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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

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    #302
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Hijpo wrote: »
    No, im stating that if you feel we are getting something for nothing then why dont you pay for it if you feel the need to.

    However, if i was to say yes, i want you to make up for my shortfall and you said no, then i would ask why is ok for you not to pay for my shortfall on services but ok for me to sub the money being poured into governments pensions, allowances, salaries and bondholders which in there own way contribute to the public services shortfall. ie: If they wernt so greedy by protecting there own needless and over the top resources there would be money freed up to put into the public services.

    Where did i say you are getting something for nothing? I said if you are liable for the HHC then you should pay it, you are the one telling me to send money off to the Revenue for some reason.

    So again you want others to take cuts in pay while you are refusing to pay your own taxes.


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    #303
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    View wrote: »
    You forgot "Judge awards costs against the non-paying householder" and "income tax raised to fund courts to process non-paying householders cases".

    The non-paying householder will turn out a real winner in both those cases - you don't mind paying that extra income tax, right?

    Link ?


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    #304
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    If anyone was listening to rte news at one radio earlier-next years property tax it seems employers will have to seek permission to be able to deduct property tax from paye.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0idUp4DuTw


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    #305
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,837 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Where did i say you are getting something for nothing? I said if you are liable for the HHC then you should pay it, you are the one telling me to send money off to the Revenue for some reason.

    So again you want others to take cuts in pay while you are refusing to pay your own taxes.

    If you think you pay enough for services you receive then why pay more money for the services?? This is what they are telling us the HHC is for right?
    Is it for the sole reason that they want it so your giving it?

    I like others would pay more if the people who demand MORE money from me, who are not exempt from paying there way either, made a meaningful contribution to the financial problem also.


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    #306
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Link ?
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0036/sec0015.html#sec15
    (4) Where a person is convicted of an offence under this Act, the court shall order the person to pay to the relevant local authority the costs and expenses, measured by the court, incurred by the relevant local authority in relation to the investigation, detection and prosecution of the offence, unless the court is satisfied that there are special and substantial reasons for not so doing.

    It astounds me that people who are actively campaigning against the HHC don't know that they will end up paying costs on top of interest and penalties and fines.


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    #307
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Hijpo wrote: »
    If you think you pay enough for services you receive then why pay more money for the services?? This is what they are telling us the HHC is for right?
    Is it for the sole reason that they want it so your giving it?

    No I am giving it because to not give it would be to break the law which is not something I want to do.


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    #308
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    dvpower wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0036/sec0015.html#sec15



    It astounds me that people who are actively campaigning against the HHC don't know that they will end up paying costs on top of interest and penalties and fines.

    And when people refuse to pay the court costs what will try do then ?


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    #309
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Income tax - Ability to pay depending on earnings.

    Property tax - Whether ya have it or not, we want it.

    First, we don’t yet know what form the property tax will take. I don’t anticipate, nor would I support, one that would see people who genuinely cannot afford to pay being evicted from their homes.

    Second, income tax does not take really take account of an individual’s ability to pay. Two people might nominally be on the same income and liable for the same amount of increased income tax but one might have a family / kids in college / large mortgage etc. and the other not.

    Any austerity measure, no matter what form it takes, will hit some, and probably quite a lot of people, very hard. Pretending that income tax increases will be less painful than a property tax is just daft.

    But if you fancy an increase in income tax, I expect you will eventually get your wish, but it will be as well as, and not instead of a property tax. ;)


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    #310
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Am Chile wrote: »
    And when people refuse to pay the court costs what will try do then ?
    I'm gonna guess: the same thing that always happens when anyone refuses to pay a fine/costs as ordered by a court! No?


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    #311
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0036/sec0015.html#sec15



    It astounds me that people who are actively campaigning against the HHC don't know that they will end up paying costs on top of interest and penalties and fines.

    That is codswallop and unworkable as already stated.
    I thought you had some new stuff.
    I am not actively campaigning at all. In fact I didn't leave the house to pay the charge and you can expect my inactivity to continue along with that of 700k more home owners :D


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    #312
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Am Chile wrote: »
    And when people refuse to pay the court costs what will try do then ?
    Contempt of court => jail.


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    #313
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    lugha wrote: »
    I'm gonna guess: the same thing that always happens when anyone refuses to pay a fine/costs as ordered by a court! No?

    We will all end up sitting in the office of Mountjoy Prison for about 2 hours waiting to be told "go home your fine is now deemed to be paid as we have no room for you here". That is what's happening now as it stands.


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    #314
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    Contempt of court => jail.

    See above !!


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    #315
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    dvpower wrote: »
    Contempt of court => jail.

    Plenty will be more then ready to go including myself if it comes to it.


