Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Chips Lovell

They're a profitable semi-state company.

flutered

i am gone folks,i have recieved a warning, it seems i discissed moderation in fourm, when i suggested that the mods be prepared to run a place name compition. not mant more antis left,

squod

Still don't know anyone who has paid.

bgrizzley

squod wrote: »

Still don't know anyone who has paid.

i know a few, but when they talk about it, they sound like they are ashamed they did...

darkhorse

ilovesleep wrote: »

I see his position is going to be a real job too and not an internship and yet there's many highly qualified and skilled people and even people with masters and much more who only have the opportunity of an internship.

Also, where was this position advertised, I cant seem to find it anywhere.

jprboy

darkhorse wrote: »

Also, where was this position advertised, I cant seem to find it anywhere.

Going by this piece it was advertised on Nov 16 last:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1117/1224326702560.html

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Irish Water, who're a subsidiary of Bord Gais.

And in turn, is owned by, yes, you guessed it, the Irish State.

Chips Lovell

darkhorse wrote: »

And in turn, is owned by, yes, you guessed it, the Irish State.

And you're point is?

darkhorse

jprboy wrote: »

Going by this piece it was advertised on Nov 16 last:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1117/1224326702560.html[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link, I was beginning to think that the position was just another one of the jobs for the boys, that was in prominant positions of employment already, I am so ashamed for thinking these thoughts.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And you're point is?

Well, I was'nt making any point. I was stating facts relative to the discussion.

But, as you ask, I will make a point. The way I see it, if bord gais was to lose all their customers to-morrow for whatever reason, well, the people that are still working there and people on pension currently from the company would continue to be paid. Now, as it is a state owned company, I would imagine that wages/pensions would be paid primarily from taxes, paid by taxpayers that goes into state coffers, much like the public service.

Chips Lovell

I suppose we can worry about that if and when Bord Gais loses all its customers.

As I said, it's got little relevance to the Property Tax.

MadYaker

darkhorse wrote: »

Well, I was'nt making any point. I was stating facts relative to the discussion.

But, as you ask, I will make a point. The way I see it, if bord gais was to lose all their customers to-morrow for whatever reason, well, the people that are still working there and people on pension currently from the company would continue to be paid. Now, as it is a state owned company, I would imagine that wages/pensions would be paid primarily from taxes, paid by taxpayers that goes into state coffers, much like the public service.

Bord Gais is a profitable company, its a semi state so trying to make out that our taxes will be paying this mans salary is nonsense. And your hypothetical situation about Bord Gais losing all there customers it totally irrelevant.

This is supposed to be about the property tax/household charge.

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

Well, I was'nt making any point. I was stating facts relative to the discussion.

But, as you ask, I will make a point. The way I see it, if bord gais was to lose all their customers to-morrow for whatever reason, well, the people that are still working there and people on pension currently from the company would continue to be paid. Now, as it is a state owned company, I would imagine that wages/pensions would be paid primarily from taxes, paid by taxpayers that goes into state coffers, much like the public service.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suppose we can worry about that if and when Bord Gais loses all its customers.

As I said, it's got little relevance to the Property Tax.

O.K., this is your opinion. My opinion, along with others on this thread, is that they are relative.

Chips Lovell

But you haven't really explained why they are related. Where does water come into a conversation about the Property Tax. It was never meant to be covered by it.

Am Chile

New video doing the rounds on social media, phil hogan greeted by protesters today.

bgrizzley

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

But you haven't really explained why they are related. Where does water come into a conversation about the Property Tax. It was never meant to be covered by it.

How are they not related? My LA provides water services and now they want us to pay the property tax on top of our income tax(that currently covers water/waste) to lose that service.
Then to add insult to injury they want us to pay some new company again for this new service?

Smoke and mirrors Vlad....

Chips Lovell

But you were never told that Property Tax would be covering water, were you?

And you aren't paying twice for water, or twice for other local authority services. The portion of your income tax that went to them is now being spent on other stuff.

dvpower

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The portion of your income tax that went to them is now being spent on other stuff.

That's the evil German billionaires, right?

Am Chile

bgrizzley wrote: »

How are they not related? My LA provides water services and now they want us to pay the property tax on top of our income tax(that currently covers water/waste) to lose that service.
Then to add insult to injury they want us to pay some new company again for this new service?

