Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

Unless 26 backbenchers joined with all the opposition and voted against the government.

... or pigs fly.

lugha

dvpower wrote: »

... or pigs fly.

Kamikaze pigs at that, with an inkling for self-destruction!

Bishop_Donal

bgrizzley wrote: »

thats good, because i am the god that provides those services to my self and my family, i pipe in the water, pipe out the sh1t, pay for my bins and use a Kindle to read. when we go for a walk its a nice stroll down my neighbours field, which he maintains, no help from the LA. when i go to the shop its in the car i provide and pay for privately...

Parks, libraries, flouridated water, and public sewers and buses, i subsidise them for you BD, and do you know what, you are welcome to my help anytime!!;)

Thanks a mill. It's nice that you have that comfort. Not too many like you (as a fair share of Irish find when they deduct their welfare freebies from the Tax they actually contribute, they find that they get rather than give).

You should try driving on a road sometime (rather than down your neighbours field). It's quite an experience.

Also, there's a new thing called electricity. You'd be able to post many more thoughts if you didn't have to pedal so hard to keep the computer going. Be very careful though as it's dangerous if you stick your fingers in the socket.

Can I also recommend educating your children? It could really open up their eyes and they might get more out of life than you.

Finally, we also have wonderful things like Guards / Hospital Services / Emergency Services. They function to a greater or lesser extent, but that's more related to the fact that certain people don't pay their share of the cost associated with them.

Ghandee

lugha wrote: »

Spurious argument. Given the diversity of political parties we have and the almost inevitability that any government will be a coalition one, 36% support for the biggest party is close to the maximum you are ever likely to see.

I don't think Labour were ever deluded about what the impact on their support would be when the elected to go into government.

But the good news is when FF and SF do get into government, they can repeal all of these fascist laws that FG introduced, such as property tax.



If they choose to. :pac:

I get what your saying ref the numerous parties Lugha, but its not a spurious argument that this current coalition are attempting to implement a highly unpopular tax that the majority of voters would not/do not wish to see implemented.

Lord knows, even the FG party were anti property tax right up until they got elected.

darkhorse

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

What kind of a society brings a 70yo man to crying on the radio? Probably the same kind of society who listen to Joe Duffy. If no-one listened to the w*nk he goes on with, he'd soon disappear & we wouldn't have a forum for 70yo men with five kids (aged 5 to whatever) to be crying on radio.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I'm sensitive to people who act responsibly, pay their dues and make a contribution to society.

So it would appear from yer above post.

Bishop_Donal

Irrespective of whether you are pro or anti LPT, how do you see the next election work out?

Lots of anti FG / Labour comment here. Is the Legacy FF hatred diminishing or is everyone now going to vote Independent or Sinn Fein?:D

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

I get what your saying ref the numerous parties Lugha, but its not a spurious argument that this current coalition are attempting to implement a highly unpopular tax that the majority of voters would not/do not wish to see implemented.

But the same could be said about any harsh measure that they undertook.

Do you think if there was a popular vote on cutting child benefit or hiking any tax that it would pass? Possibly yes if the majority were unaffected.

The system we have (and many states have) is to re-new their authority every 4-5 years. if the people are not happy with their management in its totality, they can refuse to re-new. It is not feasible (or workable) to expect that every government decision will command popular support.

Bishop_Donal

darkhorse wrote: »

So it would appear from yer above post.

I'll admit I find it hard to be sensitive to Joe Duffy alright. I'll whip myself over that one tonight.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Thanks a mill. It's nice that you have that comfort. Not too many like you (as a fair share of Irish find when they deduct their welfare freebies from the Tax they actually contribute, they find that they get rather than give).

You should try driving on a road sometime (rather than down your neighbours field). It's quite an experience.

Also, there's a new thing called electricity. You'd be able to post many more thoughts if you didn't have to pedal so hard to keep the computer going. Be very careful though as it's dangerous if you stick your fingers in the socket.

Can I also recommend educating your children? It could really open up their eyes and they might get more out of life than you.

Finally, we also have wonderful things like Guards / Hospital Services / Emergency Services. They function to a greater or lesser extent, but that's more related to the fact that certain people don't pay their share of the cost associated with them.

Couple of problems with this post.

First off, he stated he strolled down his neighbours field, not drove.;)

Secondly, you make an excellent point regarding our emergency services and hospitals.
Confusing part for me is that neither are free to use, (A&E charges, ambulance/fire service call out fees) thankfully I have never had much reason to acquire either service recently either (I hear they're not exactly cheap)

darkhorse

bgrizzley wrote: »

Fine Gael want to take your home!!!

They can have it, bg, along with the mortgage. Suit me fine.

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

Couple of problems with this post.

First off, he stated he strolled down his neighbours field, not drove.;)

Secondly, you make an excellent point regarding our emergency services and hospitals.
Confusing part for me is that neither are free to use, (A&E charges, ambulance/fire service call out fees) thankfully I have never had much reason to acquire either service recently either (I hear they're not exactly cheap)

Doesn't take from the fact that he should have a shot at using a road sometime though. They really are astonishing.

