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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

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    #4262
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Jez so it does not matter if they are qualified. Next you will be saying its okay if a Doctor is not a doctor its the law. Its this blind attitude is why this country is ****ed. If your not prepared to question your government what is the point.


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    #4263
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Saved you the bother Donal.;)

    Cheers Ghandee, when did I say that? When I click to go to the original post it just brings me to my last one. :confused:


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    #4264
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Knowing Irish politics there is every chance the property tax could be scrapped if the opposition run on that platform to remove if they got re-elected.

    Sure didn't many of the pro side say that if your not happy wih it vote for another party to remove it. You cannot have it both ways.

    What is your opinion on a organisation, revenue, with no expertise sending out valuation letters?

    I thought Revenue are only going to be collecting the money, the Government have decided on the bands of Property Tax and its up to the owner to decide on the value of thier house and fit it into the relevant band.

    Now I am sure if someone wants to take the p1ss Revenue will get a valuation carried out on the property and use this as the real value and then charge the owner the valuation fee if their happens to be a discrepancy between the actual value and the one the owner decided to take the p1ss over.


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    #4265
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I thought Revenue are only going to be collecting the money, the Government have decided on the bands of Property Tax and its up to the owner to decide on the value of thier house and fit it into the relevant band.

    Now I am sure if someone wants to take the p1ss Revenue will get a valuation carried out on the property and use this as the real value and then charge the owner the valuation fee if their happens to be a discrepancy between the actual value and the one the owner decided to take the p1ss over.

    According to reports, Revenue will send you a value "THEY" think your house is worth. If you believe they are off the mark and send in your own valuation you leave yourself open to a review and inspection. IF you employ a VALUER then Revenue will not question the value.

    What is Phil Hogan's profession again?

    Oh and what if Revenue are off the mark and the Valuation carried out by the Valuer is correct can the householder put the cost of having the valuation carried out against his property tax bill? I bet not. No doubt you have no problem with that either.


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    #4266
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    'revenue raising exercise'


    For Hogan and his valuers!

    Its literally a win win situation for Phil. ;)


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    #4267
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    its a shame that no matter how obvious it is, how clearly its explained and even with the dots joined for them the yes people will still rubbish it.


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    #4268
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    According to reports, Revenue will send you a value "THEY" think your house is worth. If you believe they are off the mark and send in your own valuation you leave yourself open to a review and inspection. IF you employ a VALUER then Revenue will not question the value.

    What is Phil Hogan's profession again?

    Oh and what if Revenue are off the mark and the Valuation carried out by the Valuer is correct can the householder put the cost of having the valuation carried out against his property tax bill? I bet not. No doubt you have no problem with that either.

    I havent seen anything saying Revenue will send me a valuation, I thought that I decide which band to put my house in and pay the corresponding amount then.

    Well if you decide to hire a valuer yourself you are deciding to pay the fee for this, so why would Revenue offset this amount against your property tax? Its not like you have paid Revenue to value it and its not as if you had to pay a valuer, as you decided to get it valued yourself and therefore pay for the valuation yourself.


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    #4269
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I havent seen anything saying Revenue will send me a valuation...

    They will:
    The Revenue Commissioners will provide indicative property values that liable persons can rely on to assess the valuation band for their property. Alternatively, a liable person can self-assess or use a competent valuer. Where the Revenue indicative value is selected, or where certain procedures (such as engaging a professional valuer) which will be published in guidelines or regulations, are followed by liable persons, property valuations will not be challenged by the Revenue Commissioners. This, and the 3-year valuation date, will provide certainty for liable persons in relation to valuation.


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    #4270
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I havent seen anything saying Revenue will send me a valuation, I thought that I decide which band to put my house in and pay the corresponding amount then.

    Well if you decide to hire a valuer yourself you are deciding to pay the fee for this, so why would Revenue offset this amount against your property tax? Its not like you have paid Revenue to value it and its not as if you had to pay a valuer, as you decided to get it valued yourself and therefore pay for the valuation yourself.

    Read post immediately below yours and then come back to me.


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    #4271
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    They will:

    But they wont send me an actual valuation by the looks of that they will send me guidelines to be used when deciding which valuation band to put my property into.


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    #4272
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Read post immediately below yours and then come back to me.

    Read and responded to


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    #4273
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I read "indicative property value" as being their assessment for the purposes of the tax. That seems to be the way most of the media are reading it too.


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    #4274
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Have you not been listening to the news? It has been stated that they will send you an actual valuation.


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    #4275
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Have you not been listening to the news? It has been stated that they will send you an actual valuation.

    Well based on the paragraph I just read I would interpret it as them sending me guidelines to be used when self-valuing my property.


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    #4276
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Well based on the paragraph I just read I would interpret it as them sending me guidelines to be used when self-valuing my property.

    Fair enough. I look forward to hearing from you when you get your valuation and its above what the house is worth.:p


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    #4277
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    I read "indicative property value" as being their assessment for the purposes of the tax. That seems to be the way most of the media are reading it too.

