Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Le_Dieux

cazzak79 wrote: »

My parents are 82 and 76 they live in a farm house that's been in my dads family since 1800's it's not massive or anything don't think it's ever been valued
How are they going to value house?

I am certain they will think of a way. They need all the money they can lay their hands on so they can go off jaunting around the planet and charging their drinks to the taxpayer..You, me, and every one else here, including the 'pro-ers':rolleyes:

dvpower

cazzak79 wrote: »

My parents are 82 and 76 they live in a farm house that's been in my dads family since 1800's it's not massive or anything don't think it's ever been valued
How are they going to value house?

Try the property prices database for similar properties in a similar area or even try Daft or MyHome.
Or look at the home insurers rebuilding costs tables and adjust for the condition of the property and land valuation.

tayto lover

I'd say there'll be fierce long queues at the Council Offices to pay.
Some of the lads here seem to be looking forward to it so much they'll probably camp out overnight.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Try the property prices database for similar properties in a similar area or even try Daft or MyHome.
Or look at the home insurers rebuilding costs tables and adjust for the condition of the property and land valuation.

Homeowners have to do the donkey work for the imbeciles in Kildare street again?

Are you guys for real?

Le_Dieux

Ghandee wrote: »

Homeowners have to do the donkey work for the imbeciles in Kildare street again?

Are you guys for real?

Sure won't we all have to do it Gh? They want US to evaluate our property for them to charge us???

Are they for real, or what??????

Bishop_Donal

Seems like a genuinely fair proposal to me (if a little on the low side for the moment).

Don't think the queues will be too long next time as majority will pay at source. Hopefully it will apply to tenants this time (so as to make sure everyone pays their fair share towards the services upon which they depend).

If needs be, the NPPR could also be increased to some extent (although with PRSI to be applied on rental income that might suffice).

Critically important that Revenue are also empowered to match HHC payments to catch the 2012 evaders.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Homeowners have to do the donkey work for the imbeciles in Kildare street again?

Are you guys for real?

Some people want everything just handed to them.

If the state took on the task of doing the assessments itself, you guys would be complaining that you couldn't trust their assessments or that it was just a way of providing employment for property valuers.

Bishop_Donal

Looks like my prediction of 5th September 2012 is pretty close on one count anyway!!

Budget 2013 (i.e. Dec 2012) predictions:

Taxation measures (Eur1,250m):
- Household Property Tax (average Eur350 per house) = yield 500m
- Excise / Duties (petrol +10c pl; cigs +50c +15c a pint) = yield 250m
- Income Tax (reduce PAYE allowance by 250; pers allow / bands) = yield 500m

Expenditure measures (Eur2,300m):
- Health = Yield 700m
- Social Welfare = Yield 900m (possibly incl USC charge?)
- Education = Yield 300m
- Bits and pieces from wherever = Yield 400m

And the fight will be over:
- The Eur350 property tax.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Looks like my prediction of 5th September 2012 is pretty close on one count anyway!!

Budget 2013 (i.e. Dec 2012) predictions:

Taxation measures (Eur1,250m):
- Household Property Tax (average Eur350 per house) = yield 500m
- Excise / Duties (petrol +10c pl; cigs +50c +15c a pint) = yield 250m
- Income Tax (reduce PAYE allowance by 250; pers allow / bands) = yield 500m

Expenditure measures (Eur2,300m):
- Health = Yield 700m
- Social Welfare = Yield 900m (possibly incl USC charge?)
- Education = Yield 300m
- Bits and pieces from wherever = Yield 400m

And the fight will be over:
- The Eur350 property tax.

Congrats on that. You'll probably get a big kiss from Enda for being nearest

Le_Dieux

tayto lover wrote: »

Congrats on that. You'll probably get a big kiss from Enda for being nearest

On the 'taxation measures':

Can't understand the logic of upping the price of fuel again - though I do notice no mention of diesel. Upping that and inflation kicks in, leisure driving drops off, resulting in less VAT on fuel etc. On the fags? They will ( pardon the pun) kill the goose who laid the golden egg here. Imports will flood in, and also people will stop smoking, resulting ( AGAIN) in drop off in VAT intake. I don't drink ( much) so cannot really comment on that.

This bunch really have no idea of reality. AGAIN ( ignore this Lugha) I mention the bus....what's better a half filled bus at €5/ticket or a full bus at €4???

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Congrats on that. You'll probably get a big kiss from Enda for being nearest

Hopefully I'll get one from Happy Gilmore as well!!
This progress couldn't have been achieved without his brave support (despite the fact that I suspect there is more resistance in Labour to this proposal than there is in FG).

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Hopefully I'll get one from Happy Gilmore as well!!
This progress couldn't have been achieved without his brave support (despite the fact that I suspect there is more resistance in Labour to this proposal than there is in FG).

"It's either Frankfurt's way or Labour's way"

Bishop_Donal

Le_Dieux wrote: »

On the 'taxation measures':

Can't understand the logic of upping the price of fuel again - though I do notice no mention of diesel. Upping that and inflation kicks in, leisure driving drops off, resulting in less VAT on fuel etc. On the fags? They will ( pardon the pun) kill the goose who laid the golden egg here. Imports will flood in, and also people will stop smoking, resulting ( AGAIN) in drop off in VAT intake. I don't drink ( much) so cannot really comment on that.

This bunch really have no idea of reality. AGAIN ( ignore this Lugha) I mention the bus....what's better a half filled bus at €5/ticket or a full bus at €4???

Prob save multiples more on healthcare (both acute and chronic services) for every person you get off cigs than the amount forfeited in excise / VAT on the cigs they smoke.

C&E need to get real tough on black economy. Fines applied should bolster the public purse imo.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

"It's either Frankfurt's way or Labour's way"

And Labour's it is (as if it was Frankfurt's Social Welfare would be addressed properly for once and for all).

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

And Labour's it is (as if it was Frankfurt's Social Welfare would be addressed properly for once and for all).

"Not one more red cent" would you put into SW or Anglo.

dxhound2005

cazzak79 wrote: »

My parents are 82 and 76 they live in a farm house that's been in my dads family since 1800's it's not massive or anything don't think it's ever been valued
How are they going to value house?

It probably would have been valued for the purpose of the calculation of inheritance tax at some point. It certainly would have been valued for the purpose of the calculation of Domestic Rates up until 1977, your parents may remember that. Not relevant now of course.

I suppose the easiest way to self value a property would be for the owner to (honestly) assess the price they would expect to get if it went on the market. There is some guidance available now from actual prices achieved in the last couple of years.

http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/website/npsra/pprweb.nsf/PPR?OpenForm

Bullseye1

dvpower wrote: »

Run out of arguments? Try insults instead!

You will recall your post directed to me claimed I had a "warped" mind. Pot calling Kettle.

Again with the ?????. If must be your favourite key.

Bullseye1

dvpower wrote: »

Some people want everything just handed to them.

At last we agree. I'm assuming your referring to the government and or taxes LOL.

Am Chile

Just watched last nights protests at the dail via x case-where the protesters blocked the dail gates-but what if a good crowd went up and blocked the dail gates over the property tax-or if we started blockadeing tds inside the clinic offices-since they want to place a tax on our homes if we started to place pickets outside their homes.

dvpower

Bullseye1 wrote: »

You will recall your post directed to me claimed I had a "warped" mind.

It certainly did not. It claimed you were using warped logic.

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And you would be particularly naive to believe anyone who tells you that HHC will be defeated.

I live in hope.
By the way, could you tell me how much approx. would an average worker pay in universal social charge in a year in the UK?

3rdDegree

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It probably would have been valued for the purpose of the calculation of inheritance tax at some point. It certainly would have been valued for the purpose of the calculation of Domestic Rates up until 1977, your parents may remember that. Not relevant now of course.

I suppose the easiest way to self value a property would be for the owner to (honestly) assess the price they would expect to get if it went on the market. There is some guidance available now from actual prices achieved in the last couple of years.

http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/website/npsra/pprweb.nsf/PPR?OpenForm

Are you saying we are expected to get our own houses valued? I presume you'd need to get an estate agent to do it accurately. Or as you say, just guess, and risk the tax man coming after you years later if you undervalued it.

darkhorse

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Guess what Phil Hogan is?

The man that helped me make up my mind where I am going on holiday next year with my family. We are going to Sellafield, WooooHooooo.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

Landlords do have to pay the property tax.

They are liable, but they'll pass it on in the form of raised rent to the tenant, exept maybe in the case of LA tenants.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

Yes. Pretty much all of the 81 year old people I know pay income tax on their pension income.

Obviously, your 81 year old friends have income other than a DSP pension, thats why they are paying tax.

Hijpo

darkhorse wrote: »

Obviously, your 81 year old friends have income other than a DSP pension, thats why they are paying tax.

Maybe they are the kind who "retired" from a public sector job and got a cushy few hours in a library.

darkhorse

Hijpo wrote: »

So we shouldnt have a tax thats implemented in 10 EU states, but we should have a property tax because other countries in europe have it?

dvpower wrote: »

Why would you think that?

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one whose questions are always answered with another question.

darkhorse

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I would agree with Your post Ghandee, BUT I shudder what will a) replace the loss of income in the abolition of the PT/HHC ( because believe me, the bastards waiting in the wing WILL slap the ordinary guy in the street with some sort of 'tax') & b) While I can see a FF in govt. come the next election, I would be MOST uncomfortable if they were in 'bed' with SF. For me, I sincerely hope Róisín Shortall resigns from the party who stabbed Her repeatedly in the back and starts a new party.

My opinion on this, L.D., is, that if the banking debt is not sorted out in the next couple of years, and we keep having these austerity budgets, it wont matter who gets in to the next government, because we are going to end up as an extra state in germany(I doubt that they would want the burden).

darkhorse

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

And if it was Frankfurt's Social Welfare would be addressed properly for once and for all.

And maybe politicians pay and expenses, higher paid civil servants pay, various officials in most councils pay and expenses, quango's, senate, bankers pay and bonuses, etc etc. Yeah, Bish, it might not too bad having proper governance, but I fear its too late now, as the damage is largely done, and I'd say that this government will finish us off(I really hope they prove me wrong).

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

Maybe they are the kind who "retired" from a public sector job and got a cushy few hours in a library.

... or planned ahead and made provision for their retirement.