Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Pal

I am pleased that spongers got prosecution letters today. About time.

bgrizzley

lugha wrote: »

I don’t assume anyone is a member of anything. Unlike some, I don’t come over all conspiratorial when I encounter someone with a different opinion to me.

Mind, if you were a member of CAWHT I would blame you for denying it this morning after yesterday’s hilarious fiasco.


Perhaps Pat is playing a little game? Surely you can see the advantage from Labour's perspective of putting out the notion that they pursuing some policies with great reluctance, whether this is true or not?

I seem to remember not too long ago, you thought i was disenfranchised FF voter. For such an unassuming guy you do a lot of speculating :pac::pac:

i think both side of this argument could learn a lot from this...

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

Not this nonsense again.

Ya know what, dv, I have to say whats on my mind. Its just that seeing your statement here, I can just visualize Enda Kenny when he came on the news and said, "The silly season is over". Its not meant as an insult, by the way, just an observation.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

You certainly implied it yesterday, I asked you directly if you were claiming it and if you were I asked you to provide evidence showing where I ever declared allegiance to FG, your silence in responding said it all as far as I am concerned.

Private sector employee problems.
Not paid to sit a computer all day Donal, forgive me if God forbid I'd be earning a few bob.

donalg1 wrote: »

But then why did he get me and Vlad mixed up in it, he directly pointed Vlad to one of my posts so this is why I am assuming he claims me to be a member or supporter of FG.

You'd assume wrong.

donalg1 wrote: »

His silence is deafening again though

I've been working.

I've never accused you of being affiliated with FG in any shape or form. Your 'assumption' is clearly wrong, but perhaps you could point out which post exactly you could have misinterpreted as such?

When you point me towards any such post that could in any way, shape or form be interpreted that I've accused you of being either an FG supporter, or an FG party member, kindly direct me to the post.

If you find it, and if it could indeed be deciphered in such a way, I'll apologise.

If you can't, well the ball can go into your court, and you might admit that your assumptions were completely wrong.

I'll not demand an apology though. :cool:

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

Well thats fair enough, but so are those that havent paid the HHC, regardless of the C in the name.

I dont like continually coming back to this, so just one question for you. If we look at this from your point of view, ie regardless of the C in the name, as you put it, then why did they, the Goverment, put the C in the name.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Private sector employee problems.
Not paid to sit a computer all day Donal, forgive me if God forbid I'd be earning a few bob.




You'd assume wrong.



I've been working.

I've never accused you of being affiliated with FG in any shape or form. Your 'assumption' is clearly wrong, but perhaps you could point out which post exactly you could have misinterpreted as such?

When you point me towards any such post that could in any way, shape or form be interpreted that I've accused you of being either an FG supporter, or an FG party member, kindly direct me to the post.

If you find it, and if it could indeed be deciphered in such a way, I'll apologise.

If you can't, well the ball can go into your court, and you might admit that your assumptions were completely wrong.

I'll not demand an apology though. :cool:

You know what post I am referring to Ghandee it was the one where you directed Vlad to my post and a post by dv.Now can you please explain why you did this, and also please explain who you were claiming to be a member or supporter of FG?

So if my assumptions are wrong well then that is fair enough but you have never attempted to clarify it despite me asking you to do so.

donalg1

darkhorse wrote: »

I dont like continually coming back to this, so just one question for you. If we look at this from your point of view, ie regardless of the C in the name, as you put it, then why did they, the Goverment, put the C in the name.

Because they wanted to I suppose.


Maybe they thought the term charge is better than the term tax, you would really be better asking them though.

Chips Lovell

To distinguish it from the Property Tax that will supercede it? Who knows. But if you want to talk semantics why wasn't the Universal Social Charge not called the Universal Social Tax? Why isn't excise duty called excise tax? And why should the name of any tax make a blind bit of difference.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

You know what post I am referring to Ghandee it was the one where you directed Vlad to my post and a post by dv.Now can you please explain why you did this, and also please explain who you were claiming to be a member or supporter of FG?

So if my assumptions are wrong well then that is fair enough but you have never attempted to clarify it despite me asking you to do so.

Is this your way of saying you are not willing/unable to show me where/what post I've made on this thread that could be misinterpreted as accusing you of being an FG party member or supporter?

These posts I directed you to. Highlight what part in them could even in the slightest, hint that you were a supporter/party member.

Shouldn't be a problem if the insinuation is there.

bgrizzley

why doesnt anyone want to be associated with Fine Gael?

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Is this your way of saying you are not willing/unable to show me where/what post I've made on this thread that could be misinterpreted as accusing you of being an FG party member or supporter?

These posts I directed you to. Highlight what part in them could even in the slightest, hint that you were a supporter/party member.

Shouldn't be a problem if the insinuation is there.

It is there Ghandee, we both know its there and we both know what posts I am talking about, DV knows and Vlad knows it too. Why are you not answering my questions above, something to hide? They are very clear questions.

Why did you refer Vlad to one of my posts when insinuating "someone" was a member/supporter of FG?

Who were you referring to when you insinuated "someone" was a member/supporter of FG?

Answers please if you can. I wont hold my breath though as this is not the first time you have been asked this.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

To distinguish it from the Property Tax that will supercede it? Who knows. But if you want to talk semantics why wasn't the Universal Social Charge not called the Universal Social Tax? Why isn't excise duty called excise tax? And why should the name of any tax make a blind bit of difference.

The hhc is, and always has been nothing more than a database building exercise got the govt that the grossly overpaid public sector employees who should have been given the task to do, were unable or to dam lazy to do.

The fatal error by the govt was having the cheek to demand the €100 to do that work for them.