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    #316
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,837 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    donalg1 wrote: »
    No I am giving it because to not give it would be to break the law which is not something I want to do.

    when your property tax and water rates and increased income tax is making you sweat and the lads are still ponsing around in there suits pretending there running a country when its actually there advisors or the troika (who ever they want to blame) well see how many laws you are able to comply with.


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    #317
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    We will all end up sitting in the office of Mountjoy Prison for about 2 hours waiting to be told "go home your fine is now deemed to be paid as we have no room for you here". That is what's happening now as it stands.
    That might just work for the court costs.

    The €2500 fine will be enforced via the Fines Act, or the new Fines Bill that was published today. This allows for attachment of income or assets for people who refuse to pay fines. I predicted this in this thread about six months ago and I was accused of scaremongering - seems I was right on the button.


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    #318
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    That might just work for the court costs.

    The €2500 fine will be enforced via the Fines Act, or the new Fines Bill that was published today. This allows for attachment of income or assets for people who refuse to pay fines. I predicted this in this thread about six months ago and I was accused of scaremongering - seems I was right on the button.

    Nobody will pay the fines and end up in court again.
    See what I did there :D


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    #319
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Nobody will pay the fines and end up in court again.
    See what I did there :D
    Yes. You ignored the fact that there will be no further court appearance necessary - the income attachment will not require one.


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    #320
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,837 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    dvpower wrote: »
    Yes. You ignored the fact that there will be no further court appearance necessary - the income attachment will not require one.

    Do you not have to agree for extra charges to be taken from your income?


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    #321
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    tayto lover wrote: »
    We will all end up sitting in the office of Mountjoy Prison for about 2 hours waiting to be told "go home your fine is now deemed to be paid as we have no room for you here". That is what's happening now as it stands.
    Really? I could have sworn Sean Quinn Jnr had to do his bit of porridge for his of 'aul contempt of court? :confused:

    Not to worry! I'm sure you have thought this whole thing through! :pac:


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    #322
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Hijpo wrote: »
    Do you not have to agree for extra charges to be taken from your income?
    No. That's a different thing. That's if you want the property tax to be deducted from income in the first instance.

    If you get fined and refuse to pay the fine, they can attach your earnings under the new Fines Bill.


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    #323
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    lugha wrote: »
    Really? I could have sworn Sean Quinn Jnr had to do his bit of porridge for his of 'aul contempt of court? :confused:

    Not to worry! I'm sure you have thought this whole thing through! :pac:

    Dry up Lugha lol.

    Comparing a Quinn, who defrauded the state I'm BILLIONS to a man refusing to pay a hundred euro service charge is ludicrous (even for you)

    Just when I thought you guys had reached the bottom. :pac:


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    #324
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    lugha wrote: »
    Really? I could have sworn Sean Quinn Jnr had to do his bit of porridge for his of 'aul contempt of court? :confused:

    Not to worry! I'm sure you have thought this whole thing through! :pac:

    Sean Quinn should be there like Seanie, Drumm, Fingers and probably a lot of politicians.
    They can't jail 700k non Property Tax payers. Have you not seen this --
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0501/1224315408098.html


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    #325
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    No. That's a different thing. That's if you want the property tax to be deducted from income in the first instance.

    If you get fined and refuse to pay the fine, they can attach your earnings under the new Fines Bill.

    The Govt has nothing to do with my pension and I don't get SW.


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    #326
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    If the Fines Act is passed before they start prosecuting, they won't need to jail anyone.


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    #327
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The Govt has nothing to do with my pension and I don't get SW.
    They can attach any income or asset you have, including your bank account.

    You'd could start putting your money in your mattress, but they can seize your mattress too.


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    #328
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,837 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    If the Fines Act is passed before they start prosecuting, they won't need to jail anyone.

    and if they spread the burden evenly ad fairly none of this would have taken up 3 threads


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    #329
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    If the Fines Act is passed before they start prosecuting, they won't need to jail anyone.

    They can do whatever they like I certainly will not pay a tax on MY home or a fine. A home I paid for myself and also paid stamp duty on. We seem to have gone full circle now.


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    #330
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    They can do whatever they like I certainly will not pay a tax on MY home or a fine. A home I paid for myself and also paid stamp duty on. We seem to have gone full circle now.
    You still don't seem to get it.
    They will just take it from you along with fines and costs. You do not have a choice in the matter.

    You may not willingly pay it, but you will pay it.


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    #331
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    View wrote: »
    Given the number of people in negative equity, it is an enormous assumption to make that a "high income" correlates with an "ability to pay", yet it still a case of "Whether ya have it or not, we want it".

    Either people in negative equity should have to pay little or no income tax or, for property tax, as currently we do for income tax, your "ability to pay" should be discounted when levying taxes.

    You could be in negative equity and be in a job earining €100,000. The negative equity would only worry me if I ever went to sell my house, and, as I pointed out once or twice on the thread, my house is a home for me and my family, so this is where we will be for life.


This discussion has been closed.
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