Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

dxhound2005

The details from Clare are very sparse. There are 32 councillors 15 FF 10 FG 1 Labour 1 Green and 5 Others. No word of how many for and against or who described the issue as a fiasco etc. Neither is there any information on how many of the 33,000 letters sent out in Clare were to dead people etc.

Without knowing more details it looks like a FF stunt. It won't help people in Clare or anywhere else who hasn't paid, their arrears will still continue to mount. The only way the HHC can go is by repeal in the Oireacthas and this has already been tried and failed.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The details from Clare are very sparse. There are 32 councillors 15 FF 10 FG 1 Labour 1 Green and 5 Others. No word of how many for and against or who described the issue as a fiasco etc. Neither is there any information on how many of the 33,000 letters sent out in Clare were to dead people etc.

Without knowing more details it looks like a FF stunt. It won't help people in Clare or anywhere else who hasn't paid, their arrears will still continue to mount. The only way the HHC can go is by repeal in the Oireacthas and this has already been tried and failed.

FF don't control the state media anymore dx.

Welcome to 2012 though.

Spiritual

I got a letter looking for me to pay the household tax off the County Council. I also received a letter the same day from my bank refusing to reduce the rate on my mortgage. If I cared either way I would be worried.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The details from Clare are very sparse. There are 32 councillors 15 FF 10 FG 1 Labour 1 Green and 5 Others. No word of how many for and against or who described the issue as a fiasco etc. Neither is there any information on how many of the 33,000 letters sent out in Clare were to dead people etc.

Without knowing more details it looks like a FF stunt. It won't help people in Clare or anywhere else who hasn't paid, their arrears will still continue to mount. The only way the HHC can go is by repeal in the Oireacthas and this has already been tried and failed.

The ship is swaying.........

County manager Tom Coughlan told elected members that he was unhappy with the upset caused to people, as well as the reputational damage and expense incurred by the Council. He stated that the letters had been sent on instruction of the Local Government Management Agency and on foot of data base information provided by them.

The Council passed separate motions stating that Clare County Council enter into no fresh correspondence until such time that an appropriate database has been put in place, and that the LGMA be disbanded.

http://www.clare.fm/node/18076

Le_Dieux

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The details from Clare are very sparse. There are 32 councillors 15 FF 10 FG 1 Labour 1 Green and 5 Others. No word of how many for and against or who described the issue as a fiasco etc. Neither is there any information on how many of the 33,000 letters sent out in Clare were to dead people etc.

Without knowing more details it looks like a FF stunt. It won't help people in Clare or anywhere else who hasn't paid, their arrears will still continue to mount. The only way the HHC can go is by repeal in the Oireacthas and this has already been tried and failed.

Since when have FF controlled RTE? The issue was by CCC. Does it matter who the spokesperson was?

Here's the message from the RTE website:

Clare Co Co pass motion demanding no more household charge letters
Updated: 18:40, Tuesday, 13 November 2012

Clare County Council has passed a motion that no further letters demanding payment of the household charge should be sent out by the council until such time as an appropriate database has been put in place.

The motion was passed following recent controversy, where many house-owners who had already paid the charge were sent letters reminding them to pay.
In other instances letters were addressed to individuals who are deceased.
The issue was described as a “fiasco” and a “public disgrace”.
A separate motion asking that the Local Government Management Agency - charged with collecting the charge - be disbanded was also passed.
A statement from Clare County Council said that the council was operating on instructions from the LGMA.
They added that the letters were sent based on a database compiled by the LGMA.
The council said householders who have queries or who have already paid the charge and received a letter should contact the Central Bureau at Lo Call 1890 357357.

Man, You lot just cannot accept reality.

The_Thing

Ghandee wrote: »

Pps number required, is it easy to make one up?

I'll have a look at mine and my colleagues and see if there's a pattern.

Have just Googled and found this - Personal Public Service Number

I once had a valid credit card in the name of Arch Stanton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlsiLOnWCoI

Slick50

The_Thing wrote: »

I once had a valid credit card in the name of Arch Stanton

If that's the same Arch Stanton, he sure owns a lot of properties. Fits the profile for "reminder" lettters perfectly too.

Ghandee wrote:

Pps number required, is it easy to make one up?

Why would they have to be any more real than the name and address, seven numbers and a letter. But that would probably be breaking some law.

Ghandee

The killer line from the linked article:

the council was operating on instructions from the LGMA.

Which county will follow suit (probably tomorrow)?

Game over FG/lab.

Vizzy

This will now go one way or another.
Firstly the HHC and the property tax are now abandoned( highly unlikely I feel)
or
Secondly the Councillors and the people of Clare (and any other Council that follows suit) are told that Government funding will be reduced by the amount due in HHC for 2013.
They then have the option to reverse their decision of today or reduce services or increase rates( which will now invoke the wrath of business as well as domestic property owners).

I'd say that there is a bit of a way to go yet!

mikom

Vizzy wrote: »

Secondly the Councillors and the people of Clare (and any other Council that follows suit) are told that Government funding will be reduced by the amount due in HHC for 2013.

