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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

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    #872
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    Where are you constructing this from?



    No point in this discussion if you can't accept that someone can support a property tax without necessarily supporting a particular party.

    It is only a suggestion of why people might be prepared to change their own opinions to back the party opinion. But if they were indeed F.G. people then they could explain it better and more clearly why the party think that way.


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    #873
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Ghandee wrote: »
    That's correct.

    It was only in labours manifesto.

    (though, theirs was site valued)

    FG played politics with it, they said a property tax would be up to Councils, so I wouldn't say they were not for it, they just fudged the issue.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #874
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    It is only a suggestion of why people might be prepared to change their own opinions to back the party opinion. But if they were indeed F.G. people then they could explain it better and more clearly why the party think that way.
    And who here do you think is prepared to change their own opinions to back a party opinion?

    Can't you accept that people arguing for a property tax here are in favour of it on its own merits?


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    #875
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    K-9 wrote: »
    FG played politics with it, they said a property tax would be up to Councils, so I wouldn't say they were not for it, they just fudged the issue.

    Exactly. They are still the same lying devils that change with the wind in order to catch a vote.
    But this crowd have not kept their promises either so it's like Zig & Zag in politics now.


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    #876
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    And who here do you think is prepared to change their own opinions to back a party opinion?

    Can't you accept that people arguing for a property tax here are in favour of it on its own merits?

    Wouldn't that be a good reason for declaring allegiances? Then we'd know.


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    #877
    DoesNotCompute
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    Ghandee wrote: »
    That's correct.

    It was only in labours manifesto.

    (though, theirs was site valued)

    The manifestoes are pretty much meaningless when it comes to coalitions. What matters is the document that the parties forming the coalition negotiate, i.e. the Programme for Government.


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    #878
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Exactly. They are still the same lying devils that change with the wind in order to catch a vote.
    But this crowd have not kept their promises either so it's like Zig & Zag in politics now.


    In fairness it was a dumb policy, how could you leave a property tax up to Councils? Some would have it, some wouldn't. It was obvious it was a dodge on the issue.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #879
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    K-9 wrote: »
    In fairness it was a dumb policy, how could you leave a property tax up to Councils? Some would have it, some wouldn't. It was obvious it was a dodge on the issue.

    I don't know if any could get away with not having it, given the hole in funds it would create. But I still think it's a bad idea, because it would serve to widen the divide between richer and poorer counties.


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    #880
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    Perhaps the sense of grievance felt by those in the wake of broken election promises might be lessened if they weren’t so unbelievably gullible in the first place.

    In this point, I am in agreement with you. But instead of calling the people that voted FG gullible, as you put it, because of all their broken promises, I would prefer to say that the voters first and foremost main intention was to punish FF, and at the same time FG happen to appeal to their naivety in making false promises that they could not keep, in effect offering the people some hope. But ya know what I find really ironic, the fact that FG out in the wilderness 14 years, chipping away at FF, no matter what they did, then FF make a b*lls of everything, which gives FG their big break, then when FG get in, instead of making any decisions that would help the people that is paying their wages, they just carry on the policies of FF. It would be really funny, if the country was'nt in such a mess.


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    #881
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Fair prediction Gh, but what 'parties' will the coalition comprise of? THAT scares me big time!!

    Whoever it is, can they do any worse than whats there, LD.


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    #882
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I'm not part of any campaign but I definitely would not support multiple property owners anyway.
    I would support people who are defending their own (sole) homes from this unjust and unfair tax.

    Besides, is'nt it more than likely that those that have multiple properties are actually generating income from those properties, unlike a property that is just used as a family home, (although some posters will disagree with me here). So, I cant see why anyone owning multiple properties, would have any gripe paying the charge, if they are earning incomes from them.


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    #883
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    dvpower wrote: »
    Tax evaders are now giving lectures on wastage. A bit rich.


    Tax evasion is the general term for efforts by individuals, corporations, trusts and other entities to evade taxes by illegal means. Tax evasion usually entails taxpayers deliberately misrepresenting or concealing the true state of their affairs to the tax authorities to reduce their tax liability and includes in particular dishonest tax reporting, such as declaring less income, profits or gains than actually earned or overstating deductions,.


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    #884
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Pal wrote: »
    I am pleased that spongers got prosecution letters today. About time.

    Good stuff outa you. Whats your take on letters being sent to people who paid the HHC already, also being sent to dead people.


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    #885
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Because they wanted to I suppose.


    Maybe they thought the term charge is better than the term tax, you would really be better asking them though.

    Thanks. Good answer.


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    #886
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    To distinguish it from the Property Tax that will supercede it? Who knows. But if you want to talk semantics why wasn't the Universal Social Charge not called the Universal Social Tax? Why isn't excise duty called excise tax? And why should the name of any tax make a blind bit of difference.

    It dont make any difference to me. Its donal next door that seems to be having trouble with it.


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    #887
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    why doesnt anyone want to be associated with Fine Gael?


    Well, I can only answer for myself on this one. Ya see, I was brought up to tell the truth and to keep any promises that I make, so being associated with a party that breaks promises to vunerable, innocent, believing people would not interest me one bit. Guess I'm old fashioned, huh.


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    #888
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    So instead you'd like to spend public money on building a database when most of the information could have been gathered much more cheaply?

