Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

K-9

notinmyname wrote: »

I drive a 10 year old diesel vw golf, TDI and the tax is £135 so expensive enough.

I'm sorry. I seem to have lots of things that I misunderstood. Are you telling me that I have to pay for my bins as well as my property tax?
The reason I ask is because I was of the impression that the property tax was to supercede the bin charges etc.

I'm no expert on car tax but you generally pay more here based on emissions, many newer cars have low levels of car tax. No doubt somebody will correct me and rightly so.

notinmyname wrote: »

I am sorry for the misunderstanding guys.
I was of the belief that this proprty tax was the same as the Welsh council tax system that once paid covered all other services for the year.

I do not wish to get bogged down in arguments from either side on this, but rightly or wrong I have not got my facts straight before writing my thoughts.
Bit unreal that you have to pay for services and pay for a council tax on top of the services.

In rural areas you see very little for it, the odd pothole filled in, maybe a library that would have had its opening hours cut in the last few years, a small stretch of back road tarred if cars are getting damaged travelling it.

Towns, well you'll probably have a library open 9-5 5 days a week though services again have been cut, older council estates might get the greens cut, bit of road maintenance, main roads gritted, estates will not be, you'll get a mound of grit left at the estate entrance if you ask nicely, up to the residents to shovel it themselves.

The Council only take over private estates after 10 or so years, some estates had bother with that during the boom time with developers not finishing works or absconding. Imagine what it is going to be like in 5 years time with all the ghost estates dotted around the country, no developer to be found, very little work done and NAMA and the banks owning the vast majority of them.

m4r10

K-9 wrote: »

I'm no expert on car tax but you generally pay more here based on emissions, many newer cars have low levels of car tax. No doubt somebody will correct me and rightly so.

It's true if the car is newer than July 2008, for older cars tax is by cc not emission rate:
http://www.irishlinks.co.uk/car-tax-ireland.htm

Am Chile

I said before a few times council tenants would be hit with by the property tax with increases in their rent.

More
than 125,000 local authority tenants face rent increases as councils look set to
pass on the property tax.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0123/1224329191153.html

More people set to be effected this time compared with the household charge last year, more people will likely turn out to public meetings now,

Le_Dieux

Bruthal wrote: »

Property tax, bin charges, water charges, all separate.

We are told the property tax is for services, yet we will be billed for other services.

Also, it is possible our motor tax is a lot more expensive than over there. If we are going to compare like with like, its worth mentioning that, assuming it is actually more expensive.

We were also told that the hhc/pt was to be solely for the area that it was paid into. Yet Kenny at the weekend says only 65% of the monies are for local investment.

People are also scared as to what happens next year, year after etc.

Mixed signals mixed signals!

bgrizzley

Approximately 25 protesters converged on the Labour TD’s office at 12noon today in an effort to question Deputy Nolan on his vote in favour of the introduction of the controversial tax.

Deputy Nolan cancelled his public clinic and closed his office at Galway Harbour ahead of the protest but Conor Burke of the CAHWT told the Galway Independent this afternoon that they would continue to seek answers from the TD.


http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/5606/2013-4/TD-closes-office-ahead-of-tax-protest

Le_Dieux

So, Enda, You have let those 2 vultures ( Noonan and BFP) loose threatening us with all kinds of fines if we don't pay our HHC/PT. Now show Your leadership and commitment to doing something to sort out this country's mess - why not start with this?:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-distances-himself-from-former-ministers-lavish-pensions-3362931.html#disqus_thread

Or, have You not got the balls?

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

We were also told that the hhc/pt was to be solely for the area that it was paid into.

We weren't.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Yet Kenny at the weekend says only 65% of the monies are for local investment.

He didn't.

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

More people set to be effected this time compared with the household charge last year, more people will likely turn out to public meetings now, [/COLOR]

One of the big complaints was that LA tenants were getting off without paying anything, so increasing LA rents should decrease, not increase, opposition to the LPT.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

We weren't.

http://www.laois.ie/YourCouncil/Departments/Finance/ServiceCharges/HouseholdCharge/

Looks like the first and only one I checked said it in the last paragraph.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

http://www.laois.ie/YourCouncil/Departments/Finance/ServiceCharges/HouseholdCharge/

Looks like the first and only one I checked said it in the last paragraph.

