Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Don't forget, if no one can sell or transfer property due to non payment, that leaves a hell of a lot of properties that will flood an already crap market, and house prices will take a further nose dive again.

Eh? If no one is selling because they'ed be caught for back tax, how does the market get flooded?

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

lol. He must have deliberately missed that 12 year old story.

FYP lol.

Mr CJ

dvpower wrote: »

Aren't you in breach of Section 5 of the 2011 Local Government (Household Charge) Act.

You probably don't see it as wrongdoing.

DVPOWER aren't the government in breach of article 15.4 1°, 15.4 2°, 40.1, 40.3 1°, 41.1 1°, 41.2 1°, 41.2 2°, 43.1 1°, 43,1 2°, 43.2 1°, 43.2 2°, 44.2 5°, 44.2 6° & 45.1 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN with the 2011 Local Government (Household Charge) Act??

I have to laugh dv power you must be the biggest hypocrite on boards.ie having the nerve and cheek and being all high & mighty about being law biding when you are the biggest form of a law breaker, following commands in breach of the fundamental laws of Ireland from a shower of gangsters!! This makes you the lowest of the lowest of the low!!

PS maybe you shut your mind of when you hear the words "its law" and do not question it... maybe you still believe in the tooth fairy? I dont know

dvpower

Mr CJ wrote: »

DVPOWER aren't the government in breach of article 15.4 1°, 15.4 2°, 40.1, 40.3 1°, 41.1 1°, 41.2 1°, 41.2 2°, 43.1 1°, 43,1 2°, 43.2 1°, 43.2 2°, 44.2 5°, 44.2 6° & 45.1 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN with the 2011 Local Government (Household Charge) Act??

No

Mr CJ wrote: »

I have to laugh dv power you must be the biggest hypocrite on boards.ie having the nerve and cheek and being all high & mighty about being law biding when you are the biggest form of a law breaker, following commands in breach of the fundamental laws of Ireland from a shower of gangsters!! This makes you the lowest of the lowest of the low!!

PS maybe you shut your mind of when you hear the words "its law" and do not question it... maybe you still believe in the tooth fairy? I dont know

Personal abuse eh? Again. Reported.

Mr CJ

dvpower wrote: »

No


Personal abuse eh? Again. Reported.

Hang on, please quote the personal abuse?? I have stated pure fact, you are the one claiming that others on here have broke the law im simply highlighting the fact you are in the wrong.

The truth always hurts I understand

Bruthal

Mr CJ wrote: »

Hang on, please quote the personal abuse?? I have stated pure fact, you are the one claiming that others on here have broke the law im simply highlighting the fact you are in the wrong.

The truth always hurts I understand

Your ok, probably revenue he reports to.

Bullseye1

Just ignore

K-9

Cut it out or ye'll both get a thread ban. Imagine that, what would ye do.

Bruthal

K-9 wrote: »

Cut it out or ye'll both get a thread ban. Imagine that, what would ye do.

The entertainment value would go down anyway

Mr CJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr CJ
DVPOWER aren't the government in breach of article 15.4 1°, 15.4 2°, 40.1, 40.3 1°, 41.1 1°, 41.2 1°, 41.2 2°, 43.1 1°, 43,1 2°, 43.2 1°, 43.2 2°, 44.2 5°, 44.2 6° & 45.1 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN with the 2011 Local Government (Household Charge) Act??

Originally Posted by DVPOWER
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr CJ
I have to laugh dv power you must be the biggest hypocrite on boards.ie having the nerve and cheek and being all high & mighty about being law biding when you are the biggest form of a law breaker, following commands in breach of the fundamental laws of Ireland from a shower of gangsters!! This makes you the lowest of the lowest of the low!!

PS maybe you shut your mind of when you hear the words "its law" and do not question it... maybe you still believe in the tooth fairy? I dont know

Originally Posted by DVPOWER
Personal abuse eh? Again. Reported. QUOTE]

DV Power I apologise if I have caused you any stress or seemed confrontational towards you.

However I still stand fully by what I say.

Your comments are hypocritical are they not?
You have called the people against this tax on the forum people who break the law have you not? This kind of comment can be seen as extremely insulting and personal to some people.

Can you please also explain your answer "no" and give the reasons why it is not in breach?