    I would see it as indicative property value being something like the value of houses in this area are generally €200k which is an indicative value or something along the lines of a 4 bed in the area on 1 acres indicative value is €230k.

    And its these that "liable persons can rely on to assess the valuation band for their property".

    Sentence in bold above makes me believe that liable persons are responsible for the valuation and not the Revenue.


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    #4278
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    THE Revenue will tell every homeowner in the country how much it thinks their home is worth -- and how much they should pay in property tax -- in letters to be distributed within weeks.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/revenue-to-decide-value-of-homes-for-property-tax-3343775.html


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    #4279
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Fair enough. I look forward to hearing from you when you get your valuation and its above what the house is worth.:p

    Given that I bought my house two years ago I have a pretty good indication of the value, and the fact I paid an amount that is close to the bottom of one of the bands they will have to up their value by over €40k to make me pay more than what I believe I should be paying. So no not too worried about that.


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    #4280
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/revenue-to-decide-value-of-homes-for-property-tax-3343775.html

    By providing indicative values for people to self value their properties.


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    #4281
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I would see it as indicative property value being something like the value of houses in this area are generally €200k which is an indicative value or something along the lines of a 4 bed in the area on 1 acres indicative value is €230k.

    Are we kind of getting into semantics here a bit? Given that the tax will be band based, it matters little if you get a letter saying "we believe your house is worth €176,000" or get one saying "we value your house at between €150,000 and €200,000". Either way, you're paying the same tax.


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    #4282
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Experts warn Revenue home values may be 'wildly wrong'

    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/experts-warn-revenue-home-values-may-be-wildly-wrong-3346463.html
    "Revenue will be taking a stab at valuations and then seeing if people contest it. They'll be effectively groping in the dark. We will hear horror stories of small houses being valued as much larger houses."

    The Endgame.
    Mr Lyons said the Revenue has been handed an impossible task, and insists professional valuations are the only way to get the right information.


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    #4283
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    Are we kind of getting into semantics here a bit? Given that the tax will be band based, it matters little if you get a letter saying "we believe your house is worth €176,000" or get one saying "we value your house at between €150,000 and €200,000". Either way, you're paying the same tax.

    Exactly, but I dont think the Revenue are going to be valuing every property in the country individually, they will simply create guidelines and either apply these themselves or tell us how to apply them ourselves, either way we will most likely be paying the same tax


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    #4284
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/experts-warn-revenue-home-values-may-be-wildly-wrong-3346463.html



    The Endgame.

    Well sure it will be pot luck for some then but those that want to contest it can decide if they want to pay a valuer or not in order to contest it.


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    #4285
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Well sure it will be pot luck for some then but those that want to contest it can decide if they want to pay a valuer or not in order to contest it.

    That is the point you have an organisation who have no idea about property values responsible for giving property values. Only in Ireland would this be considered acceptable.

    If you disagree and send in a value you think its worth Revenue can employ a valuer and send you the bill. But if you turn the tables you have no chance of remuneration.


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    #4286
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Well sure it will be pot luck for some then but those that want to contest it can decide if they want to pay a valuer or not in order to contest it.

    'some' being the ones already registered, and whose name will appear on the letter as opposed to those who refused to register getting the generic 'dear homeowner'?

    Is that what you mean?

    Great way to utilise our revenue resources.....


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    #4287
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    That is the point you have an organisation who have no idea about property values responsible for giving property values. Only in Ireland would this be considered acceptable.

    If you disagree and send in a value you think its worth Revenue can employ a valuer and send you the bill. But if you turn the tables you have no chance of remuneration.

    Well it is utterly stupid asking Revenue to value properties as this isnt something they will have done before, hence my assumption that they will provide broad guidelines for us to decide how much its worth, guidelines like area, sq foot, bedrooms, bathrooms, land area and whatever else.

    I havent given it much thought as it will be pretty simple for them to value my house, its on the property price register and I am in receipt of TRS so they can get the purchase price of my property from the register and they can get the mortgage amount using the TRS.


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    #4288
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »
    'some' being the ones already registered, and whose name will appear on the letter as opposed to those who refused to register getting the generic 'dear homeowner'?

    Is that what you mean?

    Great way to utilise our revenue resources.....


    Arent the dear homeowner letters being issued because people havent registered and its these people wasting the revenues resources costing every tax payer in the country money. :P


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    #4289
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Arent the dear homeowner letters being issued because people havent registered and its these people wasting the revenues resources costing every tax payer in the country money. :P

    I suppose we can also blame the people deceased years, on getting letters also, for wasting revenue resources.


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    #4290
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Arent the dear homeowner letters being issued because people havent registered and its these people wasting the revenues resources costing every tax payer in the country money. :P

    So 'doing nothing' is effective?

    It'll delay them by a sufficient enough time for the next general election to roll around?

    700,000 people, how many a year to track?


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    #4291
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Ghandee wrote: »

    So 'doing nothing' is effective?

    It'll delay them by a sufficient enough time for the next general election to roll around?

    700,000 people, how many a year to track?

    Don't think it'll delay them long enough for the next govt to scrap it


This discussion has been closed.
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