Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Hijpo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvXeQsXg8Yc&feature=share

In this episode, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss electing 'powerless' governments which then proceed to rip up social contracts and illegally transfer debts to private citizens, who, in turn, accept the 'moral responsibility' to keep the corporate welfare Queens rolling in their sacrosanct perks. In the second half, Max Keiser talks to Simon Rose of SaveOurSavers.co.uk about the attempt to try capitalism without capital and how the erosion of savings is costing the economy not only capital but jobs and growth.

dvpower

Oh God, not financial shock jock Max Keiser.
We really are plumbing the depths now.

Max Keiser wrote:

I came to London, because being here gives you a front-row seat on the imminent collapse of an entire city. I think that the Eurozone is over-rated as a disaster area. They are not yet in as bad shape as Britain. The UK pound, is about to collapse. And the collapse of the British economy will be one of the biggest in modern economic history. Of course you will take the American dollar and the euro down with you, for sure. But this place – London – is about to go belly up. It's … how can I put this?. If you see me walking the streets of your town, then you're probably ****ed.

Morrisseeee

Brilliant:

Noonan is powerless over his own stupidity

:pac:

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

Oh God, not financial shock jock Max Keiser

Did you watch the video?
Did you see his name and instantly post that reply?
Is that video complete fabrication of the events in this country?

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

Did you watch the video?
Did you see his name and instantly post that reply?
Is that video complete fabrication of the events in this country?

Do you blindly swallow every bit of hyperbole Max Keiser spits out?

Next.

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

Do you blindly swallow every bit of hyperbole Max Keiser spits out?

Next.

Like some people when its spouted from our government covering our situation?

three more questions put to you that go unanswered, which i thought were easy enough yes or no answers in fairness. :rolleyes:

What harm.

Noonan has the power to do whats in the best interest of the people of ireland -hyperbole
A bank regulator has admitted that our bankers have commited crimes and should be put in jail -hyperbole
15 of the most senior people in anglo irish bank during the time of the crash are still employed in the institution on salaries of over 150k -hyperbole
The irish independant where most of the reports they commented on came from - all hyperbole

Chips Lovell

Hijpo wrote: »

Are the people of iceland happy that they are not getting screwed over by gamblers, liars and scammers?
Are the people of iceland benefiting from the taxes paid by them?
Are the people of iceland confident that the people that ruined there country are getting what they deserved instead of a big pay off and bloated pension?
Are the people of iceland in control of there country and not just there to be milked dry by the fat cats looking out for themselfs?

Are the people of Iceland happy that the mess they found themselves in necessitated a $4.6 billion bailout (€3.6 billion) from the IMF and Nordic central banks, the equivalent of 43 per cent of its GDP?
Probably not.

Are the people of Iceland happy that its government had to pump ISK 385 billion (€2.36 billion) into its banks, the equivalent of 26 per cent of its GDP?
Probably not.

Are the people of Iceland happy that they twice voted in referendum to burn UK and Dutch governments who'd compensated their nationals who'd lost savings in Icelandic banks to the tune of €3.8 billion ?
Probably, yes.

Are the people of Iceland happy that they may end up paying this anyway since they're now being pursued through international courts?
Probably not.

Are the people of Iceland happy that their country has returned to growth?
Probably, yes.

Still not sure what Iceland has to do with an Irish property tax.

ninja 12

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere except RTE -

Link

The headline says " non Payment" but the article saye "alleged non-declaration "

On another note ,
I got my first letter from Louth CC telling me that I " may " be liable , and should register and let them know if I am indeed liable :rolleyes:

DoesNotCompute

ninja 12 wrote: »

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere except RTE -

Link

I posted it a few pages back. It's been picked up by a few different news organisations / websites:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mayo-county-council-issues-summonses-for-non-payment-of-household-charge-572705.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/first-household-charge-cases-go-to-court-3280392.html
http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/3425-councils-legal-blitz-on-household-charge-defaulters
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16455:countrys-first-household-charge-cases-appear-before-westport-court&catid=23:news&Itemid=46
http://www.build.ie/construction_news.asp?newsid=153028

ninja 12

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

I posted it a few pages back. It's been picked up by a few different news organisations / websites:

Oops

View

Ghandee wrote: »

Didn't even look at the cb's figures.

Well, before jumping in to criticise you might want to have a look at the actual figures, be they the Central Banks's figures on Bonds, the State's budget with its appalling deficit or your Local Authorities' lack of finance for the services you'd like them to provide.

Ghandee wrote: »

I pointed out that the ordinary home owner, middle-low earning tax payer are continuously being screwed to 'bridge this deficit' while our politicians and bankers fatten themselves with pay rises, pensions etc.

You did not/have not addressed this problem though.

Did I dispute this?

The average voter rushed to the polling booths and voted FOR these politicians when from '97 on they were giving themselves these pay rises. They also clamoured for lower taxes AND increased spending on government services in their locality thus pushing up total government spending.

