Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's hardly a ruse if they tell us what's going to happen, is it?

But they haven't told us what's going to happen, nor how they intend to calculate it.

Unless you know otherwise?

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The fact that the Household Charge was a precursor to a full Property Tax was announced in last year's budget.

Many see it as the govt charging already hard hit home owners €100 for the privilege of setting up a database for them, that their already highly paid PS workers are either unwilling or incapable of doing themselves.

They're even threatening to fine folk who've already paid unless they contact them to confirm either way for Christs sake.

Total incompetence from a govt way out of their depth.

@ DV

The term 'tax evaders' is premature, they've evaded the hhc, not a tax.

Michael Hegarty head of cork FG however........

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

But they haven't told us what's going to happen, nor how they intend to calculate it.

The “ruse” that Vlad is discounting is the notion that one of the undisguised purposes of the HHC was to compile a register for a property tax.

Though, given the neck of some, who are critical because of problems that arose as a result of their decision to pick and choose which laws they would obey, perhaps they genuinely do not get this?

Ghandee wrote: »

The term 'tax evaders' is premature, they've evaded the hhc, not a tax.

And a tax is not the same as a charge is not the same as a levy ……

Don’t know why this is such a biggie with some of you anyway. Come next year and assuming you don’t get back in line (but of course, most will) you will be a full-on, hard-core tax evader!

Maybe you could prepare by liasing with Mr. H with a view to starting a mutual support group?

Seriously G, if you are going to whinge and moan about all manner of things that politicians get up to, would you not think it prudent to refrain from criticizing those that are doing something you advocate others to do?

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

But they haven't told us what's going to happen, nor how they intend to calculate it.

Unless you know otherwise?

As has already been pointed out, what new tax rates are have never been announced before the budget. That's kind of what the budget is for. But it's been made very clear that a.) the Household Charge is a precursor to the Property Tax and b.) the Property Tax will be more. People are hardly being lied to here.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

As has already been pointed out, what new tax rates are have never been announced before the budget. That's kind of what the budget is for. But it's been made very clear that a.) the Household Charge is a precursor to the Property Tax and b.) the Property Tax will be more. People are hardly being lied to here.

Lied to? They've been lied to by the coalition both to get into power, and lied to since they've got in.

You point out that the property will be more, how much more?

They expect people to voluntarily pay a hundred euro to enable the govt to charge them whatever the Hell they like from here on in?

If they want a database, they can fcuking well set one up, charging people to do it for them is ridiculous, scandalous even.

Apparently, even though my house was 'exempt' this year, I had still to register too?
Get the boat FG.

I'll be exempt for the foreseeable future too, (or until the current govt inevitably falls)

Bring in rates, give me services I can directly tie to a charge like up north. I'll happily pay then.
(just for the folk who think I'm adverse to paying any tax)

Must be a hell of a lot of ps/cs workers pensions and pay depending on this charge.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Lied to? They've been lied to by the coalition both to get into power, and lied to since they've got in.

You point out that the property will be more, how much more?

They expect people to voluntarily pay a hundred euro to enable the govt to charge them whatever the Hell they like from here on in?

If they want a database, they can fcuking well set one up, charging people to do it for them is ridiculous, scandalous even.

So do you feel you've been lied to any time taxes have been introduced or increased in a budget without the exact amounts being announced at some unspecified point in advance?

Has anyone actually said that the Household Charge was intended solely to finance the creation of a database?

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Lied to? They've been lied to by the coalition both to get into power, and lied to since they've got in.

You point out that the property will be more, how much more?

They expect people to voluntarily pay a hundred euro to enable the govt to charge them whatever the Hell they like from here on in?

If they want a database, they can fcuking well set one up, charging people to do it for them is ridiculous, scandalous even.

Apparently, even though my house was 'exempt' this year, I had still to register too?
Get the boat FG.

I'll be exempt for the foreseeable future too, (or until the current govt inevitably falls)

Bring in rates, give me services I can directly tie to a charge like up north. I'll happily pay then.
(just for the folk who think I'm adverse to paying any tax)

Must be a hell of a lot of ps/cs workers pensions and pay depending on this charge.

What I dont understand is if you think you will be exempt for the foreseeable future why do you care so much about it? You also say you want services like they get up north and then you will pay whatever they tell you to pay so it seems to me like your disagreement with this is not based on any type of principle really.

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

To me it seems perfectly normal for people to pay for their own water meters.

Very good analogy, Sherlock, but I dont remember ever claiming that I would like to own one.:(

donalg1

darkhorse wrote: »

Very good analogy, Sherlock, but I dont remember ever claiming that I would like to own one.:(

I dont ever remember claiming you did say that. And I dont think it will matter if you do or dont want one anyway. It will be more a case of do you want water or not.

Anyway can you clarify your previous response as requested.

And the name calling or baiting isnt really required now is it?

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

You know.

You referred to affordability. What were you referring to if it wasn’t the affordability of property tax????

If you read my posts, you would know. I think after all this time on this thread, its time to cut the cord and let you go and do all your own research.:mad:

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

Ah well I would prefer you to back up your nonsense if its all the same with you.