I would tend to call anyone the lowest of the low who has no disregard for the fundamental laws of Ireland, our very own constitution especially the articles the HHC is in breach over.

Who knows what people who support this atrocious government and who have no problem paying this draconian tax think about or believe in?

As a general rule of thumb if you give it you should be able to take it, but again I apologise for any harm caused with my words.

Mr CJ

K-9 wrote: »

Cut it out or ye'll both get a thread ban. Imagine that, what would ye do.

Set up a campaign against Boards.ie K9 Moderator for not allowing the freedom of speach... and then plan mass protests and demonstrations.... :rolleyes: lol

donalg1

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Donal what are you doing here?

I'm rofl

HabeasCorpus

The figure quoted of over 1.5 million who have 50 euros left after bills monthly probably includes many households who are temporarily on an 'interest only' arrangement with a lending institution for their mortgage. The interest only term, usually is granted for a year, sometimes due to extended hardship, it can be for 2 years. But unless a new loan is re-negotiated, in most cases the final payment date of the loan remains the same. So when they return to full repayments; capital + interest, they will actually be repaying a higher amount monthly than they would if they had not taken the interest only year(s).

Will people have any hope of paying the increased amount of the property tax when their interest only term expires and they are repaying the remainder of their mortgage in larger monthly debits to make up for the year(s) they went interest only? If people have only 50 euros left now, with so many on interest only, a significant amount of people who now have €50 left at the end of the month with scrimping, will have a deficit of at least 500 euro on average monthly. That is, unless they gain employment paying over 700 euro a week. Or become a TD or member of the Seanad. Local councilors do ok too, some of them got over 80k expenses per annum.

There are lots of temporary measures of paying, or leniency being afforded to struggling householders, some working full or part-time. some are being given bailouts by their families. But these were all short term measures to keep those families afloat. This has given the government an incorrect view of what is the bottom line.

We are past the very, very bottom line. A lot of people cannot afford to go back to full mortgage repayments, and lending institutions will not indefinitely grant them an extension of their interest only period. Those and more people need to pay back the money they borrowed from family to keep afloat. Not only can they not afford the Household charge, they couldn't afford their mortgage, or in many cases, heating last year. So what happens when these families can no longer remain on Interest Only, when family help runs out, when they have to pay a tax on their home as well - ever rising, and then water rates.

Each time we juggle money, borrow, beg and pay a new tax, it just makes those setting taxes believe we HAVE all this money. By 'coming up with the money' we are perpetuating the lie that it is possible to sustain this level of austerity. They don't see the reality, that, without juggling, refinancing, family help, most Irish families are running at a monthly deficit of a minimum of over 500 euro. We have just about managed short term, we cannot carry this burden long term, never mind an increased load.

K-9

Mr CJ wrote: »

Set up a campaign against Boards.ie K9 Moderator for not allowing the freedom of speach... and then plan mass protests and demonstrations.... :rolleyes: lol

Listen, cut out the personal sniping. Debate away, but if it's just posters throwing handbags at each other, I prefer classy, expensive stuff.

HabeasCorpus

donalg1 wrote: »

I'm rofl

Inappropriate laughter is the first sign of psychosis.
Anxiety can produce a lot of unpleasant feelings and behaviors.
A person that experiences these attacks in truth does not find anything funny at all. When they are able to finally get themselves under control they are often exhausted and embarrassed.

Aquarius34

Mr CJ wrote: »

D
Who knows what people who support this atrocious government and who have no problem paying this draconian tax think about or believe in?

As a general rule of thumb if you give it you should be able to take it, but again I apologise for any harm caused with my words.

Draconian is a word for an Extraterritorial race.

Aquarius34

HabeasCorpus wrote: »

Inappropriate laughter is the first sign of psychosis.
Anxiety can produce a lot of unpleasant feelings and behaviors.
A person that experiences these attacks in truth does not find anything funny at all. When they are able to finally get themselves under control they are often exhausted and embarrassed.

Well then it's showing they're losing the plot, that's a good sign.

donalg1

HabeasCorpus wrote: »

Inappropriate laughter is the first sign of psychosis.
Anxiety can produce a lot of unpleasant feelings and behaviors.
A person that experiences these attacks in truth does not find anything funny at all. When they are able to finally get themselves under control they are often exhausted and embarrassed.

