Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

Have you been brainwashed donal or has the Govt propaganda got to you?
You need to get out and about and actually talk to the people. Then you will see the real picture.
Are you saying that the Credit Unions are lying and that very few are suffering as a result of Govt policies?
You need to wise-up.
There are businesses closing down every day.
There are people who have cancelled health insurance, car insurance, creches etc because they cannot afford to pay these and pay their food and heating bills.
There are people who have gone onto interest only mortgages to try and keep afloat. It will not last.
Forget about what the "party men" are telling you and go out and find out the real story for yourself.

Tayto I am well aware that there are some very unfortunate cases out there in Ireland today. However for every one genuine case there is probably 10 bullsh1t cases. And of those genuine cases many will be in the situation they are in due to thier own poor decisions.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

I will have to decide which luxury to sacrifice in order to pay the property tax or I will have to budget better, I am sure I will manage though.

If you were on sw for more than twelve months, and (heaven forbid) your SW consisted of, rent (direct to landlord)

And a nominal amount of cash, for let's say food only, how would you budget then?

Do without food to pay your tax?

Would you put salt on your scabby knees?

donalg1

Bruthal wrote: »

Here possibly...

Good god, and did you decide to ignore the later post about this where I said it was a tongue in cheek response, and where I said I dont care what anyone does with their money?

Convenient to ignore these ones was it?

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

If you were on sw for more than twelve months, and (heaven forbid) your SW consisted of, rent (direct to landlord)

And a nominal amount of cash, for let's say food only, how would you budget then?

Do without food to pay your tax?

Would you put salt on your scabby knees?

I would probably get a job or ask a family member for help.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Ah yes Ghandee terrific retort altogether completely ignoring the fact that you have once again been found to be making stuff up. Werent you warned by a mod about this very thing earlier in the week?

Warned?


What?

Told to provide links to back up my claim (which I've did)

What have I made up

Sometimes, when completely snared, its best to hold the hands up Donal.


Your posts are fast becoming irrelevant now, your complete persona is full of holes.

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Good god, and did you decide to ignore the later post about this where I said it was a tongue in cheek response, and where I said I dont care what anyone does with their money?

Convenient to ignore these ones was it?

Not really, you have made so many contradicting posts, that your cheek must be worn away by now.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

Ah so you were making it up then, another on the anti side making up lies about other posters.

What golf club am I a member of Hijpo, you claimed it now lets see some actual proof? (or will we just assume you are talking sh1t)

I'll rephrase it to "comfortable enough to afford golf club membership while advocate paying extra taxes"

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Warned?


What?

Told to provide links to back up my claim (which I've did)

No you didnt you provided a link that didnt back up your claim, which is the opposite to what you were told to do.

What have I made up

This:

"Donal supports the notion that those less of than he is should only exist to have an income that provides shelter and food."

Sometimes, when completely snared, its best to hold the hands up Donal.

Its ok Ghandee I understand it must have been hard for you to hold your hands up, well done on it this time, hopefully you wont be making the same mistakes again. (Although given your track record for making stuff up I wont be holding my breath) Nevertheless credit where credit is due well done again on holding your hands up this time.

Your posts are fast becoming irrelevant now, your complete persona is full of holes.

How so?

Full of holes like when someone says its their moral duty to pay thier taxes in Ireland.

And then the same person says they wont be paying the property tax in Ireland.

Is that what you mean?

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

I'll rephrase it to "comfortable enough to afford golf club membership while advocate paying extra taxes"

And you know I can afford golf membership how?

donalg1

Bruthal wrote: »

Not really, you have made so many contradicting posts, that your cheek must be worn away by now.

Ah yes so it was more convenient for you to ignore these posts then, grand.

donalg1

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Longest post ever?

tayto lover

donalg1 wrote: »

Well that would be easier if we could identify the actual poor here in Ireland.

So you don't believe the Credit Union reports?
http://www.thejournal.ie/whats-left-over-1-million-adults-have-less-than-e50-after-bills-418778-Apr2012/

You haven't noticed the increase in Soup Kitchens (i work in one)?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irelands-new-poor-join-queue-for-food-parcels-2434282.html

You haven't spoke to teachers who are saying that kids are coming to school with poor lunches and often have no books?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0417/survey-finds-increase-in-children-reporting-hunger.html

You haven't seen the rise in mortgage arrears?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1213/breaking16.html

You haven't read about people who cannot afford to visit their doctor or buy medicine?
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=17621

Do you want me to go on or are you convinced that all the above are bluffing or exaggerating?
Really donal you should get out and about and stop listening to propaganda.