I have made a decision. I am not going to backtrack or multi-quote anymore, if I think that people are not reading my posts(which is obvious in a lot of cases, cause why else would they come back with some of the things they do, like silly statements), or if I think that they are just deliberately being immature(they know who they are), when they know exactly what they are talking about.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Because they do not have a complete register and have to make do with an ad-hoc solution. And we all know why they don’t have a complete register, don’t we?

Well, I think that you're clever enough to know that even if they had a complete register, they would manage to fcuk it up some way. Here's a case in point-A guy that works with a friend of mine, pays his HHC in Jan., they dont lodge/change his cheque until May. A simple mistake, I would have thought, until I heard a caller on Liveline several weeks ago with a similar story. So, how many times could the same thing have happened that we did'nt hear about. By the way, they sent the cheque back to the caller from Liveline, and told him to send the full amount including penalties.

donalg1

darkhorse wrote: »

I have made a decision. I am not going to backtrack or multi-quote anymore, if I think that people are not reading my posts(which is obvious in a lot of cases, cause why else would they come back with some of the things they do, like silly statements), or if I think that they are just deliberately being immature(they know who they are), when they know exactly what they are talking about.

Ok so you arent going to back your nonsensical claims up with any explanations, sure thats grand hows about from now on whenever you post anything I will reply saying well thats just stupid, however I wont tell you why I think this because I dont think I need to, instead its just stupid so there.

I asked you to explain it you clearly cant so you can retract it if you want, otherwise I suggest you stop calling others immature.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Believing what we are told????? Have you acquired De Valera like powers and can look into the hearts (or perhaps wallets) of the Irish people and enlighten us on their fiscal matters? :)QUOTE]


Yeah, it does look funny in print alright. No, I dont have any powers. I can just speak truthfully about my own fiscal matters. Other peoples fiscal matters, I just go on what I read in the newspapers, which I have no reason to disbelieve. There is definitly no advantage to me to say one thing and do another, in fact I cant think of anyone that would deliberatly say one thing in order to gain an advantage, then completely do the opposite once that advantage is realized---oh, wait a minute, maybe I'm remembering something.:rolleyes:

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

@ DV

The term 'tax evaders' is premature, they've evaded the hhc, not a tax.

Not this nonsense again.

donalg1

dvpower wrote: »

Not this nonsense again.

Round in circles with some

darkhorse

Shenshen wrote: »

Usually, that gets announced in the budget./QUOTE]


Usually, that gets announced in Germany.:D

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Not this nonsense again.

Nonsense?

Care for a source?

As the council meeting convened yesterday, he issued a brief statement claiming he needed time to sort out his financial affairs.

Last week, the embattled public representative said he was "working on a repayments process" with Revenue’s collector general after his property business got into difficulties, owing €81,823

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/policing-committee-chairman-quits-after-drink-driving-arrest-207117.html

Eighty one thousand euro.

Now, that is a tax evader.

Chips Lovell

I fail to see what Cllr Michael Hegarty has to do with whether the houshold charge is a tax or not.

I suppose if I evade customs duty, stamp duty, the Universal Social Charge or excise duty, I'm not a tax evader either?

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Not this nonsense again.

donalg1 wrote: »

Round in circles with some

Now now Donal.

If some people insist on throwing the name 'tax evader' about, you shouldn't be surprised when they get reminded about a high profile member of their own party who is an actual tax evader.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I fail to see what Cllr Michael Hegarty has to do with whether the houshold charge is a tax or not.

I suppose if I evade customs duty, stamp duty, the Universal Social Charge or excise duty, I'm not a tax evader either?

See above. ^^

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Now now Donal.

If some people insist on throwing the name 'tax evader' about, you shouldn't be surprised when they get reminded about a high profile member of their own party who is an actual tax evader.

Well thats fair enough, but so are those that havent paid the HHC, regardless of the C in the name.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

Well thats fair enough, but so are those that havent paid the HHC, regardless of the C in the name.

Thank you.

Have a word with dv and Vlad there please.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

See above. ^^

I'm not a Fine Gael supporter. Far from it. I've never voted for them in my life.

But even if I was, it's still beside the point.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I'm not a Fine Gael supporter. Far from it. I've never voted for them in my life.

But even if I was, it's still beside the point.

I never said you were?

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

I never said you were?

In that case why did you say:

Ghandee wrote: »

If some people insist on throwing the name 'tax evader' about, you shouldn't be surprised when they get reminded about a high profile member of their own party who is an actual tax evader.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Thank you.

Have a word with dv and Vlad there please.

No need as they do seem to be able to grasp who a tax evader is unlike some.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

In that case why did you say:

Post 675, 676.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Post 675, 676.

I don't see anyone claiming any party affiliation there either.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

If some people insist on throwing the name 'tax evader' about, you shouldn't be surprised when they get reminded about a high profile member of their own party who is an actual tax evader.

Just calling it like it is. Not only do you intend to evade the Property tax, but you also publicly advocate that others do it too. In a thread full of people that are opening breaking the law and advocating that others do so too, it's very surprising that some people are so sensitive about being called what they clearly are.

Nor am I a member of a political party, as if it made any difference.

lugha

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I don't see anyone claiming any party affiliation there either.

But if you disagree with Ghandee (and one or two others) on the merits of a property tax then it logically follows that you are a member of FG and / or a government apologist / shill.
I mean, what other possible explanation could there be? :pac: