Merkel "There will not be any back-dated direct recapitalisation" of eurozone banks.

Leiva

Seems pretty clear to me that Angela Merkel will not be entertaining the idea of Ireland's legacy debts when the new ESM bailout fund is setup and running.

Is it just political talk with a German GE in 12months time, or has the door well and truly been shut in Ireland's face and we are left with the burden of €60+ billion to pay off ourselves?

If this is the case then surely we are entering the end game with regards to keeping the country afloat -as there is no way we can sustain or pay off this debt with any sort of austerity solutions.

I also expect our gains on the bond markets to be wiped out over night with those 9 words form Angela Merkels mouth this afternoon.

Its a bad day.

Black Smoke

Leiva wrote: »

Seems pretty clear to me that Angela Merkel will not be entertaining the idea of Ireland's legacy debts when the new ESM bailout fund is setup and running.

Is it just political talk with a German GE in 12months time, or has the door well and truly been shut in Ireland's face and we are left with the burden of €60+ billion to pay off ourselves?

If this is the case then surely we are entering the end game with regards to keeping the country afloat -as there is no way we can sustain or pay off this debt with any sort of austerity solutions.

I also expect our gains on the bond markets to be wiped out over night with those 9 words form Angela Merkels mouth this afternoon.

Its a bad day.

Don't take a bit of notice of Angela. Our own, great patriot Gilmore, has far more sway, in the world. He said, it would be Labour's way, not Frankfurt's way.
Well, I believe Eamon:cool:

Nody

It got a lot more to do with Spain's banks than Ireland's (keep in mind there was no such plans when the original plan was drawn up so it was always included as part of the deal)...

Kristopherus

Well, she would say that, wouldnt she? It would be her political death if she she said "We must look after little ole' Ireland at all costs(€60bn)":D

goodie2shoes

Kristopherus wrote: »

Well, she would say that, wouldnt she? It would be her political death if she she said "We must look after little ole' Ireland at all costs(€60bn)":D

maybe when Enda was pecking her on the chhek, she whispered "do not worry about it Ende, i will look after your little statelet, once these silly elections are out of the way. would i lie to you Ende? would i?"

dean23

I would believe Merkel any day over Kenny
I much more useless can this government be?
Like for **** sake they are agree to agreement and they don’t even know what is in the agreement

goodie2shoes

Mr Kenny said work was ongoing on Ireland's banking debt on two fronts.

"The Government are also continuing to work with our colleagues to improve the understanding of the sustainability of debt that we agreed in June.

"As I said before, these things are very complex and sensitive and I am not going to go into the detail of them here," he added.

Haven't you listened to a word our leader has said?:eek:

Jaysoose

goodie2shoes wrote: »

Mr Kenny said work was ongoing on Ireland's banking debt on two fronts.

"The Government are also continuing to work with our colleagues to improve the understanding of the sustainability of debt that we agreed in June.

"As I said before, these things are very complex and sensitive and I am not going to go into the detail of them here," he added.

Haven't you listened to a word our leader has said?:eek:

All i read from kennys ramblings on the subject is he doesnt have the first idea what he is talking about and is hoping to god that germany dont chuck us under the bus.

i said it before..a career politician and former teacher is negotiating highly complex matters for us and we expect anything different?

Idbatterim

was watching vincent browne browne last night, there was a guy on it, dont know the name, have seen him before though, who really seemed to know what he was taling about! He was saying one of the main issues was that the electorate in all other Eu countires, just reckon it was the reckless irish, they dont realise we actually saved them a fortune, as well as saving the banking system here obviously. Would it be possible to take full pages in their national papers to actually inform them of what exactly happened?

bbam

You have to wonder if the leaders of us piigs shouldn't form an alliance of sorts and start applying some gentle pressure.. Politics is about negotiation not subservience, individually we are no trouble, together we have leverage.

Maybe if Enda wasn't tripping over his ego to serve Merkel he would realise he's been made a fool of, and by association so are we. We appear to have a weak spinless government, and not many alternatives..

If the current vacuum in politics and able politicians isn't overcome in this country then the voters will turn to the shinners in droves at the next election, and then the Jeanie is well and truly out of the bottle at that stage.

NIMAN

There seems to be a case for screwing the little guys (us) and sorting out the bigger players such as Greece, Portugal, Spain and maybe Italy.