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

So you don't believe the Credit Union reports?
http://www.thejournal.ie/whats-left-over-1-million-adults-have-less-than-e50-after-bills-418778-Apr2012/

No I dont

You haven't noticed the increase in Soup Kitchens (i work in one)?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irelands-new-poor-join-queue-for-food-parcels-2434282.html

Yes I have and these would be the actual poor I was referring to.

You haven't spoke to teachers who are saying that kids are coming to school with poor lunches and often have no books?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0417/survey-finds-increase-in-children-reporting-hunger.html

No i havent spoke to teachers about this.

You haven't seen the rise in mortgage arrears?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1213/breaking16.html

Yes I have but I would also question how many of these are strategic defaulters.

You haven't read about people who cannot afford to visit their doctor or buy medicine?
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=17621

Dont need to as I am one of these, I am constantly putting off trips to the doctor, I am asthmatic and am on 2 inhalers yet I have been using one now for the last couple of years alternating between the two as I cant ever afford the price of them in one go and it means I dont have to give the doctor €50 for my prescription half as often.

Do you want me to go on or are you convinced that all the above are bluffing or exaggerating?
Really donal you should get out and about and stop listening to propaganda.

Tayto my whole point was that there are genuine people out there suffering however when we compare there plight to others it sometimes puts things into perspective even for them but this doesnt mean they arent suffering. Then there are others that claim to be suffering but are in fact taking the p1ss.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

And you know I can afford golf membership how?

Because you were looking at joining rosslare 2 years ago and planned on joining with full membership 5 months ago. Did you get your 340m2 drive tarmaced for 4700 after?

Anyone with that kind of money should be paying a much higher percentage of property tax not 0.18%, no Donal? Why not sure you can afford it so pay it.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

Because you were looking at joining rosslare 2 years ago and planned on joining with full membership 5 months ago. Did you get your 340m2 drive tarmaced for 4700 after?

Anyone with that kind of money should be paying a much higher percentage of property tax not 0.18%, no Donal? Why not sure you can afford it so pay it.

I think I asked if anyone knows if they still have the joining levy or if they know of the price to join, I have since found out and have gawked at the price, so that wish is on hold for another while.

No I didnt get my drive tarmaced, again if I remember correctly I asked about the price of this and now knowing what it costs will hopefully one day be in a position to get it done.

Are you claiming that asking about the price of something means one can afford it. I would think that if someone is asking the price of something they are enquiring about the price of it to see can they afford it. If I was to ask the price of a lear jet would you take it to mean that I am buying one and can afford one?

**// Edit

Unbelievable, thats all I can say.

You found the thread where I asked about membership of Rosslare, I just checked it there myself and looked at post no. 3 (yes 3) which I believe outlines everything regarding my ability to afford membership there, why bring it up Hijpo absolutely ridiculous.

Tis here for all to see

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72545664

Edit //***

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

I think I asked if anyone knows if they still have the joining levy or if they know of the price to join, I have since found out and have gawked at the price, so that wish is on hold for another while.

No I didnt get my drive tarmaced, again if I remember correctly I asked about the price of this and now knowing what it costs will hopefully one day be in a position to get it done.

Are you claiming that asking about the price of something means one can afford it. I would think that if someone is asking the price of something they are enquiring about the price of it to see can they afford it. If I was to ask the price of a lear jet would you take it to mean that I am buying one and can afford one?

No you were asking about handicaps and said you hoped to join a club. its a 340m2 drive and you wanted it tarmaced its hardly goin to be a few bob much like joining a golf club. As with anything pricey no point enquiring unless you figured you could afford it. Much like the lear jet, you have a ball park figure and know wether or not you can realisticly afford it. On the subject of a lear jet anyone who skips doctor visits and medicine due to lack of funds but decides they can afford a golf club has there priorities screwed up so it wouldnt suprise me in the least if you did enquire about a lear jet with the intention of selling everything to acquire one.

Chips Lovell

Golf clubs? I'm lost...

tayto lover

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Golf clubs? I'm lost...

Are Golf Clubs subject to the Property Tax Vlad?

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

I think I asked if anyone knows if they still have the joining levy or if they know of the price to join, I have since found out and have gawked at the price, so that wish is on hold for another while.

No I didnt get my drive tarmaced, again if I remember correctly I asked about the price of this and now knowing what it costs will hopefully one day be in a position to get it done.

