Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

relax carry on

K-9 wrote: »

I don't think we are that out of synch at hitting the high tax level, we've also a very low PRSI rate that compensates for the perceived high tax levels. You'd be crucified by NIC in the UK to give a comparison, pay 3 times the level I'd say.

We also have high tax credits despite the cuts to them a couple of years ago. If you are on 15/20k here you pay little tax and PRSI compared to other countries.

Just some food for thought re our taxation rates.

Did this a few months ago from a yearly point of view. Based on
2012 info.

Results are below on a yearly income of €100000, €50000 and €25000 based on single paye worker with no additional reliefs etc.

€100000
PAYE 30812
USC 6319
PRSI class A 3736
Total €40867 or roughly 41% of total.

€50000
PAYE 10312
USC 2818
PRSI Class A 1736
Total €14866 or roughly 30% of total

€25000
PAYE 1700
USC 1068
PRSI Class A 735
Total €3503 or roughly 14% of total.

K-9

darkhorse wrote: »

At what point in their wages does a worker in the UK start to pay the USC.

About the same time they start paying tax! I see your point, USC is classed as a tax, it doesn't go into the PRSI fund.

bgrizzley

have the pontential of putting your family home at risk

dvpower wrote: »

How does it do that?

its not at the moment, but you yourself couldnt give me assurances that the legislation wouldnt change in the future to mimic the more draconian property tax legislation of other countries. in fact i think i told you that id pay the tax immediately if you could give me that assurance and (to your credit) you wouldnt.



http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/10/real_estate/tax-liens/index.htm
People are losing their homes over unpaid tax bills that, in some cases, add up to just a few hundred dollars

http://www.kxlh.com/news/montana-family-loses-home-due-to-unpaid-property-taxes/
Montana family loses home due to unpaid property taxes

http://news.yahoo.com/property-tax-reform-pennsylvania-needed-now-not-later-205600622.html
Proponents argue that 10,000 Pennsylvanians lose their homes each year [due to delinquent tax payments]


this has happened before in ireland (with motor tax). im not sure of the details but afaik in years gone by if you drove with out motor tax you would be fined and made to pay back the revenue owed.
Today if you do so for a period (could possibly be a month)you car will be siezed. As in the case of the FG senator...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fg-senator-fidelma-healy-eames-admits-her-car-seized-for-no-tax-disc-3188460.html

Under road traffic legislation gardaí are empowered to seize a car if its tax is one month or more out of date or not properly displayed

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

have the pontential of putting your family home at risk

its not at the moment, but you yourself couldnt give me assurances that the legislation wouldnt change in the future to mimic the more draconian property tax legislation of other countries. in fact i think i told you that id pay the tax immediately if you could give me that assurance and (to your credit) you wouldnt.

So, as it stands, failure to pay property tax does not put anyone's home at risk.

Chips Lovell

Am Chile wrote: »

For the moment as Irish Water isn,t fully up and running at this point in time so it wouldn,t be sold off just yet-I should of brought up and pointed out some EU Competion rules earlier,I urge people to read them and understand them they will get the jist of why water charges will lead to water privatization, so lets look at them.



http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:12008E107:EN:NOT



http://host.uniroma3.it/facolta/economia/db/materiali/insegnamenti/562_5677.pdf

EU competion rules stating once a service is charged for and becomes a revenue generating monopoly,like with one only water company (Irish Water ) the state will be required to have water services open to private competition between private companies-at present we have many different private bin companies competing out there at the moment, I picture the same scene ahead with private water companies if the government get their way in the longer term.

I've seen the exact same argument made by Richard Boyd Barrett. But you both seem to be unaware of the fact there are exemptions for what the EU term Services of General Economic Interest (SGEI), where state aid is legal under certain criteria.

In short, what you quoted does not say that state aid to water services is against competition rules, nor does it say that a state has to privatise public water services once it beings charging for them.

If it did, why can a host of other European countries charge for water without privatising the service?

Slick50

relax carry on wrote: »

Just some food for thought re our taxation rates......