The government already have done a fair bit of a back down on this already seeing as they threatened it earlier.

So that horse has bolted........

Compliance Rate: Impact
If Compliance Rate of 65% or above Achieved: No Reduction
If 60% - 65% Compliance Rate Achieved: Reduction of 0.5% of annual allocation
If < 60% Compliance Rate Achieved: Reduction of 1% of annual allocation

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/LocalGovernmentAdministration/News/MainBody,31185,en.htm

Vizzy

mikom wrote: »

The government already have done a fair bit of a back down on this already seeing as they threatened it earlier.

So that horse has bolted........

Big Phil reduced the Local Government fund in Aug/Sept 2012 .
The 65% compliance rate simply meant that there would be no further reduction in funding.

It can only be assumed that if no further effort is made by Clare CC to collect the outstanding charge then next year the people who have paid in 2012 will not pay in 2013.
The Local Government fund will be reduced by €160m countrywide for 2013 and Big Phil will not be too worried if the light outside Mrs Vizzy's house is not fixed because people did not pay HHC

Hijpo

Vizzy wrote: »

Big Phil reduced the Local Government fund in Aug/Sept 2012 .
The 65% compliance rate simply meant that there would be no further reduction in funding.

It can only be assumed that if no further effort is made by Clare CC to collect the outstanding charge then next year the people who have paid in 2012 will not pay in 2013.
The Local Government fund will be reduced by €160m countrywide for 2013 and Big Phil will not be too worried if the light outside Mrs Vizzy's house is not fixed because people did not pay HHC

Hes not to botherd about a whole lot except kilkenny and getting more money from anywhere he can.

Vizzy

I know that.
But his attitude is ;
" I have now given Councillors the power to raise local taxes to be spent locally.
Ye asked for power,I have now given it to ye,now use it or lose it"

Chips Lovell

You'd swear that responsibility for collection was being taken from them next year or something by the way they're acting.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You'd swear that responsibility for collection was being taken from them next year or something by the way they're acting.

I'd just swear that they've now conceded that trying to collect any such charge without the database is futile.

One council down........


I expect Donegal to do same by weekend.

Hijpo

Vizzy wrote: »

I know that.
But his attitude is ;
" I have now given Councillors the power to raise local taxes to be spent locally.
Ye asked for power,I have now given it to ye,now use it or lose it"

Where did he say that? i was of the understanding it was going into a big pot and the government decided what councils it was going to. By the way with there onslaught of services in the south east region it looks as though they are stripping waterford of any chance of contending for services with cork which will soon see Cork as being the main and only city in the south, i am of the opinion that these restructuring plans have a good chance being rolled out to make Dublin the main and only city in the east and Galway being the main and only city in the west. Who gets first dibs on your pot of funds then?? Probably the main cities of the three regions, whos left to feed on the scraps?? probably the towns furthest away from these cities.

This quote taken from an email sent by a waterford TD has reinforce my opinion of these changes.

A local government reform package is due to be announced by Minister Hogan in the very near future, this will be an overall plan for the country as a whole

So you can pay all your HHC, property taxes and water rates but at the end of the day unless you live in those cities there is still a realistic chance your town will fall away to ****.

Am Chile

Phil hogan on KCLR radio earlier-listen near of the end of the Interview where the subject of household charge is brought up-phil admits they need a complete accuarate database for the property tax.

http://kclr96fm.com/the-sue-nunn-show/minister-phil-hogan-st-lukes-hospital-and-household-charge-letters/

Ghandee

Am Chile wrote: »

Phil hogan on KCLR radio earlier-listen near of the end of the Interview where the subject of household charge is brought up-phil admits they need a complete accuarate database for the property tax.

http://kclr96fm.com/the-sue-nunn-show/minister-phil-hogan-st-lukes-hospital-and-household-charge-letters/

In hindsight Phil, you'd have been much better compiling one with the publics help, charging them €100 while putting numerous threats up to the people was a classic case of how not to ask the tax payers for help.


I hope this, and the property tax both fail miserably.


Been quiet on here since Clare Coco made their announcement (from one particular side) :pac:

Edit, the last 2/3 mins of that interview are comedy gold.

What a tool we got as minister for environment.

Listening to Phil, you'll NEVER be caught unless you're already on a property database.

Gombeen.

tayto lover

Barnardos have come out and said that the upcoming budget (if reports are accurate) will take a further 3 k euro out of the pockets of the average Irish family next year. That includes the Property Tax, Income tax hikes, V.A.T. rate rises etc.

If that is the case then many people will lose their homes, many young people will not be able to afford education and people will then react and we will have civil disobedience on a par with Greece for sure. Very few families can afford a 3k reduction.

The same people are being hit yet again while the rich get richer according to a Barnados spokesperson.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/working-families-face-3k-budget-mauling-213921.html

Dynacord

The Household Charge - wasn't this a one-off charge i.e. only charged in 2012? To be replaced in 2013 by a property tax, but a second household charge in 2013 doesn't arise?.