Are you claiming that asking about the price of something means one can afford it. I would think that if someone is asking the price of something they are enquiring about the price of it to see can they afford it. If I was to ask the price of a lear jet would you take it to mean that I am buying one and can afford one?

**// Edit

Unbelievable, thats all I can say.

You found the thread where I asked about membership of Rosslare, I just checked it there myself and looked at post no. 3 (yes 3) which I believe outlines everything regarding my ability to afford membership there, why bring it up Hijpo absolutely ridiculous.

Tis here for all to see

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72545664

Edit //***

I'm on my mobile and didn't mean you were joining rosslare with full membership (admittedly it reads that way) however full membership is full membership to any golf club, it's expensive. So, someone able to afford golf membership cannot dictate whos poor and whos not and what the level of poor is. Suppose someone already cancled there club membership to provide education, internet and sky for the "family" instead of golf membership for themselfs? You want them to now cancle the entire family entertainment to supply the government with more waste.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

I'm on my mobile and didn't mean you were joining rosslare with full membership (admittedly it reads that way) however full membership is full membership to any golf club, it's expensive. So, someone able to afford golf membership cannot dictate whos poor and whos not and what the level of poor is. Suppose someone already cancled there club membership to provide education, internet and sky for the "family" instead of golf membership for themselfs? You want them to now cancle the entire family entertainment to supply the government with more waste.

Ha seriously though where did I say I can afford it? The thread you are referring to clearly states I can't. I even put a link to it for you.

It doesnt read that way and I can't see how being on your phone makes the words read any different. It reads that I asked does anyone know the price, I got a response to which I replied I have no chance if joining. Yet you read this as me saying I can afford it well I really don't know what to say about that other than what? Seriously what now? Em? Wow wow wow

tayto lover

FORE ....

Bullseye1

Surely we can keep the debate about the property tax and not about who can and cannot afford membership of a golf course. That's no ones business. When either side of the debate gets bogged down in stuff like this you lose credibility much like Noonan and his stupid sky subscription comments.

donalg1

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Surely we can keep the debate about the property tax and not about who can and cannot afford membership of a golf course. That's no ones business. When either side of the debate gets bogged down in stuff like this you lose credibility much like Noonan and his stupid sky subscription comments.

Well I'm all for that but its hijpo that talks about golf whenever I discuss anything with him so he is back on the ignore list now anyhoo.

dxhound2005

When I hear the results of the Credit Union surveys they always make me wonder. The methodology of the research appears to be standard in that the sample is representative of age spread and geography. But simply taking the answers from people as being true in financial matters does not strike me as good science. What would be needed is some investigation of actual income/spending/savings.

And I can't find any indication of what percentage of the survey are private homeowners (with or without mortgage, there are roughly the same number of each in the country), dependent adults in such homes, renting privately or social housing tenants/residents. Or any indication of the employment status of the sample.

The CU Christmas survey shows that the expected average spend for 2012 was €527 and that 83% were funding that from normal income, normal savings or dedicated Christmas savings. I cannot make that correlate to 1.6 million adults having only €50 for discretionary/emergency spending every month.

http://www.creditunion.ie/communications/pressreleases/

http://www.creditunion.ie/communications/pressreleases/2012/title,7037,en.php

I also see a NI version of the What's Left survey which I just glanced through, all doom and gloom. But I couldn't see any mention of their much higher property tax being a factor in peoples' misery.

Hijpo

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Surely we can keep the debate about the property tax and not about who can and cannot afford membership of a golf course. That's no ones business. When either side of the debate gets bogged down in stuff like this you lose credibility much like Noonan and his stupid sky subscription comments.

He asked the question as to how someone knows hes comfortable, i gave examples as to how i know he is comfortable and in no position to insult someone by saying he/she is not struggling because they can watch TVs a and are not looking for coke bottles in a dump.
Again, would anyone like to tell Donny I'm devastated that he put me on ignore?

bgrizzley

i cant remember many people(maybe one or two)on this thread saying they couldnt afford this tax.
i think most people on here have the foresight and common sense to try and stop it before it reaches that point (which it surely will)

Ghandee

bgrizzley wrote: »

i cant remember many people(maybe one or two)on this thread saying they couldnt afford this tax.
i think most people on here have the foresight and common sense to try and stop it before it reaches that point (which it surely will)

I for one (and I know I'm not representative of everyone of the no camp) could afford to go out right now, this evening and spend many times the expected cost of the property tax.

Why would I though?

I've already spent the guts of it already.

