Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

The part where it is our debt. Our previous Government rather stupidly put in place the blanket guarantee. That made it our debt.

I don't see why our current govt can't wave that magic wand they have and produce legislation: to enable them to renege on a debt that wasn't ours


They only make laws that gouge the citizens of Ireland, none to protect them.

dxhound2005

Le_Dieux wrote: »

The nazi's were nothing on this lot...and I'm NOT being sarcastic!!!

Dictatorship HAS taken over!!!:eek:

Could you not save this sort of histrionics for your middle of the night contributions.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

I don't see why our current govt can't wave that magic wand they have and produce legislation: to enable them to renege on a debt that wasn't ours

And while they're at it if they could pass some legislation to make the weather better that would be just great.

MadYaker

darkhorse wrote: »

What part of "It Is not our Debt" do you not understand.

It is our debt. When Brian Lenihan signed the bank guarantee he made it our debt. This has been covered 10000 times how have you not got it yet? It was a stupid thing to do but whether you accept it or not is irrelevant, that's the reality we now have to live with. It is also the reason we were forced into this deal with the troika. If private bank debt hadn't been nationalised we would have no problem getting money on the international markets, to finance our country, and we wouldn't have the troika forcing us to close our deficit which is the reason for the austerity we are experiencing.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

The nazi's were nothing on this lot...and I'm NOT being sarcastic!!!

Dictatorship HAS taken over!!!:eek:

Thread godwinned haha! Are you seriously likening our current government to Germany's Nazi Party? Hilarious.

dvpower

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Could you not save this sort of histrionics for your middle of the night contributions.

Drinking in the afternoon - well for some :pac:

Ghandee

Le_Dieux

dxhound2005 wrote: »

COM Cliffs of Moher? Please don't do that.

I will do ANYTHING but give these people another cent. I am self employed, and s-l-o-w-l-y being bled dry.

Aside from the right or wrong of paying, I simply do not have a cent more to give them bastairds.

Le_Dieux

MadYaker wrote: »

It is our debt. When Brian Lenihan signed the bank guarantee he made it our debt. This has been covered 10000 times how have you not got it yet? It was a stupid thing to do but whether you accept it or not is irrelevant, that's the reality we now have to live with. It is also the reason we were forced into this deal with the troika. If private bank debt hadn't been nationalised we would have no problem getting money on the international markets, to finance our country, and we wouldn't have the troika forcing us to close our deficit which is the reason for the austerity we are experiencing.



Thread godwinned haha! Are you seriously likening our current government to Germany's Nazi Party? Hilarious.

Then how do you describe the actions the revenue will resort to, if what we vbelieve is true?

Le_Dieux

tayto lover wrote: »

Link to the t.v. inspectors getting warrants please.

You DO realise who you are asking for a link Tayto Lover?

Don't overdo the holding of breath!

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

What kind of proof would you accept?

I don't talk to you, so please don't come along with your smart snide remarks.....I asked MadYaker!!

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I don't talk to you, so please don't come along with your smart snide remarks.....I asked MadYaker!!

But you are talking to me in this very post :pac:

MadYaker

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Then how do you describe the actions the revenue will resort to, if what we believe is true?

Well people who illegally dodge tax are criminals, no different to people who steal from others so they should be treated the same in my opinion. However I do have sympathy for those who honestly can't afford to pay. Can't say you'll be treated any differently to any of the other non payers though.

But really I don't see the point in holding a debate with anyone who believes there are major similarities between our government and Germany's Nazi Party!

Smidge

Le_Dieux wrote: »

The nazi's were nothing on this lot...and I'm NOT being sarcastic!!!

Dictatorship HAS taken over!!!:eek:

I have serious issue with how this property tax is being implemented.

Firstly, how in under God are we to "value" our properties accurately?
It is fair enough if you live within an estate etc but not everyone does.

Is it a valuation of the property that would enable said property to be sold?
Surely that is the definition of a property valuation?

Therefore in order for me to sell my home in the current market I would then be 90k in negative equity(believe me, my house is not a mansion nor did I pay what would have been considered "mad money" when it was purchased at the height of the boom, lets put it this way I wouldn't have got a house in Dublin for what I paid for it).

But if I do value it at what it would take for it to sell, are the revenue then going to tell me I have under-valued it?

And moreover, I have always kept my life insurance and house insurance in order(in compliance with having a mortgage).
If I have to put a value on my home that would enable it to sell, will this then be my valuation for my house insurance?

If so, there isn't a chance in hell that I could rebuild my home God forbid if anything happened to it with that kind of an insurance policy.
So therefore what would be the point in me having house insurance and having paid it all these years?
But yet if I don't have house insurance I am in breach of my mortgage contract.

:mad:

Le_Dieux

MadYaker wrote: »

Well people who illegally dodge tax are criminals, no different to people who steal from others so they should be treated the same in my opinion.

