Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Maggie 2

Ghandee wrote: »

Its four times bigger than your initial claim.

You haven't a clue what you're on about half the time on this thread. Make crazy accusations and assumptions without backing anything up, then disappear again for weeks at a time.

I did update my initial figure by 10,000. As I said, a poor turnout! If people were that bothered, they'd have been there in their Hundreds of thousands. The majority of people are just getting on with life. They know things will get better. Enjoy the dinner. Glad to see you can afford to eat out AND go shopping.

tayto lover

Maggie 2 wrote: »

Still a poor turnout.

You sound bitter.
Dyed in the wool obviously.

lugha

bgrizzley wrote: »

how many turned out for the ProTax march?

We're following the lead of the 600K anti-HHC gang and protesting by sitting at home doing nothing. :pac:

Bruthal

Maggie 2 wrote: »

njoy the dinner. Glad to see you can afford to eat out AND go shopping.

Can we take it that you cant afford to eat out then? Or go shopping?

bgrizzley

lugha wrote: »

We're following the lead of the 600K anti-HHC gang and protesting by sitting at home doing nothing. :pac:

should be a roaring success then;)

Maggie 2

robbie7730 wrote: »

Can we take it that you cant afford to eat out then? Or go shopping?

Not both in the same week! Eating out is a luxury I can't afford, I'm afraid.

lugha

bgrizzley wrote: »

should be a roaring success then;)

I'm waving my "kiss tax me, I'm Irish" placard as I type.

bgrizzley

Maggie 2 wrote: »

Not both in the same week! Eating out is a luxury I can't afford, I'm afraid.

at least you have the satisfaction of knowing some bondholder is having a nice bit of lobster somewhere with your E100...

Maggie 2

bgrizzley wrote: »

at least you have the satisfaction of knowing some bondholder is having a nice bit of lobster somewhere with your E100...

My satisfaction comes from living within my means and paying my way.

Bruthal

Maggie 2 wrote: »

Not both in the same week! Eating out is a luxury I can't afford, I'm afraid.

Well your payments will ensure someone else will be able to.

tayto lover

Maggie 2 wrote: »

My satisfaction comes from living within my means and paying my way.

You'll be much happier when you're starving so.

bgrizzley

Maggie 2 wrote: »

My satisfaction comes from living within my means and paying my way.

always a wise move, unlike the 700k homeowners in Ireland who are currently lighting Havanas with a E100 note:rolleyes:

Vizzy

Ghandee wrote: »

There's between 20-30,000 here easily.

Any sign of Le Dieux ?

The "no side" must be extremely dissapointed with such a low turnout.
Even if you take the 30,000 figure as official,then that equates to only about 5% of the reputed 600,000 households that haven't paid.
Plus the 5% also includes people who turned up today to protest against Austerity,water charges etc.

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

Any sign of Le Dieux ?

The "no side" must be extremely dissapointed with such a low turnout.
Even if you take the 30,000 figure as official,then that equates to only about 5% of the reputed 600,000 households that haven't paid.
Plus the 5% also includes people who turned up today to protest against Austerity,water charges etc.

Do you go out and march for more taxes?

Vizzy

gerryo777 wrote: »

Do you go out and march for more taxes?

Why would I do something stupid like that ?
Were you there yourself ?

Maggie 2

Official figures now amended to 10,000

Chips Lovell

That's a disappointing turnout given the level of public feeling. There was way more people at the match.

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

Why would I do something stupid like that ?
Were you there yourself ?

Well, you come on here slagging off people who believe that this is one tax too far, so it would be fair to assume that you have no problem with more and more taxes being heaped on people.
Why don't you go out and protest that we're not being taxed enough?

Wasn't there, no.

gerryo777

Maggie 2 wrote: »

Official figures now amended to 10,000

Believing 'official' figures in Ireland? LMAO!!!

