Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

She will not do anything for the likes of you when the Revenue come calling.

jaysus DX that gave me the shivers, you make 'em sound like the Mafia...

Le_Dieux

bgrizzley wrote: »

jaysus DX that gave me the shivers, you make 'em sound like the Mafia...

OR................Noonan/BFP in disguise throwing their threats around.

squod

So, whats the story now. I haven't been following this thread for a long time. Are people actually going to pay this thing?

Don't you have to opt in to pay through your wages?
What about people who are off the radar? ?is someone going to check everyone has paid and not just pick at the low hanging fruit?

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

She has form here, earlier in the thread the anti side tried to make us believe that her election poster from the 1990's was actually from 2011.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/property-tax-is-unfair-and-inequitable-leaflet-from-olivia-mitchell-fine-gael-dublin-south/

So you can't accuse her of not opening her gob before but Enda has moved on and she hasn't. Or as you say the real reason just like Shortall and Keavney is that she needs to make the right noises to her electors, in her case in places like Foxrock. Unlike leafy South Belfast where a house worth millions pays the same as one worth £400,000 (the maximum cap) for the same services here the rate actually increases for houses over €1m with no cap.

But it doesn't matter, it is just the usual stuff from the Sunday papers and will be forgotten in a week. She will not do anything for the likes of you when the Revenue come calling.

What services does the house in leafy Belfast receive in return for payment of their rates?


What services will a homeowner in Foxrock receive for paying their property tax?


Thought so.


As for the revenue calling, they can call away to my home, I've nothing to hide.

HabeasCorpus

Is there any organised group lobbying against this taxation of a person's home in particular? Really it will take marching and a show of force. It is coming to that time now. I have had enough. We have handed our power over to those who instead of leading, legislating for our welfare, are just abusing the Irish people.

It isn't enough to complain and say one party is as bad as the other, the situation is serious. A lot of people are on the edge. In my area alone, there is a steady increase in suicide over the past few years, especially unemployed men. There is real hardship, desperation and suffering. We need dynamic intelligent people in the Dail. We need to shift those supporting unfair taxation, the squandering of the tax received, those who are directly benefiting from it. The Dail members will not stand by household charges, corruption in the system etc., if we en masse let them know we will remove our support over these matters. Colm Keaveney is an example of this.

Le_Dieux

HabeasCorpus wrote: »

Is there any organised group lobbying against this taxation of a person's home in particular? Really it will take marching and a show of force. It is coming to that time now. I have had enough. We have handed our power over to those who instead of leading, legislating for our welfare, are just abusing the Irish people.

It isn't enough to complain and say one party is as bad as the other, the situation is serious. A lot of people are on the edge. In my area alone, there is a steady increase in suicide over the past few years, especially unemployed men. There is real hardship, desperation and suffering. We need dynamic intelligent people in the Dail. We need to shift those supporting unfair taxation, the squandering of the tax received, those who are directly benefiting from it. The Dail members will not stand by household charges, corruption in the system etc., if we en masse let them know we will remove our support over these matters. Colm Keaveney is an example of this.

Fair point HC, but for me, now we have Siptu jumping on board. That's not on as far as I am concerned. They stood idly by over the past few years just making 'noise' while what You describe is steadily increasing.

And now they want to organise protest marches over 'poverty' while at the same time, they still pay themselves exhorbitant salaries? What cheek!

the groutch

9th of March is when this will all spill over, then all the newly elected TDs can ride off into the sunset with their guaranteed pensions.

HabeasCorpus

The 'Creaming It With Contempt' crew need the standard of pay (including, bonus, expenses, all the sneaky extras) to be revised and reduced. The inflated figures, were in the main, as a result of spiraling rates of pay in construction. These top civil servants, Board members, (E.G. of some of the many Boards apart from Banking and Finance: National Board of Review, Irish Horse Board, National Education Board, Irish Film Board etc etc), all the Government Advisors, Finance Committee, (also Union reps), the Bank employees, Lotto Board (a lot of these are the SAME people), the Charities - Asthma society need a good grounding with a relative pay and pension to their performance. There would be excellent savings in tax there. The Ministerial multiple pensions, and past Presidents' cost, Albert Reynolds' security etc etc. another saving.