We have the power to bring down the Euro, maybe we should start a little bit of blackmail?

Bullseye1

I have been listening to people on both tv and radio and their claims that she is only saying this to satisfy her own voters with this tough line. I don't buy it, he Germans would not take it if she was lying. Unlike we here who seem to accept lies from our politicians as a matter course.

dunphy3

Idbatterim wrote: »

was watching vincent browne browne last night, there was a guy on it, dont know the name, have seen him before though, who really seemed to know what he was taling about! He was saying one of the main issues was that the electorate in all other Eu countires, just reckon it was the reckless irish, they dont realise we actually saved them a fortune, as well as saving the banking system here obviously. Would it be possible to take full pages in their national papers to actually inform them of what exactly happened?

woud the last person leaving the country please tourn off the lights on the xmass trees. thanks.

Idbatterim

woud the last person leaving the country please tourn off the lights on the xmass trees. thanks.

please elaborate... When i explain to some of the germans i have met over here and my dad is one of them, exactly what has happened, their view is fairly easily changed! what spin do you reckon their media is putting on it?

usernamegoes

Idbatterim wrote: »

was watching vincent browne browne last night, there was a guy on it, dont know the name, have seen him before though, who really seemed to know what he was taling about! He was saying one of the main issues was that the electorate in all other Eu countires, just reckon it was the reckless irish, they dont realise we actually saved them a fortune, as well as saving the banking system here obviously. Would it be possible to take full pages in their national papers to actually inform them of what exactly happened?

Declan Ganley

Idbatterim

Declan Ganley

thats was him, good man! I know its easy to say stuff ala Sinn Fein when you may never be called to act on it, but he seemed like a bit of a hard liner, unlike those little puppie dogs Kenny and Gilmore who the likes of Merkel probably secretly laugh at!

goodie2shoes

Jaysoose wrote: »

All i read from kennys ramblings on the subject is he doesnt have the first idea what he is talking about and is hoping to god that germany dont chuck us under the bus.

i said it before..a career politician and former teacher is negotiating highly complex matters for us and we expect anything different?

i happen to agree with you on this. we have 2 teachers in the 2 most important positions in the Govt. i bet Lucinda really scares the pants off 'em also! LOL

it was by having unqualified people in such positions that landed us in this mess in the first place. on that fateful night in Sept 08 when the bankers came a knocking, who there was qualified to comprehend such matters?

we've learnt NOTHING.:(

bbam

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i happen to agree with you on this. we have 2 teachers in the 2 most important positions in the Govt. i bet Lucinda really scares the pants off 'em also! LOL

it was by having unqualified people in such positions that landed us in this mess in the first place. on that fateful night in Sept 08 when the bankers came a knocking, who there was qualified to comprehend such matters?

we've learnt NOTHING.:(

In fairness Angela Merkel was a chemist, our problem is gombeenism.
Merkel has more balls than Enda and Eamon put together, that's our problem.

goodie2shoes

bbam wrote: »

In fairness Angela Merkel was a chemist,

absolutely she's not helping matters. i would question her grasp of the situation also.

she doesn't seem to understand that austerity, austerity, austerity will not resolve the problems we face.

that said it must be pretty difficult for our lads going to these summits to plead poverty and to ask for debt forgiveness when you consider how grossly out of line their wages (and those of most of our public sector) are.

would you give a 'er "dig out" to someone who was paid more than you?

we need to get our house in order before we can expect assistance imo.

DenMan

goodie2shoes wrote: »

absolutely she's not helping matters. i would question her grasp of the situation also.

she doesn't seem to understand that austerity, austerity, austerity will not resolve the problems we face.

that said it must be pretty difficult for our lads going to these summits to plead poverty and to ask for debt forgiveness when you consider how grossly out of line their wages (and those of most of our public sector) are.

would you give a 'er "dig out" to someone who was paid more than you?

we need to get our house in order before we can expect assistance imo.

That's exactly it. Why isn't this being first addressed? They must laugh at us when our public sector workers are on more than the Germans are. It must infuriate them!