But really I don't see the point in holding a debate with anyone who believes there are major similarities between our government and Germany's Nazi Party!

The reference is NOT in comparison between parties, but in the actions the nazi's did, and what is remoured a department are to act in the name of a so-called democratically elected government - not genocide, but in breaking into houses.

There is another problem which I don't think anyone has mentioned up to now:

I have friends on the yes side ( see Donal, I don't just talk to people who are of the same persuasion as myself), who have paid the HHC this year, yet swear they won't pay a cent next year because they feel it's totally unfair they paid & their details are on record, yet mine are not, nor have I received a 'reminder' up to now.

This bunch are total clowns when it comes to enacting the law

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Could you not save this sort of histrionics for your middle of the night contributions.

They ARE behaving like Nazis .
They are trying to tell us that our homes are not our own.
They are screwing the disabled and the people who look after them
They are taking food out of the mouths of babies.
They are evicting people from their homes.
They are allowing the corrupt banking people to retain their lump sums and pensions but punishing the working class.
They are putting members of their own families into high paying jobs.
They support cronyism and dubious politics.

Ghandee

MadYaker wrote: »

Well people who illegally dodge tax are criminals, no different to people who steal from others so they should be treated the same in my opinion.

Would you put Mr Hegarty on the same pedestal as someone like, Martin Cahill say?

The leader of Fine Gael on the country’s largest local authority said he was "working on a repayments process" with Revenue after his business got into difficulties.

Michael Hegarty, a long-serving member of Cork County Council, owes the Revenue’s collector general €81,823.

He made the comment after his details appeared in Stubbs Gazette.

Cllr Hegarty, from Ladysbridge in East Cork, said his property management services company had encountered difficulties.

"I was basically running an auctioneers’ business and I, like many other people, had invested in a few properties," he said yesterday.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0906/world/fg-councillor-owes-81k-to-revenue-over-properties-206607.html

dxhound2005

Smidge wrote: »

I have serious issue with how this property tax is being implemented.

Firstly, how in under God are we to "value" our properties accurately?
It is fair enough if you live within an estate etc but not everyone does.

Is it a valuation of the property that would enable said property to be sold?
Surely that is the definition of a property valuation?

Therefore in order for me to sell my home in the current market I would then be 90k in negative equity(believe me, my house is not a mansion nor did I pay what would have been considered "mad money" when it was purchased at the height of the boom, lets put it this way I wouldn't have got a house in Dublin for what I paid for it).

But if I do value it at what it would take for it to sell, are the revenue then going to tell me I have under-valued it?

And moreover, I have always kept my life insurance and house insurance in order(in compliance with having a mortgage).
If I have to put a value on my home that would enable it to sell, will this then be my valuation for my house insurance?

If so, there isn't a chance in hell that I could rebuild my home God forbid if anything happened to it with that kind of an insurance policy.
So therefore what would be the point in me having house insurance and having paid it all these years?
But yet if I don't have house insurance I am in breach of my mortgage contract.

:mad:

There is no need to do anything until well into next year and you will be given guidance about valuation. I presume you have paid the HHC and you have no penalties hanging over you. Just enjoy Christmas.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/budget_2013.html

The Revenue Commissioners will send out an explanatory booklet on the operation of LPT, including valuation procedures, in March 2013.

Smidge

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no need to do anything until well into next year and you will be given guidance about valuation. I presume you have paid the HHC and you have no penalties hanging over you. Just enjoy Christmas.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/budget_2013.html

The Revenue Commissioners will send out an explanatory booklet on the operation of LPT, including valuation procedures, in March 2013.

All due respect dx, Christmas is not something I get very much enjoyment from any more as it has become a burden(and I guess this is true for a lot of people).
And unfortunately I have to worry about it now as I need to start wondering where the f*ck am I going to get this extra money!!

Also, what did you make about what I said with regard to house insurance??

dvpower

Smidge wrote: »

Also, what did you make about what I said with regard to house insurance??

House insurance valuations are not based on the house value - they are based on rebuilding costs.

Top money saving tip: House rebuilding costs have come down substantially over the last few years and many people are over insured. If you review your house insurance you might be able to save some money to go towards the property tax

dxhound2005

Smidge wrote: »

All due respect dx, Christmas is not something I get very much enjoyment from any more as it has become a burden(and I guess this is true for a lot of people).
And unfortunately I have to worry about it now as I need to start wondering where the f*ck am I going to get this extra money!!

Also, what did you make about what I said with regard to house insurance??

I don't know about that but I think as far as compliance with the new law is concerned the quote below is something I would rely on.

http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Documents/Annex%20B%20-%20Local%20Property%20Tax.pdf

Valuing Property
• Liable persons will self-assess the market value of their property.
• Where Revenue guidance about valuing a property is followed, property valuations will not be challenged by the Revenue Commissioners.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

House insurance valuations are not based on the house value - they are based on rebuilding costs.

