Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

Oh I see my suggestion has gathered momentum.


So, you're all agreed, a picket at the homes of govt officials is 'too far?'

dxhound2005

Cathyht wrote: »

Live in a democracy much as I despise it? Me despise democracy? You are not allowed to make such an inaccurate leap and put words in my mouth. I and the many other people prepared to hold back and challenge this tax, are a part of this democracy. More people have not paid than have. Do you even have the intellect to deduct what that means in a democracy?

You are so foolish if you think I don't see through you, you are immediately on my block list. I cannot give your moronic, inaccurate comments any credence. Even your crude, simplistic debate style is transparent. You are pro this tax because you have an agenda which benefits you personally. And not the general good will for all we're reputed to benefit from by paying every penny we have to tax.

You and the likes are sucking the life from people via their taxes one way or another, it is so blatant. Do not put words in my mouth you traitorous blackheart, or underestimate my intelligence. I am fully supporting of democracy. I demand you take that comment back on this thread, to prove that there is not inconsistent moderating on this board.

Give me the figures you have for how many have paid and not paid.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Oh I see my suggestion has gathered momentum.


So, you're all agreed, a picket at the homes of govt officials is 'too far?'

Go for it Ghandee. Its been in the 'ideas' phase for to long. Time to move it into the 'actions' phase.

When can we expect to see you on the telly?

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Go for it Ghandee. Its been in the 'ideas' phase for to long. Time to move it into the 'actions' phase.

When can we expect to see you on the telly?

I'll do a deal with you.

As soon as the govt get their first successful prosecution against a singular, owner occupied, homeowner for being unable to pay the hhc, I'll personally set up a campaign.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

I'll do a deal with you.

As soon as the govt get their first successful prosecution against a singular, owner occupied, homeowner for being unable to pay the hhc, I'll personally set up a campaign.

Why not set one up now all these mass protests have been talked about here for long enough isn't it time for action.

There was a stage where we were reading here about how when the first person appears in court there'd be uproar and riots yet when it happened we were reading here about how that case doesn't count because blah blah blah

Cathyht

I think there is a three prong approach on this thread, of attack, undermine and dishearten.

It is actually backfiring and fueling the debate and revealing more reasons why NOT to pay, rather than quelling it. So keep up the good work you 3, you know who you are. The most faint hearted could not help standing their ground against your advocacy of mindless submission and paying anything at all - because it has been deemed law. (By people who are not capable enough to run the country, and not intelligent enough to rule on legislation. Equally they are rarely in the Dail to vote on any new legislation.)

I have you Pro Tax Dictators all on block now but thank you, your sneering contempt incited me to attend the meetings, and put my efforts into rising against this tax, and the current Government every way I can. Definitely I am more focused and action oriented now.

Plenty of people have risen from the edge of their seats and attended meetings, over 100 people were at one small village meeting, a few miles from my town, last Thursday night alone. Lots of other protesters have written and gained support against this tax on social network, newspaper, writing to RTE; VB show, etc. I have used many other means of publicising and protesting against the HC & PT. Not least of all, contacting TDs in writing I've alreaady attended several 'clinics'. I was pleasantly surprised to see I was not alone there.

There are those happily employed in a sector, who remain unimpacted by this recession, but many people are feeling the strain. This stress is increasing as there are more taxes. What of these people? Are they to be taxed until they are forming shanti towns? Shall they then receive reprieve from the harsher taxes? A few of Ireland's winters without heating and the Live Register will certainly reduce. Are those in Government aware how many people could not afford to heat their homes during the cold weather? When the current Interest Only terms one mortgages cease, increasingly numbers of those willing to pay a tax on their home, will not be able.

This tax will bring down the government. Any candidate for the Dail will face this hurdle before being elected, voters will demand this to be abolished for their vote. It is suicide for the Government to continue with this tax.

This is a no brainer, the power is simply with the people. There are more people opposing this tax than there are farmers, they can protest and get their 8 billion payments brought forward. We can protest, in many ways to hurt this government.

As I am a strong believer in democracy, let's have a vote on Property Tax?

Am Chile

Minister Michael Noonan has said people who invest in
their homes by adding extensions may have to pay extra property tax.

The
new tax which comes into effect later this year will be self-assessed, but based
on the value of the property.