€100000
PAYE 30812
USC 6319
PRSI class A 3736
Total €40867 or roughly 41% of total.
Take home €59,133*

€50000
PAYE 10312
USC 2818
PRSI Class A 1736
Total €14866 or roughly 30% of total
Take home €35,133*

€25000
PAYE 1700
USC 1068
PRSI Class A 735
Total €3503 or roughly 14% of total.
Take home €21,497 *

* Type in red, my addition. Pardon the pun.

And if you continue them calculations, you will see that someone earning €100k takes home almost 20% more than the gross earnings of someone on €50k, and more than twice the gross pay of someone on €25k. They're not that hard done by, I know which group I'd prefer to be in.

Slick50

dvpower wrote: »

How does it do that?

Because it can leave you with an outstanding debt on your home, even if you have fully paid for it. It's only a matter of time before some genius decides it's time to collect them "outstanding debts". But we've had your response to that situation before.

dvpower

Slick50 wrote: »

Because it can leave you with an outstanding debt on your home, even if you have fully paid for it. It's only a matter of time before some genius decides it's time to collect them "outstanding debts".

That doesn't put your home in risk any more than any other unpaid debt.

Slick50 wrote: »

But we've had your response to that situation before.

Was it that everyone should pay their lawful taxes in the first place and don't be dressing up simple opportunistic tax evasion as a protest against some perceived inequality?

Ogham

relax carry on wrote: »

Just some food for thought re our taxation rates.

Did this a few months ago from a yearly point of view. Based on
2012 info.

Results are below on a yearly income of €100000, €50000 and €25000 based on single paye worker with no additional reliefs etc.

€100000
PAYE 30812
USC 6319
PRSI class A 3736
Total €40867 or roughly 41% of total.

€50000
PAYE 10312
USC 2818
PRSI Class A 1736
Total €14866 or roughly 30% of total

€25000
PAYE 1700
USC 1068
PRSI Class A 735
Total €3503 or roughly 14% of total.

Some interesting info on taxation levels in Ireland here - looks like the lower paid are doing better here than in other countries . http://www.moneyguideireland.com/personal-taxation-levels-in-ireland.html

Slick50

dvpower wrote: »

That doesn't put your home in risk any more than any other unpaid debt.

That's part of what is unfair about this tax, you can accrue a debt on something you have already paid for in full.

dvpower wrote: »

Was it that everyone should pay their lawful taxes in the first place and don't be dressing up simple opportunistic tax evasion as a protest against some perceived inequality?

No. it was...

dvpower wrote:

Slick50
If their economic circumstances deteriorate to such an extent, rather than the state forcing the sale, the revenue will be there to collect... under your perceived rules.

And while you continue to insist there would be no forced sale, how desperate an economic situation would be allowed to develope before the state decides it can't wait for payment any longer.

Death of the homeowner.

post #390

Banjo String

Ogham wrote: »

Some interesting info on taxation levels in Ireland here - looks like the lower paid are doing better here than in other countries . http://www.moneyguideireland.com/personal-taxation-levels-in-ireland.html

Are you really saying the poorer you are, the luckier you are:D

Ogham

SamHall wrote: »

Are you really saying the poorer you are, the luckier you are:D

No - they are paying a lower percentage of their income in taxes.

(But then we have to pay for bins / doctors / school books - which might not be the case in the other places?

Bruthal

Ogham wrote: »

No - they are paying a lower percentage of their income in taxes.

Income taxes are not the only taxes though. Flat rate taxes such as vat, fuel duty etc, hit lower paid harder than higher paid.

Ogham

Bruthal wrote: »

Income taxes are not the only taxes though. Flat rate taxes such as vat, fuel duty etc, hit lower paid harder than higher paid.

True

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

So, as it stands, failure to pay property tax does not put anyone's home at risk.

I was going to say "Currently no", but thinking about that question , yes it does. its quite possible that someone living in their parents house(their home) all their life and are left the house on their demise will not be able to transfer their home unless they have liquid assets. if they dont have cash they have to sell their home to pay the tax.
so yes sadly not only are FG putting peoples homes at risk, people will inevitably lose their homes if they continue this path.