As for your second response, if you think that a couple of hundred euro will keep your emergency services on standby (particularly based on your own low level usage of same, coupled with walking across the fields to get to the emergency) I'd have to say you are in dream land.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

You're defending exorbitant fees charged by the elites at RTE. Paid for by tax payers.

When did I defend anyone charging exorbitant fees such as fees charged by RTE or anyone else for that matter.

bgrizzley

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Thanks a mill. It's nice that you have that comfort. Not too many like you (as a fair share of Irish find when they deduct their welfare freebies from the Tax they actually contribute, they find that they get rather than give).

You should try driving on a road sometime (rather than down your neighbours field). It's quite an experience.

Also, there's a new thing called electricity. You'd be able to post many more thoughts if you didn't have to pedal so hard to keep the computer going. Be very careful though as it's dangerous if you stick your fingers in the socket.

Can I also recommend educating your children? It could really open up their eyes and they might get more out of life than you.

Finally, we also have wonderful things like Guards / Hospital Services / Emergency Services. They function to a greater or lesser extent, but that's more related to the fact that certain people don't pay their share of the cost associated with them.

You are very welcome Donal!!!!

but im lost???? im not on welfare freebies??? care to explain?

you should also read post completely before replying, i said i walk down the field(not drive) (as opposed to these famous parks my taxes subsidise)

everything you list is either payed for by a myriad of direct and indirect taxes or else has nothing to do with the LA.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Doesn't take from the fact that he should have a shot at using a road sometime though. They really are astonishing.

As for your second response, if you think that a couple of hundred euro will keep your emergency services on standby (particularly based on your own low level usage of same, coupled with walking across the fields to get to the emergency) I'd have to say you are in dream land.

On the road issue.

VRT, NCT's, tolls, tax on fuel, vat on that, motor tax..........


And according to Leo, we'd still be required to fill in our own potholes.

What's all those taxes and govt charges being used for?

dxhound2005

dvpower wrote: »

Some people got brought to court. They are due up again any day now.

On the 20th in Westport, multiple property owners.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16455:countrys-first-household-charge-cases-appear-before-westport-court&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

I wonder if their reasons for not paying will include any of the ones which people here use. Which I can't see standing up in court.

I built/bought my own house
Bankers and bondholders
The CPA
The penalty points story
Mrs Gilmore's wages

And there are plenty more

If they are genuinely unable to pay, I would criticise Mayo Co Co for picking them for prosecution when there must be plenty of Won't Pay types. If they are claiming inability to pay I would think that they would have to provide a statement of means. And any advisers helping them would need to be careful not to commit an offence themselves since it is illegal for solicitors, accountants etc to facilitate the commission of a crime like providing a false statement of means.

Anyone here from Mayo know if they have paid up since the first court appearance?

bgrizzley

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Doesn't take from the fact that he should have a shot at using a road sometime though. They really are astonishing.

As for your second response, if you think that a couple of hundred euro will keep your emergency services on standby (particularly based on your own low level usage of same, coupled with walking across the fields to get to the emergency) I'd have to say you are in dream land.

i didnt specify road in reply because you know as well as i do that the irish motorist pays above and beyond what it costs to run the roads. i pay all my car associated taxes, so i wont apologise to anyone for using the road.

anyway, after this week dont i have to repair them myself?:pac::pac::pac::pac:



Edit
im only 10 mins behind you Ghandee, too much Weihenstephaner hefeweissbier dunkel

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

On the 20th in Westport, multiple property owners.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16455:countrys-first-household-charge-cases-appear-before-westport-court&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

I wonder if their reasons for not paying will include any of the ones which people here use. Which I can't see standing up in court.

I built/bought my own house
Bankers and bondholders
The CPA
The penalty points story
Mrs Gilmore's wages

And there are plenty more

If they are genuinely unable to pay, I would criticise Mayo Co Co for picking them for prosecution when there must be plenty of Won't Pay types. If they are claiming inability to pay I would think that they would have to provide a statement of means. And any advisers helping them would need to be careful not to commit an offence themselves since it is illegal for solicitors, accountants etc to facilitate the commission of a crime like providing a false statement of means.

Anyone here from Mayo know if they have paid up since the first court appearance?

Enda Kenny might.

(assuming he posts here )

Bishop_Donal

bgrizzley wrote: »

You are very welcome Donal!!!!

but im lost???? im not on welfare freebies??? care to explain?

I think you should read my post completely. I think I said you are in the minority? You are obviously one of the high earners whose tax exceeds you childrens allowance.

bgrizzley wrote: »

you should also read post completely before replying, i said i walk down the field(not drive) (as opposed to these famous parks my taxes subsidise)

Wrong inference on your part. All I said is you should try a road sometime.

bgrizzley wrote: »

everything you list is either paid for by a myriad of direct and indirect taxes or else has nothing to do with the LA.

Incorrect.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

Do you normally pay for your sex?