Responding to questions in the Dáil, the
Finance Minister said if an owner increases the value of his or her property by
building on, they will be liable for extra tax.

"If you have an extension
built and all your neighbours are saying 'My house is between €150,000 and
€200,000, but you put another €75,000 (or so) onto it by way of extension, then
the normal thing is you go up to the next band, and the tax will apply (at the
higher rate)," he said.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/extensions-may-attract-extra-property-tax-581395.html

There will be no incentive for people to do any type of extensions or renovations now with the imposition of the property tax.People who have had extensions etc done to their homes should rightly feel hard done by--over a period of time it is going to cost jobs and money for people working in the building industry, why the fcuk would anyone want anyone want to get any extensions built onto their home if they know they re gonna be further penalised for it.

Cathyht

How can a price be put on houses when in some areas houses are simply not saleable? Other areas you would wait a very long time to shift a house. The recent asking price for a home near my father, was considered very reasonable at 150,000 euros, (previously one sold there - 18 months ago - for almost 200,000). The seller of the more recent house needed the money, so after waiting since last Summer, he sold last week for under 80,000 euros. He sold to emigrate, wise man. I guarantee you the houses in that area will be assessed as being worth nearer 200,000, rather than 80,000. Which is the true value? Who can really decide?

How can they assess the Actual Value of houses in areas where there is little or no interest in buying a house (not that there is very much movement in the property market anywhere). What about the famous Flood Plains? Nobody will buy those houses, the ACTUAL value is €0. The supposed value and actual value may not recognise each other if they met in the street.

It is unfair that people who borrowed, or did not pay off their mortgage as quickly because of home improvements, now are being penalised because they increased the value of their home. Especially when this is a very subjective, perceived value, unless there is a bid on a home, and a genuine buyer prepared to sign on the bottom line, I really don't think you can say your house would sell at all. A lot of houses would hardly shift if they were for nothing.

Le_Dieux

Now only 65% of the intake will be spent locally, according to this piece in the Indo:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-insists-65pc-of-property-tax-will-be-spent-locally-3358378.html

Do these folk in DE have ANY idea where the money is going? One day ( we are told ) all to local authorities, now we have this???

Is it any wonder there is such resentment to a) The HHC/PT & b) The bunch masquerading as a government?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

I'll do a deal with you.

As soon as the govt get their first successful prosecution against a singular, owner occupied, homeowner for being unable to pay the hhc, I'll personally set up a campaign.

You talk the talk Ghandee, but I think its clear now that your not willing to walk the walk.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

You talk the talk Ghandee, but I think its clear now that your not willing to walk the walk.

I've stated position thank you very much.

We're now well into 2013 and there's still no successful prosecutions of homeowners, yeah a landlord (running a business) was summonsed, looks like it was to save face now.

Get the first homeowner someone who lives in the only home they own, mortgaged to the hilt in negative equity before the judge and prosecute them, then i promise to organise mass pickets of TD's family-homes.

One or two a week should suffice, ignoring constituency offices, as they'd simply not turn up to these, the homes would be a much better idea IMO.

12 hour protests, late evening to early morning would do, I'm thinking 7pm throughout the night until 7am. Could even be good fun, flasks of tea and soup could be shared around, protestors could sing songs to keep their spirits up. All protests to be kept peaceful, and private property should not be interfered with under any circumstances.

I think after a single owner-occupied homeowner was prosecuted, my protest organisation would get lost among the rest that would spring up around the country.

No minister/TD from govt parties should be immune to home protests, urban/rural.


Have we a deal?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

I've stated position thank you very much.

We're now well into 2013 and there's still no successful prosecutions of homeowners, yeah a landlord (running a business) was summonsed, looks like it was to save face now.

Get the first homeowner someone who lives in the only home they own, mortgaged to the hilt in negative equity before the judge and prosecute them, then i promise to organise mass pickets of TD's family-homes.

One or two a week should suffice, ignoring constituency offices, as they'd simply not turn up to these, the homes would be a much better idea IMO.

12 hour protests, late evening to early morning would do, I'm thinking 7pm throughout the night until 7am. Could even be good fun, flasks of tea and soup could be shared around, protestors could sing songs to keep their spirits up. All protests to be kept peaceful, and private property should not be interfered with under any circumstances.

I think after a single owner-occupied homeowner was prosecuted, my protest organisation would get lost among the rest that would spring up around the country.

No minister/TD from govt parties should be immune to home protests, urban/rural.


Have we a deal?

Jebus Ghandee, why the hell do you want to make a deal with me?

You've identified a strategy that you think would be very successful, why not just move this strategy into a plan and move the plan into action?
You'll never defeat the LPT if you don't have the courage of your own convictions.

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Now only 65% of the intake will be spent locally, according to this piece in the Indo:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-insists-65pc-of-property-tax-will-be-spent-locally-3358378.html

Do these folk in DE have ANY idea where the money is going? One day ( we are told ) all to local authorities, now we have this???

Is it any wonder there is such resentment to a) The HHC/PT & b) The bunch masquerading as a government?

The remainder will be transferred to other local authorities.
This has always been the case; money raised in richer areas like Dublin is transferred to poorer areas like Donegal.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Jebus Ghandee, why the hell do you want to make a deal with me?

You've identified a strategy that you think would be very successful, why not just move this strategy into a plan and move the plan into action?
You'll never defeat the LPT if you don't have the courage of your own convictions.

You sound like someone who is clearly not convinced any successful prosecutions are on the cards lol. :pac:

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

The remainder will be transferred to other local authorities.
This has always been the case; money raised in richer areas like Dublin is transferred to poorer areas like Donegal.

Further similarities to rates in the north I see.

Kinda throws the old 'heavily subsidised by UK tax payers' life of defence out the window:cool:

Let's hope Dublin homeowners revolt further.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Let's hope Dublin homeowners revolt further.

We can all see who won't be doing any revolting. All talk, but no action, Ghandee.

donalg1

Cathyht wrote: »

I think there is a three prong approach on this thread, of attack, undermine and dishearten.

It is actually backfiring and fueling the debate and revealing more reasons why NOT to pay, rather than quelling it. So keep up the good work you 3, you know who you are. The most faint hearted could not help standing their ground against your advocacy of mindless submission and paying anything at all - because it has been deemed law. (By people who are not capable enough to run the country, and not intelligent enough to rule on legislation. Equally they are rarely in the Dail to vote on any new legislation.)

I have you Pro Tax Dictators all on block now but thank you, your sneering contempt incited me to attend the meetings, and put my efforts into rising against this tax, and the current Government every way I can. Definitely I am more focused and action oriented now.

Plenty of people have risen from the edge of their seats and attended meetings, over 100 people were at one small village meeting, a few miles from my town, last Thursday night alone. Lots of other protesters have written and gained support against this tax on social network, newspaper, writing to RTE; VB show, etc. I have used many other means of publicising and protesting against the HC & PT. Not least of all, contacting TDs in writing I've alreaady attended several 'clinics'. I was pleasantly surprised to see I was not alone there.

There are those happily employed in a sector, who remain unimpacted by this recession, but many people are feeling the strain. This stress is increasing as there are more taxes. What of these people? Are they to be taxed until they are forming shanti towns? Shall they then receive reprieve from the harsher taxes? A few of Ireland's winters without heating and the Live Register will certainly reduce. Are those in Government aware how many people could not afford to heat their homes during the cold weather? When the current Interest Only terms one mortgages cease, increasingly numbers of those willing to pay a tax on their home, will not be able.

This tax will bring down the government. Any candidate for the Dail will face this hurdle before being elected, voters will demand this to be abolished for their vote. It is suicide for the Government to continue with this tax.

This is a no brainer, the power is simply with the people. There are more people opposing this tax than there are farmers, they can protest and get their 8 billion payments brought forward. We can protest, in many ways to hurt this government.

As I am a strong believer in democracy, let's have a vote on Property Tax?

Surely someone who is actually out protesting would have more of an issue with those that pretend to be protesting by sitting at home doing nothing.

There may be more non payers than farmers but you will never get them all protesting most will talk about it and then do nothing. That's what I have a problem with, if you are going to protest well then thats great fair play to you. But don't bother claiming there will be mass protests when this and that happens and then do nothing yourself when these things actually happen, just move the goalposts to save face then make claims about something else being the catalyst for mass protests.

All talk and no action is the way for a lot round here

dr.bollocko

Pippa Middleton's Arse wrote: »

Mod

Do not call people out as trolls or re-reg's please. Report.