That link doesn't say anything about HHC raised in Laois going solely to Laois.

Incidentally, Laois is a net recipient of transfers from other counties, so they actually get more than they raise locally, so that probably wasn't the best one for you to post as an example.

Slick50

dvpower wrote: »

That link doesn't say anything about HHC raised in Laois going solely to Laois.

From Laois, local authority...

Where does your money go?
The €100 will go towards paying for essential local services: public parks;
libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities; planning and development; fire and
emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets and street lighting

From Kildare, local authority...

What will the household charge finance?

Revenues from the household charge will support the provision of local services. Internationally, local services are administered by local authorities and financed by local service charges. In Ireland, local authorities are responsible for, among other services, fire and emergency services, maintenance and cleaning of streets, street lighting, planning and development services, public parks, libraries, open spaces and leisure facilities, etc. These are essential local services which benefit all members of the public, including business.

I suspect you'd find the same on all Co. Co. sites. Just weaselly words then.... surprise!

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

That link doesn't say anything about HHC raised in Laois going solely to Laois.

Incidentally, Laois is a net recipient of transfers from other counties, so they actually get more than they raise locally, so that probably wasn't the best one for you to post as an example.

Maybe you could take out the marbles again

dvpower

Slick50 wrote: »

From Laois, local authority...
From Kildare, local authority...I suspect you'd find the same on all Co. Co. sites. Just weaselly words then.... surprise!

The money is going to fund local services - that much is clear (and I'm glad at least that we're finished with the whole 'its going to the banksters' silliness), but none of those quotes say that it all stays in the LA area where it is collected. So some money raised in Dublin, goes towards local services in Donegal.

Everyone knows that most counties receive subventions from a few rich counties - something that anyone living outside Dublin, Wicklow, Meath and Kildare should be happy about.

dvpower

Bruthal wrote: »

Maybe you could take out the marbles again

No idea what you're on about here.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

No idea what you're on about here.

Marbles

Slick50

bgrizzley wrote: »

Deputy Nolan cancelled his public clinic and closed his office at Galway Harbour ahead of the protest...
http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/5606/2013-4/TD-closes-office-ahead-of-tax-protest

I seen Bernard Durkan at a local funeral recently, looking very sheepish and didn't hang around for very long.

These guys should be confronted at every clinic they hold, and reminded of the effect their "hard deccissions" have on peoples daily lives.

dvpower

Bruthal wrote: »

Marbles

I'd forgotten about that post, but its nice to see that some of my pearls of wisdom are sticking.
I'm impressed (with myself).

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

I'd forgotten about that post, but its nice to see that some of my pearls of wisdom are sticking.
I'm impressed (with myself).

It might have been more good memory, than pearls of wisdom:)

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

Approximately 25 protesters converged on the Labour TD’s office at 12noon today in an effort to question Deputy Nolan on his vote in favour of the introduction of the controversial tax.

Deputy Nolan cancelled his public clinic and closed his office at Galway Harbour ahead of the protest but Conor Burke of the CAHWT told the Galway Independent this afternoon that they would continue to seek answers from the TD.


http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/5606/2013-4/TD-closes-office-ahead-of-tax-protest

There are some deeply undemocratic forces at work in the country. Their pretence to represent the interests of the owners of private property is shockingly cynical. There are elements there who only want to disrupt the capitalist system and who would seize all private property for their utopian socialist workers republic. Seek answers means intimidate. Apart from closing down the opportunity for constituents to meet their TD's they have also threatened to disrupt court proceedings. As I say deeply undemocratic.

nice_very

CAWHT should get people out on the 9th march and shout down any suggestion from the unions of a writedown on debt, this is being planned where I am



@dxhound.. deasy did the same when cawht Waterford visited his office (not sure if he was there or not)

spygirl

Cathyht wrote: »

Yes, Tayto. You've made some valid points.

Also why are working people in council houses, who have a very low mortgage or small rent not charged this tax? Yet people who own their own home, who may be trying to pay large mortgages from social welfare payments, they MUST pay? Am I right that this is the situation? Even if an unemployed person living in their own home has a large mortgage and is only paying interest only, they could easily be paying more to have a roof over their heads than a lot of employed people in council homes. Does anyone know the detail regarding this? This couldn't be the situation, where people with jobs in council homes are not eligible, could it?

