Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

bgrizzley

lugha wrote: »

There is no single measure that the government could take that alone would have much impact on our deficit. But cumulatively, they do have an effect. And the property tax will be bringing in quite a bit more that 160 million.

if it makes it past its first year, bearing in mind that the present government are the only ones who want this(and then only one half of them). It hasnt even brought in close to 160 million(or wont!). Plus in year 2 the reality is going to start hitting home for the people who paid that its going to cost a damn sight more than the half pint a week registration fee. how many of them will take heart from the 700k who have two fingered this and just wont stump up?
and renters? rents will have gone up this year for the HHC, up again next year in mutliples for the property tax.
the deck is stacked against against the government now, they are just too stupid/arrogant to fold. of course that game is easy when you are playing with someone else money.

lugha wrote: »

I would say it is about time everyone faced reality. And the reality is that it makes almost no difference who is in government.

As a rule i'd agree. but when it comes to the HHC, it makes all the difference (there is only one party in favour of this, and all the rest of them want their grubby mitts on some power.)

lugha wrote: »

There is little sense in complaining about how the government is tackling our problems unless you can propose a better way. And apart from minor tweaking of detail, there isn’t really an alternative that avoids the need for austere measures.

i'm not arguing against austerity. i can take all the austerity i am handed and ask for seconds.
As for better way, remove this tax and take it from my income. (same thing to me) take E2pw off everyone who owns a house on SW/Pension (same thing to them). the only difference is that we wont be paying rent on our already paid for homes and your governement wont have any implied threat on the roof over or heads.
And before you say the rich will get off scot free, whats new there?
let them off to fcuk, we subsidise them anyway with the sweat off our backs.

gerryo777

gurramok wrote: »

You're anti-property tax as we know. You support landlords passing the tax onto the tenants rather than stand up to the tax, you only oppose it when it suits you.

If they're going to bring in a property tax to raise money to pay for local services then I believe everyone should pay, renters and owners.
It'll be interesting if renters are brought into the equation come budget day, to see the reaction then.
Renters should be up in arms about a property tax because it's only a matter of time before they'll have to pay it too. Mark these words.

Chips Lovell

It's not like renters don't pay for local authority services, it's a case that property owners are now being asked to pay proportionally more.

gerryo777

gurramok wrote: »

Nope, Gerry supports the landlords passing of the tax onto tenants, no objection whatsoever in said thread.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056809208 . Follow the thread from the start to get an idea of the discussion.

As well as the posts http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...&postcount=105 , we have http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81827942&postcount=137 , there are also thanks submitted by Gerry to posters who support passing the tax onto the tenants.(screenshots saved in case they are unthanked )

By the way the Irish property tax is an ownership tax. Tenants will get an occupancy tax within the next 2 years. If Gerry was sticking to his principles, he would urge the landlord to simply not pay the tax but oh no, there is unequivocal support of passing the cost of the tax onto another section of society.

Jesus, that's getting a bit freaky now. It's like having a stalker.

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I didn't say that taxpayer wasn't bailing out AIB. I said the HHC wasn't being used to bail out AIB.

Total disingenuous BS as well you know.

Ghandee

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's not like renters don't pay for local authority services, it's a case that property owners are now being asked to pay proportionally more.

Why though?

Do we use these services proportionally more, than non property owners?

Chips Lovell

No, but we have an investment in the area. The value of our property is affected by the quality of services available to it. A tenant when they move on gains nothing. In a similar way, businesses are charged rates.

gerryo777

lugha wrote: »

This particular sub-discussion was about austerity and not the HHC in particular. And I asked the question of those who support this campaign against austerity on Saturday, where would we get the 13 billion a year we need if we decide not to pursue spending cuts or raise taxes.

Ghandee responded by saying he wasn’t get paid enough (in other words, he doesn’t know). Nobody else answered, which is itself an answer.
Several posters did offer opinions on how austerity does not work. Which is super! But alas has no bearing on the question asked. So once again lads, here in its splendid simplicity is the question.

If we abandon austere measures, who will lend us the 13 billion a year?

Any takers?

You answer a question. Where has austerity got us? See much improvement in our economy, do you?

Chips Lovell

In fairness, we aren't doing too badly. Bond yields were over 15 per cent last year and are down to less than five per cent now.

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's not like renters don't pay for local authority services, it's a case that property owners are now being asked to pay proportionally more.

Oh yea,€30 a week for a LA house and that includes upgrading and maintenance.
Yep, LA tenants are paying their way ok. LOL.

Chips Lovell

Everyone pays income tax.