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

I was going to say "Currently no", but thinking about that question , yes it does. its quite possible that someone living in their parents house(their home) all their life and are left the house on their demise will not be able to transfer their home unless they have liquid assets. if they dont have cash they have to sell their home to pay the tax.
so yes sadly not only are FG putting peoples homes at risk, people will inevitably lose their homes if they continue this path.

You think you own your parent's property?


But not their debts!!!

squod

dvpower wrote: »

You think you own your parent's property?


But not their debts!!!

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Anyone with an ounce of cop-on should oppose this.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

So, as it stands, failure to pay property tax does not put anyone's home at risk.

We won't know until after this year, as its not in force til July.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

You think you own your parent's property?


But not their debts!!!

I just figured out who you are, dv:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l8PLsHxJm9Y

You're the guy at 1:13 asking the questions, are'nt you?

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

That doesn't put your home in risk any more than any other unpaid debt.

Are you now saying that it can potentially put your home at risk, just not any more than any other unpaid debt? I think I understand you now.

darkhorse

Ogham wrote: »

But then we have to pay for bins / doctors / school books - which might not be the case in the other places?

But, then again, the above is only charges as opposed to taxes, so its cushty.

darkhorse

I'm gonna hit the sack now. To all my colleagues, thanks for the dig out (that dv can be very intimidating). I want to thank my mother and father

---

sorry, wrong speech. Anyway, viva democracy (depending who ya are).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeDIb5B4XZ4&feature=player_detailpage

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

We won't know until after this year, as its not in force til July.

You're going to wait 'till then to read the legislation?

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

Are you now saying that it can potentially put your home at risk, just not any more than any other unpaid debt? I think I understand you now.

Hallelujah. It took a while, but you got there in the end.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

You think you own your parent's property?


But not their debts!!!

I never said that. You are always losing when you are making up false arguments.


But im glad you are finally getting it. Your glorious party putting more debt on an already drowning nation.;)

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

You're going to wait 'till then to read the legislation?

Why not. They might just change it.

tayto lover

squod wrote: »

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Anyone with an ounce of cop-on should oppose this.

Take a leaf from the nurses book lads. Less than 80 applied for the 1,000 cut-price jobs.
They were expecting thousands to apply
Well done nurses. Take no bullying.

bgrizzley

tayto lover wrote: »

Take a leaf from the nurses book lads. Less than 80 applied for the 1,000 cut-price jobs.
They were expecting thousands to apply
Well done nurses. Take no bullying.

Good on ye Ladies and Gents, an attempt at dividing workers that has unceremoniously failed. wonder were they saving much between their yellowpack contract and cost on the exchequer to train nurses for the UK and Australian market.


on a brighter note i hear FG/Labour are cutting the wages of all new politicians from the next local elections...:rolleyes:

Am Chile

Was talking to some people I know over the weekend-who live outside in rural areas-their areas are set to be effected with closure of garda stations in their areas-due to this move to take place, they won,t be returning any family home tax returns-they might have the household tax reluctantly last year-but now being asked to pay more money in a family home tax and having their local garda station being closed down has harden some peoples stance on the family home tax-on one hand people are asked to pay a family home tax to support local services and then on the other hand local garda stations are closing in areas resulting in less services-I think this move by shatter to close garda stations is gonna backfire-a lot of people will be asking themselves why the fcuk am I filing a family home tax return when more and more services are being cut-there was a protest already in stepaside dublin yesterday about closure of garda station in that area- with people Dublin set to be asked to be pay the highest family home tax-the folks in stepaside might just question the government line a family home tax will support local services when their local garda station is being closed down-all I can say is well done fine gaelers you have made a lot more people oppose this tax now.

dvpower

Meanwhile, over in Italy, Silvio Berlusconi is promising not only to scrap their property tax, but also refund money paid.

If he doesn't get elected in Italy, he should run here; there's no shortage of people who'll vote for the populist (albeit ridiculous) option here.

Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has vowed to pay back tax on
houses and to abolish the unpopular property tax introduced last year.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/02/04/287151/berlusconi-vows-to-abolish-property-tax/