Japer

goodie2shoes wrote: »

absolutely she's not helping matters. i would question her grasp of the situation also.

she doesn't seem to understand that austerity, austerity, austerity will not resolve the problems we face.

that said it must be pretty difficult for our lads going to these summits to plead poverty and to ask for debt forgiveness when you consider how grossly out of line their wages (and those of most of our public sector) are.

would you give a 'er "dig out" to someone who was paid more than you?

we need to get our house in order before we can expect assistance imo.

excellent post...and excellent point. I know for a fact it gets up the germans noses that we pay our public servants ( with money we are borrowing ) so much more than their own public servants, or any other public servants in Europe for that matter. Remember that speech in Ireland by the German about 5 or 6 years ago, where he highlighted how our public sector consultants thought that several hundred thousand euro a year was " micky mouse pay"?

unimpressed

your starting to hit the nail on the head now alright.
Our lot are overpaid underqualified and commpletly out of touch with the realities of the decissions they make.

Ill say it one more time ACCOUNTABILITY where is it :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
We were promised it by all in the run up to the last election:mad::mad::mad:ENOUGH IS ENOUGH with all the lies and backstabbing of the irish people by the political families.

goodie2shoes

Japer wrote: »

excellent post...and excellent point. I know for a fact it gets up the germans noses that we pay our public servants ( with money we are borrowing ) so much more than their own public servants, or any other public servants in Europe for that matter. Remember that speech in Ireland by the German about 5 or 6 years ago, where he highlighted how our public sector consultants thought that several hundred thousand euro a year was " micky mouse pay"?

we as an electorate are prepared to accept a situation where some county managers in the arsehole of nowhere are being paid more than Heads of State in mainland Europe.

Merkel knows full well the German electorate will never tolerate such idiocy, and certainly are not prepared (as they see it) to subsidize it. Personally i admire the Germans for not wanting to.

Japer

goodie2shoes wrote: »

we as an electorate are prepared to accept a situation where some county managers in the arsehole of nowhere are being paid more than Heads of State in mainland Europe.

Merkel knows full well the German electorate will never tolerate such idiocy, and certainly are not prepared (as they see it) to subsidize it. Personally i admire the Germans for not wanting to.

+1. Why they and the IMF tolerate our crazy public sector pay, pensions and inefficiencies I do not know.

goodie2shoes

Japer wrote: »

excellent post...and excellent point. I know for a fact it gets up the germans noses that we pay our public servants ( with money we are borrowing ) so much more than their own public servants, or any other public servants in Europe for that matter. Remember that speech in Ireland by the German about 5 or 6 years ago, where he highlighted how our public sector consultants thought that several hundred thousand euro a year was " micky mouse pay"?

was that where the German embassador was at the opera/NCH when a PA announcement asked somebody to move their 1994 Reg car, and he commented on nobody in Ireland wanting to owe up to owning an oldish car?

and remember how we castigated him for having the temerity to speak to us in such a manner?

Japer

goodie2shoes wrote: »

was that where the German embassador was at the opera/NCH when a PA announcement asked somebody to move their 1994 Reg car, and he commented on nobody in Ireland wanting to owe up to owning an oldish car?

and remember how we castigated him for having the temerity to speak to us in such a manner?

thats right, thats the one. He thought our public sector salaries were way too high then, and he has been proved correct. Pity not much has changed since.

Dob74

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i happen to agree with you on this. we have 2 teachers in the 2 most important positions in the Govt. i bet Lucinda really scares the pants off 'em also! LOL

it was by having unqualified people in such positions that landed us in this mess in the first place. on that fateful night in Sept 08 when the bankers came a knocking, who there was qualified to comprehend such matters?

we've learnt NOTHING.:(

Can't agree more. Junior mof a teacher as well and a union rep.

Peter Matthews an experienced banker sitting on the back benches with no executive powers:(
Joan Burton who called ff out on the bank guarantee out in social welfare.

The joke continues

Sand

There's never been a hope of the Germans ever paying off our debt. We have thrown away all our cards. We've nothing left to play. The "moderate" Green Jersey strategy has reduced us to a position where our only strategy is to grovel and plead, uselessly.

Idbatterim wrote: »

was watching vincent browne browne last night, there was a guy on it, dont know the name, have seen him before though, who really seemed to know what he was taling about! He was saying one of the main issues was that the electorate in all other Eu countires, just reckon it was the reckless irish, they dont realise we actually saved them a fortune, as well as saving the banking system here obviously. Would it be possible to take full pages in their national papers to actually inform them of what exactly happened?