In general, I just don't think people after working to have a home of their own, still must pay tax after all the tax paid from Sale agreed until the last mortgage payment. They will never be free of paying for their home. The reason I sacrificed to put so much into paying my mortgage etc etc., was that I thought, well, that will be my home paid for. Projecting into the future I assessed if I needed to do renovations when the building is over 30 years, at least I won't have the mortgage or rent. I was trying to plan ahead and be more or less self sufficient on retirement. Now there has been legislation with lightening speed to lumber us with this tax.

Also if people are renting a council house, the council does their repair and maintenance. This is a fact, I have worked in the housing section of a council.

people living in council houses with jobs will not pay the tax. an unemployed person who does not qualify for mortgage interest supplement will be liable for the tax.

However have seen it stated that the local authority will be charged, so assume this will be charged back to the tenants. Could be wrong but are the rates also based on ability to pay in LA housing?

You are correct people living in council houses do have repairs and maintenance carried out by councils. They have also had upgrades to windows, heating systems etc carried out by the council.

I bought my own home to be secure in my old age and to hopefully have something to pass onto my children after I'm gone. I didn't mind paying the mortgage, repairs, upkeep maintenance as it was something that would be mine.

I attend meetings and protest regularly against the charge/tax. Do I wish more people would attend? Yes. Will I stop if they don't? No

It's not based on my ability to pay, nor is it based on my consumption. I can't see what I am to receive in return for this payment and there is no transparency in relation to it.There are plenty of people who are not in a position to pay it. For those people we should all refuse to co operate.

I would have preferred to pay more in income tax or consumption tax instead of having a charge against what I work hard to maintain and pay for.

Slick50

dvpower wrote: »

The money is going to fund local services - that much is clear,

Clear as mud! This is just another revenue raiser, with a new label to coerce people into paying up... with the veiled threat against your home as leverage.

dvpower wrote: »

but none of those quotes say that it all stays in the LA area where it is collected. So some money raised in Dublin, goes towards local services in Donegal.

True. And none of them state that a percentage of what is collected locally will be used in other areas either. It's all a charade anyhow, this just disappears into central funds.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are some deeply undemocratic forces at work in the country. Their pretence to represent the interests of the owners of private property is shockingly cynical. There are elements there who only want to disrupt the capitalist system and who would seize all private property for their utopian socialist workers republic. Seek answers means intimidate. Apart from closing down the opportunity for constituents to meet their TD's they have also threatened to disrupt court proceedings. As I say deeply undemocratic.

Tell me about it:rolleyes:

last i heard protesting was a fundament right in a democracy.
its hardly as if they had Madam Guillotine waiting outside for him...

And they didnt close down the opportunity for constituents to speak, he did.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are some deeply undemocratic forces at work in the country. Their pretence to represent the interests of the owners of private property is shockingly cynical. There are elements there who only want to disrupt the capitalist system and who would seize all private property for their utopian socialist workers republic. Seek answers means intimidate. Apart from closing down the opportunity for constituents to meet their TD's they have also threatened to disrupt court proceedings. As I say deeply undemocratic.

You could see them our around houses in Blackrock soon too from the rumours i'm hearing.

dxhound2005

spygirl wrote: »

people living in council houses with jobs will not pay the tax. an unemployed person who does not qualify for mortgage interest supplement will be liable for the tax.

However have seen it stated that the local authority will be charged, so assume this will be charged back to the tenants. Could be wrong but are the rates also based on ability to pay in LA housing?

You are correct people living in council houses do have repairs and maintenance carried out by councils. They have also had upgrades to windows, heating systems etc carried out by the council.

I bought my own home to be secure in my old age and to hopefully have something to pass onto my children after I'm gone. I didn't mind paying the mortgage, repairs, upkeep maintenance as it was something that would be mine.

I attend meetings and protest regularly against the charge/tax. Do I wish more people would attend? Yes. Will I stop if they don't? No

It's not based on my ability to pay, nor is it based on my consumption. I can't see what I am to receive in return for this payment and there is no transparency in relation to it. There are plenty of people who are not in a position to pay it. For those people we should all refuse to co operate.