Oh ok thanks for the lesson :rolleyes:

Just as well it was completely appropriate laughter that had me on the floor, also I found the above pretty funny too.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Oh ok thanks for the lesson :rolleyes:

Just as well it was completely appropriate laughter that had me on the floor, also I found the above pretty funny too.

Here's something to laugh at.

We are currently running a total debt of €169 Billion

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/187792-morgan-stanley-total-irish-government-debt-400-gnp.html

and this has to be shouldered by a population of 4.58 million.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0329/breaking17.html

Of that 4.58 million, 1,787,000 are in some form of employment.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

Of this total debt, the banks were bailed out to the tune of €64 billion which is half of the total debt.

http://karlwhelan.com/blog/?p=471

Now tell me this. When the bailout money expires in 2014

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0305/breaking27.html

, it is predicted we will return to the markets to fund the State.

Do you think the markets would lend to a country with such colossal debt? Would you??

Second bailout is most definitely on the way and with it, new terms that will most likely be far more draconian than the current terms set out in the Memorandum of Understanding. If Greece is anything to go by, we are in for big changes....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16976520

The only solution is to write off the Bank Debt and then deal with the rest or suffer what is coming...

donalg1

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Well then it's showing they're losing the plot, that's a good sign.

Really and we are the ones losing the plot?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82749768&postcount=219

LMFAO and backing out slowly

DoesNotCompute

Ghandee wrote: »

Here's something to laugh at.

We are currently running a total debt of €169 Billion

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/187792-morgan-stanley-total-irish-government-debt-400-gnp.html

and this has to be shouldered by a population of 4.58 million.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0329/breaking17.html

Of that 4.58 million, 1,787,000 are in some form of employment.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

Of this total debt, the banks were bailed out to the tune of €64 billion which is half of the total debt.

http://karlwhelan.com/blog/?p=471

Now tell me this. When the bailout money expires in 2014

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0305/breaking27.html

, it is predicted we will return to the markets to fund the State.

Do you think the markets would lend to a country with such colossal debt? Would you??

Second bailout is most definitely on the way and with it, new terms that will most likely be far more draconian than the current terms set out in the Memorandum of Understanding. If Greece is anything to go by, we are in for big changes....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16976520

The only solution is to write off the Bank Debt and then deal with the rest or suffer what is coming...

Here's some more stats for you G-Man, since you seem to love numbers so much:

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/

33% of households have a gross income of less than €30,000
56% of households have a gross income of less than €50,000
62% of households have a gross income below the average (mean) household income of €56,500
The top 30% of households have a gross income of more than €70,000 per annum
The top 20% of households have a gross income of more than €80,000 per annum
14% of household have a gross income above €100,000 per annum
2% of households have gross incomes above €200,000 per annum

62% of households have a gross income below €56,500. People in this country aren't doing too bad for themselves despite all this talk about people being pushed into poverty.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Really and we are the ones losing the plot?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82749768&postcount=219

LMFAO and backing out slowly

How is that relevant in any way, shape or form to the hhc/property tax?

I'm confused?

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

How is that relevant in any way, shape or form to the hhc/property tax?

I'm confused?

Thats ok Ghandee.

donalg1

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Here's some more stats for you G-Man, since you seem to love numbers so much:

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/



62% of households have a gross income below €56,500. People in this country aren't doing too bad for themselves despite all this talk about people being pushed into poverty.

I was watching a programme a few months back one of the Ross Kemp documentaries, think it was in South America somewhere and he also did one in Africa now that was poverty. I remember watching it thinking as bad as we think we have it here it is nothing in comparison to some countries. I mean people here are giving out because a report says some only have €50 left at the end of the month once they pay their bills, now there are people all over the world that would give anything to be in that situation. But I suppose its all relative really.

Grab hold of a hot pan, a second can seem like an hour. Put your hands on a hot woman, an hour can seem like a second. - Albert Einstein

Ghandee

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Here's some more stats for you G-Man, since you seem to love numbers so much:

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/



62% of households have a gross income below €56,500. People in this country aren't doing too bad for themselves despite all this talk about people being pushed into poverty.

Jesus wept.


Of those on a €56,000 combined income, how can you, me or anyone else decipher what their outgoings (essential bills) are per month?

Mortgage, car payment, kids to be clothed and fed, energy bills, food, personal loan/credit card.