Vizzy

gerryo777 wrote: »

Well, you come on here slagging off people who believe that this is one tax too far, so it would be fair to assume that you have no problem with more and more taxes being heaped on people.
Why don't you go out and protest that we're not being taxed enough?

Wasn't there, no.

Naw gerry,don't particularly like the fact that I have to pay it but it is the law so I thought it would be pointless turning up today.
But hey,you must have been thinking the same.

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

Naw gerry,don't particularly like the fact that I have to pay it but it is the law so I thought it would be pointless turning up today.
But hey,you must have been thinking the same.

I wouldn't march behind a CAHWT or union banner, plus I had something else on earlier.
I make my own protest by not registering and not paying.

Vizzy

gerryo777 wrote: »

I wouldn't march behind a CAHWT or union banner, plus I had something else on earlier.
I make my own protest by not registering and not paying.

Now thats something we can agree on !

How many(seriously) of the anti-HHC brigade do you think turned up,30%-40% of the total ?

Ghandee

In under an hour RTE have had the follwing figures.

8000, which leaped to 18000, which leapt to 20,000 so, they almost trebled their own figures in less than an hour?:rolleyes:

Next they've updated the figure to 10,000 based on 'The Garda Helicopter' (must have done a head count did it?):pac:

Thats the standard of jopurnalism and reporting that my license fee gets me?

Take it from me, someone who was at the march. I would estimate there was somewhere in the region of 20,000-30,000 at the March, it took over an hour for the whole march to pass the GPO alone (never mind come back on itself)

On the way home again now, the news reports will make interesting viewing tonight.

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

Now thats something we can agree on !

How many(seriously) of the anti-HHC brigade do you think turned up,30%-40% of the total ?

Probably around that, but the HHC is only part of a bigger picture.

I wouldn't march behind the CAHWT because I actually do believe we should pay a charge for our water supply. It's a quantifiable service so the more you use, the more you should pay.
I wouldn't march behind a union banner because we have seen how the PS unions continue to hold the country to ransom and indeed are responsible for a lot of the ills of this country.

There's no way I can be accused of not wanting to pay my way (the HHC is a miserable €100 FFS).
I won't pay a property tax for a few reasons, one being that the money collected, no matter what they tell you, is not going directly to the LA's.
Another reason is that it is a tool being used by a cynical government to pitch one section of society against another.
Another reason is that by registering for it, you may as well hand them a blank cheque and allow them to fill in what they want.

That's 3 reasons, I could give you a heap more, a few on here reckon that's moving the goalposts but the fact is there's lots of reasons not to pay and fcuk all reasons to pay.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What period does your 200,000 figure cover and how many left to get work? The population has increased by over 1 million in the last 20 years (340,000, 8.2% between censuses of 2006 and 2011 alone) and is continuing to increase. Any analysis of unemployment rates would have to take this into account if you think the numbers leaving is relevant to the percentage.

Also a few years back when hundreds of thousands of workers from abroad were getting jobs here the unemployment rate was still 4%. So is the real rate 15% now? The numbers in work went up by something like 800,000 before falling back in the last few years. I always like to look at the positive side , probably 90% of those that want to work have a job and the numbers working in the economy have increased massively because of population increase.

Overall I don't think this indicates an economy on it's knees. In fact there was research published during the week showing one third of food bought is being thown away so things can't be that desperate. "Massive mortgage arrears" is a bit vague, the number in any sort of arrears is about 14% apparently and about one third of homes are owned mortgage free. This shouldn't impact greatly in general on homeowners abilitly to pay €100 HHC. I know you are using myriad (10,000) as a figure of speech but it is an indication of your propensity for exaggeration.


People are leaving and coming in as well.


http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasecensus2011profile6migrationanddiversity/

Non-Irish nationals living in Ireland

There were a total of 544,357 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland in April 2011, representing 199 different nations.