Unfortunately though, this political "alchemy" doesn't work, does it? And voters aren't exactly out campaigning for the politicians to cut services to them (the voters), are they?

Our parliament - the Oireachtas - has made a democratic decision to have a HHC as they believe most people want to maintain their existing local government services.

You though aren't prepared to accept democratic decisions when they are ones you dislike, are you?

Hijpo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Are the people of Iceland happy that the mess they found themselves in necessitated a $4.6 billion bailout (€3.6 billion) from the IMF and Nordic central banks, the equivalent of 43 per cent of its GDP?
Probably not.

And? does this have a reflection on our billions in bailouts?

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Are the people of Iceland happy that its government had to pump ISK 385 billion (€2.36 billion) into its banks, the equivalent of 26 per cent of its GDP?
Probably not.

We pumped money into failed banks, the same banks who can now dip into bailouts to prop up the massive pensions for the people who are still on big salaries

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Are the people of Iceland happy that they twice voted in referendum to burn UK and Dutch governments who'd compensated their nationals who'd lost savings in Icelandic banks to the tune of €3.8 billion ?
Probably, yes.

I dont see any irish nationals being compensated for money they had no hand in gambling do you? If anything the banks that the nationals supposedly own are now increasing interest rate on them so they are infact paying more directly and indirectly to the bank

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Are the people of Iceland happy that they may end up paying this anyway since they're now being pursued through international courts?
Probably not.

Were there bonds garaunteed? ours were not. Im not saying the bondholders would not be paid back, but if they had to be then atleast wait until a time that the country can afford the billions

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Are the people of Iceland happy that their country has returned to growth?
Probably, yes.

happy days, unfortunatly the only figures growing here is unemployment rates, suicides, and crime. Conveniently none can be tied to the state the country is in.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Still not sure what Iceland has to do with an Irish property tax.

It has to do with why the property tax is being introduced. The broken system, the money being burned in the boilers of the gravy trains, the corrupt politicians etc etc etc.

Have you not witnessed any of this stuff?

dvpower

ninja 12 wrote: »

The headline says " non Payment" but the article saye "alleged non-declaration "

There are two separate offences - failure to declare and failure to pay.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

There are two separate offences - failure to declare and failure to pay.

I'm going to write back and tell them i'm dead.

Dead right.

CptMackey

Got the letter in the post this morning. Sent it back along with a letter saying that I'm not going to pay it ever.

dvpower

CptMackey wrote: »

Got the letter in the post this morning. Sent it back along with a letter saying that I'm not going to pay it ever.

At last - someone with the courage of their convictions.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

At last - someone with the courage of their convictions.

Yes. It must be galling to anyone who caved in.
I see the Govt is in trouble again after the challenge to the Referendum was won in the Supreme Court. They told more lies it seems and were found out yet again. You just can't believe this crowd, lies to get in and lies to stay in.

darkhorse

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes. It must be galling to anyone who caved in.
I see the Govt is in trouble again after the challenge to the Referendum was won in the Supreme Court. They told more lies it seems and were found out yet again. You just can't believe this crowd, lies to get in and lies to stay in.

It was probably Quinns family that did it. I cant see our govt. using public to their own advantage.:D

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes. It must be galling to anyone who caved in.

I said it before here a number of times that a much braver protest (and more effective one imo) would be a "Do Register, Don't Pay" protest, and CptMackey has come close to that by identifying himself to the council.

Its not galling at all - its refreshing.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

I said it before here a number of times that a much braver protest (and more effective one imo) would be a "Do Register, Don't Pay" protest, and CptMackey has come close to that by identifying himself to the council.

Its not galling at all - its refreshing.

After todays court findings.

The big problem the govt now face is if people believe them ref 'ring fencing' the funds, what the funds will be used for, etc etc etc.

Have you heard the saying, 'you can trust a thief, but you can't trust a liar'?

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

I said it before here a number of times that a much braver protest (and more effective one imo) would be a "Do Register, Don't Pay" protest, and CptMackey has come close to that by identifying himself to the council.

Its not galling at all - its refreshing.

Well if one person writing to them to tell them he's not paying is refreshing then some people must be in a bad way.
Is there a day when all 700 k + of us could actually call to tell them we're not paying? I would love to attend.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Well if one person writing to them to tell them he's not paying is refreshing then some people must be in a bad way.
Is there a day when all 700 k + of us could actually call to tell them we're not paying? I would love to attend.

If every person who didn't pay had the same courage as CptMackey then the tax would probably be defeated.
But most of you don't posess that courage.

"Don't register, run away"

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

If every person who didn't pay had the same courage as CptMackey then the tax would probably be defeated.
But most of you don't posess that courage.

"Don't register, run away"

Well we didn't run and pay as quickly as others and we have no intention of paying. I didn't see anyone running from anything. I believe we will stand up and defeat this unfair and unjust tax without doing anything at all. The simple "Don't register, don't pay" thing seems to be working well on it's own.
Why should anyone even bother to go in and tell them we're not paying?
Let them do their own work.

