Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Most vulnerable in our society? Weren't you the one advocating slashing the dole and making people in local authority housing pay propert tax?

If a 5% cut in the welfare budget is 'slashing' and expecting people in LA houses pay a bit towards the services that they avail of more than most, then yea, that's me.
Have you a problem with that?

K-9

gerryo777 wrote: »

At what cost though? The emigration of half a million people before this is over? the slashing and burning of services for the most vulnerable in our society?

If you can come up with some alternative way that avoids emigration and cuts to services stand for election.

gerryo777 wrote: »

I am a building contractor, a small building contractor. I never got too big, I wasn't a developer, I'm not getting bailed out by NAMA. I didn't pay myself mad money and I didn't get carried away.
I have been trading for almost 25 years and I'm pricing work now as keenly as I can in order to keep the 3 staff I kept on in work and not put them on the dole.
I do my best to keep my lads going, even though they get paid as much as I do and in some cases more.

I suppose to some pro-taxers on here, the problems of the country are all down to people like me, employment creators.

Thought it was construction. Was in it myself, 15 staff seems big enough, wouldn't say it was that small. Yeah employment creation is terrible stuff, nail on the head there gerry. We all want to see everybody on the dole, some of us thought taxes got cut too much, I'm sure you were suitably outraged when Income taxes and PRSI were cut, benefiting you.

Chips Lovell

I kinda would from someone that thinks having to pay an extra €100 in tax is some sort of national scandal.

D_murph

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I kinda would from someone that thinks having to pay an extra €100 in tax is some sort of national scandal.

Its not going to stay at €100 for long but I dont five a fck cos Im not paying whatever it is next year either.

gerryo777

K-9 wrote: »

If you can come up with some alternative way that avoids emigration and cuts to services stand for election.



Thought it was construction. Was in it myself, 15 staff seems big enough, wouldn't say it was that small. Yeah employment creation is terrible stuff, nail on the head there gerry. We all want to see everybody on the dole, some of us thought taxes got cut too much, I'm sure you were suitably outraged when Income taxes and PRSI were cut, benefiting you.

It wasn't benefiting me when the rates of pay were shooting through the roof.
Pardon the pun!
In one way the recession has been a good thing, at least tradesmen will now work for a reasonable rate.

BTW, I'm quite proud of what I do and I enjoy my job. I don't cut corners and I leave all my customers happy with the service I provide for them.
Tell you what though, if we had a properly functioning banking sector, I'd be employing more people.

darkhorse

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Stop paying senior bondholders and bankers pensions, tax de rich (none of which are relevant to why there's a deficit, of course)

I cant let this one go. Why would you think that its not relevant to the deficit. Go research the figures of people thats out of work. If all those people was still in work, do you think that the deficit would be as big as it is. Now, go and see can you find what the various banks input was to ruining the economy. When you research this, see can you see where there might be any anomalies.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Well I think we can all agree that those who protest solely against the HHC have the same moral integrity as those who rallied in support of Sean Quinn? Good.

I'm not being funny, lugha, but there is a thread pertaining to the Quinns, as you seem to be interested, I think it would benefit from your input.

darkhorse

Ghandee wrote: »

Welcome back gerry :pac:

Yeah, +1. I dont care if you are a man, we missed your posts.

darkhorse

gerryo777 wrote: »

We go back to the troika and we tell them that is is impossible, with no growth in our domestic economy, to reach the impossible targets regarding the 3% of GDP they have required of us.
We tell them that we have to invest in our country, to stimulate the economy.
We tell them that there is no point in flogging the horse to death.

I'll ask you again lugha, where do you think the last 4 years of austerity have got us? Are we in a better place? Are things improving?
Unless you work in the PS, unless your a TD or a cronie, unless your a banker, the resounding answer is no.

We seem to be a country that is taking some perverted pleasure in self flagellation.

Ya know, I was thinking the same thing a few times and I was nearly going to say it. You say it better anyway.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

Ok. So no more austerity. No more taxes and no more spending cuts.
Which means we need about €13,000,000,000 a year every year just to keep going.

Simple question. Who is going to lend us that money?

I know this pawn shop a couple of miles away from where I live. Now, before you dismiss it, I have an idea. Ya know that oil field that we read about a couple of days ago with a billion barrels in it. Just think about it. Ya see, ya dont have to go back and retrieve the items, thats the best about it. I bet you're wondering how I know about pawn shops, well, ya remember that fella shatter told us in the paper that time about hocking the wife's engagement ring if we were stuck.:pac::pac::pac:

darkhorse

Reloc8 wrote: »

Why does anyone think not paying the HHC will actually change anything ?