The growth in the number of non-Irish nationals has continued since 2006, albeit at a slower pace than earlier years. Total numbers increased by 124,624 over the five years to April 2011 which represents a rise of 30 per cent.

How much does it cost to keep a non national in comparison to an irish citizen who works and pays taxes?

gerryo777

Hijpo wrote: »

How much does it cost to keep a non national in comparison to an irish citizen who works and pays taxes?

Careful now!;) The PC brigade will be out.......

donalg1

I wouldve thought there would have been a bigger turnout than 10000 given the fact it was against austerity as a whole a lot of people just don't seem bothered. Maybe they share the same opinion as me and a couple of others here that protesting won't get anywhere and will just fall on deaf ears.

Although if 10000 marched every week it could make them take some notice but even at that those lads in govt are so far removed they are probably just laughing.

Slick50

lugha wrote: »

Goodness, how many metaphors (?) have you butchered in that one short sentence?

How many can you see?

lugha wrote: »

And the “contracts” argument is clearly daft. You didn’t specifically give your consent to, or sign a contract on, our laws against murder, theft, tax evasion, etc. Does that mean you are not bound by those laws either, if you think them unfair?

At least they were entering into an agreement on conditions that existed when they entered it. The Quinns were not making a stand in protest against a new law they don't agree with. According to Sean Jn. they have been wrongly convicted, and intend to clear their name's.

lugha wrote: »

If you take the view that individuals are justified in breaking a law that they think unfair (and we are not dealing with fundamental human rights matters, just ho-hum tax / money matters) then the only logical view you can take in relation to Sean Quinn is that you may disagree with him but that his actions are personally justified.

I do disagree with them, even if they did strip assets before the court order. They should have been honourable enough to clear their debts as far as possible, rather scampering off to hide as many assets as they could.

lugha wrote: »

But of course, none of you lads do. All of which reveal that their position is not “you can disregard a law you consider unfair”, rather it is “I can disregard a law I consider unfair”. Everybody else should abide by the rules.

This is a new law, one which I and many others disagree with. We are entitled to object and protest against it, and the most effective way to do that is to thwart it from the beginning and make it unworkable. (not as some have suggested here, "pay up and look unhappy")

lugha wrote: »

Well they are going to the wrong march then! It is quite clear that this is being flogged as a march against austerity.

And this tax is being introduced as an austerity measure, so?

lugha wrote: »

Ah this again. Presumably you are entirely unconcerned that a much greater tax demand is being levied against your income?

You presume wrong. But I would be much less concerned about income tax than a charge that is levied whether I can afford it or not. (we've done this already)

lugha wrote: »

Out of curiosity, why, if you think the government had a choice between upsetting a relatively small number of high earners and upsetting a much larger number of low to medium earners they would opt for the latter, given that their currency is votes?

Because they wouldn't be able to look their buddies in the eye down the clubhouse, they'd be taxing themselves. They can always think up a new raft of bullsh*t to feed the electorate come the next election. (sure only a fool would expect them to actually keep eletion promises)

I was at todays march too, and there was well over twenty thousand, but we get the same old propaganda bull.

gerryo777

donalg1 wrote: »

I wouldve thought there would have been a bigger turnout than 10000 given the fact it was against austerity as a whole a lot of people just don't seem bothered. Maybe they share the same opinion as me and a couple of others here that protesting won't get anywhere and will just fall on deaf ears.

Although if 10000 marched every week it could make them take some notice but even at that those lads in govt are so far removed they are probably just laughing.

It's a terrible indictment of the type of political system we have here if people feel that mass protests will have no effect.
Maybe it's best to hit them where it hurts by not registering and not paying this stupid divisive charge/tax.
Money seems to be the only language they understand....

donalg1

Only problem being that they won't care who does or doesn't pay they still get their ridiculous salaries allowances and other perks and even if they lose the next election their pensions will see them sorted for life. They will just cut the funding for services or a capital project so they don't have to take a hit themselves.