I would have preferred to pay more in income tax or consumption tax instead of having a charge against what I work hard to maintain and pay for.

The problem is that even if you succeed in evading the tax nobody can inherit your house until it is paid.

Not in a position to pay? I fail to see how someone can afford to run a private house and not have been able to pay €100 to cover 18 months, whatever about the future. You can refuse to co-operate but if you are trying to get others to do the same that is dangerous for them if they take your advice.

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

Tell me about it:rolleyes:

last i heard protesting was a fundament right in a democracy.
its hardly as if they had Madam Guillotine waiting outside for him...

And they didnt close down the opportunity for constituents to speak, he did.

I don't know anything about Conor Burke who is mentioned in the Galway article. But he calls himself Bolshevik82 on Twitter and this is typical of his writings:

somehow I doubt Trotsky would be to concerned over your opinion of his appearance he’d probably put it down to the shallowness and self obsession of modern society ,another factor in the degeneration of that society perpetuated by a decaying system ;-)


Enver Hoxha couldn't have put it better himself. Do you think he and his ilk are in any way interested in the wellbeing of the petit beurgeois middle classes and their private property?

As the Beatles said "If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao".

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The problem is that even if you succeed in evading the tax nobody can inherit your house until it is paid.

Not in a position to pay? I fail to see how someone can afford to run a private house and not have been able to pay €100 to cover 18 months, whatever about the future. You can refuse to co-operate but if you are trying to get others to do the same that is dangerous for them if they take your advice.

Just to add, Spygirl, this is only if the next government dont send this tax back to oblivion as was done with the last two. a likely scenario seeing as there is little popular support for this even in government, not to mind the opposition. Remember that FG can sometimes be away in their own world,(remember they put a tax on the feet of our children:()

Advise anyone any way you want, you are doing a service to our children and our grandchildren by encouraging people not to burden them with this 21st century Serfdom

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know anything about Conor Burke who is mentioned in the Galway article. But he calls himself Bolshevik82 on Twitter and this is typical of his writings:

somehow I doubt Trotsky would be to concerned over your opinion of his appearance he’d probably put it down to the shallowness and self obsession of modern society ,another factor in the degeneration of that society perpetuated by a decaying system ;-)


Enver Hoxha couldn't have put it better himself. Do you think he and his ilk are in any way interested in the wellbeing of the petit beurgeois middle classes and their private property?

As the Beatles said "If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao".

well he doesnt sound like my cup of tea and i wouldnt stand and protest with him, however i'll defend anyones right to protest, even him. and ill show little respect to any FG TD who will hide away abandoning the people who he represents and who put him where he is.

Big C

property tax and septic tank, Feb 1 coming up fast, Thinking of reg septic tank. Like previous posts my septic was their for 20 yrs, it works but thats all I know about it, I live in very rural area, old council cottage third acre of land, septic tank is about 100yds from house. Reason I presume it works is because I havent been near it in years, problem is I am confined to a wheelchair (MS). I think if it is inspected it will not pass and will be the max cost to put right, maybe €15000, ok I will get €4000 grant but I dont have the balance. I have paid my taxes up to the MS takin over when I left work. I am not looking for sympathy but where do they think I will get €10,000 out of my disabilty pension The only reason I might register my tank is what they could do next ie if I ever tried to sell my house cud I have to pay an extra (what ever amount they come up with for registering after Feb 1st). So between new prop tax and septic tank sh*t I hope bertie and brian and the rest of the *********. I'l stopp here before I get really annoyed.

K-9

dvpower wrote: »

The money is going to fund local services - that much is clear (and I'm glad at least that we're finished with the whole 'its going to the banksters' silliness), but none of those quotes say that it all stays in the LA area where it is collected. So some money raised in Dublin, goes towards local services in Donegal.

Everyone knows that most counties receive subventions from a few rich counties - something that anyone living outside Dublin, Wicklow, Meath and Kildare should be happy about.

You also tend to have the highest incomes in Dublin and surrounding counties. Unless Dublin wants to ring fence its income, which isn't an option, its a fairly redundant point, unless we change the system and maybe designate certain areas as statelets.