We all are aware of famous/infamous financial institutions who creamed off 'investments' and pension advice which was RUBBISH. One Bank actually advised people to set up accounts to avail of non domiciled perks, ILLEGAL!! but the ill advised people were in trouble, not the Bank. People have lost everything, even peace of mind for the future pension, but these highly paid parasites rest easy knowing they have lump sums of 1 million plus and huge pensions. Then they hide behind ...Past performance cannot guarantee future yields... Well they are/were paid very high salaries for their supposed precise, unparalleled experience. I could have advised much better, and in truth, the only time I read the Business Post is when I need to sleep. Or you could have put your money in the Post Office and still have it there.

Also how many people know that 57 brand new Audi A6s were just purchased this year BY THE TAXPAYER, for the use of the Government. So they have no car expenses, most cases they don't even drive, we pay for a driver, why do they get travel allowance? Incidentally who was the person who got that sale of cars? Do we know anything about the negotiation, I wonder if it was a good friend of a Government member, or an advisor?

The industrial wage, the construction wage has been decimated. Where is the proportional reduction in bureaucratic employees and the corresponding reduction in salary the rest of private enterprise (apart from IT) have suffered? Work itself has all but dried up for people at the bottom in construction, who worked very very hard and are now left bereft. The saving grace for the Government is emigration, rather, the safety valve. And we can't mention the growing elephant in the room of an influx of people here whose lives are being totally supported by the Irish taxpayer, we can NOT mention that.

People are rightly incensed at the increased weight of taxation and austerity foisted upon them. The Household Charge is the last straw in these punitive cutbacks. I am mystified to hear of the Great Boom, and Fantastic LIves everyone had in, say 2005. I worked very hard then, saved tiny amounts through strict budgeting when I could, paid my way. Lots of people I know worked similarly for little reward throughout these Good Times. I am not buying into this Boom we supposedly all experienced, it passed me by, but it is a fallacy that a minority want us to believe - because THEY had it. I didn't spend 2,000 euro on a pair of shoes, yet every time I read about I hear references to that type of thing in 'How did we waste our money in the noughties'. Very few people did that. Anyway, what's to stop people at the top still drawing multiple large salaries still doing it? They still are.

The Household charge is where I am drawing the line, I did not agree to the Bondholders being paid. I don't know why in all reason we need to pay a TV licence when RTE are running advertisements to pay their highly waged way, but I pay it. I pay all my taxes and am not a burden on the state, I don't require them to provide a house for me. They made plenty of tax from me buying and building this house. But I have seen what they do with all the tax they receive and am not paying more tax to them to waste. Send back the 57 Audis.

HabeasCorpus

the groutch wrote: »

9th of March is when this will all spill over, then all the newly elected TDs can ride off into the sunset with their guaranteed pensions.

Let's shift them before that!

spikethedog

HabeasCorpus wrote: »

The 'Creaming It With Contempt' crew need the standard of pay (including, bonus, expenses, all the sneaky extras) to be revised and reduced. The inflated figures, were in the main, as a result of spiraling rates of pay in construction. These top civil servants, Board members, (E.G. of some of the many Boards apart from Banking and Finance: National Board of Review, Irish Horse Board, National Education Board, Irish Film Board etc etc), all the Government Advisors, Finance Committee, (also Union reps), the Bank employees, Lotto Board (a lot of these are the SAME people), the Charities - Asthma society need a good grounding with a relative pay and pension to their performance. There would be excellent savings in tax there. The Ministerial multiple pensions, and past Presidents' cost, Albert Reynolds' security etc etc. another saving.

We all are aware of famous/infamous financial institutions who creamed off 'investments' and pension advice which was RUBBISH. One Bank actually advised people to set up accounts to avail of non domiciled perks, ILLEGAL!! but the ill advised people were in trouble, not the Bank. People have lost everything, even peace of mind for the future pension, but these highly paid parasites rest easy knowing they have lump sums of 1 million plus and huge pensions. Then they hide behind ...Past performance cannot guarantee future yields... Well they are/were paid very high salaries for their supposed precise, unparalleled experience. I could have advised much better, and in truth, the only time I read the Business Post is when I need to sleep. Or you could have put your money in the Post Office and still have it there.

