball carriers. Against Exeter we didn't really break through their defensive line (Ross excluded) and Cronin has that ability to punch holes. Hope to see runners on his shoulder expecting a half break. If we get in behind teams we'll open them up, just need to start creating those instances.

GerM

Wet and dull in the Llanelli area this morning. Scrum them into the ground, folks. When you're done, scrum them again.

irishbucsfan

I'm nearly there. This is beer and scrums weather as opposed to cider and namby pamby backs weather.

Edit, although in fairness the sky is bluish.

thomond2006

Why isn't Jonathan Davies playing? He's a big loss.

Tomtom364

Leinter only just showed up at the ground?

thats a bit late...


and would someone please tell quinlan to stop looking down the camara please, its creepy. he has been watching too much american sports presenting where they all stare into your soul. The pundits looking at each other when making points if far far better.

wicklowwonder

Just turned on Sky and they said Leinster have just arrived. What happened there? Leaving it late.

Tox56

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Just turned on Sky and they said Leinster have just arrived. What happened there? Leaving it late.

Worked for McIlroy

chancer12

any streams plse guys? No TV just internet access

dropkickrugby

thomond2006 wrote: »

Why isn't Jonathan Davies playing? He's a big loss.

injured thomond.

molloyjh

Bloody nervous now. This one is important and I'm not sure how we'll fare....

thomond2006

dropkickrugby wrote: »

injured thomond.

thanks

Deano7788

chancer12 wrote: »

any streams plse guys? No TV just internet access

Ask for a PM here. Only way it's allowed.

GerM

Great start but Ross could have been done for the exact same thing though his was less blatant.

ssaye

Cmon boom 3 nil

molloyjh

Jenno was lucky there....

yimrsg

Browne with a whopper of a hit.

ssaye

Bad pass jenno then big tackle browne madigan clearance ..brill clearance by isa inch perfect

GerM

Ridiculously nervy start. Great clearances from Madigan and Isa.

ssaye

Knock on 3 yards out dmn

molloyjh

Sloppy again in the red zone. If Isa could have gotten that to Madigan....

GerM

That's precisely how they need to operate today. McFadden, Sexton and Jennings all in very low, driving over. Scarlets are weak there.

Great move but McLaughlin knocks on. Scrum down on their 5m.

molloyjh

Eeek....

Plenty of boo-ing today. Stay classy Scarlets fans.

ssaye

Good break scars heaslip alert

ssaye

Gwan heaslip against there scrum.

ironingbored

Same **** as lest week. Poor poor 5m from the line!

And early in the scrum!

molloyjh

GerM wrote: »

That's precisely how they need to operate today. McFadden, Sexton and Jennings all in very low, driving over. Scarlets are weak there.

Great move but McLaughlin knocks on. Scrum down on their 5m.

Some great breakdown and rucking work. Happy with that anyway.

ongarite

Yippee

ssaye

2 out of 2 line outs. Adv try isa boom crossfield jonny

Taco Corp

Brilliant from Isa there!! Try!