Motor tax was renewed, €700
2 x GP visits, €100
1 x A&E visit with an x-ray, €100
Price of my refuse collection went up to €28 p/m this month, so 12 x 28 = €336
Youngest daughter had her 12 week check up, €50
(guess here) toll tag cost, €150 (m50 and m1 to contend with) = €150
Residents association fund, €100

There's the guts of fifteen hundred euro either already paid out (in January) or will need to be factored in to my costs this year already. €1500!

Would DX care to explain to folk here not familiar with what services go with the 'higher property tax in the north' and just how many of the above mentioned charges would actually be free, or at a much, much lower rate than what I've paid out already this year?

Cathyht

There are some excellent posters here with very valid points against the Property Tax. Without going into great detail, it does have to be taken into consideration the many LOW taxes afforded to citizens of other countries who are paying a poll tax, or property tax. e.g. cigarette, petrol, alcohol, no tv licence. So like is not being compared with like when it is bandied about 'Other countries pay it'.

We are a very highly taxed nation. We have suffered austerity a long enough time to realise we need to boost the economy with employment and we need to have other forms of revenue, plus reductions in WASTE of Government, local council and Seanad spending. Companies can be encouraged here, the IT industry and Pharma are still doing well in Ireland. To hear of further taxation on a smaller workforce, even taxing people who aren't working for having their own home, it doesn't make sense. All the more so when the very people paid huge salaries and extras of taxpayers' money are the ones increasing the taxes. These are also the very ones who last October voted without opposition for an extra week off in the Dail. This is one workplace which we all agree is the least densely populated during their very short working terms.

If some of the posters on here wish for a medal for paying this tax bill and have such pride in not opposing it, they wouldn't appear to be applying to the correct forum for recognition. I'm sure the Taoiseach or Minister for Finance would be pleased to send you an award/medal/plaque/trophy - for a 'reasonable' fee. Or perhaps you could appear in the paper. This would better serve your need for attention and recognition for your wonderful and immediate acquiesence to this new tax.

However, it is not acceptable people come on here and disparagingly attack people who, for very valid reasons IN A DEMOCRACY have decided that this is a tax too far. I am surprised that one or two posters who are really just repeating that they paid it, are still here, page after page. They have been very insulting to some posters earnestly opposing this tax. I have reported 4 postings of one particular Pro Tax poster.

GREAT, fantastic, you paid it, you wish to accept this tax, it would appear you did not endure undue hardship paying it, you paid without the slightest protest. Wonderful for you. But many others have various reasons to oppose it. They perhaps CANNOT afford it, or find it unfair, or unconstitutional, or consider they have paid a huge amount of tax on their home already. Maybe it's as simple as thinking it will just be squandered along with all the other loans and taxes on highly paid, tax-scrounging Government representatives. Whatever the reasons, a lot of people wish to challenge it. If we win and Property tax is abolished, you may continue paying if you wish. If the tax is not abolished, you get to feel really, really proud you paid it and you were right and accepting immediately. You can feel smug, so seeing it's a win-win situation, why are you so rude attacking people who are giving their reasons to oppose it? You obviously have no pity for those who cannot afford it, and who will have the burden and headache of a charge placed on their homes.

I am putting more effort into other avenues than reading the Pro Property Tax postings. In fairness, they must be gaining in some way (either in their private life gaining attention, or through some avenue in their professional life) from enforcing time and again the reasons why they paid it and attacking anything written opposing paying it. This tax was abolished before, other laws have been challenged and changed, we can challenge it and there IS a chance, if enough people don't pay, if there is enough pressure from voters, that this tax will be scrapped. Now why would anybody not in Inland Revenue, or FG, or the Government, oppose that?

HabeasCorpus

Agreed with the above. A lot of time and effort is wasted with a few people telling us how good we have it, and basically to pay up. It really is suspicious.

Instead of even giving them credence, our energies need to be focused on real action which will make a difference rather than wasted in this way. To take the excellent advice of one 'pro' person, just block anyone causing unnecessary contention. They seem to remain here even though they've been reported, ignored they will not attain the attention they appear to crave.

Instead use the precious time and energy to work out HOW to approach the political parties, to organise protests and to gather the information which is really convincing for lobbying against the Household charge and the implementation of the new, ever rising Property Tax. I agree the posters on here have all the information, links and points. We just need to use our time and energy in a productive way. If people want to pay, great. If not, let's start getting to the marches, putting information out there, DOING something.

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

I think I am the one best placed to decide whether or not I support something.

It only takes a few good men

---

to look the other way, so that tyrants may get away with tyranny.
DH