Do not keep on harping on about what people believe or work at. There are 25,000 posts on this subject over three seperate threads, feel feel to qoute from any of those to make a point. It's creepy to stalk people across other fora or use data in their profile.

The stupid digs and double teaming is tiresome, stop it please.

A few posters infracted. From here on it, it is straight thread ban.

Think very very carefully before you post.

Fair warning.

mod:

Have we all forgotten about this?

If you continue to make dickish digs at each other that's it. You will be prevented from further commenting on this topic in AH.

So think hard, the next time you post, if your snide little digs are actually worth it.

Fair warning.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Surely someone who is actually out protesting would have more of an issue with those that pretend to be protesting by sitting at home doing nothing.

There may be more non payers than farmers but you will never get them all protesting most will talk about it and then do nothing. That's what I have a problem with, if you are going to protest well then thats great fair play to you. But don't bother claiming there will be mass protests when this and that happens and then do nothing yourself when these things actually happen, just move the goalposts to save face then make claims about something else being the catalyst for mass protests.

All talk and no action is the way for a lot round here

What protests have you attended?

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

The remainder will be transferred to other local authorities.
This has always been the case; money raised in richer areas like Dublin is transferred to poorer areas like Donegal.

go away outa that, with your richer areas like dublin. i get sweet fcuk all for paying my taxes only the pleasure in knowing i subsidise your street lights.;)

your comment shows one thing the government have been successful at though.

Division, division, division.

divide rural and urban.

divide the nurses

divide the teachers

divide public and private sectors.

i can hear the hushed tones in Backroom Kildare st., "Divide the fools and we can do anything we put our mind to, we can have it all!"

bgrizzley

donalg1 wrote: »

Surely someone who is actually out protesting would have more of an issue with those that pretend to be protesting by sitting at home doing nothing.

There may be more non payers than farmers but you will never get them all protesting most will talk about it and then do nothing. That's what I have a problem with, if you are going to protest well then thats great fair play to you. But don't bother claiming there will be mass protests when this and that happens and then do nothing yourself when these things actually happen, just move the goalposts to save face then make claims about something else being the catalyst for mass protests.

All talk and no action is the way for a lot round here

it must really get on your wick that 700k people protesting by withholding the price of a half pint per week gets more attention than every vote you will ever scratch down on a piece of paper .
time for you to get off the fence donal. dont be ashamed of being on the yes side, ye gave it a fair auld shot.

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

go away outa that, with your richer areas like dublin. i get sweet fcuk all for paying my taxes only the pleasure in knowing i subsidise your street lights.;)

your comment shows one thing the government have been successful at though.

Division, division, division.

divide rural and urban.

divide the nurses

divide the teachers

divide public and private sectors.

i can hear the hushed tones in Backroom Kildare st., "Divide the fools and we can do anything we put our mind to, we can have it all!"

Its not a matter of creating divisions - its just a matter of facts.
Some of the figures were posted in an Irish Economy thread a while back, with links to the source data if you're interested.

I for one am happy to share some of my wealth with my poorer countrymen.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

I for one am happy to share some of my wealth with my poorer countrymen.

Pm sent with address with which to send fifty quid till payday :pac:

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

I for one am happy to share some of my wealth with my poorer countrymen.

If only that`s where it was going.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

What protests have you attended?

None but I'm not on here pretending to be protesting or saying I will protest or that there will be mass protests and the hhc will be scrapped as a result.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

None but I'm not on here pretending to be protesting or saying I will protest or that there will be mass protests and the hhc will be scrapped as a result.

Well then, you fall into this category.

sitting at home doing nothing.

When you, by your own admission are 'anti hhc and anti property tax' but you might wanna take a seat and brace yourself for this shocking news.

Registering and paying is not usually considered a good way to show you're 'anti hhc'.

Even the folks who've refused to register, yet not attended a protest March have did something.

The harsh reality that the folk who are

sitting at home doing nothing.

yet 'are anti tax' like yourself, are hypocritical.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

I for one am happy to share some of my wealth with my poorer countrymen.

Why do you say that the Politicians and the Bankers are poor?

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Pm sent with address with which to send fifty quid till payday :pac:

That'd just be a loan. My interest rate is what the bond markets were charging us before the current Government took over.

darkhorse wrote: »

Why do you say that the Politicians and the Bankers are poor?