Also how many people know that 57 brand new Audi A6s were just purchased this year BY THE TAXPAYER, for the use of the Government. So they have no car expenses, most cases they don't even drive, we pay for a driver, why do they get travel allowance? Incidentally who was the person who got that sale of cars? Do we know anything about the negotiation, I wonder if it was a good friend of a Government member, or an advisor?

The industrial wage, the construction wage has been decimated. Where is the proportional reduction in bureaucratic employees and the corresponding reduction in salary the rest of private enterprise (apart from IT) have suffered? Work itself has all but dried up for people at the bottom in construction, who worked very very hard and are now left bereft. The saving grace for the Government is emigration, rather, the safety valve. And we can't mention the growing elephant in the room of an influx of people here whose lives are being totally supported by the Irish taxpayer, we can NOT mention that.

People are rightly incensed at the increased weight of taxation and austerity foisted upon them. The Household Charge is the last straw in these punitive cutbacks. I am mystified to hear of the Great Boom, and Fantastic LIves everyone had in, say 2005. I worked very hard then, saved tiny amounts through strict budgeting when I could, paid my way. Lots of people I know worked similarly for little reward throughout these Good Times. I am not buying into this Boom we supposedly all experienced, it passed me by, but it is a fallacy that a minority want us to believe - because THEY had it. I didn't spend 2,000 euro on a pair of shoes, yet every time I read about I hear references to that type of thing in 'How did we waste our money in the noughties'. Very few people did that. Anyway, what's to stop people at the top still drawing multiple large salaries still doing it? They still are.

The Household charge is where I am drawing the line, I did not agree to the Bondholders being paid. I don't know why in all reason we need to pay a TV licence when RTE are running advertisements to pay their highly waged way, but I pay it. I pay all my taxes and am not a burden on the state, I don't require them to provide a house for me. They made plenty of tax from me buying and building this house. But I have seen what they do with all the tax they receive and am not paying more tax to them to waste. Send back the 57 Audis.

As far as I know the 57 Audi's are part of a sponsorship deal with the car maker. Although I would presume that the drivers and running costs will be picked up by the taxpayer ok.
I'd agree with your other points though, the gravy train that is out public service will have to be tackled once and for all, hopefully the troika's last report will force that to happen although I wouldn't hold my breath.
Reading this report in the times is quite depressing, howlin is to 'ask' the public sector staff to work an additional 4 hours per fortnight bringing them to a 9 1/2 day fortnight. Imagine that, our publicly paid servants being asked to work a 4 3/4 day week instead of a 4 1/2 day week. And he has to 'ask' them to do that. Madness! These people need to face reality the same as the rest of us in the private sector, working 40 hours a week minimum, had to years ago.
No wonder they want property tax off people, it's to keep the gravy train on the tracks.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0114/breaking4.htm

Am Chile

HabeasCorpus wrote: »

Is there any organised group lobbying against this taxation of a person's home in particular? Really it will take marching and a show of force. It is coming to that time now. I have had enough. We have handed our power over to those who instead of leading, legislating for our welfare, are just abusing the Irish people.

It isn't enough to complain and say one party is as bad as the other, the situation is serious. A lot of people are on the edge. In my area alone, there is a steady increase in suicide over the past few years, especially unemployed men. There is real hardship, desperation and suffering. We need dynamic intelligent people in the Dail. We need to shift those supporting unfair taxation, the squandering of the tax received, those who are directly benefiting from it. The Dail members will not stand by household charges, corruption in the system etc., if we en masse let them know we will remove our support over these matters. Colm Keaveney is an example of this.

The main lobby group against the family home tax is CAHWT facebook page below-they will be having a round of public meetings nationwide soon-marches and protests will likely follow.

http://www.facebook.com/NoHouseholdTax?fref=ts

There is another new lobby group NAAPT set up recently-facebook page is here below.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/NAAPT/438913802829161

Am Chile

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Fair point HC, but for me, now we have Siptu jumping on board. That's not on as far as I am concerned. They stood idly by over the past few years just making 'noise' while what You describe is steadily increasing.

And now they want to organise protest marches over 'poverty' while at the same time, they still pay themselves exhorbitant salaries? What cheek!

