Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Bullseye1

You make getting elected sound easy. Your going up against established parties and bigger budgets than most individuals can afford. And even some of the independants have a history of being member of established parties. Plus getting your name on the ballet paper isn't an easy task either.

bgrizzley

forget about voting, theres more to this corrupt system than a few gombeens. if you really want to hurt them use peaceful civil disobediance like not paying the HHC.
Once the gravy has been cut off the snouts will come out of the trough, and we might see some honesty in politics.

Dont register, dont pay!

Bullseye1

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Well you could argue that someone who votes for a member of a party would expect them to tow the party line.

If you want an elected representative that doesn't have to adhere to a whip, then vote for an independent.

It will be interesting to see how that pans out in the upcoming legislation on abortion.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

He didn't get booted out by the voters though did he?

You've a seriously warped idea of democracy.

The voters voted him in to implement the pre-election promises he made, when he seen labour and Gilmor€ and Rabbit€ gloat about it (sure that's what you do in an election) he tried to right a wrong and was punished for it.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

If enough people like Keaveney's stance, they should re-elect him and try and put more people who share his views into the Dail, no?

When should they do that?

Next elections, after March when the pensions for life are secured?

Hijpo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Well there are consequences. They're kicked out of government and possibly lose their seat.

What are you saying here? That there is not one single person in the country that can be trusted in government?

the only people that suffer consequences are
1) the citizens that got lured in by lies, a manifesto the government knew could not be achieved. Coniving, deceit, any other words you can use to describe a bunch of chancers with no interest in Ireland and its people, just themselfs and how well they can do out of there term financially, "going forward".

2) Anyone in government who shows a difference of opinion, democracy lol, if they had there way id say anyone voting against them would be shot in the face.

Slick50

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Of course you're not. What I'm saying is that anyone can be a politician. Don't like the current batch, vote them out and find some others. Or stand yourself.

And what I'm saying is there should be consequences for breaking their promise.... like financial penalties, they'd think long and hard then I'd say.

I don't have the finances to launch any kind of campaign, or public profile to have any chance, or desire.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Well you could argue that someone who votes for a member of a party would expect them to tow the party line.

Even though the party line has "changed" from the one he was elected on?

Chips Lovell

Bullseye1 wrote: »

You make getting elected sound easy. Your going up against established parties and bigger budgets than most individuals can afford. And even some of the independants have a history of being member of established parties. Plus getting your name on the ballet paper isn't an easy task either.

All you need is €500 or 30 signatures. But no, it's not easy. You've got to go out and raise money for your campaign, convince enough people to not only vote for you but to also give you money. But that's where all political parties started out. They didn't just spring up overnight and, during elections, rely on a whole host of unpaid volunteers to do their donkey work.

Hijpo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

He didn't get booted out by the voters though did he?

If enough people like Keaveney's stance, they should re-elect him and try and put more people who share his views into the Dail, no?

Why would they take his stance after witnessing what happend to him?

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

forget about voting, theres more to this corrupt system than a few gombeens. if you really want to hurt them use peaceful civil disobediance like not paying the HHC.
Once the gravy has been cut off the snouts will come out of the trough, and we might see some honesty in politics.

Dont register, dont pay!

Anyone with a private house reading this invitation to keep breaking the law please realise that this individual will not be around to pick up the bill when you have to pay.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

The voters voted him in to implement the pre-election promises he made, when he seen labour and Gilmor€ and Rabbit€ gloat about it (sure that's what you do in an election) he tried to right a wrong and was punished for it.

Yes and if you're right about this, Gilmore and Rabitte will get the boot at the next election and Keaveney will be re-elected. That's democracy for you.

Hijpo wrote: »

Why would they take his stance after witnessing what happend to him?

Don't you want more principled people in the Dail? Don't you believe that enough of your fellow citizens do too? If that's the case, then why wouldn't other politicians take his stance, since people will chose them ahead of the less principled ones.

Hijpo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

All you need is €500 or 30 signatures. But no, it's not easy. You've got to go out and raise money for your campaign, convince enough people to not only vote for you but to also give you money. But that's where all political parties started out. They didn't just spring up overnight and, during elections, rely on a whole host of unpaid volunteers to do their donkey work.