I would guess Sean Quinn 'earned' more than 56k last year btw. Can't see it covering his liabilities though. :rolleyes:

Again DNC, you're taking no ones personal circumstances into the equation but your own.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Thats ok Ghandee.

So its not relevant at all?

Thanks for confirming that

I just don't get why you would post it, whats next, have a dig around my posts in bargain alerts, see if their are any 'discrediting' posts of mine in there?

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Really and we are the ones losing the plot?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82749768&postcount=219

LMFAO and backing out slowly

As doughal said, its no more peculiar than heaven and hell or everlasting life.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

So its not relevant at all?

Thanks for confirming that

I just don't get why you would post it, whats next, have a dig around my posts in bargain alerts, see if their are any 'discrediting' posts of mine in there?

hmmm I dont think you are one to talk Ghandee now in all fairness, you seem to like digging around in other peoples posts too and bringing them in here dont you?

I for one believe it is relevant, you see if one poster is questioning the sanity of others well then I think it only proper to question the credentials of that poster when making such declarations.

Hijpo

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

62% of households have a gross income below €56,500. People in this country aren't doing too bad for themselves despite all this talk about people being pushed into poverty.

Households, so this is a combined figure, meaning each parent is on about 480 a week, take taxes and your down to about 390 each p/w. Then take car payments, car tax, petrol, car insurance, maintanance of the vehicle used to get to work.
Then take household bills like shopping, gas, electricity, maintanance, house insurance, life insurance, phone, TV, bins, mortgage repayments, possibly monitored alarm system (cuts to gaurds and increase in crime makes these essential now) not to mention payments to residents associations for the up keep of the estate that the LA has nothing to do with.
Now the kids, child minding because both parents are working, school fees, lunch money, after school activities, money to spend time with there friends (birthdays/ trip to town etc)
Then other days like xmas, birthdays, anniversaries, work nights, weddings, christening, confirmations, communions, mothers days, fathers days, easter.

You know, things that go on in life besides working and paying taxes?
Youd like to live in a world where no one has anything, life is not enjoyed and people live to work and keep the people on 60k single incomes comfy right?

donalg1 wrote: »

I was watching a programme a few months back one of the Ross Kemp documentaries, think it was in South America somewhere and he also did one in Africa now that was poverty. I remember watching it thinking as bad as we think we have it here it is nothing in comparison to some countries. I mean people here are giving out because a report says some only have €50 left at the end of the month once they pay their bills, now there are people all over the world that would give anything to be in that situation. But I suppose its all relative really.

Grab hold of a hot pan, a second can seem like an hour. Put your hands on a hot woman, an hour can seem like a second. - Albert Einstein

By that analogy everyone in ireland can afford to give alot more of there wages to the government. By the sounds of it you will continue to lower your spendable income because of the laws that some crooks made up until you and people like you relegate yourselfs to shanty towns and open sewers. Be my guest.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

Households, so this is a combined figure, meaning each parent is on about 480 a week, take taxes and your down to about 390 each p/w. Then take car payments, car tax, petrol, car insurance, maintanance of the vehicle used to get to work.
Then take household bills like shopping, gas, electricity, maintanance, house insurance, life insurance, phone, TV, bins, mortgage repayments, possibly monitored alarm system (cuts to gaurds and increase in crime makes these essential now) not to mention payments to residents associations for the up keep of the estate that the LA has nothing to do with.
Now the kids, child minding because both parents are working, school fees, lunch money, after school activities, money to spend time with there friends (birthdays/ trip to town etc)
Then other days like xmas, birthdays, anniversaries, work nights, weddings, christening, confirmations, communions, mothers days, fathers days, easter.

You know, things that go on in life besides working and paying taxes?



By that analogy everyone in ireland can afford to give alot more of there wages to the government. By the sounds of it you will continue to lower your spendable income because of the laws that some crooks made up until you and people like you relegate yourselfs to shanty towns and open sewers. Be my guest.

No the point is that we dont really have it that bad here at all in comparison to others, we moan here about not being able to afford sky movies or the newest iPhone, whereas some people live in a shack without water or electricity and with an open sewer runnig past their house.

Basically the point is we could be an awful lot worse off than we are and I for one am thankful for having it as good as we do.

I mean the irony is never lost on me when someone logs on to the internet to complain about how bad we have it here.