Smoke and mirrors Vlad....

Reading online threads about the planned water tax,what people should bear in mind most of us know the water company (Irish Water ) they re setting up is gonna to be run by Bord Gais, but Bord Gais is also due to be sold off as part of the sale of state assets, which in effect means that once the water taxation is set up, it's going to be privatised in the longer term. which if people allow to happen there will be a very heavy price for people to pay in years to come.

Chips Lovell

Really?

Irish water will be a public utility - there is absolutely no intention to privatise water services. The investment in this sector is key to our strategic interests and legislation will restate the existing prohibition on the privatisation of water assets. Internationally, publicly owned utilities are the norm in the water sector. Any revenue generated by Irish Water will be re-invested in infrastructure, as there is a huge requirement for upgrading our infrastructure and providing new infrastructure over the coming decade.

bgrizzley

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

But you were never told that Property Tax would be covering water, were you?

neither was i informed when i bought my house(and payed a small fortune in tax doing it from the ground up) that the government intended chancing their arm with a property tax.

And you aren't paying twice for water, or twice for other local authority services.

As it happens i am already paying twice for water. i pay my taxes, then i pay privately to pull the water out of the ground then purify it then when it is used(:eek:), purify it again and put it back into the environment.

The portion of your income tax that went to them is now being spent on other stuff.

they should have outlined that other stuff honestly then and duly increased my income tax if necessary. i would have been happy to oblige

bgrizzley

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Really?

absolutely no intention to privatise water services.

time and time again we have been told by the protaxers that only a fool would believe a politician. is this any different?

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

they should have outlined that other stuff honestly then and duly increased my income tax if necessary. i would have been happy to oblige

The Government publish detailed annual budgets - its all in there for you to see.

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

New video doing the rounds on social media, phil hogan greeted by protesters today.

The Shinners out in force - I wonder are they so vociferous about the rates up North.

Am Chile

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Really?

I was waiting for someone to say they won,t privatise water services, lets examine a few facts, Irish Water will be under the ownership of Bord Gais, Bord Gais is set to be sold off under sale of state assets, they might say they don,t plan to privatise water services or sell off Irish Water, I don,t predict they sell Irish Water at the present moment as water taxation isn,t up and running as of yet-when water taxation commences and Irish Water is profitable thats when Irish Water will be sold off and privatised,they can deny it like they denied bin services would be privatised when they first brought in charges for bin services, not everyone is gonna believe them when they deny they intend to privatise water services in the longer term,last but not least
the IMFs record on insisting on water privatization in countries they go into,





http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...storyId=906163

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm20...ep01corp2.html

http://www.newint.org/blog/majority/...privatization/

Chips Lovell

bgrizzley wrote: »

they should have outlined that other stuff honestly then and duly increased my income tax if necessary. i would have been happy to oblige

So you'd be happy to pay one big tax to cover everything rather than several small taxes?

That's fair enough and there are numerous ways of slicing and dicing how your raise revenue.

My own opinion is that having separate charges are a more efficient way of doing it, since loading everything on to Income Tax can negatively affect employment and specifically how much money your raise in Income Tax from employment.

Having separate taxes helps broaden the tax base. And it does introduce an element of choice for the taxpayer. I'm far happier at paying for my own, individual water usage for example rather than paying from a central fund and subsidising those who're wasteful with water. And so on...

Chips Lovell

Am Chile wrote: »

I was waiting for someone to say they won,t privatise water services, lets examine a few facts, Irish Water will be under the ownership of Bord Gais, Bord Gais is set to be sold off under sale of state assets,

Only Bord Gais Energy is being privatised. The rest of it isn't.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

The Government publish detailed annual budgets - its all in there for you to see.

see my post above that statement...

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

But you haven't really explained why they are related. Where does water come into a conversation about the Property Tax.

I can't speak for anyone else, but as far as my particular financial position is concerned, every tax and charge I am paying or will have to pay, all come from 1 income. That, being a matter of fact, is what makes it relative for me.

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

see my post above that statement...

tbh if you live in a world where you think politicians can and do forge the State's annual accounts, then there is really nothing that can help you.