Two points

1:

He was saying one of the main issues was that the electorate in all other Eu countires, just reckon it was the reckless irish

Of course they would. Only back in January of this year, Enda Kenny told the assembled world media at the Davos conference that Irish were entirely and solely to blame for their own predicament.

“What happened in our country was that people simply went mad borrowing,”

This is a statement by a man who is supposed to be negotiating on our behalf. I have to remind myself of that when I read it.

This was greeted by applause by the vocal posters who, much like the Catholic Church of the 1950s, consider all of Ireland's problems at their root being that of morality. In their view, what Ireland needs is several visits to Confession and many years of penance and prayer to save our rotten, greedy souls. What both they and Enda Kenny obviously missed is that the wider European media are entirely disinterested in Ireland or its moral situation. They took Enda's careless, boorish, stupid statement at face value and should we be surprised that they incorrectly think "Well, it was all Ireland's fault".


2

they dont realise we actually saved them a fortune, as well as saving the banking system here obviously.

We didn't save them a fortune, and we didn't save the banking system here - we saved bad banks, with awful cultures who are incapable of functioning in an economically useful way. Arguing the toss over if we saved the EU a fortune or not is both pointless and self defeating.

Our only useful argument is to cite that even if Ireland fully complies with the plan our debt burden is still unmanageable. That is the only point worth raising. Not that the plan is unjust: but that the plan wont work. They don't care less if the plan is just or unjust. All they care about is if it will work.

goodie2shoes

the Germans will continue squeezing us until we sort ourselves out and rightly so.

did ya hear the one about the minister of finance who had no bank account?
or the financial regulator who was given a huge golden handshake after the financial system bankrupted his country?
or the PM who gave an interview and appeared drunk/hungover?
or the finance minister who gave tax breaks to developers when the property market was inflating beyond control?

all these gombeens who run and have run this bankrupt little island.
who voted for them anyhow?

Have a look at this and I think you'll see why the Germans do not share our sense of humour.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/organisations-are-top-heavy-with-high-earners-189877.html

Dannyboy83

Japer wrote: »

excellent post...and excellent point. I know for a fact it gets up the germans noses that we pay our public servants ( with money we are borrowing ) so much more than their own public servants, or any other public servants in Europe for that matter. Remember that speech in Ireland by the German about 5 or 6 years ago, where he highlighted how our public sector consultants thought that several hundred thousand euro a year was " micky mouse pay"?

The British said the same when they gave us a unilateral loan.

They put through their own PS reforms, so that they could loan us money.

Of course it was British self interest, but the British taxpayer was irate that they had to reform so they could bail us out. Irish people were equally irate at the prospect of bailing out a Greece that refused to reform.

Dannyboy83

Sand wrote: »

We didn't save them a fortune, and we didn't save the banking system here - we saved bad banks, with awful cultures who are incapable of functioning in an economically useful way. Arguing the toss over if we saved the EU a fortune or not is both pointless and self defeating.

Well, Germany did save the Irish taxpayer from catastrophe by bailing out DEPFA bank to tune of 100billion:

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0623/1224318510625.html

Depfa Bank was originally a German institution. But it relocated to the IFSC to take advantage of the less onerous regulation there. Thankfully, from an Irish perspective, it was bought by a larger German bank on the very eve of the outbreak of the global financial crisis. It promptly went wallop. The German government had to fork out €100 billion to prop it up. Had it remained under Irish regulatory control, the bill would have landed on Irish taxpayers. The sovereign would have been squashed long before that eventually came to pass at the end of 2010.

Dannyboy83

We were approaching this from the outset with the attitude that we wouldn't get any special treatment.
Then it seemed we might, now we are backing to thinking we won't.

Hasn't really changed anything has it?


Aside from anything else, everyone knows the EZ Crisis is completely schizophrenic.
This week we won't.
Next week, Markets panic, big EZ conference, then we will.

My reaction to this news is: "pfffffffft"


Perhaps it might be in out best interest if we don't get any special treatment.
We reformed in the early 90s - we can do it again.

Anita Blow

There is no way having the taxpayer repay €60 billion worth of bank debt "might be in our best interest".

We should just default sooner rather than later. If they want to play hardball with us then I'm sure we can do the same. Unfortunately our elected officials are completely spineless. They're rather be sycophants to the EU Elite rather than serve their electorate like they're meant to.

bbam

Anita Blow wrote: »

There is no way having the taxpayer repay €60 billion worth of bank debt "might be in our best interest".

We should just default sooner rather than later. If they want to play hardball with us then I'm sure we can do the same. Unfortunately our elected officials are completely spineless. They're rather be sycophants to the EU Elite rather than serve their electorate like they're meant to.

I'd say the only party who would follow through on a default are the shinners, I really don't think we want them in power...

And then there is the old chestnut that our internal revenue is way, way short of our expenditure... You would still have this problem.

Good loser

Anita Blow wrote: »

There is no way having the taxpayer repay €60 billion worth of bank debt "might be in our best interest".

We should just default sooner rather than later. If they want to play hardball with us then I'm sure we can do the same. Unfortunately our elected officials are completely spineless. They're rather be sycophants to the EU Elite rather than serve their electorate like they're meant to.

And should Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece default too?

Where would the euro go then?

And the EU?

You confuse noise with light.

Our only, and slight, hope is that we can convince the German people and the Finnish and the Dutch that it would be in their best interests to save us.

The most we'll get from them is €10 bn.

Sir Oxman

goodie2shoes wrote: »

we as an electorate are prepared to accept a situation where some county managers in the arsehole of nowhere are being paid more than Heads of State in mainland Europe.

Merkel knows full well the German electorate will never tolerate such idiocy, and certainly are not prepared (as they see it) to subsidize it. Personally i admire the Germans for not wanting to.

Brilliantly put!

Japer

Good loser wrote: »

Our only, and slight, hope is that we can convince the German people and the Finnish and the Dutch that it would be in their best interests to save us.

but at the moment our public sector representatives who sit across the table from their public service representatives are paid ( + pensioned ) considerably more. Now if you were a taxpayer in Frankfurt would you like to see you taxes going to a higher paid public servant in Ireland who defaults?

Scofflaw

Idbatterim wrote: »

was watching vincent browne browne last night, there was a guy on it, dont know the name, have seen him before though, who really seemed to know what he was taling about! He was saying one of the main issues was that the electorate in all other Eu countires, just reckon it was the reckless irish, they dont realise we actually saved them a fortune, as well as saving the banking system here obviously. Would it be possible to take full pages in their national papers to actually inform them of what exactly happened?

That would involve, first, and foremost, producing an accurate account of what happened, and how we saved them money. As far as I've ever been able to see, we didn't save anyone else (any other EU country) any money back in 2008 - on the contrary, we put everyone else in jeopardy with a unilateral stroke. The bit where we "saved them money" came in 2010, when we were forced into honouring the bonds we had already agreed to honour and accepted a bailout to stop us, again, putting the entire system in jeopardy.

Much hard talk is talked about our position vis a vis the other European countries, and much amazement is expressed at their apparent lack of understanding of how great we were in the crisis, and at our own government's apparent failure to capitalise on this greatness. An alternative, and much simpler explanation, is that we weren't, and that the government, like other European countries, and unlike a significant portion of the Irish public, are acutely aware of this.

There is, after all, no evidence available to support the cosy notion that we "saved" Europe.

cordially,
Scofflaw

goodie2shoes

Japer wrote: »

but at the moment our public sector representatives who sit across the table from their public service representatives are paid ( + pensioned ) considerably more. Now if you were a taxpayer in Frankfurt would you like to see you taxes going to a higher paid public servant in Ireland who defaults?

it's a no-brainer for the German worker (who has not overspent/over-indulged at all), and therefore for Frau Merkel.

seriously if your friends/neighbours up the road went mad spending, and borrowing, 3 holidays a year, shopping trips to NY, new BMers, big house and then knocked on your door and said they had made a dreadful mistake and needed your financial assistance. However they continued to pay themselves a multiple of what you are earning, whilst all the time you had been sensible, frugal and somewhat boring in your spending habits.
What would your response be?

Scofflaw

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

We were approaching this from the outset with the attitude that we wouldn't get any special treatment.
Then it seemed we might, now we are backing to thinking we won't.

Hasn't really changed anything has it?


Aside from anything else, everyone knows the EZ Crisis is completely schizophrenic.
This week we won't.
Next week, Markets panic, big EZ conference, then we will.

My reaction to this news is: "pfffffffft"


Perhaps it might be in out best interest if we don't get any special treatment.
We reformed in the early 90s - we can do it again.

Have to agree on the "pfft". The ESM wasn't ever going to take the €60bn off our backs, and anyone who thinks that was ever on the cards is kidding themselves. The deals on the table, or at least at the table, are that the ESM might buy the State's share in our covered banks, and that we might get an extended arrangement for the promissory notes.

The second of those is subject to incredibly complicated and finicky manoeuvres in order to prevent the money in question being either a monetary transfer to the State or adding to the euro area money supply, and is therefore contingent on teams of accountants being wired together into a sort of accountancy supercomputer and producing a pathway through n-dimensional monetary space to a positive outcome.

The former is still possible despite the various statements being toted as the kiss of death here, but some of the possible extra elements in that deal - that the ESM might pay over market prices for the State's shares, and that the ESM would thereby become responsible for any future recapitalisations of our pillar banks - may have been impacted if these statements represent final positions. Or they may not, particularly the second possibility. The figure I've heard put on such a deal is around €9bn, and that's the only direct "write-off" deal that's been at the table.

It's that deal which represents the "breaking of the link between sovereigns and banks", by the way - in the simplest way possible, by taking the banks out of the hands of the government, it takes the government out of banking, and thereby breaks the sovereign-banking link.

But let's be entirely clear - there wasn't ever a deal where the ESM swallowed our existing bank recapitalisations or bank debt, particularly not the €40bn or so that is Anglo's poisonous legacy. We really are stuck with that, and our hope is to rearrange its paying down to make it as painless as possible.

cordially,
Scofflaw

goodie2shoes

Scofflaw wrote: »

Have to agree on the "pfft". The ESM wasn't ever going to take the €60bn off our backs, and anyone who thinks that was ever on the cards is kidding themselves. The deals on the table, or at least at the table, are that the ESM might buy the State's share in our covered banks, and that we might get an extended arrangement for the promissory notes.

The second of those is subject to incredibly complicated and finicky manoeuvres in order to prevent the money in question being either a monetary transfer to the State or adding to the euro area money supply, and is therefore contingent on teams of accountants being wired together into a sort of accountancy supercomputer and producing a pathway through n-dimensional monetary space to a positive outcome.

The former is still possible despite the various statements being toted as the kiss of death here, but some of the possible extra elements in that deal - that the ESM might pay over market prices for the State's shares, and that the ESM would thereby become responsible for any future recapitalisations of our pillar banks - may have been impacted if these statements represent final positions. Or they may not, particularly the second possibility. The figure I've heard put on such a deal is around €9bn, and that's the only direct "write-off" deal that's been at the table.

It's that deal which represents the "breaking of the link between sovereigns and banks", by the way - in the simplest way possible, by taking the banks out of the hands of the government, it takes the government out of banking, and thereby breaks the sovereign-banking link.

But let's be entirely clear - there wasn't ever a deal where the ESM swallowed our existing bank recapitalisations or bank debt, particularly not the €40bn or so that is Anglo's poisonous legacy. We really are stuck with that, and our hope is to rearrange its paying down to make it as painless as possible.

cordially,
Scofflaw

yes it look likes you might be right.
i think the best we can hope for is some type of restructuring, say over 50 years to ease the pain and hopefully growth will recover sufficiently.
to achieve this we need/must restructure our entire economy, as we did in the late 80s.
to this end it might be a good thing as otherwise we would never even bother imo, as there are too many vested interests who are quite content with the status quo.

so now ENDA it's time to step up to the plate ........

skimpydoo

Fine Gael lied too us regarding the ESM and recapitalisation of Eurozone banks. The deal done in June never said that we would be looked after. Enda Kenny & Co knowingly mislead us knowing full well that we won't do anything once the truth came out.

I am so pissed of at the current government that my anger is boiling over. We have a government led by 2 teachers who are the Laurel & Hardy of World Politics. We have a bank bench government TD Peter Matthews who is sadly idle. He is a qualified Chartered Accountant, and has worked for Coopers & Lybrand (now PwC) and ICC Bank. Before becoming a TD, he was a consultant on banking and finance, and a media commentator. If Enda had any balls he would have put Peter in charge of negotiation's with Europe we would not be so far up **** Creek.

vicwatson

Is there an "Irish" Government that hasn't ??

skimpydoo

vicwatson wrote: »

Is there an "Irish" Government that hasn't ??

Well not as bad as this. I knew that Europe was not going to give us a deal as did the average dog in the street but they still told us we would be looked after.

jased10s

Im hoping this is the straw that finally gets mass peacefull protest.