That's your protest ?

Yikes. The establishment must be quaking in their boots.

(for the record, I paid it. I'm lucky enough that I could afford it, and its the law, so there you go).

Good stuff outta you and may you always be able to afford in the future, no matter how much they put it up to.

darkhorse

K-9 wrote: »

1)Saying this tax is going to pay bankers pay and pensions is great spin. It isn't a criticism at all.

2)Even the Government thinks they are over paid.

3)Well bankers pay is there for all to see. There'll always some waste to point to, always,
4) you could be just a whinger who'll always find some excuse to avoid paying this tax or moan about any increase in taxes, there is plenty of them about and always was plenty of them.
5) They whinged a bit less when tax rates were cut and welfare and pay was going up.

1. Not spin, not criticism, the truth
2. Could you tell me when the government came to this conclusion.
3. Bankers pay and some waste to point to. Ya really should think about this one.
4. I would'nt class myself as such. As a matter of fact, I was someone that has always advocated on this forum for a need to have a progressive tax as opposed to a hhc/property tax ie, a rise in income tax, as I believe that a family home should not be taxed or charged further to what a home owner has to already pay out in a variant of charges(but sure you already know this about me, as you are on the forum longer than me.
5. I was here in the early eighties, I paid through the nose, and kept at least two people on welfare.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

How can you claim that the household charge isn't going to local authorities, when its clearly listed in their funding allocations and those counties that don't reach a certain level get their funding cut?

How can you claim that the money is going to banks when we haven't given them a cent since it wa introduced?

We've been through this already. Only this morning.

Who clearly lists it in their funding allocations, Vlad. Would that be the government or government departments? Dont believe a word they say.

You probably did'nt get the memo, but the banks instruct the government, not the other way around.

I understand you are a morning person, I hate mornings.

darkhorse

Reloc8 wrote: »

Why does anyone think not paying the HHC will actually change anything ?

That's your protest ?

Yikes. The establishment must be quaking in their boots.

(for the record, I paid it. I'm lucky enough that I could afford it, and its the law, so there you go).

I know I answered you already, but I cant help myself when I'm on a roll. You really should have Reloc8ed to this thread sooner.

darkhorse

lugha wrote: »

We are not now. I think it is about 13 billion atm. But we would be if we decided not to bother making any adjustments to our budget 4 years ago AND (big, big and) we somehow found some very, very rich people who were regularly dropped on their heads as children who were prepared to lend us that kind of money to continue on our merry way.

I know there is a lot to read here, but just humour me, lugha, and tell me in your opinion, whats wrong about this piece.

Column: 4 myths about austerity… busted · TheJournal.ie

darkhorse

tayto lover wrote: »

Enda actually drove in his brand new car to open the homeless shelter today. One bystander complimented him on the beauty and size of the car.
Enda said "well if you all work hard and do extra hours and pay your Property Taxes I can get an even bigger car next year".

That was the post La Resistance, tayto. Fair dues.:)

darkhorse

Slick50 wrote: »

I understand he is in jail for contempt of court (as we are told we will be if we fail to pay when/if ordered to), but it most certainly is related to his contracts, he would never have been in court in the first place only for them. He wanted to put as much cash/assets as possible beyond the reach of the state, rather than using them to offset his debts.

Fcuking A, Slick, I would do the same for my kids. I admire anyone who puts his family before anything and anyone.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I was responding to assertions HHC money was going to the banks.

I firmly adhere to these assertions, Vlad. Look, in case Mrs darkhorse comes to try turn off my computer again, see you tomorrow.:pac:

Le_Dieux

donalg1 wrote: »

Care to elaborate on that one hijpo or you just trolling again.

Seems to me the anti side bring nothing to the debate other than nonsense and when you ask them for alternatives to austerity they say they don't get paid enough to make those decisions. Tbh they all just seem to want to stick their heads in the sand and not actually add anything to the debate at all.

I mean the anti side go from one crazy claim to another and constantly move the goalposts to suit their arguments and stop themselves looking silly.

Now Donal, please highlight where this has been said, will You? I am part of that .Brigade. but do not EVER recall making such a statement, nor reading it by anyone else either.

