Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

bgrizzley

ah sure Ghandee, its only 4 million. that wouldnt do anything to solve our problems...

Ghandee

bgrizzley wrote: »

ah sure Ghandee, its only 4 million. that wouldnt do anything to solve our problems...

Bunch of self serving ****.

Roll on 2013 that's when they'll fall!

bgrizzley

stinks of this

and this

http://www.mrporter.com/mrporter/content/journal/160311/behindTheBrand/mainImage.jpg


Well done lads

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Bunch of self serving ****.

Roll on 2013 that's when they'll fall!

How are they any different to those there before? They are the exact same imo, which leads me to believe those that come after them will also be the same.

Am Chile

In todays Irish Independent there is a story councils around the country are owed more then €395m in unpaid development levies-much more money then the household tax.

NEW
figures show that local authorities across the country are cash-strapped as a
result of the property collapse and are owed more than €395
million in development levies.
According
to Environment Minister Phil
Hogan, the highest amount due is to Fingal County Council in north Dublin
where developers owe a staggering €129
million to the local authority.
In
the Dail, Minister Hogan confirmed that at the end of December 2010 local
authorities were owed over €395m.
The
monies from development levies were designed to go towards the funding of
capital projects across the country.

[]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/county-councils-owed-395m-by-developers-3272847.html

Hijpo

Am Chile wrote: »

In todays Irish Independent there is a story councils around the country are owed more then €395m in unpaid development levies-much more money then the household tax.

I wonder if any of the failed developers employed by NAMA on 200k a year have any outstanding levies or repayments that need to be paid to banks

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

I said previously the letters sent recently were probably done electronically as if they were done by a person they would have noticed these discrepancies. As the list is now no doubt shorter maybe the next lot or the lot after that will be checked manually and incidences like the above will be reduced.

At first when I got my letter I was annoyed as I thought well thats just completely stupid (which it is) but now I am starting to think that they are actually doing something to chase the non payers which is a good thing. However, I do still think the wording of the last lot of letters was stupid, saying you may be liable and may have already paid. I mean this is basically saying to the non payers we dont have a clue if you have or havent paid. Hopefully these letters will have reduced their list to those that have not paid and then the next bout of letters will be worded stronger.

Surely the computer would be well able to cross refrence the address's on the paid database with the address's in the electoral register
If you can assign the computer to do the work, how many are sitting on there holes letting these mistakes happen?

What they are doing is the equivilant of fishing for a specific fish with trawler. With the amount of people that have stood there ground (fair play to each and every one of them) they are bound to hit on one or two non payers.

Gombeens of the highest order

Bullseye1

Would you trust the people collecting this household charge with your money after the mess they have made? They probably spent a substantial amount of the money already collected on reminder letters to those who have already paid.

bgrizzley

seems they needed a little time off to spend the extra moolah.


http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tds-unite-to-give-themselves-a-weeks-holiday-571779.html


(in case anyone misses the other thread)

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

Surely the computer would be well able to cross refrence the address's on the paid database with the address's in the electoral register
If you can assign the computer to do the work, how many are sitting on there holes letting these mistakes happen?

What they are doing is the equivilant of fishing for a specific fish with trawler. With the amount of people that have stood there ground (fair play to each and every one of them) they are bound to hit on one or two non payers.

Gombeens of the highest order

Yes the computers are able to cross reference them but if there is one letter in the difference the computer could miss it. How can you keep missing this point? I have been saying this over and over. It would be better for a person to do it however there probably isn't enough staff to do it in the timeframe

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Yes the computers are able to cross reference them but if there is one letter in the difference the computer could miss it. How can you keep missing this point? I have been saying this over and over. It would be better for a person to do it however there probably isn't enough staff to do it in the timeframe

I seen a very interesting article earlier, can't link it as it was via a news app.

Anyway, it claimed that actually 1,88 million were liable, and also that the numbers given by the govt so far had lumped in landlords multiple properties as individual people, and also has included people registering for waivers, which if true, (I've said if, calm down) would bring the compliance rate a lot closer to 50% (or below)

bgrizzley

donalg1 wrote: »

Yes the computers are able to cross reference them but if there is one letter in the difference the computer could miss it. How can you keep missing this point? I have been saying this over and over. It would be better for a person to do it however there probably isn't enough staff to do it in the timeframe

Soundex

donalg1

bgrizzley wrote: »

Soundex

Your point? Do they use soundex?

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

I seen a very interesting article earlier, can't link it as it was via a news app.

Anyway, it claimed that actually 1,88 million were liable, and also that the numbers given by the govt so far had lumped in landlords multiple properties as individual people, and also has included people registering for waivers, which if true, (I've said if, calm down) would bring the compliance rate a lot closer to 50% (or below)

Sure even better then if more are liable.

bgrizzley

donalg1 wrote: »

Your point? Do they use soundex?

if they did they wouldnt be worried about one letter now would they?

Am Chile

Ghandee wrote: »

I seen a very interesting article earlier, can't link it as it was via a news app.

Anyway, it claimed that actually 1,88 million were liable, and also that the numbers given by the govt so far had lumped in landlords multiple properties as individual people, and also has included people registering for waivers, which if true, (I've said if, calm down) would bring the compliance rate a lot closer to 50% (or below)

Can you remember the title of the article so I can look it up.

donalg1

bgrizzley wrote: »

if they did they wouldnt be worried about one letter now would they?

I asked did they use it I am guessing they didn't because they don't have access to it maybe.

Le_Dieux

bgrizzley wrote: »

seems they needed a little time off to spend the extra moolah.


http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tds-unite-to-give-themselves-a-weeks-holiday-571779.html


(in case anyone misses the other thread)

The entire lot of them are so far removed from the real world, it's worrying. And to top the misery off, the Germans go and vote EK 'European of the Year'? I have no doubt they ( the TD's) will also claim travel expenses too:rolleyes:

Hate to say this, but we Irish are the fucking eejits to put up with this shit. Is it any wonder the Troika haven't backed down on the bank debt ( yet anyhow) when we let this mob walk all over us. It's a revolution this country needs - SADLY!

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Which of course have nothing at all to do with whether property tax is sensible / ill-advised, fair/unfair or moral / immoral etc. But I suppose if you haven't any good arguments ......:pac:

You people simply dont get it. Just for one minute, forget about all the arguements from both sides. Just think about it and think about how much the sheer incompetency is costing(the taxpayer again). I think we have already heard from a representitive amount of people, through one media or another, even the head of the LGMA has admitted that they have sent out quite a lot of reminder letters to people that have paid. So, with this in mind, imagine there had been a bigger percentage of people paying the HHC, say 99% for example, well, judging by all we have heard, either on chat shows, read in newspapers, or even heard from the horses mouth, about the volume of reminder letters, in some cases second and third letters, reminders letters were going to be sent to people that have paid anyway, bearing in mind also that maybe a high percentage of these people that have received them, maybe old and frail and some even suffering with major health problems(a person I know with a heart problem paid, but got a letter anyway saying penalties had accrued(imagine the stress), I think you all know where I am going with this, but still thousands of euro's would be wasted sending out letters to people, whether they had paid or not. I'm sorry, but I just dont think that any amount of money is worth worsening the already poor health of people. So, I am saying, if people cannot do the preparatory work that a project like collecting a HHC calls for(and getting a reasonable remuneration for said work, from public purse, btw), that said project should be scrapped. (Probably the drink talking, if so, I'll stop talking)

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

Sure it was only a phone call and it ensures that they know who has paid so anyone left on their list then hasnt paid, thereby making it a little easier for them to compile a list of those that actually havent paid. Or at least thats the theory anyway.

Agreed, its only a phone call, and if it makes their job a little bit easier for them, well and good, which is why they would'nt mind taking the reverse charges on the phone call, as one poster suggested. But, if they were not willing to authorize the reverse charge, even though the caller is helping them to be more efficient at their job, well, an equally good suggestion, which was suggested by a caller to liveline, was to send the original receipt number, in an envelope and to mark it "Freepost" and address it to the relevant agency.

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

Well I would imagine they started a database with the names of those that registered for the HHC and then cross checked this with the electoral register and electronically produced letters and sent them to those that didnt match up. I got a letter because of a slight difference in the address just one letter but this would be missed in the cross reference, and would be picked up by a person if they were checking so this is why I think they were produced electronically.

Now that I have informed them that I have actually paid they can find my name on the HHC list and the other list compare them, see that I have in fact paid and remove me from their cross referenced list leaving those that havent paid on this list.

Thats good. So you should'nt get another letter sent to you, in theory.

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

It sure is a very incompetent way of going about it, but sure if it results in them having a definitive list of all non payers then the end will have justified the means wouldnt you think.

Yeah, I suppose yer right, even though it costs €5,500 per 10,000 letters sent on stamps alone. Really not a large amount in the great scheme of things, when you consider what our politicians pay themselves extra, as an incentive just for turning up for work.

darkhorse

Hijpo wrote: »

What about the people that are dead 26 years? Who tells them that they are dead? Why does it cost 25 quid?

donalg1 wrote: »

What about them?

Yeah, donal, you are just a regular Mr Sentimental.

darkhorse

Ghandee wrote: »

Meanwhile, the power's that be give themselves €4 million extra than last year, a few months before they force € 3.5 BILLION in cuts inours.


Fitting headline btw, they're seriously rubbing our noses in it at this stage.



http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/dail-a-joke-as-112m-spend-passed-212032.html[/QUOTE]

Talking about jokes:-

Don't rip off visitors at The Gathering, Enda Kenny warns businesses

This has to be up there with the best of them. This man should be on Funny Friday----wait a minute.:D

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

If some alternative revenue-raising measure were proposed instead of the property tax that required a registry to be compiled.

Actually, there were alternative revenue raising measures proposed by some, not least of all, Peter Matthews, who, last time I checked, was a FG TD., but, because he was just another one of these people, with what I would call a good background in both banking and business, actually, probably so much so that he would wipe the floor with most of the people that wield all the power and show them up, that suggestions from someone such as he would never see the light of day. Purely my opinion. I would welcome contradiction if there were any basis for same.

darkhorse

Am Chile wrote: »

In todays Irish Independent there is a story councils around the country are owed more then €395m in unpaid development levies-much more money then the household tax.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/county-councils-owed-395m-by-developers-3272847.html[/QUOTE]


Sure we'el write it off at the next meeting. We have a proposer and a seconder, just write their names in the minutes book, a formality.

Le_Dieux

darkhorse wrote: »

You people simply dont get it. Just for one minute, forget about all the arguements from both sides. Just think about it and think about how much the sheer incompetency is costing(the taxpayer again). I think we have already heard from a representitive amount of people, through one media or another, even the head of the LGMA has admitted that they have sent out quite a lot of reminder letters to people that have paid. So, with this in mind, imagine there had been a bigger percentage of people paying the HHC, say 99% for example, well, judging by all we have heard, either on chat shows, read in newspapers, or even heard from the horses mouth, about the volume of reminder letters, in some cases second and third letters, reminders letters were going to be sent to people that have paid anyway, bearing in mind also that maybe a high percentage of these people that have received them, maybe old and frail and some even suffering with major health problems(a person I know with a heart problem paid, but got a letter anyway saying penalties had accrued(imagine the stress), I think you all know where I am going with this, but still thousands of euro's would be wasted sending out letters to people, whether they had paid or not. I'm sorry, but I just dont think that any amount of money is worth worsening the already poor health of people. So, I am saying, if people cannot do the preparatory work that a project like collecting a HHC calls for(and getting a reasonable remuneration for said work, from public purse, btw), that said project should be scrapped. (Probably the drink talking, if so, I'll stop talking)

You're talking sense DH, so carry on drinking:-)

Le_Dieux

darkhorse wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose yer right, even though it costs €5,500 per 10,000 letters sent on stamps alone. Really not a large amount in the great scheme of things, when you consider what our politicians pay themselves extra, as an incentive just for turning up for work.

Work? Work DH?? You MUST stop the booze now, because perish the thought our td's (?) WORK.:D

Ghandee

Am Chile wrote: »

Can you remember the title of the article so I can look it up.

Hi AC.

can't remember the name, but if you have the journal app, it was in it.

lugha

darkhorse wrote: »

Just think about it and think about how much the sheer incompetency is costing(the taxpayer again).

Again I say, this has nothing to do with the arguments for and against a property tax but I’ll indulge you and follow you in your off-topic foray

So let’s think about the “incompetency” and ask what how they might have done things differently.

I think the could have, and did, anticipate a lot of problems with compiling a valid register of property owners from existing sources.

So a sensible course of action might have been to set about compiling anew, a register of property owners. And a way to do this would be to appeal to people’s honesty and invite them to voluntarily submit their name to the register. Which pretty much, was the purpose of the HHC.

(Given the incessant complaining from the people about tax evasion and corruption and the like, they may have, naively, reasoned that only a tiny minority would have considered themselves above the law and not registered)

And here and now, in a breath-taking display of hypocrisy, we have the very people who frustrated efforts to compile a register criticising because of problems that arose because of their law-breaking ways. (The worst part is, I think some of them don’t even see the hypocrisy)

darkhorse wrote: »

Actually, there were alternative revenue raising measures proposed by some

Once again, a “won’t payer” completely misses the point. But I see you’re on the sauce, so we will let that one go.