    Vlad, if I am reading you post correctly, let me just say, I dont think 160 million euro's is cheap. If on the other hand the government just wanted to build a database for the upcoming tax that they want to levy on homes, could they not have put the job out to tender. I agree with the poster who said that this money is just for pumping into banks.


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    #889
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    A few people making the argument that cutting pensions, allowances and salaries is not going to make an impact on our deficit. On the flip side they think €160 million is going to make a difference to the €380 million in money that dublin council is down alone


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    #890
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Ghandee wrote: »
    As I've already asked, why don't they charge at census time, that database seems to Get created without a charge attached to it ok.


    Not only is there no charge attached to it, G, but it is a great little earner for the distribution and collection of the forms for the people that can pick up the bit of work. I wonder where the money comes from to pay for that, DOH.


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    #891
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    Fianna Fail DO favour a property tax. They are currently engaging in a bit of political opportunism, which lamentably, some of you are failing for.

    It may well be political opportunism, but they were up front about it. Whereas they admitted being in favour of a property tax, they also said that this is the wrong time for it, a time when people are on their knees in poverty like never before. So for you to say people are falling for it, no I dont think there is anything untoward.


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    #892
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    The one thing which this HHC/PT will do whether you agree with it or not is drive the final nail into the already depressed economy of this country. A lot of retail and hospitality businesses that are just clinging on for survival atm will finally go under. I anticipate an increase in unemployment, more emigration more mortgage defaults and tragically more relationship breakups and suicides.


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    #893
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    You do realise you can register without paying by the way?
    dvpower wrote: »
    Just like the census, there was no charge to register for the HHC.


    Okay, boys, I'm gonna be the one to ask, although I'll probably regret it.

    Why did a Million people pay €100, if there was no charge.


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    #894
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I don't get your point Dv.
    If you didn't vote for a party all you have to do is say that. Be honest about it. I voted for F.G. last G.E. to my shame now, so i'm admitting it. I am not a member of that or any other party though. Why can't everyone else tell the truth?

    So you're one of the gullible ones that lugha was talking about, tayto.:)


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    #895
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    dvpower wrote: »
    This is a thread about the HHC / property tax.
    I wish people could stick to the topic.

    Wrong again, Property Tax is not mentioned in the heading.

    You're the one that wishes people could stick to the topic.

    You stick to it, then.


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    #896
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    Well let me bare my chest. :)I am in favour of a property tax because I can see a number of advantages it has over other taxes.


    There is nobody disputing the fact that it would bring a lot of money into the government coffers, to help pay bankers, bondholders and suchlike, were there enough people in a position to pay it. Notwithstanding the fact that I do not agree with this charge, as I may have expressed on this site in the past, but if we are to believe in the surveys that were undertaken by the likes of the credit unions, SVP etc, then tell me, lugha, were would half of the population thats almost on the breadline, actually get the money to pay a property tax next year.


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    #897
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    Hi


    For some reason, I am having trouble posting tonight. I wanted to make 2 comments, so here goes:


    1) I am aware of at least 2 Mods - Vlad & K9 - following and contributing to this thread. In the last thread I had one of my posts altered without my consent - FYP - and noticed again yesterday it was done by the same person on someone else's post. Is this permitted? And if so, why? Surely then we might as well ALL just change a post to suit our own motives.


    &


    2) Mel: I wanted to ask, why only 'from here on in' are they charging You interest? What did they charge You from March up to now?


    Thanks


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    #898
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    lugha wrote: »
    But giving that we have such a massive deficit it would seem only prudent that the government would seek to generate some revenue from it from the off, rather than postpone it for a year.
    And most of them know that there isn't a real alternative from any other potential government.

    Even though I dont agree with this either, just read it and tell me that the government is acting on my and your behalf and the are not protecting anyone like landowners.

    Site value tax would be better and fairer option than a property tax ...


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    #899
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    K-9 wrote: »
    FG played politics with it, they said a property tax would be up to Councils, so I wouldn't say they were not for it, they just fudged the issue.

    Does'nt matter which way you word it, they lied through their teeth to an already very let down people, then they proceeded to kick the b*llix outa everyone.


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    #900
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    The one thing which this HHC/PT will do whether you agree with it or not is drive the final nail into the already depressed economy of this country. A lot of retail and hospitality businesses that are just clinging on for survival atm will finally go under. I anticipate an increase in unemployment, more emigration more mortgage defaults and tragically more relationship breakups and suicides.

    Agree 100% with you. Good post.


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    #901
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    Cmon Vlad, since when did a Government ever look for the cheapest way to do anything?

    getting people to self register was just another laugh for the boys.

    this is the regard they have for you...

    http://www.donegaldaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fingers.jpg[/QUOTE]

    They also have this regard for you, and for us all(ya dont mind me piggybacking, bgrizzley?).
    This is a small excerpt from Stephen Donnelly's blog from 22/10/2012.

    Being nice has not worked for us so far. In fact, it has come at a huge cost. I met the troika last Wednesday, along with other independent and ULA TDs. They told us that it was the Government who had insisted on paying the bondholders in the pillar banks.
    During the summer I analysed the cost per person of the bank bailouts in Europe. I found that we have paid several times more than anyone else. And for that, we have yet to secure a single thing.

    I'd take this guy's word over anyone in government.


This discussion has been closed.
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