Reading through siptus statement-they don,t mention the family home tax or recent prsi increaes, I find what they are saying somewhat contradictory on one hand they re saying.

to
pay off banking debts that should never have been incurred.”

Most people would be of the same view the banking debt should of never being incurred onto Irelands taxpayers-being of that view- then on the other hand here is what Siptu are actually saying about the banking debt.

A
deal to restructure the crippling burden of banking debt

If someone is of the view the banking debt should of never being incurred, shouldn,t they argue for the banking debt to be wrtiten off and canceled instead of calling for it to be restructured meaning taking longer to pay it, paying more in the longer run, paying more Interest added onto it etc.

http://www.siptu.ie/media/pressreleases2012/featurednews/fullstory_16864_en.html

It just seems to me the planned protest in a few weeks is just to give the masses the Impression the unions are doing something-by having a few union leaders giving speeches telling people what they want to hear-most people in attendence will clap at the end of each speech and everyone goes home afterwards-and nothing changes.

HabeasCorpus

I see what you mean about the siptu involvement, it could actually take the edge off a real protest.

Did anyone notice the farmers got the 8 billion I think it was, rushed through without a word. This is because they are known to march. Teachers strike, affecting the students' exam results shamelessly. It takes action, and we are fairly quiet as a nation. I heard an American host show, trying to find the link, discussing visiting Ireland's colleges and they commented that some fine young students were so brainwashed saying how we HAD to pay the Bondholders. Some Financial experts went into the legalities of it and said they were unsecured Bondholders and we don't have to pay. Scaremongering is just being used. Again I wonder do any ex/Ministers, ex/Taoiseachi have a vested interest in those Bondholders being paid. They are anonymous bondholders. There is a lot of propaganda, all the Irish radio, tv, and newspapers are citing one viewing point, supporting keeping the show/gravy train running. According to this Popular Thinking, you Must pay all your taxes; from TV licence, to increased PAYE, to Household charge and a myriad of invisible taxes. WHY must we, when they are being squandered?

I have looked in vain online to see if I can find info on the alleged 'sponsorship' deal with Audi for the 57 A6s. The only thing I can find is sponsorship for an English soccer team. This sponsorship story for the Irish Government is probably eyewash as it is an insult they - I mean the taxpayers, are buying these cars now. Also the hold up in paying the student grants, and increased registration fees are resulting in real poverty including hunger, and many students dropping out of college. There are soup kitchens in the colleges now, first time ever, to try ensure the students aren't starving. Let's use the 5 star meal allowance of each minister fat on the luxurious life style and banquets we afford them, to keep the students going until the grants are finally paid.

Incidentally, was it true the Taoiseach was drawing a salary for teaching until he was named and shamed for doing so last year? He has no interest in education for our young people - well not the ones who are financially challenged.

I believe a show of power of the people marching/lobbying their TDs/getting petitions in the next 6 weeks could reap rewards. The Ministers will not want to be kicked out before the magical date of March 9th. However, the petition one is a bit risky, they'd probably use that to send out your bill for the household charge

View

Ghandee wrote: »

What services does the house in leafy Belfast receive in return for payment of their rates?

Well, let's see, a quick scan of Belfast City Council shows they spend roughly 5 out of 6 pounds in two categories:
1) Leisure & Recreation
2) Environmental Services

Ghandee wrote: »

What services will a homeowner in Foxrock receive for paying their property tax?

From DLR's accounts, as above PLUS:

3) Road Transportation & Safety (the largest expenditure area)
4) Water Services
5) Housing & Building

And, unlike in South Belfast, the residents of Foxrock don't have to pay for Water with a separate Water Bill. Nor are the tax-payers of Kent & Surrey sending DLR large grants to pick up a huge chunk of the bill for Roads & Housing.

Ghandee

View wrote: »

Well, let's see, a quick scan of Belfast City Council shows they spend roughly 5 out of 6 pounds in two categories:
1) Leisure & Recreation
2) Environmental Services

What about health and education?
Emergency services?



From DLR's accounts, as above PLUS:

View wrote: »

3) Road Transportation & Safety (the largest expenditure area)

What

View wrote: »

4) Water Services

Oh, so they're not going to bill us separately for water now after all?