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

In fairness, we aren't doing too badly. Bond yields were over 15 per cent last year and are down to less than five per cent now.

Your serious about your arguments, aren't you?
I dispair.
Brainwashing on a massive scale.

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Everyone pays income tax.

Your going to tell us now that people on the dole pay income tax, aren't you?

Chips Lovell

I am actually. Tax receipts are up. Unemployment is still high, but at least has stabilised. GDP growth is sluggish, but at least we're no longer contracting. So yeah, it's improving. We've still a long way to go, but its a damn sight better than where we were, when there was a genuine concern the country would go bust.

Chips Lovell

There's a new argument for you actually. You can say your aren't going to pay any property taxes until everyone on the scratcher pays income tax.

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I am actually. Tax receipts are up. Unemployment is still high, but at least has stabilised. GDP growth is sluggish, but at least we're no longer contracting. So yeah, it's improving. We've still a long way to go, but its a damn sight better than where we were, when there was a genuine concern the country would go bust.

Would you like to explain to us thicko's how someone on the dole pays 'income tax'?
Really.....

Vizzy

gerryo777 wrote: »

Oh yea,€30 a week for a LA house and that includes upgrading and maintenance.
Yep, LA tenants are paying their way ok. LOL.

^^^^^^^^^

Tender too high for that gerry ??

Thats a pity

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

There's a new argument for you actually. You can say your aren't going to pay any property taxes until everyone on the scratcher pays income tax.

Your the one saying people on the dole pay income tax, not me.
Your posts are getting ridiculous now so I'll leave you to it.

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^

Tender too high for that gerry ??

Thats a pity

It's getting surreal on here now!

Chips Lovell

gerryo777 wrote: »

Would you like to explain to us thicko's how someone on the dole pays 'income tax'?
Really.....

You probably understood what I meant, but just to satisfy you, every working person pays income tax.

Do you think people on the dole should pay for the health service or their kids education and so on? Or is it just local authority services?

gerryo777

Anyway, off out now for a slap up meal with the family to celebrate my eldest son's graduation from college. College that I paid for, that he didn't get one single grant for.
I daresay I'll spend a couple of HHC's on it.
Enjoy the parallel universe you pro taxers live in.

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You probably understood what I meant, but just to satisfy you, every working person pays income tax.

Do you think people on the dole should pay for the health service or their kids education and so on? Or is it just local authority services?

I'll just refer you to my question, post 1725 and your answer, the first 7 words of post 1726. That is all!

gerryo777

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I am actually. Tax receipts are up.

Here it is.

Buford Tannen

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

In fairness, we aren't doing too badly. Bond yields were over 15 per cent last year and are down to less than five per cent now.

Job guarantee,increments,pension,allowances and early retirement with lump sum payouts yeah we aren't doing to bad,the rest of us though............

Chips Lovell

Yes Gerry. That post was obviously in response to your query about if people on the dole pay income tax. It could never have been in response to your question on if I was serious about the economy improving somewhat.

Vizzy

gerryo777 wrote: »

It's getting surreal on here now!

Why so ?

It was only this morning you were telling us you were a small building contractor

BTW is a small building contractor the same as a small farmer ?

lugha

Hijpo wrote: »

what has spending increased on since 2005? Is it all down to health, education and tax reductions?

What has that got to do with who might lend us 13 billion if we abandon austerity?

gerryo777 wrote: »

You answer a question. Where has austerity got us? See much improvement in our economy, do you?

The question of what the impact of austerity was, is academic. It is only worth considering if we have a choice between austere measures or no austere measures.

But we don’t. The choice is between severe austere measures (i.e. removing 3 billion from the economy in the next budget) or austerity on an Armageddon scale (removing 13 billion from the economy).

Unless anyone can answer my question and say who would lend to us if we abandon our current course? But of course nobody would. We have our current lenders and a possible return to the markets only because we are attempting to deal with our deficit.

Nobody in their right mind would lend money to anyone (state or individual) who was spending more than they took in, and felt no obligation to try and put that right.

Le_Dieux

donalg1 wrote: »

Here you go, the full post can be found here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81866133&postcount=1553

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but am leaning to the 'No BRIGADE'. So, You are generalising, which is a no-brainer as far as I am concerned.

gurramok

gerryo777 wrote: »

Jesus, that's getting a bit freaky now. It's like having a stalker.

Hypocrisy exposed. You've no problem with the property tax as long as you can pass it on to some poor joe soap renting from you.

donalg1

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but am leaning to the 'No BRIGADE'. So, You are generalising, which is a no-brainer as far as I am concerned.

You asked me to show you where it was said and I did or are you denying it was said by someone on the anti side.