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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

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    #902
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    Apologies.........

    Last night I tried responding using Internet Explorer ( IE) which I always use. Every time I tried I got the message 1.The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 1 characters. I also couldn't make a line BOLD ( which I was trying to do with Mel's message as I wanted to comment on it.

    When I tried to pm a Mod wondering was there something wrong with my account I got the following message 1.Please complete both the subject and message fields. BOTH of these happen whether I preview a post or just submit. This problem, for me, is still ongoing.

    It works perfectly on Google Chrome, which obviously am using now. Does anyone know what's wrong with my IE? Also, Mods, please feel free to move this as You see fit.

    Again apologies for loading it up here, but I felt I had to as I was referring to Mel's message

    Thanks


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    #903
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    3 people from Westport have already been to court for not paying, the cases against them have been adjourned until the 20th of December and it seems Mayo county council have issued court summons as well. So what do the anti HHC crew think now. Since it is now a real possibility are you lot prepared to go to court?


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    #904
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    MadYaker wrote: »
    3 people from Westport have already been to court for not paying, the cases against them have been adjourned until the 20th of December and it seems Mayo county council have issued court summons as well. So what do the anti HHC crew think now. Since it is now a real possibility are you lot prepared to go to court?

    Maybe try reading back a couple of pages when it was discussed.....


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    #905
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    MadYaker wrote: »
    3 people from Westport have already been to court for not paying, the cases against them have been adjourned until the 20th of December and it seems Mayo county council have issued court summons as well. So what do the anti HHC crew think now. Since it is now a real possibility are you lot prepared to go to court?

    I am still awaiting my first letter, then the 2nd and them the 3rd, but still....answer to your question? It's a 3 letter word, beginning with a 'Y


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    #906
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    As you are prepared to go to court what do you think the outcome of a court case might be?


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    #907
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    dvpower wrote: »
    As you are prepared to go to court what do you think the outcome of a court case might be?


    this is very hard to say in a country where you get 6 years for not paying a garlic tax and a suspended sentence for rape.


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    #908
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Hijpo wrote: »
    A few people making the argument that cutting pensions, allowances and salaries is not going to make an impact on our deficit. On the flip side they think €160 million is going to make a difference to the €380 million in money that dublin council is down alone

    But cutting pensions and salaries will also lead to less spending in the economy and even more job losses.
    We need to pump money into the economy to re-energize it and create jobs. More jobs = more tax take too which is good.
    You cannot cut and tax your way out of a recession.


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    #909
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Well there is no way you are going to win the case. I was listening to a conversation about this on newstalk, I think they had a solicitor on and he was saying that you will probably be fined and told to pay the HHC (including late payment fees) and the legal costs of the county/city council that brought you to court. So it could get quite expensive... And if you refuse to pay that I don't know what will happen... a jail sentence maybe?

    In reality it will never go that far with most people, once their county/city council starts issuing summons they will pay up.


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    #910
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MadYaker wrote: »
    3 people from Westport have already been to court for not paying, the cases against them have been adjourned until the 20th of December and it seems Mayo county council have issued court summons as well. So what do the anti HHC crew think now. Since it is now a real possibility are you lot prepared to go to court?

    I am for one.
    Won't pay a tax on my own home.
    They might have room for me in Sean Quinn's cell.


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    #911
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Well there is no way you are going to win the case. I was listening to a conversation about this on newstalk, I think they had a solicitor on and he was saying that you will probably be fined and told to pay the HHC (including late payment fees) and the legal costs of the county/city council that brought you to court. So it could get quite expensive... And if you refuse to pay that I don't know what will happen... a jail sentence maybe?