View wrote: »

5) Housing & Building

I've housed myself though, and I'm sure anyone else here the property tax applies to, either housed, or built themselves, so what your implying is, it will be used to build or provide housing for those folk who will be exempt from the charge (which makes sense :rolleyes:)

View wrote: »

And, unlike in South Belfast, the residents of Foxrock don't have to pay for Water with a separate Water Bill. Nor are the tax-payers of Kent & Surrey sending DLR large grants to pick up a huge chunk of the bill for Roads & Housing.

Two things wrong with the above,

the people in Foxrock, from next year will get a separate water bill.
Folk in Belfast, do not.

Read up on it view.

Aquarius34

295 pages and this thread is stil going on?

What part of NO do people not understand.

I am not paying for it. Get over it and move on.

Chips Lovell

I don't think the entire 295 pages has been focussed on you in particular.

barrackali

Aquarius34 wrote: »

295 pages and this thread is stil going on?

What part of NO do people not understand.

I am not paying for it. Get over it and move on.

Good luck with that one

Aquarius34

barrackali wrote: »

Good luck with that one

I am doing pretty ok

Aquarius34

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I don't think the entire 295 pages has been focussed on you in particular.

True, but did you ever hear the word no? it's a great term. It cuts through the bull****.

View

Ghandee wrote: »

What about health and education?
Emergency services?



From DLR's accounts, as above PLUS:


What

Oh, so they're not going to bill us separately for water now after all?


I've housed myself though, and I'm sure anyone else here the property tax applies to, either housed, or built themselves, so what your implying is, it will be used to build or provide housing for those folk who will be exempt from the charge (which makes sense :rolleyes:)




Two things wrong with the above,

the people in Foxrock, from next year will get a separate water bill.
Folk in Belfast, do not.

Read up on it view.

I stand corrected on the water bill point regarding Belfast. All that means is that that service too is being heavily subsidised by tax-payers elsewhere in the UK.

I also note that the NI Water site talks about water charges there being deferred - which implies this issue will re-surface shortly unless that is Mr Osborne is happy to keep a situation where he sends subsidy cheques to NI that he won't to his own constituency.

All of which means that the residents of South Belfast, just like those of Foxrock, will probably face water charges within the next 10 years or so.

Hence 3 of the the 5 major services that DLR council provide to its residents are NOT provided by Belfast City council to its residents.

Regarding your other points:
1) yes, DLR council do provide a Roads service and like all councils here it is their single biggest area of expenditure,
2) If you have an issue with Housing stand for election - both the Oireachtas and Council have made democratic decisions in favour of it. The Northern Ireland Housing Executive appears to handle that area in the North so it is not something unique to councils in the RoI.
3) Schools in Belfast fall under the domain of BELB which gets its monies directly from the Dept of Education, so local council rates doesn't pay for it.

The annual reports of both DLR and Belfast City Council are available online. I suggest you follow your own advice and "read up on it", particularly the Expenditure and Income areas.

It is real easy for NI politicians to claim they are better when in reality they are merely spending other people's taxes from the rest of the UK.

barrackali

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I am doing pretty ok

Tell me that if at some point you try and sell your house, you won't be able to without a tax clearance certificate. And you won't get one of those without paying the Property tax.

Also, let me know how you get on with a multitude of fines......you do know there will be penalties down the line.

View

Aquarius34 wrote: »

295 pages and this thread is stil going on?

What part of NO do people not understand.

I am not paying for it. Get over it and move on.

Well, it'll be interesting to see if Revenue "get over it and move on" - do let us know their response.

Aquarius34

View wrote: »

Well, it'll be interesting to see if Revenue "get over it and move on" - do let us know their response.

Well they'll have too.:)

Aquarius34

barrackali wrote: »

Tell me that if at some point you try and sell your house, you won't be able to without a tax clearance certificate. And you won't get one of those without paying the Property tax.

Also, let me know how you get on with a multitude of fines......you do know there will be penalties down the line.

Fine's for owning my own house?. I don't f*ck about mate. No one will bully me with this corrupt "legal" system. These grubby tax gobblers get enough money as it is. They are not getting anything else from me. If they want money, work for it, and stop the begging. I don't fall for any of this crap. Don't even dare to try insult my intelligence on this issue.

darkhorse

HabeasCorpus wrote:

I heard an American host show, trying to find the link, discussing visiting Ireland's colleges and they commented that some fine young students were so brainwashed saying how we HAD to pay the Bondholders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Q-_IR_yNg7c

Ghandee

View wrote: »

I stand corrected on the water bill point regarding Belfast. All that means is that that service too is being heavily subsidised by tax-payers elsewhere in the UK.