Or you could sweet talk a crooked banker and promise him an oul back scratch if he gives you a handy loan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Anyone with a private house reading this invitation to keep breaking the law please realise that this individual will not be around to pick up the bill when you have to pay.

For anyone with a private house reading dxhound2005 warnings about picking up bills, be aware that you are already being forced to pick up a bill that you didnt run up. Imagine putting a price on your single home that you worked hard to obtain to shelter and raise your family in, then paying EVERY year for the right to live in your own home. A price by the way nobody knows how much it will be, its financial suicide. Imagine trying to budget your household expenses without knowing what the expenditure will be.

Chips Lovell

Hijpo wrote: »

Or you could sweet talk a crooked banker and promise him an oul back scratch if he gives you a handy loan

You could try that too, but I don't think that would make you the kind of TD that people are looking for on here.

Hijpo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Yes and if you're right about this, Gilmore and Rabitte will get the boot at the next election and Keaveney will be re-elected. That's democracy for you.



Don't you want more principled people in the Dail? Don't you believe that enough of your fellow citizens do too? If that's the case, then why wouldn't other politicians take his stance, since people will chose them ahead of the less principled ones.

maybe the people of the dail know that the average joe that think hes making a difference by voting a new party in, actually have no power at all.

You could try that too, but I don't think that would make you the kind of TD that people are looking for on here.

Would it make the kind of TD that you want in the Dail?

Chips Lovell

Hijpo wrote: »

Would it make the kind of TD that you want in the Dail?

Nope

DoesNotCompute

Hijpo wrote: »

Imagine trying to budget your household expenses without knowing what the expenditure will be.

So you're refusing to pay the HHC because you didn't see it coming? Sure you could make the same argument about any potential tax that the government *may* at some point in the future, decide to implement.

Sure they might decide to put a tax on people blowing hot air, then the anti-HHC lot would be royally screwed. Try budgetting for that.

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

Or you could sweet talk a crooked banker and promise him an oul back scratch if he gives you a handy loan



For anyone with a private house reading dxhound2005 warnings about picking up bills, be aware that you are already being forced to pick up a bill that you didnt run up. Imagine putting a price on your single home that you worked hard to obtain to shelter and raise your family in, then paying EVERY year for the right to live in your own home. A price by the way nobody knows how much it will be, its financial suicide. Imagine trying to budget your household expenses without knowing what the expenditure will be.

You don't have to imagine the next bit. If you don't pay by next July the €100 will have turned into €200, a charge on the deeds of your property. And the people telling you to break the law can't do anything about that and they will not be paying your liabilities.

Ghandee

It seems to be a common trait among the yes guys..

Sneering at someones budgetary woes while they sit back on their increments.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Anyone with a private house reading this invitation to keep breaking the law please realise that this individual will not be around to pick up the bill when you have to pay.

Anyone reading this rather assumptive post try to remember all the bullyboy threats that have been made since the start of the HHC debacle.
None have come through!!!!

Dont register Dont pay!!!

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

Anyone reading this rather assumptive post try to remember all the bullyboy threats that have been made since the start of the HHC debacle.
None have come through!!!!

Dont register Dont pay!!!

When the time comes to pay, this individual will not turn up at your door with the money.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When the time comes to pay, this individual will not turn up at your door with the money.

kinda like the clipboard wielding council workers we were promised...:D

DoesNotCompute

Ghandee wrote: »

It seems to be a common trait among the yes guys..

Despairing at someone's poor budgeting skills whilst they themselves have had their wages decreased multiple times in recent years, yet get on with it regardless.

FYP.

Ghandee

Number of years since introduction of HHC, = 1
Number of prosecutions (never mind successful ones) = O
Number of sanctions and threats carried out, = O

Hogan's full of hot air, he is not renowned for his compassion, if he could do something to non payers, he'd have did it by now.

I suppose we could count those as further broken promises though, something they are actually decent at.

Hijpo

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

So you're refusing to pay the HHC because you didn't see it coming? Sure you could make the same argument about any potential tax that the government *may* at some point in the future, decide to implement.