I dont, but I am far better looking than yer man, I cant see any woman giving to him for nuffin.

lugha

bgrizzley wrote: »

anyway, after this week dont i have to repair them myself?:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Just on this point. One of the gripes the no side have about the property tax relates to the possibility that tax raised in a region may be spent in another (nothing odd about that I would say, urban areas always in effect subsidised more rural ones)

However, if you do take a dim view of such a state of affairs, them I would have thought that the alternative would be to require some to make additional contributions for services in their area if council budgets did not cover the cost. (And anyone who grew up in a rural area with minor roads will know that the money rarely runs far enough to maintain the lesser roads properly).

And if you must pay extra in your area and if it is a choice between the council deciding how it is spent or you dictating directly how it is to be spent then is the latter not more appealing?

bgrizzley

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I think you should read my post completely. I think I said you are in the minority? You are obviously one of the high earners whose tax exceeds you childrens allowance.



Wrong inference on your part. All I said is you should try a road sometime.



Incorrect.

Donal, i dont get the sense you are a rich dude any more than i am, so why do you beat yourself with this, "the state pays for us poor people" stick

We own Ireland, we own the state.

i am not very well off but we could probably do without Children allowance. And i've said before i wouldnt mind paying more tax(maybe not both at the same time though:D:D:D). i just dont like the control this government are trying to exert over my home.
i wont fall for their sh1t, you shouldnt either

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The nazi's were nothing on this lot...and I'm NOT being sarcastic!!!

Dictatorship HAS taken over!!!

This may pass as making sense in Donegal, I call it histrionics.

You do realize that the poster was speaking metaphorically? But, you cant deny that this government are inflicting massive pain and suffering on the most vunerable people in our society, unless you have been living in a cocoon.

Bishop_Donal

bgrizzley wrote: »

Donal, i dont get the sense you are a rich dude any more than i am, so why do you beat yourself with this, "the state pays for us poor people" stick

We own Ireland, we own the state.

i am not very well off but we could probably do without Children allowance. And i've said before i wouldnt mind paying more tax(maybe not both at the same time though:D:D:D). i just dont like the control this government are trying to exert over my home.
i wont fall for their sh1t, you shouldnt either

I guess you are dead right.

The only difference between us is how extra tax should be levied. In our hearts we all know that we can't keep borrowing indefinitely. Forget Bank debt. I am only referring to day to day expenditure.

Resolving the collective costs (of our state) will take time. That's regrettable, but a fact of life. Hence increased taxes have to happen.

I strongly oppose the implementation of more tax / charges / levies on Labour. I strongly believe we should foster and encourage effort. The only other option which will give a broad enough spread is tax on wealth / property. The government have already hit pensions > houses are the next major category.

That is why I support the imposition of this tax. It's material, broad based, has a big yield and should be cheap to collect.

In the end of the day this whole discussion is irrelevant now. It's here and it is here to stay. I strongly believe that people should comply (so as to minimise unnecessary penalties / interest) and also because I fundamentally believe the Revenue will be good at collecting this one!!!

If people really don't like it, they should change the govt at the next election, but I really can't see a combo of Sinn fein / Independents controlling the next daii. It's seems Irish memories are a hell of a lot better when it comes to Sinn Fein than Fianna Fail?

darkhorse

starbelgrade wrote: »

Joe Duffy is a League of Ireland presenter on Premiership wages. It's the equivalent of a Sligo Rovers player being paid the wages of Wayne Rooney.

Yer knowledgable on premiership wages, then. So, can ya name a premiership player that would accept 400k a year.

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

Yer knowledgable on premiership wages, then. So, can ya name a premiership player that would accept 400k a year.

darkhorse wrote: »

You do realize that the poster was speaking metaphorically?

.

K-9

bgrizzley wrote: »

you should read my post, you are more or less repeating what i said...

I did, a couple of times, no mention of the welfare budget which eats up over 60% of our tax revenue. How could anybody think we pay for our services when 60% of our tax revenues go on welfare?

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you think that a tax which will have taken €100 between last January and next July from private householders can be equated with what the Nazis did then I will abandon any hope of a sensible discussion with you.

Will I take this post of yours to mean that as far as you are aware, the overall take will be €100 and thats the end of it. I really think that you should read about whats going on in the country, and just what the government is doing here.

Ghandee

This makes interesting reading.

They're all hungry hoors. Each and every one of them, all parties.:cool:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AlxJrxiwB44XdGJZcG0tUVI2aWVGZzdkUThWZG1FTHc#gid=0

darkhorse

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

People (collectively) need to pay more if we want to maintain services. It's almost inevitable that people need to see their local infrastructure fall apart before they will consent to pay more.

Do ya mean by that we should pay them everything we have, cause thats the way yer coming across constantly on this thread.

Ghandee

K-9 wrote: »

I did, a couple of times, no mention of the welfare budget which eats up over 60% of our tax revenue. How could anybody think we pay for our services when 60% of our tax revenues go on welfare?

Speaking of welfare, do we still pay for kids that are not and ofttimes have not ever set foot in this country?

Genuine question.Pp