I also note that the NI Water site talks about water charges there being deferred - which implies this issue will re-surface shortly unless that is Mr Osborne is happy to keep a situation where he sends subsidy cheques to NI that he won't to his own constituency.

All of which means that the residents of South Belfast, just like those of Foxrock, will probably face water charges within the next 10 years or so.

Probably?

So there is no proof either way.

View wrote: »

Hence 3 of the the 5 major services that DLR council provide to its residents are NOT provided by Belfast City council to its residents.

Regarding your other points:
1) yes, DLR council do provide a Roads service and like all councils here it is their single biggest area of expenditure,
2) If you have an issue with Housing stand for election - both the Oireachtas and Council have made democratic decisions in favour of it. The Northern Ireland Housing Executive appears to handle that area in the North so it is not something unique to councils in the RoI.
3) Schools in Belfast fall under the domain of BELB which gets its monies directly from the Dept of Education, so local council rates doesn't pay for it.

Oops, what's this then?

Regional rate

The regional rate is set by Central Government.

Income from the regional rate is used to meet the costs of providing services like:

• education
• health
• personal social services
• housing
• roads
• sewerage
• water

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/rates/money.asp

View wrote: »

The annual reports of both DLR and Belfast City Council are available online. I suggest you follow your own advice and "read up on it", particularly the Expenditure and Income areas.

I'm quite well read up on how the rates system works in the north, and what it pays for thanks very much.

Three threads in, I'm surprised you didn't educate yourself though, instead of proclaiming to be knowledgeable on something you know nothing about.

View wrote: »

It is real easy for NI politicians to claim they are better

Firstly I was unaware that politicians from the north claiming 'they are better than anyone else', quite frankly, I'm at a loss as to where this statement came from

And as for

View wrote: »

when in reality they are merely spending other people's taxes from the rest of the UK.

You may want to sit down for this, but you do realise where the politicians seated in D.E get the money they spend? Hint (it's from us tax payers too, only they are 'entitled' to much more)

Ghandee

barrackali wrote: »

Tell me that if at some point you try and sell your house, you won't be able to without a tax clearance certificate. And you won't get one of those without paying the Property tax.

Maybe he's one of the hundreds of thousands, much like myself who never ever intend to sell their 'house'. I for one live in a home, more than likely I'll die here.

The fact that I 'won't be able to sell it without a tax clearance cert, means absolutely zero too me, in fact I don't think it's possible to care less about something than I care about selling the family home.

barrackali wrote: »

Also, let me know how you get on with a multitude of fines......you do know there will be penalties down the line.

Fined for living in your own home?

Never heard such crap in all my life.

Bring it on revenue/FG/lab......

You're only there because we put you there, never forget that.

Aquarius34

This whole issue is so beyond the beyond ridiculous.

What amazes me about all this corruption and nonsense, is the elite actually pay NOTHING.

I say, bury this system and they all rot in to hell. To be threatened with fines for not paying taxes to the house you own already?. What the hell is going on in this country? What is this world coming too? We are treated worse than animals, we have less rights than animals have. It's just more and more tactics to try control people and keep people intoxicated by this greedy system. The greedy always want more. Enough is enough people.

This is exactly why I am a conspiracy theorist. I don't fu*cking understand the logic in any of this shiit.

barrackali

Aquarius34 wrote: »

This whole issue is so beyond the beyond ridiculous.

What amazes me about all this corruption and nonsense, is the elite actually pay NOTHING.

I say, bury this system and they all rot in to hell. To be threatened with fines for not paying taxes to the house you own already?. What the hell is going on in this country? What is this world coming too? We are treated worse than animals, we have less rights than animals have. It's just more and more tactics to try control people and keep people intoxicated by this greedy system. The greedy always want more. Enough is enough people.

This is exactly why I am a conspiracy theorist. I don't fu*cking understand the logic in any of this shiit.

Is this Jim Corr's boards account? lol