    In reality it will never go that far with most people, once their county/city council starts issuing summons they will pay up.

    who cares about winning? who will try try all the real criminals while the courts are busy witht the hcc? will they stack us 8 deep in cells in Mountjoy? how bad does it look for a governement prosecuting more people than elected them to power?
    Stalin had the right idea, Gulags for the dissidents and anyone who disagreed with the government:rolleyes:


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    #912
    Maggie 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭Maggie 2


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I am for one.
    Won't pay a tax on my own home.
    They might have room for me in Sean Quinn's cell.
    Since being jailed is not an option, I recon you must have money to burn, as it will be taken from your wages/social welfare. You will end up paying hundreds of times over what the original charge was.


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    #913
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Well there is no way you are going to win the case. I was listening to a conversation about this on newstalk, I think they had a solicitor on and he was saying that you will probably be fined and told to pay the HHC (including late payment fees) and the legal costs of the county/city council that brought you to court. So it could get quite expensive... And if you refuse to pay that I don't know what will happen... a jail sentence maybe?

    In reality it will never go that far with most people, once their county/city council starts issuing summons they will pay up.

    Will we have one household charge non-payer jailed before one corrupt banker, that's the question?

    It will be a great yardstick to measure those who run the country, the legal system, and all the sycophants on these boards.


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    #914
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    A lot of people don't seem to realise that the legal system is based on what can be proved in court, not what actually happened.

    My point is that its very easy to prosecute someone for tax evasion in the case of the HHC, whereas it may be very difficult, or impossible to convict a "corrupt banker" of doing anything illegal.


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    #915
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    As you are prepared to go to court

    Yes.
    dvpower wrote: »
    what do you think the outcome of a court case might be?

    Might get my name in Stubbs gazette, seems to be all the rage these days.


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    #916
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    MadYaker wrote: »
    A lot of people don't seem to realise that the legal system is based in what can be proved in court, not what actually happened.

    My point is that its very easy to prosecute someone for tax evasion in the case of the HHC, whereas it may be very difficult, or impossible to convict a "corrupt banker" of doing anything illegal.


    what you mean is that a banker can afford the best justice money can buy whereas us peasants cant...


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    #917
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    what you mean is that a banker can afford the best justice money can buy whereas us peasants cant...

    Eh... No, that's not what I meant at all.

    But were going off topic this is supposed to be about the HHC. Good luck with not paying I genuinely hope you don't end up in prison.


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    #918
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Well there is no way you are going to win the case. I was listening to a conversation about this on newstalk, I think they had a solicitor on and he was saying that you will probably be fined and told to pay the HHC (including late payment fees) and the legal costs of the county/city council that brought you to court. So it could get quite expensive... And if you refuse to pay that I don't know what will happen... a jail sentence maybe?

    In reality it will never go that far with most people, as once the coalition fall mid next year, any new govt formed will have pledged to abolish the charge, fines attached etc etc


    Fyp


    Also, there is an 800,000-1 chance of it being your house singled out.

    I for one will gladly pay a lot more than the 3-500€ rumoured charge, if they brought in a rates system.

    But to pay into a central fund, where you cannot tie a service to the charge, ain't happening.


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    #919
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Yes.



    Might get my name in Stubbs gazette, seems to be all the rage these days.

    Did you not say in one of your posts that the HHC did not apply to you ?


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    #920
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,944 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Maggie 2 wrote: »
    Since being jailed is not an option, I recon you must have money to burn, as it will be taken from your wages/social welfare. You will end up paying hundreds of times over what the original charge was.

    They don't have the power to do that as has already been said.


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    #921
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Vizzy wrote: »
    Did you not say in one of your posts that the HHC did not apply to you ?

    I did?


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    #922
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    The coalition falling eh? Its not that far fetched I suppose, there is definitely going to be a major fall out from the up-coming budget but if the coalition can survive that I reckon they will limp on to the next election. Any subsequent government may pledge to abolish the house hold charge however the implementation of a property tax is in our agreement with the troika so it could be a difficult pledge to follow through on, that is if the coalition does fall. If they make it to the next election (2016?) by then a full property tax should be in place and I doubt any party would pledge to abolish that as it would leave a huge hole in gov revenue.