Poorer than me, I meant.

Izzy Skint

Ghandee wrote: »

I've stated position thank you very much.

We're now well into 2013 and there's still no successful prosecutions of homeowners, yeah a landlord (running a business) was summonsed, looks like it was to save face now.

Get the first homeowner someone who lives in the only home they own, mortgaged to the hilt in negative equity before the judge and prosecute them, then i promise to organise mass pickets of TD's family-homes.

One or two a week should suffice, ignoring constituency offices, as they'd simply not turn up to these, the homes would be a much better idea IMO.

12 hour protests, late evening to early morning would do, I'm thinking 7pm throughout the night until 7am. Could even be good fun, flasks of tea and soup could be shared around, protestors could sing songs to keep their spirits up. All protests to be kept peaceful, and private property should not be interfered with under any circumstances.

I think after a single owner-occupied homeowner was prosecuted, my protest organisation would get lost among the rest that would spring up around the country.

No minister/TD from govt parties should be immune to home protests, urban/rural.


Have we a deal?

Ghandee, i agree, protesting outside TD's homes is necessary and should be just one of the weapons in our arsenal....what we will need to defeat this is mass protest / civil disobedience on a regular basis.

I have read through the lpt legislation, those bastards have handed this over to revenue, they have covered all their bases (or so they think), they have introduced / changed laws to allow them to do this. They are targetting paye workers primarily, these will be the first to be hit. Employers will obey any legislation (i work for a muti-national and they will do whatever revenue say believe me), in effect, they may be able to bypass the homeowner altogether. I can go out and protest on the street but I have no influence over my employer. Govt. fcukers know this, they seem to have us by the short and curlies...
If this ends up with my employer deducing money from me without my consent I will go beserk...my anger will multiply but none of it will be directed towards my employer, it will all be towards the GOVT. ....FINE GAEL AND LABOUR TD'S.

It never ceases to amaze me that when it comes to raising tax revenue how inventive / ingenious / active these fcukers can be.....on the other hand it can take them decades to act on other serious issues....but then these other issues don't raise revenue for them !!!
This lpt is basically a method for the gutless, useless govt. to reduce the need for greater spending cuts which they are unwilling / unable or afraid to introduce...they are incapable of breaking contracts, taking on unions, cutting salaries and pensions , reform, streamlining, increasing productivity etc.

We will have to be prepared for "action" by a large number of people...it is the only way to defeat this act of treason on the Irish people.

flutered

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Ghandee, i agree, protesting outside TD's homes is necessary and should be just one of the weapons in our arsenal....what we will need to defeat this is mass protest / civil disobedience on a regular basis.

I have read through the lpt legislation, those bastards have handed this over to revenue, they have covered all their bases (or so they think), they have introduced / changed laws to allow them to do this. They are targetting paye workers primarily, these will be the first to be hit. Employers will obey any legislation (i work for a muti-national and they will do whatever revenue say believe me), in effect, they may be able to bypass the homeowner altogether. I can go out and protest on the street but I have no influence over my employer. Govt. fcukers know this, they seem to have us by the short and curlies...
If this ends up with my employer deducing money from me without my consent I will go beserk...my anger will multiply but none of it will be directed towards my employer, it will all be towards the GOVT. ....FINE GAEL AND LABOUR TD'S.

It never ceases to amaze me that when it comes to raising tax revenue how inventive / ingenious / active these fcukers can be.....on the other hand it can take them decades to act on other serious issues....but then these other issues don't raise revenue for them !!!
This lpt is basically a method for the gutless, useless govt. to reduce the need for greater spending cuts which they are unwilling / unable or afraid to introduce...they are incapable of breaking contracts, taking on unions, cutting salaries and pensions , reform, streamlining, increasing productivity etc.

We will have to be prepared for "action" by a large number of people...it is the only way to defeat this act of treason on the Irish people.

add to the above, under the cloud of the knacker burgers, joan burton brought in lrglistation to allow her department to deduct the house hold charge from the dole and all other social welfare payments, now we have the senario where a homeowner in negitave liquity, unable to pay their morgage while unemployed having the household charge deducted from their dole money, also the disabled probaply the hardest hit by the last few budgets having their household charge deducted from their megre living allowance, what happened outside the dail will be replicated all over the country.