Sure they might decide to put a tax on people blowing hot air, then the anti-HHC lot would be royally screwed. Try budgetting for that.

On top of all the other reeasons i choose not to pay this is another one,
To pay you have to register (conveniently) if you register they have there database, when they have there database the charge you for living in your house that you bought with your money, they have said that it wont be increased for the duration of there term (yeah right, and the childrens allowance hasnt been touched, as promised) and if its not touched the councils then decide what the rate will be, it will more than likely go up, to what? nobody knows, will it be fixed? nobody knows, will there be a max it can rise to? nobody knows, will they take into account ability to pay? (so far they havent) nobody knows.

Iv never seen "???" in the debit column of a budget sheet, to freely put yourself in that position is stupid.
I saw it coming, but you see its like this:

A chap knocks on your door and says im coming back next week to take some money from you, you ask how much and he says its probably a tenner, you ask if thats for certain he shrugs and says could be, you ask will it stay at a tenner he says yes but gives you a wink and a smile, you ask what its for and he says this that and the other, you ask who else is contributing and he says 1.9million... or wait is it 1.7million im not sure, then he says its the law and laughs
if he called back next week for 15 would you give it to him?
if you would ill pm you my details ill happily take donations, its my law that i just made up because im stuck for a few bob

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

On top of all the other reeasons i choose not to pay this is another one,
To pay you have to register (conveniently) if you register they have there database, when they have there database the charge you for living in your house that you bought with your money, they have said that it wont be increased for the duration of there term (yeah right, and the childrens allowance hasnt been touched, as promised) and if its not touched the councils then decide what the rate will be, it will more than likely go up, to what? nobody knows, will it be fixed? nobody knows, will there be a max it can rise to? nobody knows, will they take into account ability to pay? (so far they havent) nobody knows.

Iv never seen "???" in the debit column of a budget sheet, to freely put yourself in that position is stupid.
I saw it coming, but you see its like this:

A chap knocks on your door and says im coming back next week to take some money from you, you ask how much and he says its probably a tenner, you ask if thats for certain he shrugs and says could be, you ask will it stay at a tenner he says yes but gives you a wink and a smile, you ask what its for and he says this that and the other, you ask who else is contributing and he says 1.9million... or wait is it 1.7million im not sure, then he says its the law and laughs
if he called back next week for 15 would you give it to him?
if you would ill pm you my details ill happily take donations, its my law that i just made up because im stuck for a few bob

You might be on the database already. Anyone who ever applied for mortgage interest relief would have given their name, address and PPS number to the authorities. These are the same details which were required to be given when paying the HHC. With the degree of data sharing and exchange which is provided for in the legislation it may be too late to avoid being on the database.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You might be on the database already. Anyone who ever applied for mortgage interest relief would have given their name, address and PPS number to the authorities. These are the same details which were required to be given when paying the HHC. With the degree of data sharing and exchange which is provided for in the legislation it may be too late to avoid being on the database.

waffle waffle waffle waffle and more bloody waffle

the yes side have named so many feckin databases that the government have access to to get there database set up that the entire HHC exercise was a complete waste of time, money, effort and heartache for the people who got letters to family members who passed away or old people who had already paid then got a reminder letter to say they hadnt (imagine if it was your parent or grand parent that had paid and got a letter to say they hadnt and they started to worry that they may be getting dementia or alzheimer's) scary stuff for those people.

Seems to me its more inefficiency on the public sector/government/LA or whoever it was thats in charge of compiling this database.
Complete and utter waste in its entirety.

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

waffle waffle waffle waffle and more bloody waffle

the yes side have named so many feckin databases that the government have access to to get there database set up that the entire HHC exercise was a complete waste of time, money, effort and heartache for the people who got letters to family members who passed away or old people who had already paid then got a reminder letter to say they hadnt (imagine if it was your parent or grand parent that had paid and got a letter to say they hadnt and they started to worry that they may be getting dementia or alzheimer's) scary stuff for those people.

Seems to me its more inefficiency on the public sector/government/LA or whoever it was thats in charge of compiling this database.
Complete and utter waste in its entirety.

It has managed to bring in over €113 million with more to come so I think your judgement of it is harsh given that it is a self registration system. And the ironic thing is that the people paying now and the ones who will eventually pay have just managed to make themselves poorer than necessary.

I got a receipt when I paid in cash and another one in the post afterwards. I never got any follow up demand and I don't know of anyone who did after paying or any letters to dead people belonging to me. Stuff about old people and dementia is just the same nonsense that we had before on here.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It has managed to bring in over €113 million with more to come so I think your judgement of it is harsh given that it is a self registration system. And the ironic thing is that the people paying now and the ones who will eventually pay have just managed to make themselves poorer than necessary.

I got a receipt when I paid in cash and another one in the post afterwards. I never got any follow up demand and I don't know of anyone who did after paying or any letters to dead people belonging to me. Stuff about old people and dementia is just the same nonsense that we had before on here.

You are taking the piss now, its been on the radio and everything about people that have been dead 20 odd years getting letters aswell as old people getting letters asking them to give this number a ring to let us know.

No i dont think my words are harsh at all, if so many databases were so easily accessable why the need for 100 quid and self registration?
Must have been people doing it for the sake of something to do because it really has been a half arsed attempt at it.

Have the had a meeting to get there story straight about whether you can pay at the post office or not?
Shower of incompetent Arse holse

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

You are taking the piss now, its been on the radio and everything about people that have been dead 20 odd years getting letters aswell as old people getting letters asking them to give this number a ring to let us know.

No i dont think my words are harsh at all, if so many databases were so easily accessable why the need for 100 quid and self registration?
Must have been people doing it for the sake of something to do because it really has been a half arsed attempt at it.

Have the had a meeting to get there story straight about whether you can pay at the post office or not?
Shower of incompetent Arse holse

I think there was some discussion about being able to pay at the Post Office but I don't know if it came to anything. There will be an option to pay the LPT by deduction from wages so that might suit some people better.

There was no database needed for property tax since 1977 until now so I don't regard it as incompetence on the part of anybody if one couldn't be provided at the drop of a hat. The million or so people like me who volunteered will undoubetedly make it easier for the Revenue Commissioners to go after the rest and get the database on a solid footing over the next while. And in the long run defying the law won't be a good idea.

Izzy Skint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think there was some discussion about being able to pay at the Post Office but I don't know if it came to anything. There will be an option to pay the LPT by deduction from wages so that might suit some people better.

There was no database needed for property tax since 1977 until now so I don't regard it as incompetence on the part of anybody if one couldn't be provided at the drop of a hat. The million or so people like me who volunteered will undoubetedly make it easier for the Revenue Commissioners to go after the rest and get the database on a solid footing over the next while. And in the long run defying the law won't be a good idea.

Nevertheless, I think I will take my chances and NOT PAY !!....this shower of cnuts will not be in power for very much longer

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think there was some discussion about being able to pay at the Post Office but I don't know if it came to anything. There will be an option to pay the LPT by deduction from wages so that might suit some people better.

There was no database needed for property tax since 1977 until now so I don't regard it as incompetence on the part of anybody if one couldn't be provided at the drop of a hat. The million or so people like me who volunteered will undoubetedly make it easier for the Revenue Commissioners to go after the rest and get the database on a solid footing over the next while. And in the long run defying the law won't be a good idea.

yeah they cant even give a straight answer as to where you can pay the feckin thing, in fairness that should be sorted from the off and not still debatable months into collection.

Since 1977, so how many databases are up and running since 1977 that they can cast there beady little rodent eyes upon to get there database. The yes side have listed atleast 4 that they can grab the details from but they probably didnt want to do that work so they let the people in the houses do it themselfs and charged them 100 quid, which was probably to go towards some kind of bonus for the clowns who put the ****ty database together.

Deduction from wages my arse, its not about how easy it is to get the money to them. Its about having it to give to them, its about being able to budget properly to raise the amount if possible to give to them, its about being in receipt of services WORTH the money and above all everyone who avails of the services for pays for the services.