    The HHC goes to your county/city council and they spend it on local services etc. Its not exactly disappearing into a big black hole.

    In future if you are going edit my quoted posts will you put the edited bit in bold, thanks.


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    #923
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    They don't have the power to do that as has already been said.
    New Fines Bill allows for attachment to income and assets.


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    #924
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    MadYaker wrote: »
    The coalition falling eh? Its not that far fetched I suppose, there is definitely going to be a major fall out from the up-coming budget but if the coalition can survive that I reckon they will limp on to the next election. Any subsequent government may pledge to abolish the house hold charge however the implementation of a property tax is in our agreement with the troika so it could be a difficult pledge to follow through on.
    Troika would accept property tax alternative, says FF

    MARY MINIHAN

    THE TROIKA is “not wedded” to a property tax and is open to the measure being replaced by an alternative that would raise the same revenue, Fianna Fáil finance spokesman Michael McGrath has said.

    He also said officials from the European Union, International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank had not suggested a blanket ban on property tax for pensioners, but stressed ability to pay had to be taken into account.

    Mr McGrath met members of the troika mission in Dublin this week and said they made “crystal clear” their position on the incoming tax.

    “We went at them very directly on that question. I wanted to get absolute clarity. They made it crystal clear all measures set out in the memorandum of understanding are open to being replaced with good-quality alternatives that meet the targets,” Mr McGrath said. “I explicitly asked them would that apply to property tax and they said yes. They are not wedded to a property tax.”

    With anti property tax sentiments running extremely high, and every other political party opposing a property tax bar the coalition, I cannot for the life of me understand why they continue to commit political suicide by insisting they'll introduce it.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1019/1224325457995.html


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    #925
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    New Fines Bill allows for attachment to income and assets.

    We know that.

    We also know that the govt have to single out a non payer from the other 800,000 not on their (nrpp) database.
    Then the judge must order the outstanding charge and fines be paid.

    Then, you go home, refuse to pay fines, wait another few years, brought back to court again, and get the attachment.

    Property taxes will be abandoned long before these chain of events happen though.
    The countries courts cannot/could not cope with the scale of non compliance and civil disobedience shown so far.


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    #926
    Lucy and Harry
    Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Lucy and Harry


    When you die the person that gets your house in a will has to pay it before they can receive the house.Is that true


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    #927
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I did?

    Yeah,I found this(post 9665 from the previous thread) can't quote it directly as it is from a closed thread:

    "No, not me. I'm exempt.

    Other folk who haven't heard of it (or received an invoice).

    How could they party for something they were unaware of?

    Remember, this is a court that the prosecution would have to have evidence of proving you were fully aware of."


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    #928
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    I don't see why a property tax would be any more unpopular than any other tax that raises the same revenue in the same period of time. And don't try and tell me its the principle of having to pay a tax on your home that you and all the others disagree with, the reason there is such opposition is because people don't want to, or can't pay any more tax regardless of what form it comes in.

    And I haven't seen any opposition parties or anyone in this thread come up with practical alternatives to a property tax that would somehow be more palatable to the electorate.


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    #929
    Maggie 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭Maggie 2


    Lucy and Harry wrote: »
    When you die the person that gets your house in a will has to pay it before they can receive the house.Is that true
    Yes


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    #930
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Lucy and Harry wrote: »
    When you die the person that gets your house in a will has to pay it before they can receive the house.Is that true

    Yes


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    #931
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Lucy and Harry wrote: »
    When you die the person that gets your house in a will has to pay it before they can receive the house.Is that true


    No. You can live in the house, but you would have to pay to have it transfered.

    edit
    afaik they can only take the charge up to 12 years from date of issue, so if you were left a house which owed 30 years tax the estate is only liable for the last 12, thats my interpretation (but im open to correction).
    either way the next government will scrap it, so its probably moot


This discussion has been closed.
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