I'll guess you'll deny this Vlad, which is why I'll ask this to you.

Why were households not even liable told to register their details too?

They don't have a database. That's the second fatal error they made trying to introduce this tax. That fact is the one ace ordinary householders have up their sleeves.

I'll repeat myself. They want a database?

Go ahead and create it. Just don't ask me to do it for too, and certainly don't expect a fee from those liable to do it for them.

Chips Lovell

So you want the government to spend money on collecting the details of every single person liable for the charge, even though approx. two thirds to date have provided that information voluntarily? Sound financial judgement there!

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

It is there Ghandee, we both know its there and we both know what posts I am talking about, DV knows and Vlad knows it too. Why are you not answering my questions above, something to hide? They are very clear questions.

Why did you refer Vlad to one of my posts when insinuating "someone" was a member/supporter of FG?

Who were you referring to when you insinuated "someone" was a member/supporter of FG?

Answers please if you can. I wont hold my breath though as this is not the first time you have been asked this.

Donal.

If you're not prepared to show me where exactly i posted these accusations then please drop it.

Be man enough to admit you're wrong, and stop trying to garner support from other posters.

Put this 'defamatory' towards you post up, or please let this be the end of it.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Donal.

If you're not prepared to show me where exactly i posted these accusations then please drop it.

Be man enough to admit you're wrong, and stop trying to garner support from other posters.

Put this 'defamatory' towards you post up, or please let this be the end of it.

Seriously why are refusing to answer my questions Ghandee, your continuous attempts to deflect are silly and futile. Why wont you answer them?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81530643&postcount=688

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

So you want the government to spend money on collecting the details of every single person liable for the charge, even though approx. two thirds to date have provided that information voluntarily? Sound financial judgement there!

Voluntarily? Are you having a laugh?

See this explanation of 'voluntarily'.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81449724&postcount=542

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Voluntarily? Are you having a laugh?

See this explanation of 'voluntarily'.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81449724&postcount=542

Again with the semantics. Seriously though, isn't getting people to register their details not the cheapest way to do it? And then start attempting to fill in the blanks. Rather than start from scratch.

bgrizzley

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Again with the semantics. Seriously though, isn't getting people to register their details not the cheapest way to do it? And then start attempting to fill in the blanks. Rather than start from scratch.

Cmon Vlad, since when did a Government ever look for the cheapest way to do anything?

getting people to self register was just another laugh for the boys.

this is the regard they have for you...

http://www.donegaldaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fingers.jpg

tayto lover

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

What does that have to do with Moneyguideireland's estimation of the number of liable houses?

Well now, if they are quoting figures on the number of households and on how many have paid and not paid it has a lot to do with it. Especially when they are sending letters out to dead people, some of whom have died up to 25 years ago.

Just like the name of another poster it just "Does not Compute".

Their facts, figures and statistics are obviously skewed.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Again with the semantics. Seriously though, isn't getting people to register their details not the cheapest way to do it? And then start attempting to fill in the blanks. Rather than start from scratch.

Self registration its all well and good.

Charging the public to do it though?
Not so good.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

Self registration its all well and good.

Charging the public to do it though?
Not so good.

I was never charged to do it.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

I think he was implying that I'm a FG member. He would be wrong (unsurprisingly).

I would be in agreement with him on that.
I believe you, lugha and Vlad are F.G. men.
Now I could be wrong but don't think so. You are all too consistent on spinning the party line. Donalg1 may not be as sometimes he can actually see the flipside of the argument.

Ghost Buster

Got a letter in the post today from my county council, the one who has delivered to cafes, cinemas, churches, doctors offices etc beautiful glossy reminders for your house to pay its dog licence:rolleyes:
This letter suggests that i may be eligible for the household penalty, or perhaps i have already paid it or heck maybe Im not eligible at all at all and the way to find out whether i am or not is to register.
"Me hole" comes to mind.....

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

So you want the government to spend money on collecting the details of every single person liable for the charge, even though approx. two thirds to date have provided that information voluntarily? Sound financial judgement there!

The govt don't ask for a one hundred euro fee when they compile a census.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

The govt don't ask for a one hundred euro fee when they compile a census.

Are you actually claiming that the €100 tax is a registration fee?

tayto lover

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

So you want the government to spend money on collecting the details of every single person liable for the charge, even though approx. two thirds to date have provided that information voluntarily? Sound financial judgement there!

How can you/they throw out figures like "two-thirds" when you/they don't even know how many homes there are? Sound???

Chips Lovell

tayto lover wrote: »

I would be in agreement with him on that.
I believe you, lugha and Vlad are F.G. men.
Now I could be wrong but don't think so. You are all too consistent on spinning the party line. Donalg1 may not be as sometimes he can actually see the flipside of the argument.

So by your logic, if someone thinks a policy is a good idea, they are automatically a supporter of a party who endorses it?

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

I would be in agreement with him on that.
I believe you, lugha and Vlad are F.G. men.
Now I could be wrong but don't think so. You are all too consistent on spinning the party line. Donalg1 may not be as sometimes he can actually see the flipside of the argument.

Now if only Ghandee could clarify who he was referring to we could put the whole thing to bed.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Are you actually claiming that the €100 tax is a registration fee?

No, you know what I'm claiming.

The whole hhc sham is a database building exercise.

The hundred euro 'charge' regardless if you lived in a maisonette or mansion was an added bonus to pump into the banks.

Chips Lovell

Ghandee wrote: »

The whole hhc sham is a database building exercise.

So instead you'd like to spend public money on building a database when most of the information could have been gathered much more cheaply?