Oarrack Bama

Would it be rude to suggest the OP may have had a tipple?


My reading of the situation with Ireland is that negotiations are going on between Ireland and the ECB on the promissory notes and separately with other EU bodies on the other part of the bank debt to do with the ESM. The ECB confirms this is happening.

Darth Vader Ollie Rehn said so himself on Thursday. Is he lying? Not likely. This is a fuss over nothing in my opinion.

Chuck Stone

Welcome to the nature of protecting the stakeholders of a failed system at the expense of the public.

Enjoy your stay.

skimpydoo

Oarrack Bama wrote: »

Would it be rude to suggest the OP may have had a tipple?


My reading of the situation with Ireland is that negotiations are going on between Ireland and the ECB on the promissory notes and separately with other EU bodies on the other part of the bank debt to do with the ESM. The ECB confirms this is happening.

Darth Vader Ollie Rehn said so himself on Thursday. Is he lying? Not likely. This is a fuss over nothing in my opinion.

I am sober as a judge and yesterday Angela Merkel said

that there would be no retrospective direct recapitalisation of banks by the permanent bailout fund.

Scofflaw

Ronan Leonard wrote: »

Fine Gael lied too us regarding the ESM and recapitalisation of Eurozone banks. The deal done in June never said that we would be looked after. Enda Kenny & Co knowingly mislead us knowing full well that we won't do anything once the truth came out.

I am so pissed of at the current government that my anger is boiling over. We have a government led by 2 teachers who are the Laurel & Hardy of World Politics. We have a bank bench government TD Peter Matthews who is sadly idle. He is a qualified Chartered Accountant, and has worked for Coopers & Lybrand (now PwC) and ICC Bank. Before becoming a TD, he was a consultant on banking and finance, and a media commentator. If Enda had any balls he would have put Peter in charge of negotiation's with Europe we would not be so far up **** Creek.

How did you miss the existing thread? Yellow card, threads merged.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Ronan Leonard wrote: »

I am sober as a judge and yesterday Angela Merkel said

And back in July Noonan said:

"Deputy Michael Noonan: As I have said on several occasions, we are pursuing the possibility of achieving a full deal on a replacement of the promissory note with a mechanism which would, in general terms, lengthen the period of repayment and reduce the interest rate to make it significantly easier on the Irish taxpayer. However, we are not looking for any write-offs or anything like that, because it was made quite clear when the Greek deal was done that it was a unique arrangement for that country"

Source: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/07/05/00051.asp

So I'm not really sure what deal the government have failed to deliver on. Peter Mathews certainly thinks it can be done, but, again, note that the government doesn't:

Deputy Michael Noonan: I have been over this ground with the Deputy privately and publicly. His position is that the burden of bank debt is dragging the country down and that it is not possible to return the country to solvency and to have a normal working economy unless bank debt is written off. His suggestion is that the banks should write off €50 billion and that the ECB should write off another €25 billion.

Deputy Peter Mathews: No, the ECB should write off €50 billion. The value of the remaining senior bondholder and pro-notes should be written down by €25 billion.

Deputy Michael Noonan: The total is €75 billion.

Deputy Peter Mathews: Yes, which would equate to a 35% devaluation in the eurozone.

Deputy Michael Noonan: That is a great solution, if anyone would do it.

Deputy Peter Mathews: It is the right solution, but they will not do it, unless the Minister offers it. However, we have not said it. I told Herman Van Rompuy personally.

Deputy Michael Noonan: When I make such suggestions to people in Europe, they think I am deranged.

Deputy Peter Mathews: They do not.

Deputy Michael Noonan: That is the problem; they ask, “Who is this crazy guy?” I have to get into negotiating positions. I could go to Brussels tomorrow morning and say, “Here is a solution for you lads; we need a write-off of €75 billion, deal done.” However, the problem is that while the Deputy’s analysis is absolutely brilliant, his solution is what Emmet Oliver described in the Irish Independent as a further kindergarten solution.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/FIJ/2011/09/01/00003.asp

It does seem you've been sold a pup, but by whom?

cordially,
Scofflaw

hatrickpatrick

When is the rest of Europe going to stand up to these tyrants?
I'm getting utterly fed up of Merkel not only self styling herself the queen of Europe but going more or less unchallenged by the rest of the EU.