Top money saving tip: House rebuilding costs have come down substantially over the last few years and many people are over insured. If you review your house insurance you might be able to save some money to go towards the property tax

AND if you stop buying coal, food and clothing you might make up the rest.

OR you could write to them and tell them you'll pay 5 euro per week.

OR refuse to pay a tax on your own home and join the 7/800 thousand others who will do the same.

Smidge

dvpower wrote: »

House insurance valuations are not based on the house value - they are based on rebuilding costs.

Top money saving tip: House rebuilding costs have come down substantially over the last few years and many people are over insured. If you review your house insurance you might be able to save some money to go towards the property tax

If you re-read my post you will see that I said that there isn't a chance in hell of me re-building my house for what the valuation at current market value would be.
And it is worth remembering that if you have your house valued for say 100k and it burns to the ground YOU DON'T GET 100k from the insurance company as anyone who has ever had to make a claim on their insurance will verify, you never get the full amount of a claim through insurance.

Also, I have reduced my policy to the very minimum that is prudent.

Ghandee

Smidge wrote: »

If you re-read my post you will see that I said that there isn't a chance in hell of me re-building my house for what the valuation at current market value would be.
And it is worth remembering that if you have your house valued for say 100k and it burns to the ground YOU DON'T GET 100k from the insurance company as anyone who has ever had to make a claim on their insurance will verify, you never get the full amount of a claim through insurance.

Also, I have reduced my policy to the very minimum that is prudent.

Want Ghandee's money saving tip?

Put the forms you receive from revenue into the fire/stove when lighting it on a chilly evening, save a few cents on a fire lighter.

Then, put your three or four hundred euro aside, treat yourself to something nice, because if you hand it over, no questions asked, you'll be trying for a refund on it for a long long time after its inevitable abolition which will happen pretty soon.

dvpower

Smidge wrote: »

If you re-read my post you will see that I said that there isn't a chance in hell of me re-building my house for what the valuation at current market value would be.

You clearly have some idea about what the market value is.

You can use this figure to estimate the valuation.

Slick50

Ghandee wrote: »

Brilliant!!! If that's your handy work, you should submit it to Ireland's pictorial weekly.

As for powers to allow the revenue access to private property, why not give them the powers to collect any monies found on the premises while they are there, saving them having to come up with more legislation to rob us.

The way they are going, it's only a matter of time before they start threatening to sell the roof over our heads to collect this tax.

pitkan

This year I had 100 euro to spend in the economy as I didn't subscribe to the Irish number 1 joke of all time namely the Household Charge.
Next year , should Revenue 'run me down' and assuming that there will only be 6 months of the Property Tax and my liabilities, as determined by Revenue, are carried over to the 2014 tax year then our household and my pocket money will be diminished by the liable amount and cannot, therefore, be spent by my household or by myself.
Bearing in mind that the 100 euro will become 200 euro plus the 3,000 euro fine for not complying with the tax form and then the actual charge and penalties will all become less money to be spent in the already depressed economy.
Multiply this loss by the 'criminals' like myself and the subscribers to this farce and that is one whoppping amount of spending power gone to pay unsecured bondholders.

dxhound2005

Just reading recent contributions about valuations it struck me that a property tax could have the effect of stopping a future housing bubble. But then I remembered what happend in Newry 6 years ago when prices went up 50% in one year. These properties are also subject to a value based tax and the rates are much higher than here.

So we can probably look forward to another bout of madness, it is a recurring phenomenon internationally and it seems that lessons are easily forgotten.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/dec/23/houseprices.northernireland

The average cost of housing in the County Down city has increased by 54% - £128,000 to £198,000 - over the past year, according to a survey by Halifax Estate Agents which shows the top 10 increases in the UK were all in Northern Ireland.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Then, put your three or four hundred euro aside, treat yourself to something nice, because if you hand it over, no questions asked, you'll be trying for a refund on it for a long long time after its inevitable abolition which will happen pretty soon.

Maybe best to put this money aside - it'll be useful for paying the penalties, interest and fines.

Smidge

dvpower wrote: »

You clearly have some idea about what the market value is.

You can use this figure to estimate the valuation.

I do have an idea of what the value of my home would be if I were TRYING TO SELL IT on today's market.

And as I said if this is then the valuation that I put on my property it would have to be the valuation for my home insurance.
I could not rebuild my home as it stands for that insurance premium.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Maybe best to put this money aside - it'll be useful for paying the penalties, interest and fines.

If I were you, I'd be preparing for a motion of no confidence to be put to the dail on Friday.;)
Could this be the start of the slippery slope?