K-9

darkhorse wrote: »

I know there is a lot to read here, but just humour me, lugha, and tell me in your opinion, whats wrong about this piece.

Column: 4 myths about austerity… busted · TheJournal.ie

They're arguing for tax increases so pay your charge then!

Bullseye1

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I kinda would from someone that thinks having to pay an extra €100 in tax is some sort of national scandal.

You believe the property tax will be €100 next year? Good luck with that.

Bullseye1

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Aaaaand the goalposts move again....

The money borrowed to bail out the banks will be paid not only by our genration but the ones to follow. If you believe that non of the money to be collected for the new property tax will not end up in the general taxation bowl, employed to pay off our national debt then your naive.

donalg1

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Now Donal, please highlight where this has been said, will You? I am part of that .Brigade. but do not EVER recall making such a statement, nor reading it by anyone else either.

Here you go, the full post can be found here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81866133&postcount=1553

Ghandee wrote: »

I'm not getting paid several hundred thousand euro to do an inept politicians job for him.

gerryo777

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The money borrowed to bail out the banks will be paid not only by our genration but the ones to follow. If you believe that non of the money to be collected for the new property tax will not end up in the general taxation bowl, employed to pay off our national debt then your naive.

It all goes to the general taxation bowl.

The pro-taxers haven't got the ability to see that. The LGMA is just another quango, jobs/promotions for a few more PS leeches.

Even if they did collect the full €160 million in a HHC, the LA funding has been and will be cut by far more than that.

It's all BS & lies.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

Here you go, the full post can be found here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81866133&postcount=1553

But you said

Seems to me the anti side bring nothing to the debate other than nonsense and when you ask them for alternatives to austerity they say they don't get paid enough to make those decisions.

Which would be classed as a generalisation covering everyone against the HHC. So if you can find one post from everyone against the HHC that states "i dont get paid enough....." your credibility might go up a notch to 0.01

Ghandee

'it's only €100' they say.

Tell that to these folk.

Householders opting to have power cut off By Seán McCárthaigh Thursday, November 22, 2012 Householders with large arrears on electricity bills are opting to be dis-connected rather than have pre-paid meters installed. The chairman of the Commission for Energy Regulation, Dermot Nolan, said he was surprised that threequarters of those in serious arrears were opting to be switched off rather than falling into further debt.

He told the Oireachtas Committee on Transport and Communications that 5,000 residential electricity customers had been disconnected in the first quarter of 2012, and 1,600 customers had their gas supply cut off.

However, Mr Nolan said the number of disconnections would fall during the second quarter of 2012.

He said about 10% of all electricity and gas customers were struggling to pay utility bills, representing approximately 200,000 electricity customers and 62,800 gas customers.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/householders-opting-to-have-power-cut-off-214727.html

As long as bankers pensions/TD's salaries and PS overspending isnt affected, it's all ok though.

gerryo777

Ghandee wrote: »

'it's only €100' they say.

Tell that to these folk.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/householders-opting-to-have-power-cut-off-214727.html

As long as bankers pensions/TD's salaries and PS overspending isnt affected, it's all ok though.

Now G, don't you know the pro-taxers will tell you one has nothing to do with the other.
It's hard for pro-taxers to see a bigger picture.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

But you said
Which would be classed as a generalisation covering everyone against the HHC. So if you can find one post from everyone against the HHC that states "i dont get paid enough....." your credibility might go up a notch to 0.01

Ha well there is a surprise now someone on the anti spinning and moving the goalposts. Some things never change.

LD asked me to show them a post where someone said that and I did very simple really I did however know that someone would be back disputing the indisputable fact.

And how can someone find one post from everyone? I dont think that is possible, but maybe you know more about the technical side of forums than me. :rolleyes:

gerryo777

It's hard to make sense out of some of the pro-taxers sentences these days.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

Ha well there is a surprise now someone on the anti spinning and moving the goalposts. Some things never change.

LD asked me to show them a post where someone said that and I did very simple really I did however know that someone would be back disputing the indisputable fact.

And how can someone find one post from everyone? I dont think that is possible, but maybe you know more about the technical side of forums than me. :rolleyes:

You pretty much said the entire anti HHC side, then copied a post from one person, that doesnt come anywhere near proving your claim.

This forum, like every other forum has a search function, you know where you type in a word or series of words and it does the work for you? :rolleyes:

back to 0.00 you go