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

I said it before here a number of times that a much braver protest (and more effective one imo) would be a "Do Register, Don't Pay" protest, and CptMackey has come close to that by identifying himself to the council.

Its not galling at all - its refreshing.

Refreshing entrapment......... eh Cathrine Zeta....

Chips Lovell

Hijpo wrote: »

And? does this have a reflection on our billions in bailouts?

Their bailout was of a similar order of magnitude to ours.

Hijpo wrote: »

We pumped money into failed banks, the same banks who can now dip into bailouts to prop up the massive pensions for the people who are still on big salaries

And what do you think Iceland spent a lot of it's bailout money on? Yep, it's banks. And I presume you do know the reason why AIB had to put money into its pension fund?

Hijpo wrote: »

I dont see any irish nationals being compensated for money they had no hand in gambling do you? If anything the banks that the nationals supposedly own are now increasing interest rate on them so they are infact paying more directly and indirectly to the bank

Banks have two ways of righting the ship. Lowering costs and increasing income? Do you actually want state own banks to have unprofitable interest rates?

Hijpo wrote: »

Were there bonds garaunteed? ours were not. Im not saying the bondholders would not be paid back, but if they had to be then atleast wait until a time that the country can afford the billions

They were savings, not bonds. UK and Netherlands said they were guaranteed. Iceland said not. The courts will now decide.


happy days, unfortunatly the only figures growing here is unemployment rates, suicides, and crime. Conveniently none can be tied to the state the country is in.

Hijpo wrote: »

It has to do with why the property tax is being introduced. The broken system, the money being burned in the boilers of the gravy trains, the corrupt politicians etc etc etc.

As I've said before, a property tax made sense before this mess we got ourselves into and it still makes sense. It's certainly a sight better than the previous property taxation regime we employed, which is one of the reasons we are where we are now.

tayto lover

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Their bailout was of a similar order of magnitude to ours.




And what do you think Iceland spent a lot of it's bailout money on? Yep, it's banks. And I presume you do know the reason why AIB had to put money into its pension fund?




Banks have two ways of righting the ship. Lowering costs and increasing income? Do you actually want state own banks to have unprofitable interest rates?




They were savings, not bonds. UK and Netherlands said they were guaranteed. Iceland said not. The courts will now decide.


happy days, unfortunatly the only figures growing here is unemployment rates, suicides, and crime. Conveniently none can be tied to the state the country is in.




As I've said before, a property tax made sense before this mess we got ourselves into and it still makes sense. It's certainly a sight better than the previous property taxation regime we employed, which is one of the reasons we are where we are now.

So again why not bring in a proper House Service Charge where we get the services for a decent charge. Water, bins, street cleaning etc for a proper and fair fee i.e. around 6/700 euro per annum. Price fixed for 5 years or so. Everybody happy. No attack on the family home.

Chips Lovell

So if we bundled the property tax, water charges and waste charges into one, you'd be happy to pay? How is one an "attack on the family home" and the other not?

dxhound2005

CptMackey wrote: »

Got the letter in the post this morning. Sent it back along with a letter saying that I'm not going to pay it ever.

Seeing as you are in it for the long haul you are probably aware of the complications which will arise down the line. Even if you avoid prosecution for non payment there is still the small matter of what happens when the title of your proprerty has to be transferred. I'm sure our friends in the legal profession will be happy to collect a little something for themselves along with everything that has to be paid to effect transfer.

http://kmccarthysolicitors.ie/2012/07/household-charge/

If you intend selling your house any prospective purchaser will require a Certificate of Discharge in respect of the Household Charge before purchasing the property and all outstanding charges and penalties will need to be paid before the Certificate will issue.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Seeing as you are in it for the long haul you are probably aware of the complications which will arise down the line. Even if you avoid prosecution for non payment there is still the small matter of what happens when the title of your proprerty has to be transferred. I'm sure our friends in the legal profession will be happy to collect a little something for themselves along with everything that has to be paid to effect transfer.

http://kmccarthysolicitors.ie/2012/07/household-charge/

If you intend selling your house any prospective purchaser will require a Certificate of Discharge in respect of the Household Charge before purchasing the property and all outstanding charges and penalties will need to be paid before the Certificate will issue.

So, unless you're selling a house (bearing in mind the negative equity we're all in ATM) you've really no need to worry about the charge?

And if a 'sale agreed' is reached, you could pay it then?

I need a hell of a better reason than that to register seeing as.

A, the ass has dropped out of the property market, and unless anyone is willing t to take a 1-150k hit on house sale v mortgage value. Selling ain't much of an issue.

Or

B, I bought my home to settle down and raise my family in, somewhere to ultimately die in.

'selling a house' won't be a concern to the hundreds of thousands of us living in a home.;)

tayto lover

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

So if we bundled the property tax, water charges and waste charges into one, you'd be happy to pay? How is one an "attack on the family home" and the other not?

It is not a Property Tax and it is providing services. Easy.
Not aimed at my home while providing nothing.
Just the same as paying the milkman on a Sat for the service he delivered throughout the week.