I listened to the KCLR interview, and cannot believe that such a person as Phil Hogan is actually a Government Minister. Co. Councillor perhaps, but a Minister?

jluv

Am Chile wrote: »

Phil hogan on KCLR radio earlier-listen near of the end of the Interview where the subject of household charge is brought up-phil admits they need a complete accuarate database for the property tax.

http://kclr96fm.com/the-sue-nunn-show/minister-phil-hogan-st-lukes-hospital-and-household-charge-letters/

My mother and I both recieved letters today. However it reads "Our records show that you have not paid" with the next saying "If however you have paid please call this number" If however you are exempt from paying please call this number.
I'm not calling anyone!
If I had paid or was exempt from paying then their records should already show that..Chancers..:)

Hijpo

tayto lover wrote: »

Barnardos have come out and said that the upcoming budget (if reports are accurate) will take a further 3 k euro out of the pockets of the average Irish family next year. That includes the Property Tax, Income tax hikes, V.A.T. rate rises etc.

If that is the case then many people will lose their homes, many young people will not be able to afford education and people will then react and we will have civil disobedience on a par with Greece for sure. Very few families can afford a 3k reduction.

The same people are being hit yet again while the rich get richer according to a Barnados spokesperson.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/working-families-face-3k-budget-mauling-213921.html

So thats 3k, according to lugha "we are overspending 10k per worker" wonder how they will make up the other 7k.

darkhorse

tayto lover wrote: »

Barnardos have come out and said that the upcoming budget (if reports are accurate) will take a further 3 k euro out of the pockets of the average Irish family next year. That includes the Property Tax, Income tax hikes, V.A.T. rate rises etc.

If that is the case then many people will lose their homes, many young people will not be able to afford education and people will then react and we will have civil disobedience on a par with Greece for sure. Very few families can afford a 3k reduction.

The same people are being hit yet again while the rich get richer according to a Barnados spokesperson.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/working-families-face-3k-budget-mauling-213921.html[/QUOTE]

Reading this story, one would be led to believe that government,s are against growth at any cost. But I am afraid it will be to the detriment of the majority of citizens in the E.U.

Ghandee

Taken from the examiner link Tayto posted.

a household charge of €100 per 0.25% of the value of the house — that would mean additional costs of €600 a year for a family home worth €240,000.

Hope the poor sods who fell for this scam and registered up their details now start to make a stand also.


This thread has become extremely one sided this past 24 hrs...... Have the pro side nothing to add?

darkhorse

Vizzy wrote: »

Big Phil will not be too worried if the light outside Mrs Vizzy's house is not fixed because people did not pay HHC

Except if some person that did pay the charge happened to be walking past Mrs Vizzy's house and had some sort of an accident, because of the lack of lighting.

Vizzy

darkhorse wrote: »

Except if some person that did pay the charge happened to be walking past Mrs Vizzy's house and had some sort of an accident, because of the lack of lighting.

Dead right !
Mrs Vizzy will sue and the cost of increased insurance will be borne by the Council.
If everyone paid then the Council might have put a light there and the accident would not have happened or if it did then Mrs Vizzy might not win the case.
My point being that Big Phil will simply reduce the LGF by the amount of the household charge which is due and it will be up to the Council to provide( or not provide) the services with reduced income.

Le_Dieux

Ghandee wrote: »

In hindsight Phil, you'd have been much better compiling one with the publics help, charging them €100 while putting numerous threats up to the people was a classic case of how not to ask the tax payers for help.


I hope this, and the property tax both fail miserably.


Been quiet on here since Clare Coco made their announcement (from one particular side) :pac:

Edit, the last 2/3 mins of that interview are comedy gold.

What a tool we got as minister for environment.

Listening to Phil, you'll NEVER be caught unless you're already on a property database.

Gombeen.

Seems the bould phil ain't the only gombeen in DE>

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/cormac-murphy-dail-descends-into-petty-backbiting-on-a-solemn-day-3294211.html

If truth be known, not one of them has a brain between their 2 ears. They should ALL hang their heads in shame! Every fcuking one of them!

Hijpo

Vizzy wrote: »

Dead right !
Mrs Vizzy will sue and the cost of increased insurance will be borne by the Council.
If everyone paid then the Council might have put a light there and the accident would not have happened or if it did then Mrs Vizzy might not win the case.
My point being that Big Phil will simply reduce the LGF by the amount of the household charge which is due and it will be up to the Council to provide( or not provide) the services with reduced income.

Ill just buy a torch for a few quid, certainly wont cost me 100 quid, including batterys.

YeatsCounty

My Dad got a letter earlier this week demanding payment including a fine......despite the fact that he paid before the deadline and they acknowledged receipt of the payment a few weeks ago. So even when you pay, they don't know if you've paid.

Idiots.

Am Chile

Final Reminder for all non payers-national anti susterity march to take place-a week from saturday on November 24th-I hope all non payers will be able to make the march in a weeks time.